Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Jason Szumlanski]

I definitely think this would have helped. It's a strange thing to
consider... If a rail were added, would there be another failure point,
like the roof attachments, which would probably be a worse scenario? It's
hard to tell. There is a economic limit to how hardy we make these systems.
At a certain point, any installation will fail. Who's to say a small
tornado didn't pluck a system? I guess we have to consider what an
acceptable loss level is. It's no different than other building products
like roofing and windows. I have seen roof tiles stripped from a home and
an identical adjacent home with solar panels completely undamaged. It's
luck of the draw.




On Fri, Sep 15, 2017 at 10:07 AM, Glenn Burt  wrote:

> I wonder if a third rail would have prevented many of these escapees.
> Not even attached to the structure, just to every module.
>
> *Glenn*
> *Sent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical
> errors.*
>
> -- Original message--
> *From: *Ray
> *Date: *Fri, Sep 15, 2017 9:43 AM
> *To: *re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;
> *Cc: *
> *Subject:*Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays
>
> What was the pressure rating for the modules that got sucked off the
> racks?  Also, is it possible that flying debris caused some of the random
> location module failures?
>
> Ray Walters
>
> Remote Solar
>
> On 9/14/17 1:53 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> More early anecdotal data...
>
> We are finding NO anchors pulled out of roofs, regardless of roof type or
> attachment type. That is clearly not the failure point. We also see no
> attachment to L-foot or L-foot to rail issues. And contrary to my
> expectation, we see no t-bolt failures. What's happening? The panels
> themselves are flexing (bowing) sufficiently to work their way right out of
> the mid-clamps. This applies both to Unirac's older 1-inch space clamps and
> newer 1/4 inch bonding mid-clamps.
>
> This attached pictured system had panels on a north roof pitched very
> slightly to the south. We had northeast hurricane winds in this area, and
> the way the wind went under these panels was obviously what caused the
> panels themselves to fail. This is an essentially flat roof commercial
> application. It was bad luck to have the wind direction from the northeast
> corner (the NW edge of the eye wall passed right over this area). But we
> are seeing similar results on residential pitched hip and gable roofs in
> terms of the failure mode.
>
> What's interesting is that there is no rhyme or reason to where in the
> array we see damage. I have seen absolutely no catastrophic damage on a
> residential roof - just one or 2 modules mostly. And the missing module can
> be on the lower edge, upper edge, or right in the middle of the array. More
> often than not, the t-bolt and mid-clamp assembly is still sitting right
> there in the channel of the Unirac Solarmount rail, but a module is
> missing. It's quite freaky.
>
> And much like tornado damage I have seen on TV, houses adjacent to each
> other have very different fates. We have a new community (100+ homes slated
> for solar) with about two dozen homes completed, and just one home had a
> panel pop out in the middle of an array. It was gently deposited onto the
> adjacent panel with absolutely no damage and the DC leads still connected
> to the microinverter.
>
> One issue we are facing is that when panels fly off, something has to give
> with the DC leads to microinverters. No panel leads have been broken so
> far. In most cases, the MC4 connectors simple un-snap somehow - no loss of
> crimped connectors. We have a few cases of leads ripped out of the
> microinverter case completely. The microinverter bracket is badly bent on
> many microinverters, indicating that there was tremendous force until
> something gave up. I am extremely hesitant to reuse these microinverters
> because the force on the DC input leads must have been huge. I think we are
> going to insist on microinverter replacement when replacing modules in
> these cases.
>
> Hopefully I will have more, but not too much more to come. It looks like
> we did very well here (as an industry). There are spotty issues, but it's
> far from the catastrophe that kept me up for multiple nights before and
> after Irma. Then again, many people have not returned home yet.
>
> ​Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group​
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Jason Szumlanski  floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>> I'm based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas from Irma. We
>> are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll make this bri

Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[solar1online]

