Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Hi Mac, We fabricated and operate a similar sized (400 kWh) battery / inverter / generator hybrid system for BC Hydro, our power utility servicing a remote community. It has been online for 2 years now. Using Dekka / East Penn D-series batteries which we had custom built to our specs. A notable difference is we have 100 kW diesels and 60 kW inverter capacity in a 120/208 SMA inverter config (stepped up to 14.4 kV distribution). The system works really well and it currently 100% uptime for last 12 months. This is an unattended system we are onsite to maintain every 2 months. No renewable input at this time. The sizing you have reported seems out of ratio. ~ 20 kW of charging power into a 400 kWh battery bank ie C/5. Depending on the loads the gen is carrying along with charging that could further reduce available charge capacity. That generator is going to have to run for a very long time to charge that battery. We call this the big battery blunder syndrome - which has caused many failures of such scale of system. Kevin -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]On Behalf Of Mac Lewis Sent: March 11, 2014 7:27 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation To clarify, this is for an off-grid application, 4 Sunny Islands, 30kW generator. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:16 AM, August Goers aug...@luminalt.com wrote: Mac, Is this for an off grid system? We're doing our first project with a Deka Unigy II battery system but they are AGM and I believe only good for grid tied battery backup or applications where you won't have a very deep depth of discharge: http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0919c.pdf Best, August August Goers Principal Luminalt Energy Corporation o: 415.641.4000 m: 415.559.1525 www.luminalt.com On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Hi Kirpal, With regards to your question about what size solar system will be feeding this large battery bank, we are still trying to optimize the design a bit. However, the the preliminary design was at about a 25 kW. During peak production, we expect about 500A(!) to be heading into the battery bank. Should be a fun project to see how it develops. Thanks On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 1:37 PM, Kirpal Khalsa solarwo...@gmail.com wrote: Ray.i do not have the link to the warrantyour salesman presented us with a variety of options ranging from 5 years upto 20 years.just like other manufacturers they had prorating levels with each option.If asked i am sure they will provide you with any information you want in regards to the warranty Allan.yes in fact we were also surprised with the low voltage settings that they specifyIn one system we installed a 3200Ah battery bank and trying to coordinate the settings they specify with the programmable settings offered in the Sunny Islands was an exercise in it selfThey have different terminology than is common in most RE system charging parametersmaking sure we were all talking about the same parameters was the hardest factorIf i remember correctly the absorb and equalize settings were almost the same per the manufacturer. I could not tell you much about the lead -selenium technology or the tubular positive plates with any expertise. The large system we installed these batteries on was specified to use the longest possible life span batteries coupled with high cycling capabilityAt the time they were the only company we could find willing to put the 20 year warranty in writing apart from some sealed Unigy batteries which were far more expensive..This was a AC coupled grid interactive system and so the batteries are in standby 95%+ of the timeWe have a contract to do routine maintenance on the system and have only had to add water once per yeareven then it was not necessary but to set it on course till the next time we are scheduled to inspect, 1 year later. The customer has had very few power outages but did have one for 4 days last winter and the battery bank worked flawlesslyWe really like the clear cases for quick electrolyte level monitoring. The cells have flip tops for easy access. My overall take on these batteries is that they are primarily designed for standby systems. We haven't used them in an off grid configuration. They have been in for 3 years with no sign of aging...I think they are a company that is only beginning to realize the possibility of the RE market and havent focused much effort in that direction in the past SBS was easy to work with, and provided good support for the seismic racking and spill containment systemwith more documentation than i am used to receiving from our main suppliers... Hope that helps... Cheers, Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-299-0402 o On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Kirpal; I see that the SBS batteries are rated to 1200 cycles to 80% DOD, but I can't find the warranty on their website. Do you have a link to that? R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 3/11/2014 9:26 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: Mac...good morningthat is a big battery bank!We have used the SBS Batteries for large battery banksThey offer multiple warranty options including upto 20 years. They are tubular plates with clear outer cases which make the electrolyte levels really easy to monitor and fillThey come with insulated cell interconnects with testing ports, they offer seismic racking custom designed to fit your battery bank, as well as spill containment trays and acid neutralizer kits for the spill containment trays. We have been very happy with their performance. They offer a 2V FLA cell at 4000Ah @ the 20 hr rate. They are a high quality product made in the USA and worth looking at. Here is the link to their website. http://www.sbsbattery.com/products-services/by-product/batteries/batteries-flooded-wet-cell-batteries/flooded-wet-cell-batteries-stt-series-flooded-2v-cell.html Additionally they offer hydrogen gas alarms for battery rooms. I am curious - is this a solar integrated system, if so, what size array would be charging the batteries? Good luck! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-299-0402 o On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Consider the HUP Solar One battery, the 125-33. It has 2490 AH at the 20 hr rate. The warranty is for 2100 cycles to 80% DOD. Also most of the jumpers
[RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates* ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Not that I have an answer for you, but I'm curious, too. You need to specify voltage to get a good answer. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Good point Jason. To clarify this is a 48V system. Thanks On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Not that I have an answer for you, but I'm curious, too. You need to specify voltage to get a good answer. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates* ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Mac, for this type of large system we typically use Surrette/Rolls 2YS31.They are 2430 ah. When we get into battery banks this large we typically only run two cells deep (front to back) for ease of maintenance. I hope your customer has some free time on their hands for maintenance. Remember, Surrette deep cycle batteries demand a higher than most charge rate or you will find the life of the cell will be significantly shorter than with proper charging. I'm sure your local battery distributor or Jamie Surrette can send you the tech stuff on these batteries. Any way it goes, this is a very big battery bank. Good luck! Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design Good point Jason. To clarify this is a 48V system. Thanks On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Not that I have an answer for you, but I'm curious, too. You need to specify voltage to get a good answer. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates* ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Surrette YS 31s 2400Ahr X 3strings = 7200 2 volt IN plastic containment
vessels. ~280Lbs/per
On Mar 11, 2014, at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis wrote:
Hi wrenches,
I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is
quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend
for this?
Thanks in advance
--
Mac Lewis
Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
We've used these batteries in a couple of high end off-grid jobs and they work great. Yes, they are around 280 pounds..but by afternoon, they're more like 325 ;-) The last system we installed had 48 of these. And as Tump said, allow plenty of time for watering...especially if you wind up with 72 cells. Roy Butler NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer NYSERDA eligible PV wind installer IREC Certified Master Trainer for Small Wind Installer Four Winds Renewable Energy, LLC 8902 Route 46, Arkport, NY 14807 607-324-9747 www.four-winds-energy.com Join us at the 10th Annual Small Wind Conference A Gathering of Installers, Manufacturers, Dealers, Distributors June 17 and 18, 2014 in Stevens Point, Wisconsin www.smallwindconference.com Although no trees were killed in the sending of this message, a large number of electrons were terribly inconvenienced. On 3/11/2014 10:10 AM, Tump wrote: Surrette YS 31s 2400Ahr X 3strings = 7200 2 volt IN plastic containment vessels. ~280Lbs/per On Mar 11, 2014, at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis "Yo solo s que no s nada."-Scrates ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org t...@swnl.net www.SWNL.net Solarwinds Northernlights Serving Mid Coast Maine Northern California 207-832-7574Cl. 610-517-8401 Blair "TUMP" May MAINE'S CHARTER NABCEP "Certified PV Installer" MAINE'S CHARTER Trace Xantrex "Certified" Dealer / Installer" ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
As a side note, if you use the 2YS31 Surrettes, as I did for a single 48V string about a year ago. You may want to have them shipped from Canada as a batch. I'm almost certain that my pack of 24 2v cells was a mixture of manufacture dates, 3 of which were in the distribution chain for too long. So I have 3 cells that, despite the hours and hours and days of charging I cannot get above SG 1.252. The rest of the cells are in the 1.268~1.275 range after EQ. Yes, I've talked to Steve Higgins about this a couple timesso far, I don't have the answer I would like after having spent a very large chunk on $$ on what I'm hoping is a 15 year pack. Bill Feather River Solar Electric 4291 Nelson St. Taylorsville, CA 95983 530.284.7849 / 6544 fax - Original Message - From: Mac Lewis To: RE-wrenches Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:45 AM Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation Good point Jason. To clarify this is a 48V system. Thanks On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com wrote: Not that I have an answer for you, but I'm curious, too. You need to specify voltage to get a good answer. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates -- ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Consider the HUP Solar One battery, the 125-33. It has 2490 AH at the 20 hr rate. The warranty is for 2100 cycles to 80% DOD. Also most of the jumpers are included (bus bars within each 12 v group) We've had nothing but happy customers since we started using the HUPs. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/11/2014 8:01 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Mac, for this type of large system we typically use Surrette/Rolls 2YS31.They are 2430 ah. When we get into battery banks this large we typically only run two cells deep (front to back) for ease of maintenance. I hope your customer has some free time on their hands for maintenance. Remember, Surrette deep cycle batteries demand a higher than most charge rate or you will find the life of the cell will be significantly shorter than with proper charging. I'm sure your local battery distributor or Jamie Surrette can send you the tech stuff on these batteries. Any way it goes, this is a very big battery bank. Good luck! Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design Good point Jason. To clarify this is a 48V system. Thanks On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Not that I have an answer for you, but I'm curious, too. You need to specify voltage to get a good answer. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates* ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Mac, Is this for an off grid system? We're doing our first project with a Deka Unigy II battery system but they are AGM and I believe only good for grid tied battery backup or applications where you won't have a very deep depth of discharge: http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0919c.pdf Best, August *August Goers* Principal Luminalt Energy Corporation o: 415.641.4000 m: 415.559.1525 www.luminalt.com On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis * Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
To clarify, this is for an off-grid application, 4 Sunny Islands, 30kW generator. On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:16 AM, August Goers aug...@luminalt.com wrote: Mac, Is this for an off grid system? We're doing our first project with a Deka Unigy II battery system but they are AGM and I believe only good for grid tied battery backup or applications where you won't have a very deep depth of discharge: http://www.dekabatteries.com/assets/base/0919c.pdf Best, August *August Goers* Principal Luminalt Energy Corporation o: 415.641.4000 m: 415.559.1525 www.luminalt.com On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 6:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis * Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates * ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates* ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Mac...good morningthat is a big battery bank!We have used the SBS Batteries for large battery banksThey offer multiple warranty options including upto 20 years. They are tubular plates with clear outer cases which make the electrolyte levels really easy to monitor and fillThey come with insulated cell interconnects with testing ports, they offer seismic racking custom designed to fit your battery bank, as well as spill containment trays and acid neutralizer kits for the spill containment trays. We have been very happy with their performance. They offer a 2V FLA cell at 4000Ah @ the 20 hr rate. They are a high quality product made in the USA and worth looking at. Here is the link to their website. http://www.sbsbattery.com/products-services/by-product/batteries/batteries-flooded-wet-cell-batteries/flooded-wet-cell-batteries-stt-series-flooded-2v-cell.html Additionally they offer hydrogen gas alarms for battery rooms. I am curious - is this a solar integrated system, if so, what size array would be charging the batteries? Good luck! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-299-0402 o On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Consider the HUP Solar One battery, the 125-33. It has 2490 AH at the 20 hr rate. The warranty is for 2100 cycles to 80% DOD. Also most of the jumpers are included (bus bars within each 12 v group) We've had nothing but happy customers since we started using the HUPs. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/11/2014 8:01 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Mac, for this type of large system we typically use Surrette/Rolls 2YS31.They are 2430 ah. When we get into battery banks this large we typically only run two cells deep (front to back) for ease of maintenance. I hope your customer has some free time on their hands for maintenance. Remember, Surrette deep cycle batteries demand a higher than most charge rate or you will find the life of the cell will be significantly shorter than with proper charging. I'm sure your local battery distributor or Jamie Surrette can send you the tech stuff on these batteries. Any way it goes, this is a very big battery bank. Good luck! Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design Good point Jason. To clarify this is a 48V system. Thanks On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Not that I have an answer for you, but I'm curious, too. You need to specify voltage to get a good answer. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates* ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re- wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re- wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Mac: One option is steel tray batteries. Manufacturers include MK/Deka and Hawker. We are accepting delivery of 6 of the 1800 a/h Hawkers Friday. They are 2600 pounds each. We move them with a special narrow pallet jack. Heres some photos: http://www.millersolar.com/public_html/MillerSolar/Portfolio/Commercial/Cal_ Trans/_cal_trans_gorda.html The bank shown is VRLA and were a poor choice for the application. They failed in 8 years. They will be replaced by FLA batteries with a watering system. We will leave the watering system turned off so we can inspect each cell for consumption before watering. Good luck, William From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Mac Lewis Sent: Tuesday, March 11, 2014 6:25 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Hi Kirpal; I see that