Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Chris Mason]

Ask the client if he is willing tho try the $120 experiment. If it doesn't
work, I'll give you $60 for the SMM.

On Sep 15, 2016 15:50, "Benn Kilburn"  wrote:

> A couple of wrenches have suggested the Generac SMM (link in email below)
> but a call to generac resulted in them saying they only test it with their
> own generators and cannot say if it will work properly and will not offer
> support if connected with generators other than Generac.
>
> Have any of you used this SMM with success with gens other than Generac?
>
> And to answer a few other suggestions ...the reason we need something like
> this is the layout of all the electrical equipment.
> At the end of the driveway is the pole with the transformer and
> meter/splitter combo.
> 15' away is the shed housing the generator and ATS. Then there is the
> underground feed to the house which if trenched would be about 350' to the
> house where the main panelboard is located along with the 2 SolarEdge
> inverters and the PV system.
> So we cannot reasonably interconnect btwn the ATS and the meter, hence the
> need for a way to shut down the inverters when the generator is running.
>
> The SMM that was suggested sounds great, but I don't want our client to be
> a guinea pig to see if it will work properly with a non-Generac generator.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Benn Kilburn
> SkyFire Energy Inc.
> 780-906-7807
>
> On Sep 8, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Matthew Sherald  wrote:
>
> Generac offers a Smart Management Module.
>
> http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/
> transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf
>
> I used one of these at a grid-tie job where the customer was
> simultaneously having a Generac unit installed.  The Generac installer
> turned me on to the device and it seemed to do the trick.  It was a similar
> situation where the PV and GT inverter were at an outbuilding far removed
> from the main panel at the house.
>
>
> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn 
> wrote:
>
>> Wrenches,
>> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
>> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>>
>> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the
>> feeders to the house are underground.
>> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
>> house electrical panelboard.
>>
>> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is
>> a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a
>> manual reset.
>>
>> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>>
>> Thanks,
>>
>> *Benn Kilburn *
>> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
>> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
>> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
>> [image: email]  [image: facebook]
>>  [image: twitter]
>>  [image: linkedin]
>> 
>>
>>
>> [image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]
>>
>> *WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.*
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Benn Kilburn]

A couple of wrenches have suggested the Generac SMM (link in email below) but a 
call to generac resulted in them saying they only test it with their own 
generators and cannot say if it will work properly and will not offer support 
if connected with generators other than Generac. 

Have any of you used this SMM with success with gens other than Generac?

And to answer a few other suggestions ...the reason we need something like this 
is the layout of all the electrical equipment. 
At the end of the driveway is the pole with the transformer and meter/splitter 
combo. 
15' away is the shed housing the generator and ATS. Then there is the 
underground feed to the house which if trenched would be about 350' to the 
house where the main panelboard is located along with the 2 SolarEdge inverters 
and the PV system. 
So we cannot reasonably interconnect btwn the ATS and the meter, hence the need 
for a way to shut down the inverters when the generator is running. 

The SMM that was suggested sounds great, but I don't want our client to be a 
guinea pig to see if it will work properly with a non-Generac generator. 

Thanks,

Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy Inc. 
780-906-7807

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 6:45 PM, Matthew Sherald  wrote:
> 
> Generac offers a Smart Management Module. 
> 
> http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf
> 
> I used one of these at a grid-tie job where the customer was simultaneously 
> having a Generac unit installed.  The Generac installer turned me on to the 
> device and it seemed to do the trick.  It was a similar situation where the 
> PV and GT inverter were at an outbuilding far removed from the main panel at 
> the house.
> 
> 
>> On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
>> Wrenches,
>> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system 
>> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>> 
>> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders 
>> to the house are underground.
>> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the 
>> house electrical panelboard.
>> 
>> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a 
>> power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual 
>> reset.
>> 
>> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>> 
>> Thanks,
>> 
>> Benn Kilburn 
>> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
>> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
>> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
>> 
>> 
>> WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.
>> 
>> ___
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> 
> 
> 
> -- 
> Matt Sherald
> PIMBY Energy, LLC
> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
> 304-704-5943
> 
> www.getpimby.blogspot.com
> www.getpimby.com
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Benn,

I assume the transfer switch is not over by the generator.  If that's the
case, there are typically many ways to do it utilizing a contactors that
senses the utility side of the transfer switch.  You can also use the
control signal that sends the signal to the generator to start.  That is
usually a 12V signal.

