Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Correction: 2.2k. Sorry for the confusion, my memory sucks.

William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 6:41 PM William Miller 
wrote:

> 2.7 k ohms = about 37 C. Digi key or I can send you a few.
>
> William Miller
> Miller Solar.com
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 5:27 PM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Jerry,
>>
>> I have an upcoming project where I will need to add the resister to
>> eliminate and batt temp charging corrections. I have not done this before
>> can you provide where I could find a twister to achieve this?
>>
>> Mahalo,
>>
>>
>> Roland Shackelford
>>
>> President / Owner
>>
>> NABCEP PVIP #091209-162
>>
>> Office 808.775.7410
>>
>> Mobile 808.938.9239
>>
>> Power Solutions for Generations Renewable Energy Services, Inc.
>> 
>>
>> " Where there is integrity, there will be trust. Where there is trust,
>> there will be an atmosphere for success." - Sadhguru
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:51 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
>> sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
>> charger over under charge issue.
>> Fun times
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Friends:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
>>> Islands and Sunny Boys.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting
>>> of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
>>> discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
>>> unacceptable charging and generator operations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
>>> inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
>>> believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
>>> battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
>>> voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
>>> myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
>>> with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter
>>> and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the
>>> SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift
>>> Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor
>>> control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have documented my research here
>>> .
>>> There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
>>> appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
>>> Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
>>> and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
>>> the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
>>> figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
>>> log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
>>> if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
>>> case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
>>> integrator that wants that knowledge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I
>>> am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
>>> someone someday…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try
>>> the other:
>>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List rules & etiquette:
>>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>>
>>> Check out or update participant bios:
>>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

2.7 k ohms = about 37 C. Digi key or I can send you a few.

William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 5:27 PM Roland - RES via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jerry,
>
> I have an upcoming project where I will need to add the resister to
> eliminate and batt temp charging corrections. I have not done this before
> can you provide where I could find a twister to achieve this?
>
> Mahalo,
>
>
> Roland Shackelford
>
> President / Owner
>
> NABCEP PVIP #091209-162
>
> Office 808.775.7410
>
> Mobile 808.938.9239
>
> Power Solutions for Generations Renewable Energy Services, Inc.
> 
>
> " Where there is integrity, there will be trust. Where there is trust,
> there will be an atmosphere for success." - Sadhguru
>
> On Nov 12, 2023, at 10:51 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
> sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
> charger over under charge issue.
> Fun times
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
>> Islands and Sunny Boys.
>>
>>
>>
>> With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting
>> of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
>> discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
>> unacceptable charging and generator operations.
>>
>>
>>
>> I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
>> inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
>> believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
>> battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
>> voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
>> myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
>> with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).
>>
>>
>>
>> I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter
>> and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the
>> SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift
>> Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor
>> control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have documented my research here
>> .
>> There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
>> appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.
>>
>>
>>
>> By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
>> Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
>> and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
>> the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
>> figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
>> log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
>> if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
>> case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
>> integrator that wants that knowledge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am
>> just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
>> someone someday…
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Kirk Bailey via RE-wrenches]

William,

 I agree that AC coupled input power can't be "directly" regulated by
the battery inverter, but it *can* be indirectly regulated using techniques
such as telling the downstream PV inverter(s) to back off via a
frequency-watt change, or turning on a diversion load, or worst case simply
shutting off the battery inverter AC output connected to the PV inverters
(so-called bang-bang control).  However, I thought the battery charging
parameters were part of the equation when the inverter is making the
decision about what to do if the batteries are nearly full?

And in my case, with the SI master set to EXT-BMS (most recent
firmware), the battery parameters *could* be set and appeared to make a
difference in operation.  My (possibly incorrect!), assumption was that the
closed loop communication was primarily for SOC and fault conditions.  If
there is any documentation for what the closed loop communication consists
of that would be really interesting!

