Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Bryan Norkunas via RE-wrenches]

It was explained to me, the compounds Amphenol used in this large batch of 
connector housings were bad/incorrect.

We started seeing failures on these modules as quickly as 6 months of being in 
service.

Bryan Norkunas
PV-Cables




Get Outlook for Android<https://aka.ms/AAb9ysg>

From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of Jay 
via RE-wrenches 
Sent: Friday, November 10, 2023 7:39:43 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: Jay 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?

I’ve wondered what other variables are at work given that mostly these 
connectors work as they should.

I’d like to see them come with plugs covering the openings. This would keep 
dirt, salt air, moisture, etc  out until they are connected.

As to if there were lots of failures with SW modules then I wonder if whoever 
built the whips had poor quality control. Might be they were not seated 
properly or dirty or the crimp they used wasn’t calibrated correctly or they 
were stored in a salt environment creating corrosion or something like that.

I looked up the specs last night on the mc4 and it’s like 30+ amps depending on 
the wire, pretty impressive

Jay







On Nov 10, 2023, at 5:53 AM, Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:


Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this might 
be our only one.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:
I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced, were 
the majority of these roof mounts?
Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount, if 
that helped to minimize connector failure.

Christopher

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches 
mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org>> 
wrote:

Ray,

Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount system, 
3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully engaged MC4 
factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not passing current, 
melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new connectors.

My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by the 
bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken nuggets, 
etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing PVs with 
factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.  Installing 
in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often than most 
installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector possibly more 
of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've never seen any 
connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still "contained" stage .

Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to another, 
I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it UTX and 
Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite their claim.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:

I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the UTX.

Ray

On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like 
about the right timeframe.

<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
[X]
BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol 
connectors<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
pv-magazine-usa.com<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>


Brian

On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> 
wrote:



12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I just 
went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC connector 
(module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling the plastic on 
both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current; I didn't get a 
chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged in, so not an 
installation issue.

This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were Solarworld 
factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also means no 
mismatch of "MC4" connector type.

10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp, all are 
tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module current 
ratings increase.

Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:

Good luck trying to convince your customer that their 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

;
>>> 
>>>
>>> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.
>>> I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
>>> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
>>> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
>>> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
>>> in, so not an installation issue.
>>>
>>> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
>>> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
>>> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>>>
>>> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
>>> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
>>> current ratings increase.
>>>
>>> Ray Walters
>>> Remote Solar
>>> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>>
>>> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on
>>> fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>>>
>>> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get
>>> some on them…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>>>  *On Behalf Of *William
>>> Miller via RE-wrenches
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>>> 
>>> *Cc:* William Miller  
>>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
>>> interpretation/guidance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> George:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the
>>> same as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the
>>> manufactured assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that
>>> appliance.  By appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> William Miller
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
>>> Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
>>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
>>> *To:* RE-wrenches
>>> *Cc:* George McClellan
>>> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
>>> interpretation/guidance?
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Team;
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing
>>> the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar
>>> derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will
>>> exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the
>>> homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module
>>> cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger?  Any guidance or
>>> reference material would be greatly appreciated.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thx,
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
>>>
>>> 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
>>>
>>> Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
>>>
>>> www.recgroup.com | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>>
>>>
>>> This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any
>>> unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this
>>> message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please
>>> notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & 
>>> settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

f "MC4" connector type.  
  10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter
than ambient temp, all are tough on connectors.  I
predict more connector failures as module current
ratings increase.
  Ray Walters
Remote Solar
  
  On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn
Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
  
  





  Good luck trying to convince your
customer that their house caught on fire because of
a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility
for it…
  It may be an out to shift the
blame, but it only makes everybody get some on them…
   
  

  From: RE-wrenches 
On Behalf Of William Miller via
RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14
PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
            Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing
                for high current modules? NEC
    interpretation/guidance?