Good luck

On Fri, Sep 9, 2016 at 4:11 AM, Tump  wrote:

> Wire them to the utility side of the transfer switch, Auto restart and
> probably manufacture recommended method of connection when used in
> conjunction w/ gen set. T
>
> On Sep 8, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
>
> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
> to the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
> house electrical panelboard.
>
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is
> a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a
> manual reset.
>
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Benn Kilburn *
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> [image: email]  [image: facebook]
>  [image: twitter]
>  [image: linkedin]
> 
>
> [image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]
> *WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.*
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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-- 



Mac Lewis

*"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Tump]

Wire them to the utility side of the transfer switch, Auto restart and probably 
manufacture recommended method of connection when used in conjunction w/ gen 
set. T
> On Sep 8, 2016, at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:
> 
> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system that 
> has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
> 
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders to 
> the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the 
> house electrical panelboard.
> 
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a 
> power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual 
> reset.
> 
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Benn Kilburn 
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com 
>    
>    
>  
> 
> 
> 
> WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.
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> t...@swnl.net 
>   
>  www.SWNL.net 
> 
> Solarwinds Northernlights   
>Serving Mid Coast Maine & Northern California
>  207-832-7574   Cl. 610-517-8401  
> 
>   Blair "TUMP" May
>  MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   NABCEP"Certified PV Installer" 
>
>     MAINE'S CHARTER 
>   Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer"
> 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Matthew Sirum]

Greetings Benn,

There may be another option which would avoid extra controls/devices.
The point of interconnection of the inverter output circuits could be
a supply side connection; the inverter outputs could be combined and
interconnected between the service point/utility meter and the utility
supply connection to the automatic transfer switch.  This may be an
installation option to consider if allowed in the jurisdiction where
your project is located and if practical given the existing electrical
work and nature of the site/building.

Best regards,

MATT

Matthew Sirum
P.O. Box 1227
Greenfield, MA 01302-1227  USA
phone: +1.413.773.0611
email: matthewsi...@gmail.com


Date: Thu, 8 Sep 2016 11:00:09 -0600
From: Benn Kilburn <b...@skyfireenergy.com>
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

Wrenches,
We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied
system that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.

The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the
feeders to the house are underground. Inverters are located in the
house basement mechanial room along with the house electrical
panelboard.

We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there
is a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be
a manual reset.

What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?

Thanks,

*Benn Kilburn *
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 ? 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Gary Willett]

  
  
Benn:
What kind of generator? If a Generac, and depending on the
controller vintage, it may be possible to install their SMM (smart
management module) load shedding module which does not require
separate control wires. 

Down side is they're rated 50A for resistive loads and 40A for
inductive loads. If they work, one would be required for each
SE7600.   
http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf

Give Generac a call, or maybe a Wrench who sells/maintains Generacs
can comment on the suitability of this solution. I've used them for
load shedding, bot not for inverter shedding.
I believe one of the 8 settings will always lock out the unit on
  grid failure / genset operating, as opposed to be one of the 7
  total load based priorities.

Regards,
Gary Willett
Icarus Engineering LLC


On 9/8/16 6:17 PM, Benn Kilburn wrote:


  
  Hey Jerry,
  Yeah, hard wiring would require quite
a bit of trenching and wire. 
  I was hoping someone would be
familiar with a remote relay option or at least a manual reset
relay that would include some sort of indicator for when it has
shut off the inverters. 
  
  
  Earlier today I was considering what
you are suggesting. Seems like it should work. 
  Anyone care to poke some holes in
this theory?

Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy Inc. 
780-906-7807
  
  
On Sep 8, 2016, at 4:57 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>
wrote:

  
  

  
  
  
  Wrenches
  Does not sound like there is an option to hard wire a
shut down switch so here is an idea l have used. Program the
genny to run at 58 Hz. not yp this will keep the inverters
ftom starting up. None of the appliances will know but as
long as the inverter programming does not allow for 58 Hz
then it will work
  Jerry
  
  
  
Sent via the
  Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
  
  
  
   Original message 
  From: Benn Kilburn <b...@skyfireenergy.com> 
  Date:09/08/2016 7:00 AM (GMT-10:00) 
  To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
      Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter
        shut-down relay 
  
  
  
Wrenches,

We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US
  inverters in a grid-tied system that has a 15kw back-up
  generator on an auto transfer switch.
  

The generator is located in a shed about
  300' or more away and the feeders to the house are
  underground.

Inverters are located in the house basement
  mechanial room along with the house electrical panelboard.
  

We are looking for relay options to shut
  down the inverters when there is a power interruption,
  before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual
  reset.
  

What are some options you have seen/used
  for something like this?
  

Thanks,




  
Benn Kilburn 
CSA Certified Solar
  Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 – 121A Ave NW |
  Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F:
  888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com


  
WE HAVE
  MOVED! Please note our new address above.
  