Cheers,

Kirk Bailey
k...@abundantsolar.com
541-231-8072 x1


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 4:38 PM William Miller 
wrote:

> Kirk:
>
>
>
> There are a lot of misconceptions about AC Coupling in the industry.  I
> think you may have fallen victim to one:
>
>
>
> When you are feeding AC power backwards through a battery inverter, that
> inverter cannot exert any control over the charging parameters.  You can
> set bulk, absorption, float, EQ, any charge setting you can find, but if
> your power source is AC-coupled (coming in through the out door), those
> settings do not affect the charging at all.
>
>
>
> Someone please slap me if I am wrong on this.
>
>
>
> Those settings do apply if you have an AC source like a generator or grid
> that is connected to an AC *input*.   We cannot connect grid-tied
> inverters to any input because AC inputs do not create a mini-grid.
>
>
>
> Furthermore, if you set a Sunny Island for battery type “Ext BMS”, you
> cannot adjust those settings.  Pressing the buttons elicits wonky
> responses. Pressing up arrow jumps to zeros…  Pressing the down arrow can
> reduce settings but they will not be saved.  I have seen this and while
> Fortress cannot replicate this in the lab, they have heard this reported.
> (This Ext-BMS setting is only available with the latest firmware and by
> initiating New battery or New system in the quick programming function.)
>
>
>
> Until this moment I did not realize that this is another reason Closed
> loop on a
>
> Sunny Island is a non-starter:  If you can’t set charge parameters for
> generator or grid battery charging then you have a system that cannot be
> set to charge batteries from AC sources with precision.  If closed loop
> does not work for this reason, and open loop does not track the critical
> SOC values, then we may be out of options.  Maybe this is why SMA will not
> talk to anyone with lithium batteries.
>
>
>
> Hm…
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* Kirk Bailey [mailto:k...@abundantsolar.com]
> *Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2023 3:05 PM
> *To:* will...@millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an
> SI AC-coupled system
>
>
>
> I went back and looked at my notes on my recent adventure with closed loop
> SI to eFlex Fortress, and one thing I had noted at the time is that
> Fortress recommends 2.2V, 2.26V, and 2.3V for the setting for ChrgVtgFlo
> (220-10), depending on which of three Fortress docs I read.  I think I
> ended up setting it to 2.26V after some experimentation.
>
>
>
> I can imagine a scenario where the voltage gets *slightly* too high,
> activating the most trigger-happy of the battery's BMS's, and the resulting
> sudden partial loss in load then causes a transitory voltage surge from the
> SI, which then...
>
>
>
> Cheers,
>
>
>
> Kirk Bailey
>
> k...@abundantsolar.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> Jay:
>
>
>
> Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my
> assumption.
>
>
>
> However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance.
>
>
>
> The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain
> connected. Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…
>
>
> William Miller
> Miller Solar.com
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.r

Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Roland - RES via RE-wrenches]

Jerry,I have an upcoming project where I will need to add the resister to eliminate and batt temp charging corrections. I have not done this before can you provide where I could find a twister to achieve this?Mahalo,Roland ShackelfordPresident / OwnerNABCEP PVIP #091209-162Office 808.775.7410Mobile 808.938.9239Power Solutions for Generations Renewable Energy Services, Inc." Where there is integrity, there will be trust. Where there is trust, there will be an atmosphere for success." - SadhguruOn Nov 12, 2023, at 10:51 AM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the charger over under charge issue.Fun times On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys. With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused unacceptable charging and generator operations. I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!). I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging. I have documented my research here.  There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have. By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime, if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any integrator that wants that knowledge. Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help someone someday… William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Kirk:



There are a lot of misconceptions about AC Coupling in the industry.  I
think you may have fallen victim to one:



When you are feeding AC power backwards through a battery inverter, that
inverter cannot exert any control over the charging parameters.  You can
set bulk, absorption, float, EQ, any charge setting you can find, but if
your power source is AC-coupled (coming in through the out door), those
settings do not affect the charging at all.



Someone please slap me if I am wrong on this.



Those settings do apply if you have an AC source like a generator or grid
that is connected to an AC *input*.   We cannot connect grid-tied inverters
to any input because AC inputs do not create a mini-grid.



Furthermore, if you set a Sunny Island for battery type “Ext BMS”, you
cannot adjust those settings.  Pressing the buttons elicits wonky
responses. Pressing up arrow jumps to zeros…  Pressing the down arrow can
reduce settings but they will not be saved.  I have seen this and while
Fortress cannot replicate this in the lab, they have heard this reported.
(This Ext-BMS setting is only available with the latest firmware and by
initiating New battery or New system in the quick programming function.)