Jason,
Thanks for the preliminary failure analysis of the latest hurricane
damage. Do you have any photos which shows the bent mounting plates
for the micros? Wouldn't that be an indication of the force applied
before something gave up? Good call to get new micros when the leads
and their attachments may have been compromised.
TIA,
Bill Loesch
Saint Louis, MO

-From: "Jason Szumlanski" 
To: "RE-wrenches"
Cc: 
Sent: 14-Sep-2017 20:26:09 +
Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

More early anecdotal data...   
   We are finding NO anchors pulled out of roofs, regardless of roof
type or attachment type. That is clearly not the failure point. We
also see no attachment to L-foot or L-foot to rail issues. And
contrary to my expectation, we see no t-bolt failures. What's
happening? The panels themselves are flexing (bowing) sufficiently to
work their way right out of the mid-clamps. This applies both to
Unirac's older 1-inch space clamps and newer 1/4 inch bonding
mid-clamps.   
   This attached pictured system had panels on a north roof pitched
very slightly to the south. We had northeast hurricane winds in this
area, and the way the wind went under these panels was obviously what
caused the panels themselves to fail. This is an essentially flat roof
commercial application. It was bad luck to have the wind direction
from the northeast corner (the NW edge of the eye wall passed right
over this area). But we are seeing similar results on residential
pitched hip and gable roofs in terms of the failure mode.   
   What's interesting is that there is no rhyme or reason to where in
the array we see damage. I have seen absolutely no catastrophic damage
on a residential roof - just one or 2 modules mostly. And the missing
module can be on the lower edge, upper edge, or right in the middle of
the array. More often than not, the t-bolt and mid-clamp assembly is
still sitting right there in the channel of the Unirac Solarmount
rail, but a module is missing. It's quite freaky.   
   And much like tornado damage I have seen on TV, houses adjacent to
each other have very different fates. We have a new community (100+
homes slated for solar) with about two dozen homes completed, and just
one home had a panel pop out in the middle of an array. It was gently
deposited onto the adjacent panel with absolutely no damage and the DC
leads still connected to the microinverter.   
   One issue we are facing is that when panels fly off, something has
to give with the DC leads to microinverters. No panel leads have been
broken so far. In most cases, the MC4 connectors simple un-snap
somehow - no loss of crimped connectors. We have a few cases of leads
ripped out of the microinverter case completely. The microinverter
bracket is badly bent on many microinverters, indicating that there
was tremendous force until something gave up. I am extremely hesitant
to reuse these microinverters because the force on the DC input leads
must have been huge. I think we are going to insist on microinverter
replacement when replacing modules in these cases.   
   Hopefully I will have more, but not too much more to come. It looks
like we did very well here (as an industry). There are spotty issues,
but it's far from the catastrophe that kept me up for multiple nights
before and after Irma. Then again, many people have not returned home
yet.   
​Jason Szumlanski   Florida Solar Design Group​

  On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Jason Szumlanski  wrote:
 I'm based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas from
Irma. We are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll make this brief until I
have more time, which might be a while. We are seeing quite a bit of
minor damage and some major damage. We're getting calls from all
dealers' customers and a couple of our own clients. We have several
homes with one or two panels dislodged. There is no rhyme or reason.
Some are middle of arrays, some on edges. Panels are ripped right off
rails, leads ripped from microinverters. Strangely, it looks like the
panel j-box connection and MC4 connectors survived better than the
microinverter end of the DC leads. Amazingly, we have several panels
that were blown onto driveways, other roofs, and pool cages with NO
DAMAGE except frame scrapes. Very weird. We haven't seen a shattered
panel yet, but it's early.   
   I'm heading to a self-storage facility tomorrow where there are
three 25kw systems on different buildings. Two buildings are
unscathed. One building lost ALL of the panels apparently. Tornado?
Hard to say.   
   So far (other than the 25kw I have not evaluated) we have not seen
a single fastener pulled out. All of the failures are panel top and
mid clamps at this time. Anchor and rails remain intact. Possibly
installation errors? Possibly sheared off T-bolts? Hard to tell and we
may never ful

Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Glenn Burt]

I wonder if a third rail would have prevented many of these escapees.Not even 
attached to the structure, just to every module.
GlennSent from my 'smart' phone so please excuse spelling and typographical 
errors.
-- Original message--From: RayDate: Fri, Sep 15, 2017 9:43 AMTo: 
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org;Cc: Subject:Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane 
damage to solar arrays

What was the pressure rating for the modules that got sucked off
  the racks?  Also, is it possible that flying debris caused some of
  the random location module failures?
Ray Walters
Remote Solar




On 9/14/17 1:53 PM, Jason Szumlanski
  wrote:



  
More early
  anecdotal data...



We are finding
  NO anchors pulled out of roofs, regardless of roof type or
  attachment type. That is clearly not the failure point. We
  also see no attachment to L-foot or L-foot to rail issues. And
  contrary to my expectation, we see no t-bolt failures. What's
  happening? The panels themselves are flexing (bowing)
  sufficiently to work their way right out of the mid-clamps.
  This applies both to Unirac's older 1-inch space clamps and
  newer 1/4 inch bonding mid-clamps.



This attached
  pictured system had panels on a north roof pitched very
  slightly to the south. We had northeast hurricane winds in
  this area, and the way the wind went under these panels was
  obviously what caused the panels themselves to fail. This is
  an essentially flat roof commercial application. It was bad
  luck to have the wind direction from the northeast corner (the
  NW edge of the eye wall passed right over this area). But we
  are seeing similar results on residential pitched hip and
  gable roofs in terms of the failure mode.



What's
  interesting is that there is no rhyme or reason to where in
  the array we see damage. I have seen absolutely no
  catastrophic damage on a residential roof - just one or 2
  modules mostly. And the missing module can be on the lower
  edge, upper edge, or right in the middle of the array. More
  often than not, the t-bolt and mid-clamp assembly is still
  sitting right there in the channel of the Unirac Solarmount
  rail, but a module is missing. It's quite freaky.



And much like
  tornado damage I have seen on TV, houses adjacent to each
  other have very different fates. We have a new community (100+
  homes slated for solar) with about two dozen homes completed,
  and just one home had a panel pop out in the middle of an
  array. It was gently deposited onto the adjacent panel with
  absolutely no damage and the DC leads still connected to the
  microinverter.



One issue we
  are facing is that when panels fly off, something has to give
  with the DC leads to microinverters. No panel leads have been
  broken so far. In most cases, the MC4 connectors simple
  un-snap somehow - no loss of crimped connectors. We have a few
  cases of leads ripped out of the microinverter case
  completely. The microinverter bracket is badly bent on many
  microinverters, indicating that there was tremendous force
  until something gave up. I am extremely hesitant to reuse
  these microinverters because the force on the DC input leads
  must have been huge. I think we are going to insist on
  microinverter replacement when replacing modules in these
  cases.



Hopefully I
  will have more, but not too much more to come. It looks like
  we did very well here (as an industry). There are spotty
  issues, but it's far from the catastrophe that kept me up for
  multiple nights before and after Irma. Then again, many people
  have not returned home yet.




  ​Jason Szumlanski
  Florida Solar Design Group​






  

  On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM,
Jason Szumlanski 
wrote:


  
I'm
  based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas
  from Irma. We are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll
  make this brief until I have more time, which might be
  a while. We are seeing quite a bit of minor damage and
  some major damage. We're getting calls from all
  dealers' customers and a couple of our own clients. We

Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Jason Szumlanski]

5400pa I believe in all cases.

I don't see any evidence of flying debris causing damage at all so far.
Every damaged module that remained in place is explained by another module
hitting it.



