Re: [RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[jay]

HI Nick,

Thanks for the idea.  I didn’t consider theSMA/ SI/MC because at this point its 
a legacy product and I wouldn't want to have to deal with potential lack of 
parts, technical support  or warranty should something go wrong. 

Also my understanding is that the MC box for larger systems isn’t UL listed?

I think my buddy is probably going with Sol-Ark’s.  He’s done a few large ones 
already and has an understanding of most of the bugs and work arounds.  

Its why he wants external chargers as he has had some real issues with 
inverters turning off on generator shut down.  Sol-ark is working on some kind 
of fix, but its a known issue. 

thank

jay



> On Dec 3, 2021, at 12:35 AM, Nick A Lucchese  wrote:
> 
> Hello Jay,
> 
> This was my same dilemma I posted about recently although not 208. Have you 
> considered SMA Islands in a Multicluster system? I did one last year and 
> other than tracking down a mis-wire on the CT’s in the Multicluster box it’s 
> been working extremely well. Do you know what brand of batteries yet? Blue 
> Ions are closed loop communications with the Islands now so it works 
> beautifully. There’s some reasonable deals on many of the Sunny Island 6048’s 
> right now from the DC Solar auctions too. One of the last ones just ended 
> yesterday actually. It would likely be easy to find many at 25-33% less than 
> the old distributor’s pricing.
> 
> Would love to hear what you decide to do with this. Best of luck, Nick
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 2, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Jay  wrote:
>> 
>> Hi all
>> 
>> Sorry I guess I didn’t explain the clients wants well enough
>> 
>> 1. 90-100kwh+ 48 vdc lithium battery 
>> 2. 208 3 phase AC generator powering 48v nominal battery chargers.
>> 208-3phase as that is the house/EE design voltage. 
>> 3. AC generator because it’s back up if the inverters fail, so no DC 
>> generator. 
>> 4. Client doesn’t want any drop outs or have to reset clocks etc during 
>> generator/inverter- charging/switchover.
>> 5. Inverter size is not decided yet, probably 40-80kw. 
>> 6.  Generator size isn’t specified yet, but given the loads 60-125kw 
>> probably. 
>> Size would be based on battery charging or max ac load which ever is larger. 
>> 
>> That leads me external chargers. 
>> 
>> I’m looking for large programmable battery chargers for lithium batteries 
>> powered from a 208-3phase ac generator in the 60-125 kw size range. 
>> 
>> Thanks
>> 
>> Jay
>> 
> 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[Mac Lewis]

What about large stacks of telecom style rectifiers with the output tuned
to the desired absorb voltage?  Very scalable but I'm not sure how the
costs would compare...

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 1:46 PM Michael Morningstar 
wrote:

> I’m currently building a similar sized system (a bit larger), so I know
> what the costs are for such scale. Seems like 6-9 SolArks or XWpros for
> dedicated closed loop charging only wouldn’t be unreasonable?
>
> If an equally sized battery charger exists it would be a monstrosity!
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Jay  wrote:
>
> Hi all
>
> Sorry I guess I didn’t explain the clients wants well enough
>
> 1. 90-100kwh+ 48 vdc lithium battery
> 2. 208 3 phase AC generator powering 48v nominal battery chargers.
> 208-3phase as that is the house/EE design voltage.
> 3. AC generator because it’s back up if the inverters fail, so no DC
> generator.
> 4. Client doesn’t want any drop outs or have to reset clocks etc during
> generator/inverter- charging/switchover.
> 5. Inverter size is not decided yet, probably 40-80kw.
> 6.  Generator size isn’t specified yet, but given the loads 60-125kw
> probably.
> Size would be based on battery charging or max ac load which ever is
> larger.
>
> That leads me external chargers.
>
> I’m looking for large programmable battery chargers for lithium batteries
> powered from a 208-3phase ac generator in the 60-125 kw size range.
>
> Thanks
>
> Jay
>
>
>
>
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:56 AM, MDElectricSolar 
> wrote:
>
> Maybe a DC output generator, the Wildcat Maverick charges a 48v battery
> bank directly and has it’s own controls, independent from the inverter.
>
> https://wildcatpowergen.com/pages/maverick
>
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>
>
> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>
> 
> Hi Jay,
>
> Is the plan to feed DC current (from generator and grid) into the
> batteries and keep the inverters as power source for loads?
>
> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:30 AM Darryl Thayer 
> wrote:
>
>> Jay I am confused as usual, what are the loads?  AC or DC?  How are you
>> charging the battery from the generator or how is the battery powering the
>> loads?   What is the desired current or the size of the generator?  sorry
>> if this I dumb question
>>
>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 2:23 PM Jay  wrote:
>>
>>> I got a call from a colleague that is designing a very large roughly
>>> 90-100 kWh lithium battery at 48v.
>>>
>>> He’s looking for large AC chargers to charge this bank. The reason is
>>> total elimination of switch over delay from inverter to generator and back.
>>>
>>> One technique is to use inverters for this, but pretty pricey.
>>>
>>> Any recommendations as to equipment, brands etc?
>>>
>>> It would be a 208 3 phase AC side powered by a generator.
>>>
>>> Thx
>>> Jay
>>>
>>> Peltz power.
>>> ___
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>
> --
>
>
>
> Mac Lewis
>
> *"Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates*
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[Michael Morningstar]

I’m currently building a similar sized system (a bit larger), so I know what 
the costs are for such scale. Seems like 6-9 SolArks or XWpros for dedicated 
closed loop charging only wouldn’t be unreasonable? 