  
   
  George:
   
  Appliance
  manufacturers have their own requirements that are
  not the same as the NEC requirements.  As long as
  you are not modifying the manufactured assembly
  you are not responsible for compliance of that
  appliance.  By appliance, I mean the solar module,
  microinverter, etc.
   
  William
  Miller
   
  
Miller
Solar
17395
Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com
CA
Lic. 773985
 
  
   
  

  From:
  RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
  On Behalf Of George McClellan via
  RE-wrenches
  Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06
  AM
  To: RE-wrenches
  Cc: George McClellan
          Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for
              high current modules? NEC
  interpretation/guidance?

  
   
  Team;
   
  With the move to larger cells,
some modules have an Isc that is pushing the limits
of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or
125% solar derate*125% continuous load derate) to an
18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A that a 12
AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the homeruns
will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the
solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also
need to be larger?  Any guidance or reference
material would be greatly appreciated.
   
  Thx,
   
  
George McClellan | Senior
  Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 
330 James Way Ste
  150 | Pismo Beach, CA
  93449 | USA
Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 |
  Fax +1 805 357 6104 
www.recgroup.com | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com
 
  
   
  
  
  
  This message is private and confidential and may
  be privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination
  of the information or copying of this message is
  prohibited. If you have received this message in
  error, please notify us immediately and remove it
  from your system. Thank you.



___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: R

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Mine was a roof mount. We had very few SolarWorld projects. In fact, this
might be our only one.

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023, 8:10 AM Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced,
> were the majority of these roof mounts?
> Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount,
> if that helped to minimize connector failure.
>
> Christopher
>
> On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Ray,
>>
>> Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount
>> system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully
>> engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not
>> passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new
>> connectors.
>>
>> My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by
>> the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken
>> nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing
>> PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.
>> Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often
>> than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector
>> possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've
>> never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still
>> "contained" stage .
>>
>> Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to
>> another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it
>> UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite
>> their claim.
>>
>> Bill
>>
>> Feather River Solar Electric
>> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
>> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
>> Taylorsville, CA  95983
>> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
>> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
>> Solar Powered since 1982
>> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>>
>> On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the
>> UTX.
>>
>> Ray
>> On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
>>
>> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds
>> like about the right timeframe.
>>
>> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
>> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>> pv-magazine-usa.com
>> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>>
>> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>>
>>
>> Brian
>>
>> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>>  
>> wrote:
>>
>> 
>>
>> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I
>> just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
>> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
>> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
>> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
>> in, so not an installation issue.
>>
>> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
>> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
>> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>>
>> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
>> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
>> current ratings increase.
>>
>> Ray Walters
>> Remote Solar
>> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>>
>> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on
>> fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>>
>> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some
>> on them…
>>
>>
>>
>> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>>  *On Behalf Of *William
>> Miller via RE-wrenches
>> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
>> *To:* RE-wrenches 
>> 
>> *Cc:* William Miller  
>> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
>> interpretation/guidance?
>>
>>
>>
>> George:
>&g

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Chris Schaefer via RE-wrenches]

I'd be curious to know of the connector failures y'all have experienced,
were the majority of these roof mounts?
Just wondering if with better air flow like that of a pole/ground mount, if
that helped to minimize connector failure.

Christopher

On Fri, Nov 10, 2023 at 1:21 AM Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Ray,
>
> Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount
> system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully
> engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not
> passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new
> connectors.
>
> My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by
> the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken
> nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing
> PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 times.
> Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much more often
> than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, melted connector
> possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp or wood roof.  We've
> never seen any connectors fail beyond the melted/deformed but still
> "contained" stage .
>
> Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to
> another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was it
> UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors despite
> their claim.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> 4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
> 5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
> Taylorsville, CA  95983
> 530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
> CA. C10 Lic # 874049
> Solar Powered since 1982
> Home of the Sunny Side Up
>
> On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the
> UTX.
>
> Ray
> On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
>
> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like
> about the right timeframe.
>
> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
> pv-magazine-usa.com
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches
>  
> wrote:
>
> 
>
> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I
> just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
> in, so not an installation issue.
>
> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>
> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
> current ratings increase.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on fire
> because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>
> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some
> on them…
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>  *On Behalf Of *William Miller
> via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> 
> *Cc:* William Miller  
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
> interpretation/guidance?
>
>
>
> George:
>
>
>
> Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same
> as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured
> assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By
> appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
> *