On Thu, Sep 14, 2017 at 11:38 PM, Ray  wrote:

> What was the pressure rating for the modules that got sucked off the
> racks?  Also, is it possible that flying debris caused some of the random
> location module failures?
>
> Ray Walters
>
> Remote Solar
>
> On 9/14/17 1:53 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:
>
> More early anecdotal data...
>
> We are finding NO anchors pulled out of roofs, regardless of roof type or
> attachment type. That is clearly not the failure point. We also see no
> attachment to L-foot or L-foot to rail issues. And contrary to my
> expectation, we see no t-bolt failures. What's happening? The panels
> themselves are flexing (bowing) sufficiently to work their way right out of
> the mid-clamps. This applies both to Unirac's older 1-inch space clamps and
> newer 1/4 inch bonding mid-clamps.
>
> This attached pictured system had panels on a north roof pitched very
> slightly to the south. We had northeast hurricane winds in this area, and
> the way the wind went under these panels was obviously what caused the
> panels themselves to fail. This is an essentially flat roof commercial
> application. It was bad luck to have the wind direction from the northeast
> corner (the NW edge of the eye wall passed right over this area). But we
> are seeing similar results on residential pitched hip and gable roofs in
> terms of the failure mode.
>
> What's interesting is that there is no rhyme or reason to where in the
> array we see damage. I have seen absolutely no catastrophic damage on a
> residential roof - just one or 2 modules mostly. And the missing module can
> be on the lower edge, upper edge, or right in the middle of the array. More
> often than not, the t-bolt and mid-clamp assembly is still sitting right
> there in the channel of the Unirac Solarmount rail, but a module is
> missing. It's quite freaky.
>
> And much like tornado damage I have seen on TV, houses adjacent to each
> other have very different fates. We have a new community (100+ homes slated
> for solar) with about two dozen homes completed, and just one home had a
> panel pop out in the middle of an array. It was gently deposited onto the
> adjacent panel with absolutely no damage and the DC leads still connected
> to the microinverter.
>
> One issue we are facing is that when panels fly off, something has to give
> with the DC leads to microinverters. No panel leads have been broken so
> far. In most cases, the MC4 connectors simple un-snap somehow - no loss of
> crimped connectors. We have a few cases of leads ripped out of the
> microinverter case completely. The microinverter bracket is badly bent on
> many microinverters, indicating that there was tremendous force until
> something gave up. I am extremely hesitant to reuse these microinverters
> because the force on the DC input leads must have been huge. I think we are
> going to insist on microinverter replacement when replacing modules in
> these cases.
>
> Hopefully I will have more, but not too much more to come. It looks like
> we did very well here (as an industry). There are spotty issues, but it's
> far from the catastrophe that kept me up for multiple nights before and
> after Irma. Then again, many people have not returned home yet.
>
> ​Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group​
>
>
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Jason Szumlanski  floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> [image: Inline image 1]
>> I'm based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas from Irma. We
>> are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll make this brief until I have more
>> time, which might be a while. We are seeing quite a bit of minor damage and
>> some major damage. We're getting calls from all dealers' customers and a
>> couple of our own clients. We have several homes with one or two panels
>> dislodged. There is no rhyme or reason. Some are middle of arrays, some on
>> edges. Panels are ripped right off rails, leads ripped from microinverters.
>> Strangely, it looks like the panel j-box connection and MC4 connectors
>> survived better than the microinverter end of the DC leads. Amazingly, we
>> have several panels that were blown onto driveways, other roofs, and pool
>> cages with NO DAMAGE except frame scrapes. Very weird. We haven't seen a
>> shattered panel yet, but it's early.
>>
>> I'm heading to a self-storage facility tomorrow where there are three
>> 25kw systems on different buildings. Two buildings are unscathed. One
>> building lost ALL of the panels apparently. Tornado? Hard to say.
>>
>> So far (other than the 25kw I have not evaluated) we have not seen a
>> single fastener pulled out. All of the failures are panel top and mid
>> clamps at this time. Anchor and rails remain intact. Possibly installation
>> errors? Possibly sheared off T-bolts? Hard to tell and we may n

Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Ray]

What was the pressure rating for the modules that got sucked off the 
racks?  Also, is it possible that flying debris caused some of the 
random location module failures?