If an equally sized battery charger exists it would be a monstrosity!



> On Dec 2, 2021, at 7:53 AM, Jay  wrote:
> 
> Hi all
> 
> Sorry I guess I didn’t explain the clients wants well enough
> 
> 1. 90-100kwh+ 48 vdc lithium battery 
> 2. 208 3 phase AC generator powering 48v nominal battery chargers.
> 208-3phase as that is the house/EE design voltage. 
> 3. AC generator because it’s back up if the inverters fail, so no DC 
> generator. 
> 4. Client doesn’t want any drop outs or have to reset clocks etc during 
> generator/inverter- charging/switchover.
> 5. Inverter size is not decided yet, probably 40-80kw. 
> 6.  Generator size isn’t specified yet, but given the loads 60-125kw 
> probably. 
> Size would be based on battery charging or max ac load which ever is larger. 
> 
> That leads me external chargers. 
> 
> I’m looking for large programmable battery chargers for lithium batteries 
> powered from a 208-3phase ac generator in the 60-125 kw size range. 
> 
> Thanks
> 
> Jay
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
>> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:56 AM, MDElectricSolar  
>> wrote:
>> 
>> Maybe a DC output generator, the Wildcat Maverick charges a 48v battery 
>> bank directly and has it’s own controls, independent from the inverter.
>> 
>> https://wildcatpowergen.com/pages/maverick 
>> 
>> 
>> Michael D Nelson
>> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
>> 707-684-0064 mobile
>> 707-884-1862 office
>> www.mdelectricsolar.com
>> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
>> 
>> 
>>> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>>> 
>>> 
>>> Hi Jay, 
>>> 
>>> Is the plan to feed DC current (from generator and grid) into the batteries 
>>> and keep the inverters as power source for loads?
>>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:30 AM Darryl Thayer >> > wrote:
>>> Jay I am confused as usual, what are the loads?  AC or DC?  How are you 
>>> charging the battery from the generator or how is the battery powering the 
>>> loads?   What is the desired current or the size of the generator?  sorry 
>>> if this I dumb question
>>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 2:23 PM Jay >> > wrote:
>>> I got a call from a colleague that is designing a very large roughly 90-100 
>>> kWh lithium battery at 48v. 
>>> 
>>> He’s looking for large AC chargers to charge this bank. The reason is total 
>>> elimination of switch over delay from inverter to generator and back. 
>>> 
>>> One technique is to use inverters for this, but pretty pricey. 
>>> 
>>> Any recommendations as to equipment, brands etc?  
>>> 
>>> It would be a 208 3 phase AC side powered by a generator. 
>>> 
>>> Thx 
>>> Jay
>>> 
>>> Peltz power. 
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
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>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org 
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[Jay]

Hi all

Sorry I guess I didn’t explain the clients wants well enough

1. 90-100kwh+ 48 vdc lithium battery 
2. 208 3 phase AC generator powering 48v nominal battery chargers.
208-3phase as that is the house/EE design voltage. 
3. AC generator because it’s back up if the inverters fail, so no DC generator. 
4. Client doesn’t want any drop outs or have to reset clocks etc during 
generator/inverter- charging/switchover.
5. Inverter size is not decided yet, probably 40-80kw. 
6.  Generator size isn’t specified yet, but given the loads 60-125kw probably. 
Size would be based on battery charging or max ac load which ever is larger. 

That leads me external chargers. 

I’m looking for large programmable battery chargers for lithium batteries 
powered from a 208-3phase ac generator in the 60-125 kw size range. 

Thanks

Jay






> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:56 AM, MDElectricSolar  wrote:
> 
> Maybe a DC output generator, the Wildcat Maverick charges a 48v battery bank 
> directly and has it’s own controls, independent from the inverter.
> 
> https://wildcatpowergen.com/pages/maverick
> 
> Michael D Nelson
> MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
> 707-684-0064 mobile
> 707-884-1862 office
> www.mdelectricsolar.com
> www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar
> 
> 
>>> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
>>> 
>> 
>> Hi Jay, 
>> 
>> Is the plan to feed DC current (from generator and grid) into the batteries 
>> and keep the inverters as power source for loads?
>> 
>>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:30 AM Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>>> Jay I am confused as usual, what are the loads?  AC or DC?  How are you 
>>> charging the battery from the generator or how is the battery powering the 
>>> loads?   What is the desired current or the size of the generator?  sorry 
>>> if this I dumb question
>>> 
 On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 2:23 PM Jay  wrote:
 I got a call from a colleague that is designing a very large roughly 
 90-100 kWh lithium battery at 48v. 
 
