Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites

2020-10-16 Thread Scot Arey 
Yes we use IQ combiners on all new projects. I will try to get my hands on this 
filter.




Many thanks for all responses.




Howard "Scot" Arey


owner, Solar CenTex


254 300 1228







On Fri, Oct 16, 2020 at 11:30 AM -0500, "Nick Soleil" 
 wrote:

















Thanks Jason and Scott,





Jason is correct.  The IQ system uses line to line PLC, whereas the M-Series 
microinverter communications were line to neutral.  Most of the noisy loads 
(like magnetic ballasts, touch lamps, etc) are 120V line to neutral loads.  For 
that reason, we see very
 few communication issues with the IQ microinverters.





Also, the widespread adoption of combiner boxes has had a huge effect on 
improving communications. 

@scot.a...@solarcentex.com, can you confirm that this site is using a combiner 
box.  Keeping the microinverter and Envoy circuits separate from the other 
house loads is critical to ensuring good communications.  We also have a power 
line filter product
 (Q-LCF-064-1P) that can be installed between the combiner and the main panel 
in the rare instances there are poor comms.  That filter is very robust and has 
been designed to filter noise and signals in the 110kHz IQ microinverter 
communication frequency.












Cordially,






Nick Soleil



Enphase Energy
 Senior Product Manager




(707) 763-4784 x7267  // office




(707) 321-2937  // cell



Powering What’s Next™ | The
 Enphase Energy Management System






NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300



California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315










From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
Jason Szumlanski 

Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 4:21 AM

To: RE-wrenches 

Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites
 





EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading 
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True, but this is MUCH less of a problem with IQ compared to M-Series. 



I just installed 212 IQ micros on a building with 268 existing M-Series. The 
M-series required ferrite rings and the IQ worked flawlessly without any 
filtering (although it took about
 3 hours for all of the IQ micros to initially come alive initially). This is a 
grocery with a lot of noise / motor loads.



Jason






On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:46 PM Jerry Shafer  wrote:



Wrenches
Noise in the AC circuits and Enphase is nothing new, when they adapted the new 
frequency this was in part to get away from the noise so it sounds like they 
still have a problem. I have seen a variety of new products effect the data 
stream.
Jerry




On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:37 PM  wrote:







We have a 53 IQ7 microinverter system on new-build construction that reported 
and performed just great until the homeowner (a custom builder, and one I’m 
trying not to unimpress!) moved in Sept 1 at which point reporting went wonkers
 with inconsistent data, perceived underperformance that seemed to shift 
through the array. All the stuff that makes troubleshooting a nightmare.


 


Enphase tech support level 1 was great and immediately pointed to a noise issue 
and she had a level 2 tech check and confirm that.


 


She recommended I get it on wifi (was on cell comms until the owner moved in) 
so I could get near real time reporting, then to go through the pump circuits 
to see what is making the noise and when I identify it to use ferrite loops to
 reduce the noise on those circuits.


 


Relatively new to Enphase since they brought on IQ7 and this is first PLC comms 
issue I’ve had to date. IQ7+ has been rock-solid for us.


 


Anybody have any experience with this noise and interference and recommendation 
on ferrite installation?


 





 


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites

2020-10-16 Thread Nick Soleil 
Thanks Jason and Scott,

Jason is correct.  The IQ system uses line to line PLC, whereas the M-Series 
microinverter communications were line to neutral.  Most of the noisy loads 
(like magnetic ballasts, touch lamps, etc) are 120V line to neutral loads.  For 
that reason, we see very few communication issues with the IQ microinverters.

Also, the widespread adoption of combiner boxes has had a huge effect on 
improving communications.  
@scot.a...@solarcentex.com<mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com>, can you confirm 
that this site is using a combiner box.  Keeping the microinverter and Envoy 
circuits separate from the other house loads is critical to ensuring good 
communications.  We also have a power line filter product (Q-LCF-064-1P) that 
can be installed between the combiner and the main panel in the rare instances 
there are poor comms.  That filter is very robust and has been designed to 
filter noise and signals in the 110kHz IQ microinverter communication frequency.


Cordially,

Nick Soleil

Enphase Energy Senior Product Manager

(707) 763-4784 x7267  // office

(707) 321-2937  // cell

Powering What’s Next™ | The Enphase Energy Management 
System<https://enphase.com/en-us/products-and-services/envoy>

NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer #03262011-300

California C10 Licensed Electrician #986315


From: RE-wrenches  on behalf of 
Jason Szumlanski 
Sent: Friday, October 16, 2020 4:21 AM
To: RE-wrenches 
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites

EXTERNAL EMAIL - Use caution when responding, clicking, and/or downloading 
attachments.