Ray Walters

Remote Solar


On 9/14/17 1:53 PM, Jason Szumlanski wrote:

More early anecdotal data...

We are finding NO anchors pulled out of roofs, regardless of roof type 
or attachment type. That is clearly not the failure point. We also see 
no attachment to L-foot or L-foot to rail issues. And contrary to my 
expectation, we see no t-bolt failures. What's happening? The panels 
themselves are flexing (bowing) sufficiently to work their way right 
out of the mid-clamps. This applies both to Unirac's older 1-inch 
space clamps and newer 1/4 inch bonding mid-clamps.


This attached pictured system had panels on a north roof pitched very 
slightly to the south. We had northeast hurricane winds in this area, 
and the way the wind went under these panels was obviously what caused 
the panels themselves to fail. This is an essentially flat roof 
commercial application. It was bad luck to have the wind direction 
from the northeast corner (the NW edge of the eye wall passed right 
over this area). But we are seeing similar results on residential 
pitched hip and gable roofs in terms of the failure mode.


What's interesting is that there is no rhyme or reason to where in the 
array we see damage. I have seen absolutely no catastrophic damage on 
a residential roof - just one or 2 modules mostly. And the missing 
module can be on the lower edge, upper edge, or right in the middle of 
the array. More often than not, the t-bolt and mid-clamp assembly is 
still sitting right there in the channel of the Unirac Solarmount 
rail, but a module is missing. It's quite freaky.


And much like tornado damage I have seen on TV, houses adjacent to 
each other have very different fates. We have a new community (100+ 
homes slated for solar) with about two dozen homes completed, and just 
one home had a panel pop out in the middle of an array. It was gently 
deposited onto the adjacent panel with absolutely no damage and the DC 
leads still connected to the microinverter.


One issue we are facing is that when panels fly off, something has to 
give with the DC leads to microinverters. No panel leads have been 
broken so far. In most cases, the MC4 connectors simple un-snap 
somehow - no loss of crimped connectors. We have a few cases of leads 
ripped out of the microinverter case completely. The microinverter 
bracket is badly bent on many microinverters, indicating that there 
was tremendous force until something gave up. I am extremely hesitant 
to reuse these microinverters because the force on the DC input leads 
must have been huge. I think we are going to insist on microinverter 
replacement when replacing modules in these cases.


Hopefully I will have more, but not too much more to come. It looks 
like we did very well here (as an industry). There are spotty issues, 
but it's far from the catastrophe that kept me up for multiple nights 
before and after Irma. Then again, many people have not returned home yet.


​Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group​



On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:18 PM, Jason Szumlanski 
> wrote:


Inline image 1
I'm based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas from
Irma. We are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll make this brief
until I have more time, which might be a while. We are seeing
quite a bit of minor damage and some major damage. We're getting
calls from all dealers' customers and a couple of our own clients.
We have several homes with one or two panels dislodged. There is
no rhyme or reason. Some are middle of arrays, some on edges.
Panels are ripped right off rails, leads ripped from
microinverters. Strangely, it looks like the panel j-box
connection and MC4 connectors survived better than the
microinverter end of the DC leads. Amazingly, we have several
panels that were blown onto driveways, other roofs, and pool cages
with NO DAMAGE except frame scrapes. Very weird. We haven't seen a
shattered panel yet, but it's early.

I'm heading to a self-storage facility tomorrow where there are
three 25kw systems on different buildings. Two buildings are
unscathed. One building lost ALL of the panels apparently.
Tornado? Hard to say.

So far (other than the 25kw I have not evaluated) we have not seen
a single fastener pulled out. All of the failures are panel top
and mid clamps at this time. Anchor and rails remain intact.
Possibly installation errors? Possibly sheared off T-bolts? Hard
to tell and we may never fully know.