 He’s looking for large AC chargers to charge this bank. The reason is 
 total elimination of switch over delay from inverter to generator and 
 back. 
 
 One technique is to use inverters for this, but pretty pricey. 
 
 Any recommendations as to equipment, brands etc?  
 
 It would be a 208 3 phase AC side powered by a generator. 
 
 Thx 
 Jay
 
 Peltz power. 
 ___
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>> 
>> 
>> -- 
>> 
>> 
>> 
>> Mac Lewis
>> 
>> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
>> 
>> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[MDElectricSolar]

Maybe a DC output generator, the Wildcat Maverick charges a 48v battery bank 
directly and has it’s own controls, independent from the inverter.

https://wildcatpowergen.com/pages/maverick

Michael D Nelson
MD Electric & Solar, Inc.
707-684-0064 mobile
707-884-1862 office
www.mdelectricsolar.com
www.facebook.com/mdelectricandsolar


> On Dec 2, 2021, at 6:27 AM, Mac Lewis  wrote:
> 
> 
> Hi Jay, 
> 
> Is the plan to feed DC current (from generator and grid) into the batteries 
> and keep the inverters as power source for loads?
> 
>> On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:30 AM Darryl Thayer  wrote:
>> Jay I am confused as usual, what are the loads?  AC or DC?  How are you 
>> charging the battery from the generator or how is the battery powering the 
>> loads?   What is the desired current or the size of the generator?  sorry if 
>> this I dumb question
>> 
>>> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 2:23 PM Jay  wrote:
>>> I got a call from a colleague that is designing a very large roughly 90-100 
>>> kWh lithium battery at 48v. 
>>> 
>>> He’s looking for large AC chargers to charge this bank. The reason is total 
>>> elimination of switch over delay from inverter to generator and back. 
>>> 
>>> One technique is to use inverters for this, but pretty pricey. 
>>> 
>>> Any recommendations as to equipment, brands etc?  
>>> 
>>> It would be a 208 3 phase AC side powered by a generator. 
>>> 
>>> Thx 
>>> Jay
>>> 
>>> Peltz power. 
>>> ___
>>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>> 
>>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>> 
>>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>> 
>>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
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>>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the 
>>> other:
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>> ___
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> 
> 
> -- 
> 
> 
> 
> Mac Lewis
> 
> "Yo solo sé que no sé nada." -Sócrates
> 
> ___
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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[Mac Lewis]

Hi Jay,

Is the plan to feed DC current (from generator and grid) into the batteries
and keep the inverters as power source for loads?

On Thu, Dec 2, 2021 at 6:30 AM Darryl Thayer  wrote:

> Jay I am confused as usual, what are the loads?  AC or DC?  How are you
> charging the battery from the generator or how is the battery powering the
> loads?   What is the desired current or the size of the generator?  sorry
> if this I dumb question
>
> On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 2:23 PM Jay  wrote:
>
>> I got a call from a colleague that is designing a very large roughly
>> 90-100 kWh lithium battery at 48v.
>>
>> He’s looking for large AC chargers to charge this bank. The reason is
>> total elimination of switch over delay from inverter to generator and back.
>>
>> One technique is to use inverters for this, but pretty pricey.
>>
>> Any recommendations as to equipment, brands etc?
>>
>> It would be a 208 3 phase AC side powered by a generator.
>>
>> Thx
>> Jay
>>
>> Peltz power.
>> ___
>> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>>
>> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>>
>> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>>
>> Change listserver email address & settings:
>> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>>
>> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
>> other:
>> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
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Mac Lewis

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Re: [RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[Darryl Thayer]

Jay I am confused as usual, what are the loads?  AC or DC?  How are you
charging the battery from the generator or how is the battery powering the
loads?   What is the desired current or the size of the generator?  sorry
if this I dumb question

On Wed, Dec 1, 2021 at 2:23 PM Jay  wrote:

> I got a call from a colleague that is designing a very large roughly
> 90-100 kWh lithium battery at 48v.
>
> He’s looking for large AC chargers to charge this bank. The reason is
> total elimination of switch over delay from inverter to generator and back.
>
> One technique is to use inverters for this, but pretty pricey.
>
> Any recommendations as to equipment, brands etc?
>
> It would be a 208 3 phase AC side powered by a generator.
>
> Thx
> Jay
>
> Peltz power.
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[RE-wrenches] Large lithium chargers

[Jay]

I got a call from a colleague that is designing a very large roughly 90-100 kWh 
lithium battery at 48v. 

He’s looking for large AC chargers to charge this bank. The reason is total 
elimination of switch over delay from inverter to generator and back. 

One technique is to use inverters for this, but pretty pricey. 

Any recommendations as to equipment, brands etc?  

It would be a 208 3 phase AC side powered by a generator. 

Thx 
Jay

Peltz power. 
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