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Bill Battagin via RE-wrenches]

Ray,

            Exactly the same thing happened for me on a ground mount 
system, 3500 feet elevation the the Sierras so open cooler air, fully 
engaged MC4 factory connectors PV to PV connectors with SW285's, not 
passing current, melted.  No attempt to contact SW just made up new 
connectors.


            My calculation is with anything that is no doubt made up by 
the bazillion with a machine (connectors, light bulbs, pencils, chicken 
nuggets, etc) you're going to get some duds.  In 20+ years of installing 
PVs with factory made-up connectors, I've only seen this happen 2-3 
times.  Installing in the mountains we no doubt use ground mount much 
more often than most installs in urban areas which would make a hot, 
melted connector possibly more of an issue a couple inches above a comp 
or wood roof.  We've never seen any connectors fail beyond the 
melted/deformed but still "contained" stage .


            Back when SW was first transitioning from one connector to 
another, I remember them saying they (I think it was UTX and MC or was 
it UTX and Amphenol?) were compatible.  We NEVER mixed connectors 
despite their claim.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
4291 Nelson St. (Shipping)
5575 Genesee Rd. (USPS, UPS)
Taylorsville, CA  95983
530-284-7849, 258-1641(cell)
CA. C10 Lic # 874049
Solar Powered since 1982
Home of the Sunny Side Up

On 11/9/2023 4:31 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches wrote:


I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not 
the UTX.


Ray

On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds 
like about the right timeframe.


BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors 
<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
pv-magazine-usa.com 
<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>


<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>


Brian

On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:




12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors 
might.  I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a 
bad series MC connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, 
deforming and bubbling the plastic on both sides of the connection. 
It was still passing current; I didn't get a chance to measure the 
volt drop.  It was completely plugged in, so not an installation issue.


This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were 
Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  
That also means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.


10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient 
temp, all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector 
failures as module current ratings increase.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:


Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught 
on fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no 
responsibility for it…


It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody 
get some on them…


*From:* RE-wrenches  *On 
Behalf Of *William Miller via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? 
NEC interpretation/guidance?


George:

Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not 
the same as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying 
the manufactured assembly you are not responsible for compliance of 
that appliance.  By appliance, I mean the solar module, 
microinverter, etc.


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
*George McClellan via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* George McClellan
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?


Team;

With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is 
pushing the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 
125% solar derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc 
module this will exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I 
understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), 
but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also need 
to be larger?  Any guidance or reference material would be greatly 
appreciated.


Thx,

George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC

330 James Way Ste 150| Pismo Beach, CA 93449| USA

Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104

www.recgroup.com <http://www.recgroup.com/> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

I'm trying to find a pic to post, but they were MC4 connectors, not the UTX.

Ray

On 11/9/2023 4:57 PM, Brian Mehalic wrote:
Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds 
like about the right timeframe.


BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors 
<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
pv-magazine-usa.com 
<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>


<https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>


Brian

On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:




12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors 
might.  I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a 
bad series MC connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, 
deforming and bubbling the plastic on both sides of the connection.  
It was still passing current; I didn't get a chance to measure the 
volt drop.  It was completely plugged in, so not an installation issue.


This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were 
Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  
That also means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.


10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient 
temp, all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures 
as module current ratings increase.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:


Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught 
on fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no 
responsibility for it…


It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get 
some on them…


*From:* RE-wrenches  *On 
Behalf Of *William Miller via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? 
NEC interpretation/guidance?


George:

Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the 
same as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the 
manufactured assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that 
appliance.  By appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of 
*George McClellan via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* George McClellan
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?