We generally require 48 inch spacing between anchors into trusses
for engineered systems. The pullout values are pretty high. It
looks like the attachment points into the roof are not going to be
the failure point in the systems in Florida, 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Jason Szumlanski]

Most of the systems around here that were affected are microinverter based,
so we plan to look at degradation impacts through monitoring.


On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 6:49 PM, Brian Teitelbaum 
wrote:

> Thanks for the early report Jason. Be safe down there.
>
> I would be cautious about those modules that were so violently tossed
> about, even if the glass is intact. They may be full of cell micro fractures
>
> It would be interesting if we had IR images of working arrays from before
> and after a huge wind event like that, to see if there is any degradation
> of output. Maybe there are enough monitored systems with historical data
> now to see the effects, if any.
>
> Brian Teitelbaum
> AEE Solar
>
> On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Jason Szumlanski  floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:
>
>> I'm based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas from Irma. We
>> are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll make this brief until I have more
>> time, which might be a while. We are seeing quite a bit of minor damage and
>> some major damage. We're getting calls from all dealers' customers and a
>> couple of our own clients. We have several homes with one or two panels
>> dislodged. There is no rhyme or reason. Some are middle of arrays, some on
>> edges. Panels are ripped right off rails, leads ripped from microinverters.
>> Strangely, it looks like the panel j-box connection and MC4 connectors
>> survived better than the microinverter end of the DC leads. Amazingly, we
>> have several panels that were blown onto driveways, other roofs, and pool
>> cages with NO DAMAGE except frame scrapes. Very weird. We haven't seen a
>> shattered panel yet, but it's early.
>>
>> I'm heading to a self-storage facility tomorrow where there are three
>> 25kw systems on different buildings. Two buildings are unscathed. One
>> building lost ALL of the panels apparently. Tornado? Hard to say.
>>
>> So far (other than the 25kw I have not evaluated) we have not seen a
>> single fastener pulled out. All of the failures are panel top and mid
>> clamps at this time. Anchor and rails remain intact. Possibly installation
>> errors? Possibly sheared off T-bolts? Hard to tell and we may never fully
>> know.
>>
>> We generally require 48 inch spacing between anchors into trusses for
>> engineered systems. The pullout values are pretty high. It looks like the
>> attachment points into the roof are not going to be the failure point in
>> the systems in Florida, but there is a LOT of work to be done still. It's
>> going to be a very interesting few months ahead!
>>
>>
>> ​Jason Szumlanski
>> Florida Solar Design Group​
>> ​
>>
>> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, James Rudolph 
>> wrote:
>>
>>> Aloha Everyone,
>>> I was just wondering how all the PV arrays did during these storms?
>>> Does Florida have higher pull out values and wind designs for their
>>> PV/H20 systems?
>>> Is there any thing the rest of us could learn from all this?
>>> Photos?
>>>
>>>
>>> Mahalo Nui Loa,
>>>
>>>
>>> *James B. Rudolph*
>>>
>>> *Hawaii Unified*
>>>
>>> *Director of Energy*
>>>
>>> *ES Electrician # 10816*
>>>
>>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*
>>>
>>> *80*
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Chris Mason]

Most of mine survived Irma in Anguilla. The utility ground mount is totally
trashed. Our ground mount lost four modules.

On Sep 12, 2017 19:21, "Ray"  wrote:

We lost an array last year in Haiti to a Hurricane, but it all comes down
to mounting, racking, and debris flying into the array.   We determined our
rack which used the Schletter pipe clamps (pinch bolts) had pulled off the
mounting pipes.  We through bolted the clamps so they couldn't pull off
again, and went to triple rails.  I think racking in Miami done to
hurricane codes is probably not going to make the news.

Ray Walters

Remote Solar

On 9/12/17 1:34 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:

http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/11/americas/caribbean-
reacts-hurricane-irma/index.html



On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 12:09pm, "James Rudolph"
  said:

Aloha Everyone,
I was just wondering how all the PV arrays did during these storms?
Does Florida have higher pull out values and wind designs for their PV/H20
systems?
Is there any thing the rest of us could learn from all this?
Photos?
Mahalo Nui Loa,



*James B. Rudolph*

*Hawaii Unified*

*Director of Energy*

*ES Electrician # 10816*

*NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*



*80*










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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Brian Teitelbaum]

Thanks for the early report Jason. Be safe down there.