  

  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Matthew Sherald]

Generac offers a Smart Management Module.

http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf

I used one of these at a grid-tie job where the customer was simultaneously
having a Generac unit installed.  The Generac installer turned me on to the
device and it seemed to do the trick.  It was a similar situation where the
PV and GT inverter were at an outbuilding far removed from the main panel
at the house.


On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
> to the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
> house electrical panelboard.
>
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is
> a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a
> manual reset.
>
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Benn Kilburn *
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> [image: email]  [image: facebook]
>  [image: twitter]
>  [image: linkedin]
> 
>
>
> [image: SkyFire Energy Logo_horizontal]
>
> *WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.*
>
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-- 
Matt Sherald
PIMBY Energy, LLC
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer®
304-704-5943

www.getpimby.blogspot.com
www.getpimby.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Chris Mason]

Generac Smart Management Module
http://gens.lccdn.com/GeneracCorporate/media/Library/content/all-products/transfer-switches/residential-transfer-switches/0L1500-B-SMM-Module.pdf
It will sense that the power is coming from a generator and open a
contactor. You can adapt that to disconnect your solar resource.

On Thu, Sep 8, 2016 at 1:00 PM, Benn Kilburn  wrote:

> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
> that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
>
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
> to the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
> house electrical panelboard.
>
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is
> a power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a
> manual reset.
>
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
>
> Thanks,
>
> *Benn Kilburn *
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> [image: email]  [image: facebook]
>  [image: twitter]
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>
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer™
Solar Design Engineer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

www.cometsolar.com 
264.235.5670
869.662.5670
Skype: netconcepts
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Benn Kilburn]

Hey Jerry,
Yeah, hard wiring would require quite a bit of trenching and wire. 
I was hoping someone would be familiar with a remote relay option or at least a 
manual reset relay that would include some sort of indicator for when it has 
shut off the inverters. 

Earlier today I was considering what you are suggesting. Seems like it should 
work. 
Anyone care to poke some holes in this theory?

Benn Kilburn
SkyFire Energy Inc. 
780-906-7807

> On Sep 8, 2016, at 4:57 PM, jerrysgarage01 <jerrysgarag...@gmail.com> wrote:
> 
> 
> Wrenches
> Does not sound like there is an option to hard wire a shut down switch so 
> here is an idea l have used. Program the genny to run at 58 Hz. not yp this 
> will keep the inverters ftom starting up. None of the appliances will know 
> but as long as the inverter programming does not allow for 58 Hz then it will 
> work
> Jerry
> 
> Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone
> 
> 
>  Original message 
> From: Benn Kilburn
> Date:09/08/2016 7:00 AM (GMT-10:00)
> To: RE-wrenches
> Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay
> 
> Wrenches,
> We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system that 
> has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.
> 
> The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders to 
> the house are underground.
> Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the 
> house electrical panelboard.
> 
> We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a 
> power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual 
> reset.
> 
> What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Benn Kilburn 
> CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
> 14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
> P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
> 
> 
> WE HAVE MOVED! Please note our new address above.
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[jerrysgarage01]

Wrenches
Does not sound like there is an option to hard wire a shut down switch so here 
is an idea l have used. Program the genny to run at 58 Hz. not yp this will 
keep the inverters ftom starting up. None of the appliances will know but as 
long as the inverter programming does not allow for 58 Hz then it will work
Jerry

Sent via the Samsung Galaxy S™ III, an AT 4G LTE smartphone

 Original message From: Benn Kilburn 
<b...@skyfireenergy.com> Date:09/08/2016  7:00 AM  (GMT-10:00) 
To: RE-wrenches <re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay 

Wrenches,
We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system that 
has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.

The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders to 
the house are underground.
Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the house 
electrical panelboard.

We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a 
power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual 
reset.

What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?

Thanks,

Benn Kilburn 
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com


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[RE-wrenches] Back-up generator/inverter shut-down relay

[Benn Kilburn]

Wrenches,
We are installing 2 SolarEdge SE7600A-US inverters in a grid-tied system
that has a 15kw back-up generator on an auto transfer switch.

The generator is located in a shed about 300' or more away and the feeders
to the house are underground.
Inverters are located in the house basement mechanial room along with the
house electrical panelboard.

We are looking for relay options to shut down the inverters when there is a
power interruption, before the generator kicks in.  This could be a manual
reset.

What are some options you have seen/used for something like this?

Thanks,

*Benn Kilburn *
CSA Certified Solar Photovoltaic Systems Electrician, SkyFire Energy Inc
14515 – 121A Ave NW | Edmonton, AB | T5L 2T2
P: 780-474-8992 | F: 888-405-5843 | www.skyfireenergy.com
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