Until this moment I did not realize that this is another reason Closed loop
on a

Sunny Island is a non-starter:  If you can’t set charge parameters for
generator or grid battery charging then you have a system that cannot be
set to charge batteries from AC sources with precision.  If closed loop
does not work for this reason, and open loop does not track the critical
SOC values, then we may be out of options.  Maybe this is why SMA will not
talk to anyone with lithium batteries.



Hm…



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* Kirk Bailey [mailto:k...@abundantsolar.com]
*Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2023 3:05 PM
*To:* will...@millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI
AC-coupled system



I went back and looked at my notes on my recent adventure with closed loop
SI to eFlex Fortress, and one thing I had noted at the time is that
Fortress recommends 2.2V, 2.26V, and 2.3V for the setting for ChrgVtgFlo
(220-10), depending on which of three Fortress docs I read.  I think I
ended up setting it to 2.26V after some experimentation.



I can imagine a scenario where the voltage gets *slightly* too high,
activating the most trigger-happy of the battery's BMS's, and the resulting
sudden partial loss in load then causes a transitory voltage surge from the
SI, which then...



Cheers,



Kirk Bailey

k...@abundantsolar.com





On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Jay:



Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my
assumption.



However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance.



The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain connected.
Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…


William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com





On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the
fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage
gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery
impedance besides what the actual cells are doing.



Jay



On Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:



Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
charger over under charge issue.

Fun times



On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Friends:



I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
Islands and Sunny Boys.



With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of
SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
unacceptable charging and generator operations.



I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).



I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and
perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remot

Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Jay:



I think that is what usually happens.  During one occurrence 2 of the 5
batteries did shut down.



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* Jay [mailto:jay.pe...@gmail.com]
*Sent:* Sunday, November 12, 2023 3:08 PM
*To:* will...@millersolar.com; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI
AC-coupled system



Interesting

The high voltage disconnect is 58.4v.

Reconnect is 54.4v.



Maybe if the spike is fast enough the inverter trips off before the battery
shuts off?



Jay



On Nov 12, 2023, at 2:35 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:



Jay:



Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my
assumption.



However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance.



The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain connected.
Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…


William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com





On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the
fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage
gets too high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery
impedance besides what the actual cells are doing.



Jay



On Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:



Regarding the SI Inverters, for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
charger over under charge issue.

Fun times



On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

Friends:



I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
Islands and Sunny Boys.



With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of
SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
unacceptable charging and generator operations.



I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).



I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and
perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI
(as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power
Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control
over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.



I have documented my research here
<https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/36_SIFortress/36_SunnyIslandFortressIntegration.html#Inhibit>.
There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.



By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
integrator that wants that knowledge.



Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am
just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
someone someday…



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Kirk Bailey via RE-wrenches]

Make that 222-10 for ChrgVtgFlo, not 220-10

Kirk


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 3:05 PM Kirk Bailey  wrote:

> I went back and looked at my notes on my recent adventure with closed loop
> SI to eFlex Fortress, and one thing I had noted at the time is that
> Fortress recommends 2.2V, 2.26V, and 2.3V for the setting for ChrgVtgFlo
> (220-10), depending on which of three Fortress docs I read.  I think I
> ended up setting it to 2.26V after some experimentation.
>
> I can imagine a scenario where the voltage gets *slightly* too high,
> activating the most trigger-happy of the battery's BMS's, and the resulting
> sudden partial loss in load then causes a transitory voltage surge from the
> SI, which then...
>
> Cheers,
>
> Kirk Bailey
> k...@abundantsolar.com
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Jay:
>>
>> Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my
>> assumption.
>>
>> However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance.
>>
>> The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain
>> connected. Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…
>>
>> William Miller
>> Miller Solar.com
>> 805-438-5600
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the
>>> fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage
>>> gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery
>>> impedance besides what the actual cells are doing.
>>>
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
>>> 
>>> Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat
>>> temp sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent
>>> the charger over under charge issue.
>>> Fun times
>>>
>>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
>>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>>
 Friends:



 I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
 Islands and Sunny Boys.



