Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[Philip Boutelle]

NREL’s free SAM tool can model tiered & TOU rates with PV generation:
https://sam.nrel.gov/

It’s a little clunky to use on every project, but everything can be
exported to spreadsheets to dial it in further/work outside of the tool.
Consumption data can also be input into the tool.

--

*Phil Boutelle,* *PE, CEM, NABCEP Emeritus* |   Energy Engineer
philboute...@gmail.com   |   M (831) 359-5268


On Mon, May 3, 2021 at 7:42 PM William Miller 
wrote:

> Rebekah:
>
>
>
> Well I spent way too much time thinking about and trying to model these
> PG rates in Excel.  Here is what I came up with:
>
>
>
>
>
> The higher the value, the better the rate plan for selling energy.  As you
> can see, there is not much difference between all of these options.  About
> a week ago I wrote all of my clients and warned them not to let the big,
> bad PG force them into new rates, based on a cursory look at the
> tariffs.  Now I feel obligated to write all of them again to clarify that,
> as far as I can tell, it doesn’t make all that much difference.  It’s a
> little embarrassing.
>
>
>
> This chart does not take into account the effects of consumption.  Unless
> you have an energy monitor, you have no way of factoring in consumption.  I
> happen to have an energy monitor <http://egauge15947.egaug.es/58C32/> and
> when I looked at the data it provide, it showed that the E-1 rate I have
> did offset my consumption efficiently.  PG has an online rate comparison
> tool and it too indicated that E-1 is best for our home.  Of course you
> can’t use E-1 unless you are grandfathered and opted out of the rate change.
>
>
>
> The table above is based on my best efforts to build a spreadsheet for
> each of these rate structures that models them accurately.  I can’t promise
> I got it all correct, but I surely tried.  Modeling these rate plans is a
> bit of a mind-bender due to the number of variables each of these rates
> incorporates and then trying to keep them all straight in my head.  For my
> limited resources this was some heavy mental gymnastics.
>
>
>
> I want to thank Antony Tersol for the illumination he provided on how to
> plug the baseline rates into the TOU modeling.
>
>
>
> I will collate the info I have on this subject and put it on the Case
> Studies section of our web site later tonight if anyone is curious. I will
> include the spreadsheets.  Any feedback is welcome.
>
>
>
> Thanks everyone for the interest and input.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
>
> *From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
> Behalf Of *Rebekah Hren
> *Sent:* Monday, May 3, 2021 7:02 AM
> *To:* offgridso...@sti.net; RE-wrenches
> *Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question
>
>
>
> Hi William,
>
> Thanks for posting the links to your studies. With CA NEM. 2.0 customers
> forced into TOU rate schedule, I have been wondering if you have done an
> analysis on whether TOU-C (peak 4-9 everyday) or TOU-D (peak 5-8 weekdays)
> is a better pair with solar?
>
>
>
>
> https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-rates-work/Residential-Rates-Plan-Pricing.pdf
>
>
>
> I am leaning towards TOU-D but haven't done an in-depth analysis. Clearly
> there isn't going to be much solar generation during peak hours regardless.
>
>
>
> Thanks!
>
> Rebekah
>
> Tel: 336.266.8800
>
>
>
>
>
> On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 9:54 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
> offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:
>
> You guy's all know that utility is not going to get easier to understand.
> It is going the other way and has been! Some of the AG solar guy's below me
> in the greatest growing region in the world are probably the best. I can
> dig up some of their names from the AG shows on radio KMJ in Fresno. The 5
> am AG show has alot of solar on it and you can stream it.
>
> I am away for a few days but will post something when I get back. Here is
> a link to KMJ and to the AG solar company.
>
> https://www.kmjnow.com/on-air-schedule/
>
> https://pickettsolar.com/industries/agribusiness/
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*
>
> *"we go where powerlines don't"*
>
> *http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*
>
> *e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net *
>
> *text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Sun, 2 May 2021 07:15:55 -0700, frenergy  wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> That's the easy answer but this all gets really deep into
> weeds as unless you're a PG 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[William Miller]

Rebekah:



Well I spent way too much time thinking about and trying to model these
PG rates in Excel.  Here is what I came up with:





The higher the value, the better the rate plan for selling energy.  As you
can see, there is not much difference between all of these options.  About
a week ago I wrote all of my clients and warned them not to let the big,
bad PG force them into new rates, based on a cursory look at the
tariffs.  Now I feel obligated to write all of them again to clarify that,
as far as I can tell, it doesn’t make all that much difference.  It’s a
little embarrassing.



