Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-30 Thread Chris Mason 
I misunderstood the question the two options I listed are battery systems.
What I should have suggested as a solution was the Enphase microinverter
system with the Zero Export profile and Production CTs on the service to
the panel. That will do Zero Export so that all the power produced is self
consumed, there is virtually no exported power to the grid.

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019 at 9:16 AM Chris Mason 
wrote:

> Outback Radian or Pika.
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:41 PM Jay  wrote:
>
>> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but
>> no sell back to the
>> grid?
>>
>> Thx
>> Jay
>>
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> --
> Chris Mason
> Solar systems designer
> Generac Generators Industrial technician
>
> Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
> Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
> WhatsApp 264.235.5670
> Skype: netconcepts
> www.cometsolar.com 
>


-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-30 Thread Jerry Shafer 
SMA Has the optional Power during a grid failure
Jerr

On Thu, Aug 29, 2019, 8:11 AM Jay  wrote:

> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but
> no sell back to the
> grid?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
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[RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-30 Thread jay 
Hi Wes and everyone else.

I’ve heard from Enphase and Fronius offsite and indeed its quite possible to do 
“self consumption”.  Both Enphase and Fronius need some additional hardware but 
thats to be expected and pretty minor really.
SMA and SE both are supposed to do it but I didn’t pursue exactly what they 
need to do it, but I’m presuming they also need additional hardware to read the 
main.  At this point nobody is reading the smart meter, but  that would be the 
easiest and most accurate.  Maybe when sunspec comes out it will be able to 
interface?

This whole question started from an old client up in SE alaska, who’s utility 
no longer accepts NEM.  He’s got a lot of sun during the summer and not much in 
the winter as well as lots of clouds, which to me means that a battery system 
isn’t going to do much.  
And given how inexpensive GTWOB is, vs adding batteries its an interesting 
option.  In his case I think the self consumption option is a good one.  

In other areas with different price structures it might be totally different. 
And I’m sure will  have an impact as to what size system might be the most 
economic.  The Fronius has a relay option that will turn loads on/off based on 
curtailment.  

As to load peaks, those of us off grid folks understand to do it when the sun 
shines and to me I think we will see more and more smart day time load use as 
we see more and more renewables come on line during the daytime.

Thanks again everyone,

jay





> On Aug 29, 2019, at 11:07 AM, wes kennedy  wrote:
> 
> HI Jay,
> 
> The Fronius line, primo or symo have that capability. You need the smart 
> meter to measure current flow at point of interconnection. 
> The tricky bit is what happens when a big load suddenly turns off. There will 
> always be a small flow of energy across the meter for a second or two while 
> the system reacts and curtails the pv array. 
> HECO was fine with this limited, momentary export of energy.
> These residential systems typically have very low performance factors, as the 
> PV peaks around noon, when a typical load profile peaks morning and evening. 
> So you end up curtailing most of your pv production. 
> In a commercial application though, zero export can work really well, if you 
> size PV to midday loads. 
> 
> -Wes Kennedy
> 
> 

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-29 Thread wes kennedy 
HI Jay,
The Fronius line, primo or symo have that capability. You need the smart meter 
to measure current flow at point of interconnection. The tricky bit is what 
happens when a big load suddenly turns off. There will always be a small flow 
of energy across the meter for a second or two while the system reacts and 
curtails the pv array. HECO was fine with this limited, momentary export of 
energy.These residential systems typically have very low performance factors, 
as the PV peaks around noon, when a typical load profile peaks morning and 
evening. So you end up curtailing most of your pv production. In a commercial 
application though, zero export can work really well, if you size PV to midday 
loads. 
-Wes Kennedy 

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, 09:51:40 PM MDT, Jay  
wrote:  
 
 Hi Chris, 
So it doesn’t sound like what I’m after. 
I’m looking for a GT WO batteries  hooked to the main panel just like normal 
but having communication from the main ( could be reading smart meter or using 
sensors) to allow power to be consumed in the house but no export to the grid 
by reducing power from the GT inverter. I know it’s done in other countries, 
India for example. 
No sub panel, no dedicated loads panel, no back up, just a normal GT system for 
self consumption with of course the grid suppling what ever the GT inverter 
isn’t. 
Guessing from comments so far I’m SOL. 
Jay
On Aug 28, 2019, at 6:28 PM, Chris Sparadeo  wrote:


Jay,
My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power to AC 
loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a DC storage 
system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only on a larger 
scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the loads being 
energized, there is potential that solar PV production would not supply 
necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would essentially de-energize 
during low irradiance/night times. 
Best,
Chris 
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:19 PM Chris Sparadeo  wrote:

Jay,
My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power to AC 
loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a DC storage 
system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only on a large 
scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the loads being 
energized, there is potential that solar PV production would not supply 
necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would essentially de-energize 
during low irradiance/night times. 
Best,
Chris 
On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:03 PM Jay  wrote:

are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but no 
sell back to the 
grid?