Team;

With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is 
pushing the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 
125% solar derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc 
module this will exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I 
understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), 
but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also need 
to be larger? Any guidance or reference material would be greatly 
appreciated.


Thx,

George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC

330 James Way Ste 150| Pismo Beach, CA 93449| USA

Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104

www.recgroup.com <http://www.recgroup.com/> | 
george.mcclel...@recgroup.com <mailto:shannon.k...@recgroup.com>





This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any 
unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of 
this message is prohibited. If you have received this message in 
error, please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. 
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There are two list archives fo

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Dave Tedeyan via RE-wrenches]

Fascinating. I emailed the list a little while back asking if anyone knew
of a way to make a warranty claim with Solarworld. We had a system with 36
of these panels, and basically every module to module connector was crispy
and deformed as Ray mentioned. I never was successful in getting in touch
with Solarworld, but we did go and replace the module connectors with MC4
on every module.

Ray, I am curious whether you were able to get any help from SolarWorld, or
whether you had to take it upon yourself to fix it.
Cheers,
Dave

On Thu, Nov 9, 2023 at 6:58 PM Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like
> about the right timeframe.
>
> BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectors
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
> pv-magazine-usa.com
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>
> <https://pv-magazine-usa.com/2017/03/29/solarworld-recalls-amphenol-connectors-sold-with-pv-modules/>
>
>
> Brian
>
> On Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
>
> 12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  I
> just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series MC
> connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and bubbling
> the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still passing current;
> I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged
> in, so not an installation issue.
>
> This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were
> Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That also
> means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.
>
> 10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp,
> all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as module
> current ratings increase.
>
> Ray Walters
> Remote Solar
> On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:
>
> Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on fire
> because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
>
> It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some
> on them…
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches 
>  *On Behalf Of *William Miller
> via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
> *To:* RE-wrenches 
> 
> *Cc:* William Miller  
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
> interpretation/guidance?
>
>
>
> George:
>
>
>
> Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same
> as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured
> assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By
> appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
> *Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
> *To:* RE-wrenches
> *Cc:* George McClellan
> *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
> interpretation/guidance?
>
>
>
> Team;
>
>
>
> With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing
> the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar
> derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will
> exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the
> homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module
> cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger?  Any guidance or
> reference material would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thx,
>
>
>
> George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
>
> 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
>
> Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
>
> www.recgroup.com | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com
> 
>
>
>
>
> --
>
>
> This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any
> unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this
> message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please
> notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.
>
&

Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Brian Mehalic via RE-wrenches]

Are they the Amohenol UTX connectors? SW had a recall on them, sounds like about the right timeframe. BREAKING: SolarWorld recalls PV modules with Amphenol connectorspv-magazine-usa.comBrianOn Nov 9, 2023, at 4:47 PM, Ray Walters via RE-wrenches  wrote:

  

  
  
12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors
  might.  I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had
  a bad series MC connector (module to module).  It got quite
  crispy, deforming and bubbling the plastic on both sides of the
  connection.  It was still passing current; I didn't get a chance
  to measure the volt drop.  It was completely plugged in, so not an
  installation issue.  
This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these
  were Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model
  modules.  That also means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.  
10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient
  temp, all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector
  failures as module current ratings increase.
Ray Walters
  Remote Solar

On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via
  RE-wrenches wrote:


  
  
  
  
  
Good luck trying to convince your customer
  that their house caught on fire because of a manufacturers
  flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…
It may be an out to shift the blame, but it
  only makes everybody get some on them…
 

  
From: RE-wrenches
   On
Behalf Of William Miller via RE-wrenches
  Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
  To: RE-wrenches
  
  Cc: William Miller 
  Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high
      current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?
  

 
George:
 
Appliance
manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the
same as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not
modifying the manufactured assembly you are not responsible
for compliance of that appliance.  By appliance, I mean the
solar module, microinverter, etc.
 