This chart does not take into account the effects of consumption.  Unless
you have an energy monitor, you have no way of factoring in consumption.  I
happen to have an energy monitor <http://egauge15947.egaug.es/58C32/> and
when I looked at the data it provide, it showed that the E-1 rate I have
did offset my consumption efficiently.  PG has an online rate comparison
tool and it too indicated that E-1 is best for our home.  Of course you
can’t use E-1 unless you are grandfathered and opted out of the rate change.



The table above is based on my best efforts to build a spreadsheet for each
of these rate structures that models them accurately.  I can’t promise I
got it all correct, but I surely tried.  Modeling these rate plans is a bit
of a mind-bender due to the number of variables each of these rates
incorporates and then trying to keep them all straight in my head.  For my
limited resources this was some heavy mental gymnastics.



I want to thank Antony Tersol for the illumination he provided on how to
plug the baseline rates into the TOU modeling.



I will collate the info I have on this subject and put it on the Case
Studies section of our web site later tonight if anyone is curious. I will
include the spreadsheets.  Any feedback is welcome.



Thanks everyone for the interest and input.



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985





*From:* RE-wrenches [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On
Behalf Of *Rebekah Hren
*Sent:* Monday, May 3, 2021 7:02 AM
*To:* offgridso...@sti.net; RE-wrenches
*Subject:* Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question



Hi William,

Thanks for posting the links to your studies. With CA NEM. 2.0 customers
forced into TOU rate schedule, I have been wondering if you have done an
analysis on whether TOU-C (peak 4-9 everyday) or TOU-D (peak 5-8 weekdays)
is a better pair with solar?



https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-rates-work/Residential-Rates-Plan-Pricing.pdf



I am leaning towards TOU-D but haven't done an in-depth analysis. Clearly
there isn't going to be much solar generation during peak hours regardless.



Thanks!

Rebekah

Tel: 336.266.8800





On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 9:54 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

You guy's all know that utility is not going to get easier to understand.
It is going the other way and has been! Some of the AG solar guy's below me
in the greatest growing region in the world are probably the best. I can
dig up some of their names from the AG shows on radio KMJ in Fresno. The 5
am AG show has alot of solar on it and you can stream it.

I am away for a few days but will post something when I get back. Here is a
link to KMJ and to the AG solar company.

https://www.kmjnow.com/on-air-schedule/

https://pickettsolar.com/industries/agribusiness/



*Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar*

*"we go where powerlines don't"*

*http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ <http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/>*

*e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net *

*text 209 813 0060*

On Sun, 2 May 2021 07:15:55 -0700, frenergy  wrote:

Jerry,

That's the easy answer but this all gets really deep into weeds
as unless you're a PG smart meter (and we *really* trust them), you don't
know when that E-6 baseline is crossed to know when you're getting or
paying the higher rate.  There's 2 things going on, baseline and
time-of-use.  Customer usage, cloudy days plus other variables make a
precise calculation impossible.  A customer might enter the
higher-than-baseline rate halfway into the month and then low consumption
and sunny days pulls the customer back below baseline, paying the lower
rate.

So many headaches, William, I've tried to figure all this out
on paper but have relied more on raw experience of what works to zero-out
one's bill which with E6 can easily happen with less KWhrs produced than
consumed.

I would love to talk to wrenches who can help me with decent
rates for AG pumping and the AG-solar destroyer: demand charges.