Thx
Jay

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-- 

Chris Sparadeo

NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652


Catamount Solar, LLC

4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060

C_(802) 369-4458

O_(802) 728-3600

www.CatamountSolar.com







-- 
Chris Sparadeo

C_802-369-4458H_802-728-3059

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-29 Thread Chris Mason 
Outback Radian or Pika.

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:41 PM Jay  wrote:

> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but
> no sell back to the
> grid?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
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-- 
Chris Mason
Solar systems designer
Generac Generators Industrial technician

Comet Systems Ltd DBA Comet Solar
Anguilla Cell  264.235.5670
WhatsApp 264.235.5670
Skype: netconcepts
www.cometsolar.com 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread Marco Mangelsdorf 
The SolarEdge HD Wave line with their accompanying electricity meter (which
uses CTs to make sure that export does not take place upstream of the CTs)
should work fine for what you suggest.

marco

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, Jay  wrote:

> Hi Chris,
>
> So it doesn’t sound like what I’m after.
>
> I’m looking for a GT WO batteries  hooked to the main panel just like
> normal but having communication from the main ( could be reading smart
> meter or using sensors) to allow power to be consumed in the house but no
> export to the grid by reducing power from the GT inverter.
> I know it’s done in other countries, India for example.
>
> No sub panel, no dedicated loads panel, no back up, just a normal GT
> system for self consumption with of course the grid suppling what ever the
> GT inverter isn’t.
>
> Guessing from comments so far I’m SOL.
>
> Jay
>
> On Aug 28, 2019, at 6:28 PM, Chris Sparadeo 
> wrote:
>
> Jay,
>
> My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power
> to AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a
> DC storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only
> on a larger scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the
> loads being energized, there is potential that solar PV production would
> not supply necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would
> essentially de-energize during low irradiance/night times.
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:19 PM Chris Sparadeo 
> wrote:
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power
>> to AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a
>> DC storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only
>> on a large scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the loads
>> being energized, there is potential that solar PV production would not
>> supply necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would essentially
>> de-energize during low irradiance/night times.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:03 PM Jay  wrote:
>>
>>> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries
>>> but no sell back to the
>>> grid?
>>>
>>> Thx
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> ___
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>>>
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>>>
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>>> --
>>
>> *Chris Sparadeo*
>>
>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652*
>>
>> Catamount Solar, LLC
>>
>> 4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060
>> 
>>
>> C_(802) 369-4458
>>
>> O_(802) 728-3600
>>
>> www.CatamountSolar.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Chris Sparadeo
>
>
> C_802-369-4458
> H_802-728-3059
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread William Miller 
Friends:



I had looked into this concept a while back.  How does this relate to
self-consumption?  I have never been totally clear on that term.



The research I did seemed to indicate that in order to ensure absolutely no
feed back into the grid where it was proscribed, the systems drew 1 amp
continuously from the grid.  Is this still the case?  This might be
battery-based systems.



Inquiring minds want to know….



William





Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985



Quote of the month:  “As they age, batteries transition from energy

storage devices to energy consuming devices.“ W. Miller



*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Marco Mangelsdorf
*Sent:* Wednesday, August 28, 2019 6:12 PM
*To:* RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back



Both SolarEdge and the Enphase IQ7 should be capable of doing zero export
with or without storage.



marco

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, Jay  wrote:

are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but
no sell back to the
grid?

Thx
Jay

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread Jay 
Hi Chris, 

So it doesn’t sound like what I’m after. 

I’m looking for a GT WO batteries  hooked to the main panel just like normal 
but having communication from the main ( could be reading smart meter or using 
sensors) to allow power to be consumed in the house but no export to the grid 
by reducing power from the GT inverter. 
I know it’s done in other countries, India for example. 

No sub panel, no dedicated loads panel, no back up, just a normal GT system for 
self consumption with of course the grid suppling what ever the GT inverter 
isn’t. 

Guessing from comments so far I’m SOL. 