I would be cautious about those modules that were so violently tossed
about, even if the glass is intact. They may be full of cell micro fractures

It would be interesting if we had IR images of working arrays from before
and after a huge wind event like that, to see if there is any degradation
of output. Maybe there are enough monitored systems with historical data
now to see the effects, if any.

Brian Teitelbaum
AEE Solar

On Wed, Sep 13, 2017 at 3:18 PM, Jason Szumlanski <
ja...@floridasolardesigngroup.com> wrote:

> I'm based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas from Irma. We
> are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll make this brief until I have more
> time, which might be a while. We are seeing quite a bit of minor damage and
> some major damage. We're getting calls from all dealers' customers and a
> couple of our own clients. We have several homes with one or two panels
> dislodged. There is no rhyme or reason. Some are middle of arrays, some on
> edges. Panels are ripped right off rails, leads ripped from microinverters.
> Strangely, it looks like the panel j-box connection and MC4 connectors
> survived better than the microinverter end of the DC leads. Amazingly, we
> have several panels that were blown onto driveways, other roofs, and pool
> cages with NO DAMAGE except frame scrapes. Very weird. We haven't seen a
> shattered panel yet, but it's early.
>
> I'm heading to a self-storage facility tomorrow where there are three 25kw
> systems on different buildings. Two buildings are unscathed. One building
> lost ALL of the panels apparently. Tornado? Hard to say.
>
> So far (other than the 25kw I have not evaluated) we have not seen a
> single fastener pulled out. All of the failures are panel top and mid
> clamps at this time. Anchor and rails remain intact. Possibly installation
> errors? Possibly sheared off T-bolts? Hard to tell and we may never fully
> know.
>
> We generally require 48 inch spacing between anchors into trusses for
> engineered systems. The pullout values are pretty high. It looks like the
> attachment points into the roof are not going to be the failure point in
> the systems in Florida, but there is a LOT of work to be done still. It's
> going to be a very interesting few months ahead!
>
>
> ​Jason Szumlanski
> Florida Solar Design Group​
> ​
>
> On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, James Rudolph 
> wrote:
>
>> Aloha Everyone,
>> I was just wondering how all the PV arrays did during these storms?
>> Does Florida have higher pull out values and wind designs for their
>> PV/H20 systems?
>> Is there any thing the rest of us could learn from all this?
>> Photos?
>>
>>
>> Mahalo Nui Loa,
>>
>>
>> *James B. Rudolph*
>>
>> *Hawaii Unified*
>>
>> *Director of Energy*
>>
>> *ES Electrician # 10816*
>>
>> *NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*
>>
>> *80*
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
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-- 
Brian Teitelbaum
Application Engineer
AEE Solar, Inc.
Redway, CA
Tel: (805) 242-7856
Toll Free 1-800-777-6609 ext 7856
bteitelb...@aeesolar.com
www.aeesolar.com
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Jason Szumlanski]

I'm based in Fort Myers and we cover the hardest hit areas from Irma. We
are in the "stuff" right now, so I'll make this brief until I have more
time, which might be a while. We are seeing quite a bit of minor damage and
some major damage. We're getting calls from all dealers' customers and a
couple of our own clients. We have several homes with one or two panels
dislodged. There is no rhyme or reason. Some are middle of arrays, some on
edges. Panels are ripped right off rails, leads ripped from microinverters.
Strangely, it looks like the panel j-box connection and MC4 connectors
survived better than the microinverter end of the DC leads. Amazingly, we
have several panels that were blown onto driveways, other roofs, and pool
cages with NO DAMAGE except frame scrapes. Very weird. We haven't seen a
shattered panel yet, but it's early.