Bill

Feather River Solar Electric

Bill Battagin, Owner

4291 Nelson St.

Taylorsville, CA 95983

530.284.7849

CA Lic 874049

www.frenergy.net

On 5/1/2021 3:16 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:

Wrenches

Currently with PG , you buy and sell at what ever rate you are on, Pea

Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[Rebekah Hren]

Hi William,
Thanks for posting the links to your studies. With CA NEM. 2.0 customers
forced into TOU rate schedule, I have been wondering if you have done an
analysis on whether TOU-C (peak 4-9 everyday) or TOU-D (peak 5-8 weekdays)
is a better pair with solar?

https://www.pge.com/pge_global/common/pdfs/rate-plans/how-rates-work/Residential-Rates-Plan-Pricing.pdf

I am leaning towards TOU-D but haven't done an in-depth analysis. Clearly
there isn't going to be much solar generation during peak hours regardless.

Thanks!
Rebekah
Tel: 336.266.8800



On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 9:54 AM Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar <
offgridso...@sti.net> wrote:

> You guy's all know that utility is not going to get easier to understand.
> It is going the other way and has been! Some of the AG solar guy's below me
> in the greatest growing region in the world are probably the best. I can
> dig up some of their names from the AG shows on radio KMJ in Fresno. The 5
> am AG show has alot of solar on it and you can stream it.
>
> I am away for a few days but will post something when I get back. Here is
> a link to KMJ and to the AG solar company.
>
> https://www.kmjnow.com/on-air-schedule/
>
> https://pickettsolar.com/industries/agribusiness/
>
>
>
> *Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar
> "we go where powerlines don't"
> http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/ 
> e-mail  offgridso...@sti.net 
> text 209 813 0060*
>
> On Sun, 2 May 2021 07:15:55 -0700, frenergy  wrote:
>
> Jerry,
>
> That's the easy answer but this all gets really deep into
> weeds as unless you're a PG smart meter (and we *really* trust them),
> you don't know when that E-6 baseline is crossed to know when you're
> getting or paying the higher rate.  There's 2 things going on, baseline and
> time-of-use.  Customer usage, cloudy days plus other variables make a
> precise calculation impossible.  A customer might enter the
> higher-than-baseline rate halfway into the month and then low consumption
> and sunny days pulls the customer back below baseline, paying the lower
> rate.
>
> So many headaches, William, I've tried to figure all this out
> on paper but have relied more on raw experience of what works to zero-out
> one's bill which with E6 can easily happen with less KWhrs produced than
> consumed.
>
> I would love to talk to wrenches who can help me with decent
> rates for AG pumping and the AG-solar destroyer: demand charges.
>
> Bill
>
> Feather River Solar Electric
> Bill Battagin, Owner
> 4291 Nelson St.
> Taylorsville, CA 95983
> 530.284.7849
> CA Lic 874049www.frenergy.net
>
> On 5/1/2021 3:16 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
> Wrenches
> Currently with PG , you buy and sell at what ever rate you are on, Peak
> = peak, off peak =off peak,
>
> On Sat, May 1, 2021, 3:02 PM William Miller 
> wrote:
>
> Friends:
>
>
>
> After years of not quite understanding the intricacies of the newer, more
> complicated utility rate schedules I have spent the last 72 hours diving
> deeply into the rabbit hole.  I have one question I need answered.  Maybe
> someone has the answer.
>
>
>
> If you are on a tiered electric utility rate I know you pay more for
> energy after you exceed certain daily amounts—the baseline.  I am clear
> that if you avoid paying the higher rates, the value of the energy you
> generate is equal to the money you save.  However if you ratchet your daily
> usage below zero and are net-exporting for part of a day, at what value are
> you credited in an NEM contract?
>
>
>
> Is it:  You get the baseline rate no matter how much energy you export.
>
>
>
> Or is it:  After you export more than the baseline rate, you start getting
> credited at the over-baseline rate.
>
>
>
> Or is it something different altogether.
>
>
>
> If anyone knows the answer to this arcane question I would be very
> grateful to learn it.  It may vary from utility to utility or plan to
> plan.  PG E-6 is the tiered rate I most commonly encounter.
>
>
>
> If any of you are particularly masochistic you can review some work I have
> published on the subject here:
>
>
> https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/28_UtilityRates/UtilityRates.html
>
>
>
> This is an intricate subject and I believe anyone working in grid-tied
> solar should have at least a passing familiarity with the topic.  It
> affects the realized benefits of investing in grid-tied solar.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for being the great group of friends that you are.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
> On 5/1/2021 12:46 PM, William Miller wrote:
>
>
>
>
> 
>  Virus-free.
> www.avast.com
> 
>
> ___
> 

Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[Antony Tersol]

The combination of tiers and TOU rates isn't as complicated as it could be,
because the rate bumps from being in a higher tier or between off-peak,
part-peak and peak are independent.