Jay

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 6:28 PM, Chris Sparadeo  wrote:
> 
> Jay,
> 
> My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power to 
> AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a DC 
> storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only on a 
> larger scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the loads being 
> energized, there is potential that solar PV production would not supply 
> necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would essentially 
> de-energize during low irradiance/night times. 
> 
> Best,
> 
> Chris 
> 
>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:19 PM Chris Sparadeo  
>> wrote:
>> Jay,
>> 
>> My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power to 
>> AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a DC 
>> storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only on a 
>> large scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the loads being 
>> energized, there is potential that solar PV production would not supply 
>> necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would essentially 
>> de-energize during low irradiance/night times. 
>> 
>> Best,
>> 
>> Chris 
>> 
>>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:03 PM Jay  wrote:
>>> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but 
>>> no sell back to the 
>>> grid?
>>> 
>>> Thx
>>> Jay
>>> 
>>> ___
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>> -- 
>> Chris Sparadeo
>> NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652
>> Catamount Solar, LLC
>> 4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060
>> C_(802) 369-4458
>> O_(802) 728-3600
>> www.CatamountSolar.com
>> 
>> 
> -- 
> Chris Sparadeo
> 
> 
> C_802-369-4458
> H_802-728-3059
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread Marco Mangelsdorf 
Both SolarEdge and the Enphase IQ7 should be capable of doing zero export
with or without storage.

marco

On Wednesday, August 28, 2019, Jay  wrote:

> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but
> no sell back to the
> grid?
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread Roland - RES 
Enphase, Solar-Edge, Pika, and I believe now SMA. You can check HECO advanced 
inverters list under CSS program which lists all compliant inverters. 

> Sent from a IPhone, with touch screen keys on the fly. Please excuse 
> shortcuts and typos. 
> 
Roland Shackelford
NABCEP CERTIFIED PV INSTALLER
President 
Renewable Energy Services (RES), Inc. 
Mobile:  808-938-9239
www.renewablenergy.com

> On Aug 28, 2019, at 2:55 PM, Jay  wrote:
> 
> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but no 
> sell back to the 
> grid?
> 
> Thx
> Jay
> 
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread Bradley Bassett 
I think you do need either a battery or AC source to start up the inverter
in the morning. It's also possible that if it is overloaded and shuts down
it might not restart. It will not start from PV alone.

Brad

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 6:28 PM Chris Sparadeo 
wrote:

> Jay,
>
> My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power
> to AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a
> DC storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only
> on a larger scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the
> loads being energized, there is potential that solar PV production would
> not supply necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would
> essentially de-energize during low irradiance/night times.
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:19 PM Chris Sparadeo 
> wrote:
>
>> Jay,
>>
>> My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power
>> to AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a
>> DC storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only
>> on a large scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the loads
>> being energized, there is potential that solar PV production would not
>> supply necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would essentially
>> de-energize during low irradiance/night times.
>>
>> Best,
>>
>> Chris
>>
>> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:03 PM Jay  wrote:
>>
>>> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries
>>> but no sell back to the
>>> grid?
>>>
>>> Thx
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> ___
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>>> --
>>
>> *Chris Sparadeo*
>>
>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652*
>>
>> Catamount Solar, LLC
>>
>> 4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060
>>
>> C_(802) 369-4458
>>
>> O_(802) 728-3600
>>
>> www.CatamountSolar.com 
>>
>>
>>
>> --
> Chris Sparadeo
>
>
> C_802-369-4458
> H_802-728-3059
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread Chris Sparadeo 
Jay,

My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power
to AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a
DC storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only
on a larger scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the
loads being energized, there is potential that solar PV production would
not supply necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would
essentially de-energize during low irradiance/night times.

Best,

Chris

On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:19 PM Chris Sparadeo 
wrote:

> Jay,
>
> My understanding is that the Outback SkyBox is capable of supplying power
> to AC loads (what they call “micro grid”) without needing grid input or a
> DC storage system. Kind of like the SMA SunnyBoy secure power supply, only
> on a large scale. However, depending on the electrical demands of the loads
> being energized, there is potential that solar PV production would not
> supply necessary power in the daytime...Also, the system would essentially
> de-energize during low irradiance/night times.
>
> Best,
>
> Chris
>
> On Wed, Aug 28, 2019 at 9:03 PM Jay  wrote:
>
>> are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but
>> no sell back to the
>> grid?
>>
>> Thx
>> Jay
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>> List-Archive:
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>>
>> --
>
> *Chris Sparadeo*
>
> *NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional # 042919-015652*
>
> Catamount Solar, LLC
>
> 4 Randolph Ave., Randolph, VT 05060
>
> C_(802) 369-4458
>
> O_(802) 728-3600
>
> www.CatamountSolar.com 
>
>
>
> --
Chris Sparadeo


C_802-369-4458
H_802-728-3059
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[RE-wrenches] Grid tie w/o battery no sell back

2019-08-28 Thread Jay 
are there any products out there that can do a grid tie w/o batteries but no 
sell back to the 
grid?

Thx
Jay

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