Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
I'm talking about systems that exceed 52 IQ7+ microinverters. These systems require an alternative AC load center. I have actually used the IQ combiner to just house the Envoy in the past for simplicity's sake even though the cost is somewhat higher. It is interesting to note that Enphase probably did not anticipate this use case for the IQ combiner because they do not include a knockout cover for the first PV string. On Thu, Mar 28, 2019, 2:43 PM Christopher Warfel < cwar...@entech-engineering.com> wrote: > If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside > cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility > interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G > busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. > My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making > my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment > in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button > pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. > The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss > your question. Chris > On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: > > When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC > conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground > wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only > exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. > > I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit > conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ > combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm > considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. > > While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would > it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus > load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & > settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette: > www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios: > www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
Hi Jason, In the IQ Planning Guide, the reference to calculating the OCPD at 1.25 x the inverter continuous output current rating was in reference to sizing larger OCPDs for the Enphase Q Aggregators (branch aggregators.) I did not intend to imply that smaller circuits should be installed on breakers smaller than 20A. 20A breakers are sufficient for protecting a single branch circuit of IQ Microinverters, provided that the field wiring is sufficiently sized. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Jason Szumlanski Sent: Monday, April 1, 2019 3:55 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. Somewhat unrelated is the confusion about AC branch circuit OCPD in an Enphase IQ system. My understanding was that each branch circuit could be protected by a 20A breaker, but I always designed it for minimum branch circuit OCPD at 1.25 x combined inverter output circuit rating. The Original IQ Combiner had 20A breakers preinstalled, so that was not an option. The IQ design guide states that for the Combiner+ and Combiner 3 that the installer should select breakers with the correct amp rating. The M series design guide stated that 1.25 x combined inverter output circuit rating should be used. But it seems that Enphase would approve of 20A circuit protection regardless of how the string is populated (up to the max). Back to the original thread - I'm thinking that a grounding conductor should run with the circuit conductors and just terminate on a lug or ground bar even if it's all PVC. As for whether the DIN rail needs to be bonded - no idea on that one... I could argue that it is not exposed if it is behind the Envoy I suppose. Jason On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:29 PM Nick Soleil mailto:nsol...@enphaseenergy.com>> wrote: Hi Jason and Christopher, We provide installation recommendations for installing an Envoy in a separate enclosure on pages 12-16 of our IQ Planning Guide found here.<https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/TechBrief-Planning-for-IQ-System.pdf#page=12> This tech brief doesn't address Jason's code questions, though. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org>> on behalf of Christopher Warfel mailto:cwar...@entech-engineering.com>> Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:43 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss your question. Chris On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! __
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
Somewhat unrelated is the confusion about AC branch circuit OCPD in an Enphase IQ system. My understanding was that each branch circuit could be protected by a 20A breaker, but I always designed it for minimum branch circuit OCPD at 1.25 x combined inverter output circuit rating. The Original IQ Combiner had 20A breakers preinstalled, so that was not an option. The IQ design guide states that for the Combiner+ and Combiner 3 that the installer should select breakers with the correct amp rating. The M series design guide stated that 1.25 x combined inverter output circuit rating should be used. But it seems that Enphase would approve of 20A circuit protection regardless of how the string is populated (up to the max). Back to the original thread - I'm thinking that a grounding conductor should run with the circuit conductors and just terminate on a lug or ground bar even if it's all PVC. As for whether the DIN rail needs to be bonded - no idea on that one... I could argue that it is not exposed if it is behind the Envoy I suppose. Jason On Thu, Mar 28, 2019 at 4:29 PM Nick Soleil wrote: > Hi Jason and Christopher, > > > We provide installation recommendations for installing an Envoy in a > separate enclosure on pages 12-16 of our IQ Planning Guide found here. > <https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/TechBrief-Planning-for-IQ-System.pdf#page=12> > This > tech brief doesn't address Jason's code questions, though. > > > Cordially, > > Nick Soleil > > Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories > > (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office > > (707) 321-2937 // cell > > *Powering What’s Next*™* | *The Enphase Energy Management System > <https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> > > NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 > > California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 > > > > -- > *From:* RE-wrenches on behalf > of Christopher Warfel > *Sent:* Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:43 AM > *To:* re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box > > *EXTERNAL EMAIL* - *Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or > downloading attachments.* > > > > > > If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside > cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility > interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G > busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. > My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making > my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment > in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button > pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. > The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss > your question. Chris > On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: > > When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC > conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground > wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only > exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. > > I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit > conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ > combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm > considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. > > While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would > it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus > load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! > > > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & > settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > > List-Archive: > http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html > > List rules & etiquette:www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm > > Check out or update participant bios:www.members.re-wrenches.org > > ___ > List sponsored by Redwood Alliance > > List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org > > Change listserver email address & settings: > http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org > <https://mailtrack.io/trace/link/da2ef7faff3c518f059fdaeefe6907a68f9fcecc?url=http%3A%2F%2Flists.re-wrenches.org%2Foptions.cgi%2Fre-wrenches-re-wrenches.org=1613865=8c5d3391ec9d7709> >
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
Hi Jason and Christopher, We provide installation recommendations for installing an Envoy in a separate enclosure on pages 12-16 of our IQ Planning Guide found here.<https://enphase.com/sites/default/files/downloads/support/TechBrief-Planning-for-IQ-System.pdf#page=12> This tech brief doesn't address Jason's code questions, though. Cordially, Nick Soleil Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager, Envoy and Accessories (707) 763-4784 x7267 // office (707) 321-2937 // cell Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy> NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300 California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315 From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Christopher Warfel Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 11:43 AM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading attachments. If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss your question. Chris On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
If you locate the envoy in a metal enclosure the WiFi connection will most likely not work. From: RE-wrenches on behalf of Christopher Warfel Sent: Thursday, March 28, 2019 2:43:04 PM To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss your question. Chris On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org<mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm<http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm> Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org<http://www.members.re-wrenches.org> ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
If you are using the IQ Combiner, the wiring diagram is on the inside cover. Coming from the array, L1, L2 and G. Going to the utility interconnection, L1, L2, G, N. L1, L2 into the 20a breakers, G to the G busbar, N to the N busbar. It's all there and is a nice package I think. My personal preference is to use manufacturer's equipment instead of making my own. I don't know if the AHJ would complain about non-listed equipment in the case of making your own DAS center. The Envoy may need a button pushed once in a while. I have asked customers to do this to save a trip. The Enphase "package" is safe for them to do that. I hope I did not miss your question. Chris On 3/28/2019 12:55 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote: When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Enphase Envoy in PVC J-Box
When mounting an Envoy on the supplied DIN rail in a PVC box wired via PVC conduit, is there any requirement to accompany the conductors with a ground wire? The envoy itself does not have a ground connection and the only exposed metallic part is the DIN rail. I'm thinking I need to mount a ground lug in the PVC box so the circuit conductors have a ground wire in the conduit. I have always used the IQ combiner even for larger systems because it was just easier. I'm considering changing to a regular PVC junction box with just an Envoy. While on the subject, if there is ample space within a load center, would it be permissible to mount the Envoy right inside the enclosure? 400A plus load centers in residential settings often have a lot of empty space! ___ List sponsored by Redwood Alliance List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change listserver email address & settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/maillist.html List rules & etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out or update participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