William
Miller
 

  Miller
  Solar
  17395
  Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
  805-438-5600
  www.millersolar.com
  CA
  Lic. 773985
   

 

  
From:
RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]
On Behalf Of George McClellan via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: George McClellan
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high
        current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?
  

 
Team;
 
With the move to larger cells, some modules
  have an Isc that is pushing the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I
  apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar derate*125% continuous
  load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A
  that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the homeruns
  will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module
  cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger?  Any
  guidance or reference material would be greatly appreciated.
 
Thx,
 

  George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales
Manager | REC Americas LLC 
  330
James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA
93449 | USA
  Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805
357 6104 
  www.recgroup.com
| george.mcclel...@recgroup.com
   

 



This message is private and confidential and may be
privileged. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of the
information or copying of this message is prohibited. If you
have received this message in error, please notify us
immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.
  
  
  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Ray Walters via RE-wrenches]

12 Ga wire is not going to catch on fire, but the MC connectors might.  
I just went back on a 7 yr old Solarworld install, and had a bad series 
MC connector (module to module).  It got quite crispy, deforming and 
bubbling the plastic on both sides of the connection.  It was still 
passing current; I didn't get a chance to measure the volt drop.  It was 
completely plugged in, so not an installation issue.


This was not one of our connectors made up in the field, these were 
Solarworld factory connectors on both sides, same model modules.  That 
also means no mismatch of "MC4" connector type.


10+ amps continuous, moist environment, 30F+  hotter than ambient temp, 
all are tough on connectors.  I predict more connector failures as 
module current ratings increase.


Ray Walters
Remote Solar

On 11/9/2023 3:02 PM, Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches wrote:


Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on 
fire because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility 
for it…


It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get 
some on them…


*From:* RE-wrenches  *On 
Behalf Of *William Miller via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches 
*Cc:* William Miller 
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? 
NEC interpretation/guidance?


George:

Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the 
same as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the 
manufactured assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that 
appliance.  By appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.


William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/>

CA Lic. 773985

*From:*RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] 
*On Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches

*Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* George McClellan
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?


Team;

With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is 
pushing the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 
125% solar derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module 
this will exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand 
that the homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the 
solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be 
larger?  Any guidance or reference material would be greatly appreciated.


Thx,

George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC

330 James Way Ste 150| Pismo Beach, CA 93449| USA

Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104

www.recgroup.com <http://www.recgroup.com/> | 
george.mcclel...@recgroup.com <mailto:shannon.k...@recgroup.com>





This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any 
unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this 
message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, 
please notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Glenn Burt via RE-wrenches]

Good luck trying to convince your customer that their house caught on fire 
because of a manufacturers flaw, and you have no responsibility for it…

It may be an out to shift the blame, but it only makes everybody get some on 
them…

 

From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, November 08, 2023 12:14 PM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?

 

George:

 

Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same as 
the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured 
assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By 
appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.

 

William Miller

 

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com <http://www.millersolar.com/> 

CA Lic. 773985

 

 

From: RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org 
<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org> ] On Behalf Of George 
McClellan via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: George McClellan
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?

 

Team;

 

With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing the 
limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar derate*125% 
continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A that a 
12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger 
AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also 
need to be larger?  Any guidance or reference material would be greatly 
appreciated.

 

Thx,

 

George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC 

330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA

Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 

www.recgroup.com <http://www.recgroup.com/>  | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com 
<mailto:shannon.k...@recgroup.com> 

 

 

  _  


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Starlight via RE-wrenches]

Choosing a higher insulation rating for the wire will increase current 
capability, if that works in your case.

Larry Crutcher
Starlight Solar Power Systems



On Nov 8, 2023, at 10:06 AM, George McClellan via RE-wrenches 
 wrote:

Team;
 
With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing the 
limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar derate*125% 
continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A that a 
12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger 
AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also 
need to be larger?  Any guidance or reference material would be greatly 
appreciated.
 