The increase between tiers is the same for all the time periods, and the
increase between periods is the same for all tiers.  Using E6 as an example:

0.49602 - 0.42018 = 0.07584 summer peak tier difference
0.37758 - 0.30174 = 0.07584 summer part-peak tier difference
etc.

0.49602 - 0.37758 = 0.11844 peak to part-peak difference at high tier
0.42018 - 0.30174 = 0.11844 peak to part-peak difference at base tier
etc.

This actually keeps the calculations simple.  One passes into the higher
tier when the total (no matter the time period) surpasses baseline, and one
gets the TOU increases based on period no matter what tier.

Since the utility calculates based on monthly totals, they just need to
have the net total to calculate the tier contributions, and the net total
in each time period to calculate the TOU components.


Antony Tersol



On Sun, May 2, 2021 at 5:20 PM Antony Tersol  wrote:

> PGE:  After you export more than the baseline rate, you start getting
> credited at the over-baseline rate.
>
> When there were multiple tiers, you got credited for whatever tier the
> production was in.
> i.e. baseline rate for the kWh's up to baseline amount, tier 1 rate for
> next kWh's up to tier 1 limit, etc.
>
> At one time there were 5 tiers, then 4, then 3, now 2.
>
>
> Antony Tersol
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[Antony Tersol]

PGE:  After you export more than the baseline rate, you start getting
credited at the over-baseline rate.

When there were multiple tiers, you got credited for whatever tier the
production was in.
i.e. baseline rate for the kWh's up to baseline amount, tier 1 rate for
next kWh's up to tier 1 limit, etc.

At one time there were 5 tiers, then 4, then 3, now 2.


Antony Tersol
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[Dave Angelini Offgrid Solar]

You guy's all know that utility is not going to get easier to
understand. It is going the other way and has been! Some of the AG solar
guy's below me in the greatest growing region in the world are probably the
best. I can dig up some of their names from the AG shows on radio KMJ in
Fresno. The 5 am AG show has alot of solar on it and you can stream it. 

I
am away for a few days but will post something when I get back. Here is a
link to KMJ and to the AG solar company.


https://www.kmjnow.com/on-air-schedule/


https://pickettsolar.com/industries/agribusiness/ 

Dave Angelini Offgrid
Solar
"we go where powerlines don't"
http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[1]
e-mail offgridso...@sti.net [2]
text 209 813 0060

On Sun, 2 May 2021
07:15:55 -0700, frenergy  wrote:

Jerry, 

 That's the easy answer but
this all gets really deep into weeds as unless you're a PG smart meter
(and we _really_ trust them), you don't know when that E-6 baseline is
crossed to know when you're getting or paying the higher rate. There's 2
things going on, baseline and time-of-use. Customer usage, cloudy days plus
other variables make a precise calculation impossible. A customer might
enter the higher-than-baseline rate halfway into the month and then low
consumption and sunny days pulls the customer back below baseline, paying
the lower rate. 

 So many headaches, William, I've tried to figure all
this out on paper but have relied more on raw experience of what works to
zero-out one's bill which with E6 can easily happen with less KWhrs
produced than consumed. 

 I would love to talk to wrenches who can help me
with decent rates for AG pumping and the AG-solar destroyer: demand
charges. 

Bill  
Feather River Solar Electric 
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291
Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic
874049
www.frenergy.net [3]
 On 5/1/2021 3:16 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
Wrenches Currently with PG">Friends: 

After years of not quite
understanding the intricacies of the newer, more complicated utility rate
schedules I have spent the last 72 hours diving deeply into the rabbit
hole. I have one question I need answered. Maybe someone has the answer.