 With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting
 of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
 discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
 unacceptable charging and generator operations.



 I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
 inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
 believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
 battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
 voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
 myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
 with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).



 I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter
 and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the
 SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift
 Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor
 control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.



 I have documented my research here
 .
 There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
 appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.



 By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
 Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
 and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
 the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
 figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
 log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
 if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
 case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
 integrator that wants that knowledge.



 Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I
 am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
 someone someday…



 William



 Miller Solar

 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

 805-438-5600

 www.millersolar.com

 CA Lic. 773985




 ___
 List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Interesting The high voltage disconnect is 58.4v. Reconnect is 54.4v. Maybe if the spike is fast enough the inverter trips off before the battery shuts off?JayOn Nov 12, 2023, at 2:35 PM, William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Jay:Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my assumption. However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance. The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain connected. Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…William MillerMiller Solar.com805-438-5600www.millersolar.comOn Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches  wrote:Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery impedance besides what the actual cells are doing. JayOn Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the charger over under charge issue.Fun times On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys. With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused unacceptable charging and generator operations. I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!). I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging. I have documented my research here.  There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have. By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime, if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any integrator that wants that knowledge. Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help someone someday… William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Kirk Bailey via RE-wrenches]

I went back and looked at my notes on my recent adventure with closed loop
SI to eFlex Fortress, and one thing I had noted at the time is that
Fortress recommends 2.2V, 2.26V, and 2.3V for the setting for ChrgVtgFlo
(220-10), depending on which of three Fortress docs I read.  I think I
ended up setting it to 2.26V after some experimentation.

I can imagine a scenario where the voltage gets *slightly* too high,
activating the most trigger-happy of the battery's BMS's, and the resulting
sudden partial loss in load then causes a transitory voltage surge from the
SI, which then...

Cheers,

Kirk Bailey
k...@abundantsolar.com


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Jay:
>
> Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my
> assumption.
>
> However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance.
>
> The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain
> connected. Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…
>
> William Miller
> Miller Solar.com
> 805-438-5600
> www.millersolar.com
>
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the
>> fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage
>> gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery
>> impedance besides what the actual cells are doing.
>>
>> Jay
>>
>> On Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>> 
>> Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
>> sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
>> charger over under charge issue.
>> Fun times
>>
>> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
>> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>>
>>> Friends:
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
>>> Islands and Sunny Boys.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting
>>> of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
>>> discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
>>> unacceptable charging and generator operations.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
>>> inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
>>> believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
>>> battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
>>> voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
>>> myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
>>> with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter
>>> and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the
>>> SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift
>>> Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor
>>> control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I have documented my research here
>>> .
>>> There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
>>> appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
>>> Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
>>> and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
>>> the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
>>> figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
>>> log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
>>> if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
>>> case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
>>> integrator that wants that knowledge.
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I
>>> am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
>>> someone someday…
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> William
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Miller Solar
>>>
>>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>>
>>> 805-438-5600
>>>
>>> www.millersolar.com
>>>
>>> CA Lic. 773985
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>>
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>>
>>> There are two list archives 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Jay:

Good question. I assumed some kind of FET circuit but that is only my
assumption.

However an open relay exhibits some fairly high impedance.

The symptoms indicate the SI shuts down but the batteries remain connected.
Something allows 69 volts on the battery terminals…

William Miller
Miller Solar.com
805-438-5600
www.millersolar.com


On Sun, Nov 12, 2023 at 2:22 PM Jay via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the
> fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage
> gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery
> impedance besides what the actual cells are doing.
>
> Jay
>
> On Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
> 
> Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
> sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
> charger over under charge issue.
> Fun times
>
> On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
> re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:
>
>> Friends:
>>
>>
>>
>> I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
>> Islands and Sunny Boys.
>>
>>
>>
>> With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting
>> of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
>> discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
>> unacceptable charging and generator operations.
>>
>>
>>
>> I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
>> inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
>> believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
>> battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
>> voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
>> myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
>> with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).
>>
>>
>>
>> I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter
>> and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the
>> SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift
>> Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor
>> control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.
>>
>>
>>
>> I have documented my research here
>> .
>> There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
>> appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.
>>
>>
>>
>> By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
>> Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
>> and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
>> the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
>> figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
>> log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
>> if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
>> case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
>> integrator that wants that knowledge.
>>
>>
>>
>> Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am
>> just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
>> someone someday…
>>
>>
>>
>> William
>>
>>
>>
>> Miller Solar
>>
>> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>>
>> 805-438-5600
>>
>> www.millersolar.com
>>
>> CA Lic. 773985
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List rules & etiquette:
>> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>>
>> Check out or update participant bios:
>> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Jay via RE-wrenches]