I'm heading to a self-storage facility tomorrow where there are three 25kw
systems on different buildings. Two buildings are unscathed. One building
lost ALL of the panels apparently. Tornado? Hard to say.

So far (other than the 25kw I have not evaluated) we have not seen a single
fastener pulled out. All of the failures are panel top and mid clamps at
this time. Anchor and rails remain intact. Possibly installation errors?
Possibly sheared off T-bolts? Hard to tell and we may never fully know.

We generally require 48 inch spacing between anchors into trusses for
engineered systems. The pullout values are pretty high. It looks like the
attachment points into the roof are not going to be the failure point in
the systems in Florida, but there is a LOT of work to be done still. It's
going to be a very interesting few months ahead!


​Jason Szumlanski
Florida Solar Design Group​
​

On Tue, Sep 12, 2017 at 3:09 PM, James Rudolph 
wrote:

> Aloha Everyone,
> I was just wondering how all the PV arrays did during these storms?
> Does Florida have higher pull out values and wind designs for their PV/H20
> systems?
> Is there any thing the rest of us could learn from all this?
> Photos?
>
>
> Mahalo Nui Loa,
>
>
> *James B. Rudolph*
>
> *Hawaii Unified*
>
> *Director of Energy*
>
> *ES Electrician # 10816*
>
> *NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*
>
> *80*
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[Ray]

We lost an array last year in Haiti to a Hurricane, but it all comes 
down to mounting, racking, and debris flying into the array.   We 
determined our rack which used the Schletter pipe clamps (pinch bolts) 
had pulled off the mounting pipes.  We through bolted the clamps so they 
couldn't pull off again, and went to triple rails.  I think racking in 
Miami done to hurricane codes is probably not going to make the news.


Ray Walters

Remote Solar


On 9/12/17 1:34 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:


http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/11/americas/caribbean-reacts-hurricane-irma/index.html



On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 12:09pm, "James Rudolph" 
 said:


Aloha Everyone,
I was just wondering how all the PV arrays did during these storms?
Does Florida have higher pull out values and wind designs for their 
PV/H20 systems?

Is there any thing the rest of us could learn from all this?
Photos?
Mahalo Nui Loa,

*James B. Rudolph*

*Hawaii Unified*

*Director of Energy*

*ES Electrician # 10816*

*NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*

*80*

**
**
**

*
*




Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.


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Re: [RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[William Miller]

Well they are micro-inverters. When the grid comes up some of them should be 
working...

> On Sep 12, 2017, at 12:34 PM, toddc...@finestplanet.com wrote:
> 
> http://edition.cnn.com/2017/09/11/americas/caribbean-reacts-hurricane-irma/index.html
> 
> <170907093020-02-st-thomas-irma-0907-super-169.jpeg>
> 
> 
> On Tuesday, September 12, 2017 12:09pm, "James Rudolph" 
>  said:
> 
> Aloha Everyone,
> I was just wondering how all the PV arrays did during these storms?
> Does Florida have higher pull out values and wind designs for their PV/H20 
> systems?
> Is there any thing the rest of us could learn from all this?
> Photos?
> Mahalo Nui Loa,
>  
> James B. Rudolph
> Hawaii Unified
> Director of Energy
> ES Electrician # 10816
> NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155
>  
> 80
>  
>  
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Sent from Finest Planet WebMail.
> <170907093020-02-st-thomas-irma-0907-super-169.jpeg>
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[RE-wrenches] Hurricane damage to solar arrays

[James Rudolph]

Aloha Everyone,
I was just wondering how all the PV arrays did during these storms?
Does Florida have higher pull out values and wind designs for their PV/H20
systems?
Is there any thing the rest of us could learn from all this?
Photos?


Mahalo Nui Loa,


*James B. Rudolph*

*Hawaii Unified*

*Director of Energy*

*ES Electrician # 10816*

*NABCEP Certified PV Installer # 091209-155*

*80*
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