If you are on a tiered electric utility rate I know you pay more for
energy after you exceed certain daily amounts--the baseline. I am clear
that if you avoid paying the higher rates, the value of the energy you
generate is equal to the money you save. However if you ratchet your daily
usage below zero and are net-exporting for part of a day, at what value are
you credited in an NEM contract? 

Is it: You get the baseline rate no
matter how much energy you export. 

Or is it: After you export more than
the baseline rate, you start getting credited at the over-baseline rate.


Or is it something different altogether. 

If anyone knows the answer to
this arcane question I would be very grateful to learn it. It may vary from
utility to utility or plan to plan. PG">  

If any of you are particularly
masochistic you can review some work I have published on the subject here:


https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/28_UtilityRates/UtilityRates.html
[5] 

This is an intricate subject and I believe anyone working in
grid-tied solar should have at least a passing familiarity with the topic.
It affects the realized benefits of investing in grid-tied solar. 

Thanks
again for being the great group of friends that you are. 

William Miller


Miller Solar 

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422 

805-438-5600


www.millersolar.com [6] 

CA Lic. 773985 On 5/1/2021 12:46 PM, William
Miller wrote:   

 [7]
Virus-free. www.avast.com [8]

 


Links:
--
[1] http://members.sti.net/offgridsolar/
[2]
mailto:offgridso...@sti.net
[3] http://www.frenergy.net
[4]
mailto:will...@millersolar.com
[5]
https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/28_UtilityRates/UtilityRates.html
[6]
http://www.millersolar.com/
[7]
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient_term=icon
[8]
https://www.avast.com/sig-email?utm_medium=email_source=link_campaign=sig-email_content=emailclient_term=link
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[frenergy]

Jerry,

            That's the easy answer but this all gets really deep into 
weeds as unless you're a PG smart meter (and we /really/ trust them), 
you don't know when that E-6 baseline is crossed to know when you're 
getting or paying the higher rate.  There's 2 things going on, baseline 
and time-of-use.  Customer usage, cloudy days plus other variables make 
a precise calculation impossible. A customer might enter the 
higher-than-baseline rate halfway into the month and then low 
consumption and sunny days pulls the customer back below baseline, 
paying the lower rate.


            So many headaches, William, I've tried to figure all this 
out on paper but have relied more on raw experience of what works to 
zero-out one's bill which with E6 can easily happen with less KWhrs 
produced than consumed.


            I would love to talk to wrenches who can help me with 
decent rates for AG pumping and the AG-solar destroyer: demand charges.


Bill

Feather River Solar Electric
Bill Battagin, Owner
4291 Nelson St.
Taylorsville, CA 95983
530.284.7849
CA Lic 874049
www.frenergy.net

On 5/1/2021 3:16 PM, Jerry Shafer wrote:
Wrenches
Currently with PG , you buy and sell at what ever rate you are on, 
Peak = peak, off peak =off peak,


On Sat, May 1, 2021, 3:02 PM William Miller > wrote:


Friends:

After years of not quite understanding the intricacies of the newer, 
more complicated utility rate schedules I have spent the last 72 hours 
diving deeply into the rabbit hole.  I have one question I need 
answered.  Maybe someone has the answer.


If you are on a tiered electric utility rate I know you pay more for 
energy after you exceed certain daily amounts—the baseline. I am clear 
that if you avoid paying the higher rates, the value of the energy you 
generate is equal to the money you save. However if you ratchet your 
daily usage below zero and are net-exporting for part of a day, at what 
value are you credited in an NEM contract?


Is it:  You get the baseline rate no matter how much energy you export.

Or is it:  After you export more than the baseline rate, you start 
getting credited at the over-baseline rate.


Or is it something different altogether.

If anyone knows the answer to this arcane question I would be very 
grateful to learn it.  It may vary from utility to utility or plan to 
plan.  PG E-6 is the tiered rate I most commonly encounter.


If any of you are particularly masochistic you can review some work I 
have published on the subject here:


https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/28_UtilityRates/UtilityRates.html 



This is an intricate subject and I believe anyone working in grid-tied 
solar should have at least a passing familiarity with the topic.  It 
affects the realized benefits of investing in grid-tied solar.


Thanks again for being the great group of friends that you are.