Maybe someone else knows differently but it was explained to me that the fortress batteries have a relay that disconnects the battery if the voltage gets to high or low. There isn’t any electronic  device to change battery impedance besides what the actual cells are doing. JayOn Nov 12, 2023, at 12:50 PM, Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches  wrote:Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the charger over under charge issue.Fun times On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches  wrote:Friends: I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny Islands and Sunny Boys. With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused unacceptable charging and generator operations. I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!). I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control over battery charging to having no control over battery charging. I have documented my research here.  There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have. By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime, if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any integrator that wants that knowledge. Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help someone someday… William Miller Solar17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422805-438-5600www.millersolar.comCA Lic. 773985  
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___List sponsored by Redwood AlliancePay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.orgList Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.orgChange listserver email address & settings:http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgThere are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.orgList rules & etiquette:http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htmCheck out or update participant bios:http://www.members.re-wrenches.org___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[Jerry Shafer via RE-wrenches]

Regarding the SI Inverters,for me it works best to eliminate the bat temp
sensor and put in a resister set to be 75 degrees, this will prevent the
charger over under charge issue.
Fun times

On Sun, Nov 12, 2023, 12:36 PM William Miller via RE-wrenches <
re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org> wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
> Islands and Sunny Boys.
>
>
>
> With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of
> SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
> discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
> unacceptable charging and generator operations.
>
>
>
> I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
> inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
> believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
> battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
> voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
> myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
> with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).
>
>
>
> I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and
> perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI
> (as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power
> Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control
> over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.
>
>
>
> I have documented my research here
> .
> There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
> appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.
>
>
>
> By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
> Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
> and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
> the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
> figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
> log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
> if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
> case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
> integrator that wants that knowledge.
>
>
>
> Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am
> just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
> someone someday…
>
>
>
> William
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
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[RE-wrenches] Integrating Fortress E-vault maxes into an SI AC-coupled system

[William Miller via RE-wrenches]

Friends:



I am still working on getting the E-vaults to play nice with the Sunny
Islands and Sunny Boys.



With Open loop I was getting significant discrepancies in the reporting of
SOC in the e-vaults versus that reported by the SI inverters.  This
discrepancy did not diminish over time.  The discrepancy caused
unacceptable charging and generator operations.



I got Closed loop hooked up, but I found that every few days the SI
inverters would shut down due to a battery over-voltage condition.  I
believe that when the e-vaults are near 100% SOC the BMS units increase the
battery impedance which means any charging current applied will cause the
voltage spike I have been seeing.   I was able to measure these conditions
myself on site, although they were very fleeting and required recording
with the Fluke87 Min-Max function (love this meter!).



I was able to extract log files from the Sunny Island primary inverter and
perform some analysis.  It appears when I turned on remote BMS on the SI
(as part of the Closed loop protocol) it disabled the Frequency-Shift Power
Control.  This means the SI inverters have gone from having poor control
over battery charging to having no control over battery charging.



I have documented my research here
.
There is a table of contents to take you to the latest information.  I
appreciate pertinent comments any of you might have.



By the way, if anyone has called SMA tech support for help on a Sunny
Island system, you have likely been asked to extract log files, zip them up
and send them off for review (and waited a long time for a reply).  I am
the kind of guy who does not like to wait for solutions and who likes to
figure out things for himself.  I have taught myself how to evaluate those
log files. I will be posting a web page on the subject.  In the meantime,
if you are interested, two of my analysis Excel sheets are linked in the
case study.  I will be expanding on this and providing resources to any
integrator that wants that knowledge.



Thanks in advance for any insight.  I hope I am wrong about this and I am
just missing something.  I also hope revealing my headaches will help
someone someday…



William



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985
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