True, but this is MUCH less of a problem with IQ compared to M-Series.

I just installed 212 IQ micros on a building with 268 existing M-Series. The 
M-series required ferrite rings and the IQ worked flawlessly without any 
filtering (although it took about 3 hours for all of the IQ micros to initially 
come alive initially). This is a grocery with a lot of noise / motor loads.

Jason


On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:46 PM Jerry Shafer 
mailto:jerrysgarag...@gmail.com>> wrote:
Wrenches
Noise in the AC circuits and Enphase is nothing new, when they adapted the new 
frequency this was in part to get away from the noise so it sounds like they 
still have a problem. I have seen a variety of new products effect the data 
stream.
Jerry

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:37 PM 
mailto:scot.a...@solarcentex.com>> wrote:

We have a 53 IQ7 microinverter system on new-build construction that reported 
and performed just great until the homeowner (a custom builder, and one I’m 
trying not to unimpress!) moved in Sept 1 at which point reporting went wonkers 
with inconsistent data, perceived underperformance that seemed to shift through 
the array. All the stuff that makes troubleshooting a nightmare.



Enphase tech support level 1 was great and immediately pointed to a noise issue 
and she had a level 2 tech check and confirm that.



She recommended I get it on wifi (was on cell comms until the owner moved in) 
so I could get near real time reporting, then to go through the pump circuits 
to see what is making the noise and when I identify it to use ferrite loops to 
reduce the noise on those circuits.



Relatively new to Enphase since they brought on IQ7 and this is first PLC comms 
issue I’ve had to date. IQ7+ has been rock-solid for us.



Anybody have any experience with this noise and interference and recommendation 
on ferrite installation?



[X]



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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites

2020-10-16 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
True, but this is MUCH less of a problem with IQ compared to M-Series.

I just installed 212 IQ micros on a building with 268 existing M-Series.
The M-series required ferrite rings and the IQ worked flawlessly without
any filtering (although it took about 3 hours for all of the IQ micros to
initially come alive initially). This is a grocery with a lot of noise /
motor loads.

Jason


On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 6:46 PM Jerry Shafer 
wrote:

> Wrenches
> Noise in the AC circuits and Enphase is nothing new, when they adapted the
> new frequency this was in part to get away from the noise so it sounds like
> they still have a problem. I have seen a variety of new products effect the
> data stream.
> Jerry
>
> On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:37 PM  wrote:
>
>> We have a 53 IQ7 microinverter system on new-build construction that
>> reported and performed just great until the homeowner (a custom builder,
>> and one I’m trying not to unimpress!) moved in Sept 1 at which point
>> reporting went wonkers with inconsistent data, perceived underperformance
>> that seemed to shift through the array. All the stuff that makes
>> troubleshooting a nightmare.
>>
>>
>>
>> Enphase tech support level 1 was great and immediately pointed to a noise
>> issue and she had a level 2 tech check and confirm that.
>>
>>
>>
>> She recommended I get it on wifi (was on cell comms until the owner moved
>> in) so I could get near real time reporting, then to go through the pump
>> circuits to see what is making the noise and when I identify it to use
>> ferrite loops to reduce the noise on those circuits.
>>
>>
>>
>> Relatively new to Enphase since they brought on IQ7 and this is first PLC
>> comms issue I’ve had to date. IQ7+ has been rock-solid for us.
>>
>>
>>
>> Anybody have any experience with this noise and interference and
>> recommendation on ferrite installation?
>>
>>
>>
>>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites

2020-10-15 Thread Jerry Shafer 
Wrenches
Noise in the AC circuits and Enphase is nothing new, when they adapted the
new frequency this was in part to get away from the noise so it sounds like
they still have a problem. I have seen a variety of new products effect the
data stream.
Jerry

On Thu, Oct 15, 2020, 2:37 PM  wrote:

> We have a 53 IQ7 microinverter system on new-build construction that
> reported and performed just great until the homeowner (a custom builder,
> and one I’m trying not to unimpress!) moved in Sept 1 at which point
> reporting went wonkers with inconsistent data, perceived underperformance
> that seemed to shift through the array. All the stuff that makes
> troubleshooting a nightmare.
>
>
>
> Enphase tech support level 1 was great and immediately pointed to a noise
> issue and she had a level 2 tech check and confirm that.
>
>
>
> She recommended I get it on wifi (was on cell comms until the owner moved
> in) so I could get near real time reporting, then to go through the pump
> circuits to see what is making the noise and when I identify it to use
> ferrite loops to reduce the noise on those circuits.
>
>
>
> Relatively new to Enphase since they brought on IQ7 and this is first PLC
> comms issue I’ve had to date. IQ7+ has been rock-solid for us.
>
>
>
> Anybody have any experience with this noise and interference and
> recommendation on ferrite installation?
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites

2020-10-15 Thread Jason Szumlanski 
I don't agree with this advice about the ferrite rings. Put the ferrite
rings on the Enphase combined inverter output circuit from the AC combiner
to the point of interconnection. That filters out all noise from all
sources. I can be a pain with larger conductor sizes if you have to loop
the conductors more than once. It sounds like you have #4 minimum for a 66A
calculated circuit, which will take some space to accomplish. See here:
https://enphase.com/en-us/support/faq/where-do-i-install-ferrite-toroid-rings


Now since you say you are using IQ7 micros, presumably you are using the IQ
Combiner, which can handle 64 of those micros. When using the IQ Combiner,
I have only had one instance where there was sufficient noise to cause a
problem with micro->Envoy comms. In this case it was IQ6+ micros and it was
a nearby heat pump pool heater causing the interference. It was easy to
determine the source since it started each day with the pool pump and
stopped when the setpoint pool temperature was reached. It would be helpful
to know how you have the AC strings combined and where the Envoy is
connected.

On cell comms, no matter what, you are at a serious disadvantage. I will
say also that cell comm issues can look like micro reporting issues. I had
a cell comm site recently where it would all of a sudden not report for 1-3
expected reporting intervals in a row, then catch up. This looked a lot
like micro reporting issues from the Enlighten perspective. A software
update from Enphase resolved this.

Honestly, I hate the Enphase cell comm 6-hour reporting cycle. It is pretty
terrible actually. I avoid it at all costs. I had a community of 104
Enphase homes all commissioned on cell modems and it was a nightmare
dealing with diagnostics and especially CT issues (since we could not power
up systems that had no meter at the time of installation to check CTs for
proper installation). I agree with Enphase on this point - get it connected
to broadband, at least temporarily to diagnose issues. I have gone as far
as using an Ethernet wi-fi bridge connected to my mobile hotspot to
diagnose issues.

Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group



On Thu, Oct 15, 2020 at 5:01 PM  wrote:

> We have a 53 IQ7 microinverter system on new-build construction that
> reported and performed just great until the homeowner (a custom builder,
> and one I’m trying not to unimpress!) moved in Sept 1 at which point
> reporting went wonkers with inconsistent data, perceived underperformance
> that seemed to shift through the array. All the stuff that makes
> troubleshooting a nightmare.
>
>
>
> Enphase tech support level 1 was great and immediately pointed to a noise
> issue and she had a level 2 tech check and confirm that.
>
>
>
> She recommended I get it on wifi (was on cell comms until the owner moved
> in) so I could get near real time reporting, then to go through the pump
> circuits to see what is making the noise and when I identify it to use
> ferrite loops to reduce the noise on those circuits.
>
>
>
> Relatively new to Enphase since they brought on IQ7 and this is first PLC
> comms issue I’ve had to date. IQ7+ has been rock-solid for us.
>
>
>
> Anybody have any experience with this noise and interference and
> recommendation on ferrite installation?
>
>
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Enphase noise interference to reporting; use ferrites

2020-10-15 Thread scot.arey 
We have a 53 IQ7 microinverter system on new-build construction that
reported and performed just great until the homeowner (a custom builder, and
one I'm trying not to unimpress!) moved in Sept 1 at which point reporting
went wonkers with inconsistent data, perceived underperformance that seemed
to shift through the array. All the stuff that makes troubleshooting a
nightmare.

 

Enphase tech support level 1 was great and immediately pointed to a noise
issue and she had a level 2 tech check and confirm that.

 

She recommended I get it on wifi (was on cell comms until the owner moved
in) so I could get near real time reporting, then to go through the pump
circuits to see what is making the noise and when I identify it to use
ferrite loops to reduce the noise on those circuits.

 

Relatively new to Enphase since they brought on IQ7 and this is first PLC
comms issue I've had to date. IQ7+ has been rock-solid for us.

 

Anybody have any experience with this noise and interference and
recommendation on ferrite installation?

 



 

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