the SBS batteries are rated to 1200 cycles to 80% DOD, but I can't find the warranty on their website. Do you have a link to that? R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/11/2014 9:26 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: Mac...good morningthat is a big battery bank!We have used the SBS Batteries for large battery banksThey offer multiple warranty options including upto 20 years. They are tubular plates with clear outer cases which make the electrolyte levels really easy to monitor and fillThey come with insulated cell interconnects with testing ports, they offer seismic racking custom designed to fit your battery bank, as well as spill containment trays and acid neutralizer kits for the spill containment trays. We have been very happy with their performance. They offer a 2V FLA cell at 4000Ah @ the 20 hr rate. They are a high quality product made in the USA and worth looking at. Here is the link to their website. http://www.sbsbattery.com/products-services/by-product/batteries/batteries-flooded-wet-cell-batteries/flooded-wet-cell-batteries-stt-series-flooded-2v-cell.html Additionally they offer hydrogen gas alarms for battery rooms. I am curious - is this a solar integrated system, if so, what size array would be charging the batteries? Good luck! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com http://www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-299-0402 o On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com mailto:r...@solarray.com wrote: Consider the HUP Solar One battery, the 125-33. It has 2490 AH at the 20 hr rate. The warranty is for 2100 cycles to 80% DOD. Also most of the jumpers are included (bus bars within each 12 v group) We've had nothing but happy customers since we started using the HUPs. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 tel:303%20505-8760 On 3/11/2014 8:01 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com mailto:penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Mac, for this type of large system we typically use Surrette/Rolls 2YS31.They are 2430 ah. When we get into battery banks this large we typically only run two cells deep (front to back) for ease of maintenance. I hope your customer has some free time on their hands for maintenance. Remember, Surrette deep cycle batteries demand a higher than most charge rate or you will find the life of the cell will be significantly shorter than with proper charging. I'm sure your local battery distributor or Jamie Surrette can send you the tech stuff on these batteries. Any way it goes, this is a very big battery bank. Good luck! Daryl DeJoy NABCEP Certified PV installer Penobscot Solar Design Good point Jason. To clarify this is a 48V system. Thanks On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 7:44 AM, Jason Szumlanski ja...@fafcosolar.com mailto:ja...@fafcosolar.comwrote: Not that I have an answer for you, but I'm curious, too. You need to specify voltage to get a good answer. Jason Szumlanski Fafco Solar On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 9:24 AM, Mac Lewis maclew...@gmail.com mailto:maclew...@gmail.com wrote: Hi wrenches, I am consulting on a job that requires an 8000 Ahr battery bank. This is quite a bit beyond my normal battery bank realm. What would you recommend for this? Thanks in advance -- Mac Lewis ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org mailto:RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Change email address settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org http://www.members.re-wrenches.org -- Mac Lewis *Yo solo sé que no sé nada. -Sócrates*
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Kirpal, I reviewed the link; thank you for this referral. I was surprised by the specified charge settings: while there's no bulk/absorption setting given, equalize is 2.33 - 2.40 vpc, or 53.5 - 57.6 v on a 48 v bank. This is what I would expect with VRLA batteries, not flooded, as it's barely skirting the edge of the gassing range. Is this something specific to lead-selenium technology? Is it unique to the tubular positive plates? Is it specified for industrial (regular recharge from grid) as opposed to "opportunity charging" typical with PV? Please help us understand from your experience with them. Allan Allan Sindelar al...@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional NABCEP Certified Technical Sales Professional New Mexico EE98J Journeyman Electrician Founder, Positive Energy, Inc. A Certified B CorporationTM 3209 Richards Lane Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 office 780-2738 cell www.positiveenergysolar.com On 3/11/2014 9:26 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: Mac...good morningthat is a big battery bank!We have used the SBS Batteries for large battery banksThey offer multiple warranty options including upto 20 years. They are tubular plates with clear outer cases which make the electrolyte levels really easy to monitor and fillThey come with insulated cell interconnects with testing ports, they offer seismic racking custom designed to fit your battery bank, as well as spill containment trays and acid neutralizer kits for the spill containment trays. We have been very happy with their performance. They offer a 2V FLA cell at 4000Ah @ the 20 hr rate. They are a high quality product made in the USA and worth looking at. Here is the link to their website. http://www.sbsbattery.com/products-services/by-product/batteries/batteries-flooded-wet-cell-batteries/flooded-wet-cell-batteries-stt-series-flooded-2v-cell.html Additionally they offer hydrogen gas alarms for battery rooms. I am curious - is this a solar integrated system, if so, what size array would be charging the batteries? Good luck! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-299-0402 o On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Consider the HUP Solar One battery, the 125-33. It has 2490 AH at the 20 hr rate. The warranty is for 2100 cycles to 80% DOD. Also most of the jumpers are included (bus bars within each 12 v group) We've had nothing but happy customers since we started using the HUPs. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/11/2014 8:01 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Mac, for this type of large system we typically use Surrette/Rolls 2YS31.They are 2430 ah. When we get into battery banks this large we typically only run two cells deep (front to back) for ease of maintenance. I hope your customer has some free time on their hands for maintenance. Remember, Surrette deep cycle batteries demand a higher than most charge rate or you will find the life of the cell will be significantly shorter than with proper charging. I'm sure your local battery distributor or Jamie Surrette can send you the tech stuff on these batteries. Any way it goes, this is a very big battery bank. Good luck! Daryl DeJoy
Re: [RE-wrenches] Huge battery bank recommendation
Ray.i do not have the link to the warrantyour salesman presented us with a variety of options ranging from 5 years upto 20 years.just like other manufacturers they had prorating levels with each option.If asked i am sure they will provide you with any information you want in regards to the warranty Allan.yes in fact we were also surprised with the low voltage settings that they specifyIn one system we installed a 3200Ah battery bank and trying to coordinate the settings they specify with the programmable settings offered in the Sunny Islands was an exercise in it selfThey have different terminology than is common in most RE system charging parametersmaking sure we were all talking about the same parameters was the hardest factorIf i remember correctly the absorb and equalize settings were almost the same per the manufacturer. I could not tell you much about the lead -selenium technology or the tubular positive plates with any expertise. The large system we installed these batteries on was specified to use the longest possible life span batteries coupled with high cycling capabilityAt the time they were the only company we could find willing to put the 20 year warranty in writing apart from some sealed Unigy batteries which were far more expensive..This was a AC coupled grid interactive system and so the batteries are in standby 95%+ of the timeWe have a contract to do routine maintenance on the system and have only had to add water once per yeareven then it was not necessary but to set it on course till the next time we are scheduled to inspect, 1 year later. The customer has had very few power outages but did have one for 4 days last winter and the battery bank worked flawlesslyWe really like the clear cases for quick electrolyte level monitoring. The cells have flip tops for easy access. My overall take on these batteries is that they are primarily designed for standby systems. We haven't used them in an off grid configuration. They have been in for 3 years with no sign of aging...I think they are a company that is only beginning to realize the possibility of the RE market and havent focused much effort in that direction in the past SBS was easy to work with, and provided good support for the seismic racking and spill containment systemwith more documentation than i am used to receiving from our main suppliers... Hope that helps... Cheers, Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-299-0402 o On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:42 AM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Hi Kirpal; I see that the SBS batteries are rated to 1200 cycles to 80% DOD, but I can't find the warranty on their website. Do you have a link to that? R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer303 505-8760 On 3/11/2014 9:26 AM, Kirpal Khalsa wrote: Mac...good morningthat is a big battery bank!We have used the SBS Batteries for large battery banksThey offer multiple warranty options including upto 20 years. They are tubular plates with clear outer cases which make the electrolyte levels really easy to monitor and fillThey come with insulated cell interconnects with testing ports, they offer seismic racking custom designed to fit your battery bank, as well as spill containment trays and acid neutralizer kits for the spill containment trays. We have been very happy with their performance. They offer a 2V FLA cell at 4000Ah @ the 20 hr rate. They are a high quality product made in the USA and worth looking at. Here is the link to their website. http://www.sbsbattery.com/products-services/by-product/batteries/batteries-flooded-wet-cell-batteries/flooded-wet-cell-batteries-stt-series-flooded-2v-cell.html Additionally they offer hydrogen gas alarms for battery rooms. I am curious - is this a solar integrated system, if so, what size array would be charging the batteries? Good luck! Sunny Regards, Kirpal Khalsa NABCEP Certified PV Installation Professional Renewable Energy Systems www.oregonsolarworks.com 541-218-0201 m 541-299-0402 o On Tue, Mar 11, 2014 at 8:05 AM, Ray Walters r...@solarray.com wrote: Consider the HUP Solar One battery, the 125-33. It has 2490 AH at the 20 hr rate. The warranty is for 2100 cycles to 80% DOD. Also most of the jumpers are included (bus bars within each 12 v group) We've had nothing but happy customers since we started using the HUPs. R.Ray Walters CTO, Solarray, Inc Nabcep Certified PV Installer, Licensed Master Electrician Solar Design Engineer 303 505-8760 On 3/11/2014 8:01 AM, penobscotso...@midmaine.com wrote: Mac, for this type of large system we typically use Surrette/Rolls 2YS31.They are 2430 ah. When we get into battery banks this large we typically only run two cells deep