Thx,
 
George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104 
www.recgroup.com  | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com 

 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[George McClellan via RE-wrenches]

Excellent.  Thanks for the update!


George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
www.recgroup.com<http://www.recgroup.com/> | 
george.mcclel...@recgroup.com<mailto:shannon.k...@recgroup.com>


From: RE-wrenches  On Behalf Of 
William Miller via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:14 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Cc: William Miller 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?

George:

Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same as 
the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured 
assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By 
appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.

William Miller

Miller Solar
17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com<http://www.millersolar.com/>
CA Lic. 773985


From: RE-wrenches 
[mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>]
 On Behalf Of George McClellan via RE-wrenches
Sent: Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
To: RE-wrenches
Cc: George McClellan
Subject: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC 
interpretation/guidance?

Team;

With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing the 
limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar derate*125% 
continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A that a 
12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger 
AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also 
need to be larger?  Any guidance or reference material would be greatly 
appreciated.

Thx,

George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
www.recgroup.com<http://www.recgroup.com/> | 
george.mcclel...@recgroup.com<mailto:shannon.k...@recgroup.com>




This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any 
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is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us 
immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.



This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any 
unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message 
is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us 
immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.



This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any 
unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this message 
is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us 
immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

George:



Appliance manufacturers have their own requirements that are not the same
as the NEC requirements.  As long as you are not modifying the manufactured
assembly you are not responsible for compliance of that appliance.  By
appliance, I mean the solar module, microinverter, etc.



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *George McClellan via RE-wrenches
*Sent:* Wednesday, November 8, 2023 9:06 AM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Cc:* George McClellan
*Subject:* [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC
interpretation/guidance?



Team;



With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing the
limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar
derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will
exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the
homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module
cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger?  Any guidance or
reference material would be greatly appreciated.



Thx,



George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC

330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA

Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104

www.recgroup.com | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com 




--


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[Bradley Bassett via RE-wrenches]

Hi George, It's good to see you're still with REC.

I'd assume this would fall under the purview of UL rather than NEC.
Anything that meets UL will pass NEC. With temperature derates I think
you'd have had to go to larger wire long ago to meet NEC standards.

It might be good to go to a larger wire to keep V drop low.

Brad Bassett
retired, but still interested.

On Wed, Nov 8, 2023 at 9:07 AM George McClellan via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Team;
>
>
>
> With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing
> the limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar
> derate*125% continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will
> exceed the 25A that a 12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the
> homeruns will need to be a larger AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module
> cables (from junction box to MC4) also need to be larger?  Any guidance or
> reference material would be greatly appreciated.
>
>
>
> Thx,
>
>
>
> George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
>
> 330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
>
> Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
>
> www.recgroup.com | george.mcclel...@recgroup.com
> 
>
>
>
> --
>
> This message is private and confidential and may be privileged. Any
> unauthorized use, dissemination of the information or copying of this
> message is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please
> notify us immediately and remove it from your system. Thank you.
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
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>
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[RE-wrenches] Cable sizing for high current modules? NEC interpretation/guidance?

[George McClellan via RE-wrenches]

Team;

With the move to larger cells, some modules have an Isc that is pushing the 
limits of 12 AWG wire.  If I apply the rule of 156% (or 125% solar derate*125% 
continuous load derate) to an 18 Amp Isc module this will exceed the 25A that a 
12 AWG wire can carry.  I understand that the homeruns will need to be a larger 
AWG (10 ga), but do the solar module cables (from junction box to MC4) also 
need to be larger?  Any guidance or reference material would be greatly 
appreciated.

Thx,

George McClellan | Senior Technical Sales Manager | REC Americas LLC
330 James Way Ste 150 | Pismo Beach, CA 93449 | USA
Cell phone +1 805 704 3226 | Fax +1 805 357 6104
www.recgroup.com | 
george.mcclel...@recgroup.com




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is prohibited. If you have received this message in error, please notify us 
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