William Miller

Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com 

CA Lic. 773985

On 5/1/2021 12:46 PM, William Miller wrote:



--
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

Re: [RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[Jerry Shafer]

Wrenches
Currently with PG , you buy and sell at what ever rate you are on, Peak =
peak, off peak =off peak,

On Sat, May 1, 2021, 3:02 PM William Miller  wrote:

> Friends:
>
>
>
> After years of not quite understanding the intricacies of the newer, more
> complicated utility rate schedules I have spent the last 72 hours diving
> deeply into the rabbit hole.  I have one question I need answered.  Maybe
> someone has the answer.
>
>
>
> If you are on a tiered electric utility rate I know you pay more for
> energy after you exceed certain daily amounts—the baseline.  I am clear
> that if you avoid paying the higher rates, the value of the energy you
> generate is equal to the money you save.  However if you ratchet your daily
> usage below zero and are net-exporting for part of a day, at what value are
> you credited in an NEM contract?
>
>
>
> Is it:  You get the baseline rate no matter how much energy you export.
>
>
>
> Or is it:  After you export more than the baseline rate, you start getting
> credited at the over-baseline rate.
>
>
>
> Or is it something different altogether.
>
>
>
> If anyone knows the answer to this arcane question I would be very
> grateful to learn it.  It may vary from utility to utility or plan to
> plan.  PG E-6 is the tiered rate I most commonly encounter.
>
>
>
> If any of you are particularly masochistic you can review some work I have
> published on the subject here:
>
>
> https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/28_UtilityRates/UtilityRates.html
>
>
>
> This is an intricate subject and I believe anyone working in grid-tied
> solar should have at least a passing familiarity with the topic.  It
> affects the realized benefits of investing in grid-tied solar.
>
>
>
> Thanks again for being the great group of friends that you are.
>
>
>
> William Miller
>
>
>
> Miller Solar
>
> 17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422
>
> 805-438-5600
>
> www.millersolar.com
>
> CA Lic. 773985
>
>
>
>
> ___
> List sponsored by Redwood Alliance
>
> Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org
>
> List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org
>
> Change listserver email address & settings:
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the
> other:
> https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
> http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org
>
> List rules & etiquette:
> http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm
>
> Check out or update participant bios:
> http://www.members.re-wrenches.org
>
>
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org

[RE-wrenches] Utitlity Rate question

[William Miller]

Friends:



After years of not quite understanding the intricacies of the newer, more
complicated utility rate schedules I have spent the last 72 hours diving
deeply into the rabbit hole.  I have one question I need answered.  Maybe
someone has the answer.



If you are on a tiered electric utility rate I know you pay more for energy
after you exceed certain daily amounts—the baseline.  I am clear that if
you avoid paying the higher rates, the value of the energy you generate is
equal to the money you save.  However if you ratchet your daily usage below
zero and are net-exporting for part of a day, at what value are you
credited in an NEM contract?



Is it:  You get the baseline rate no matter how much energy you export.



Or is it:  After you export more than the baseline rate, you start getting
credited at the over-baseline rate.



Or is it something different altogether.



If anyone knows the answer to this arcane question I would be very grateful
to learn it.  It may vary from utility to utility or plan to plan.  PG
E-6 is the tiered rate I most commonly encounter.



If any of you are particularly masochistic you can review some work I have
published on the subject here:

https://millersolar.com/MillerSolar/case_studies/28_UtilityRates/UtilityRates.html



This is an intricate subject and I believe anyone working in grid-tied
solar should have at least a passing familiarity with the topic.  It
affects the realized benefits of investing in grid-tied solar.



Thanks again for being the great group of friends that you are.



William Miller



Miller Solar

17395 Oak Road, Atascadero, CA 93422

805-438-5600

www.millersolar.com

CA Lic. 773985
___
List sponsored by Redwood Alliance

Pay optional member dues here: http://re-wrenches.org

List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org

Change listserver email address & settings:
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

There are two list archives for searching. When one doesn't work, try the other:
https://www.mail-archive.com/re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org/
http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org

List rules & etiquette:
http://www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm

Check out or update participant bios:
http://www.members.re-wrenches.org