Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied
The Copflex I just ordered from Cobra is RHH, RHW rated 90degC with a 532 strand count for a 4/0. As I stated before, I've used this medium strand count cable before and found it to be the optimum combination of flexibility vs. working in regular connections without any special adapters. I too have always wondered about the MTW cable listing of some other cables. The problem I see now with the Copflex, though, is that it doesn't have a specific mention of Acid resistance, but since none of the cables listed in NEC table 310.13 mention acid resistance, I'm muddling forward. Forget what I said before about this being the perfect battery cable. Its still the best choice of what's available IMHO. Once you strip and make a connection with this medium strand count cable, you won't want to go back to connections with the little fairy hairs of copper in the X-flex. R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 29, 2010, at 7:03 PM, Glenn Burt wrote: Hi Ray, I have for my last 2 battery jobs used the Cobra X-Flex in 2/0 size with MTW rating. At the battery end I have found the Thomas Betts 54163-TB lugs, available at my local Grainger store to be a good match both mechanically and specification wise (also the correct hole size for M8 terminals in my Concorde AGM’s). On the usual electrical equipment end, I use a Greaves Shoo-Pin PT131FX20 as the appropriate reducer to a THHN stranding #2/0 size (available through our local Graybar store, drop shipped to my office). Because I am using a Sunny Island, of course nothing #2 fits… so I have two Polaris style connectors in the trough below the SI where I switch from the Shoo-Pins to four #1 THHN to go up into the SI batt terminals (two conductors per pole). In fact, I am wrapping up one of these installs right now. Don’t know if this helps, -Glenn -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 11:58 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied HI All; I have struggled for years to get the right battery cable; in the old, old days we used welding cable, which was better than THHN, but not with the AHJs. Then we used a SAE battery cable with 532 strands that was ideal, but not UL listed. Next we used Cobra X flex, but at over 2000 strands, we had the problem it wasn't rated for some of the mechanical lugs and breakers. (too fine a stranding) Now I've found what I think is the perfect cable: Cobra Cop Flex, class I. http://cobrawire.com/copflex/class_i.php It's UL listed RHH, RHW , but is coarser stranded 532 strands, but not as coarse as standard THHN (19 strands). What do you guys think? RHH, RHW meets the code, with the coarser stranding not being a problem with regular lugs, but still way more flexible than THHN. We're saved right? R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied
I recently worked with a telecom specification that required lead plated copper lugs on the battery side and I have been using the same on my own systems for some time now. How important is it to use lead plated lugs on the battery side? Is tin plated copper just as good so long as you coat well with grease etc.? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 http://www.berkeleysolar.com/ www.berkeleysolar.com _ From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:03 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied Hi Ray, I have for my last 2 battery jobs used the Cobra X-Flex in 2/0 size with MTW rating. At the battery end I have found the Thomas Betts 54163-TB lugs, available at my local Grainger store to be a good match both mechanically and specification wise (also the correct hole size for M8 terminals in my Concorde AGM's). On the usual electrical equipment end, I use a Greaves Shoo-Pin PT131FX20 as the appropriate reducer to a THHN stranding #2/0 size (available through our local Graybar store, drop shipped to my office). Because I am using a Sunny Island, of course nothing #2 fits. so I have two Polaris style connectors in the trough below the SI where I switch from the Shoo-Pins to four #1 THHN to go up into the SI batt terminals (two conductors per pole). In fact, I am wrapping up one of these installs right now. Don't know if this helps, -Glenn ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied
HI Mark; Where do you get the lead plated lugs? We used to special order tin plated lugs from Del City, but they quit carrying them. I found that the grease or vaseline coating was the most important issue, though. Tin plated lugs would corrode just like the unplated ones, except they first would lose their plating. Lead plated lugs might just be the ticket, except you would still have to keep the corrosion from creeping up under the heat shrink to the copper cable. I've had cables with corrosion going up the cable strands for over 6 past the lug. And yes we use heat shrink with the sealing adhesive inside; the corrosion just travels right under it along the surface of the metal. I actually found electrical tape seals better, it just doesn't look near as good, so we still use heat shrink, and coat over the heat shrink with the vaseline (or grease). R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Mark Frye wrote: I recently worked with a telecom specification that required lead plated copper lugs on the battery side and I have been using the same on my own systems for some time now. How important is it to use lead plated lugs on the battery side? Is tin plated copper just as good so long as you coat well with grease etc.? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:03 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied Hi Ray, I have for my last 2 battery jobs used the Cobra X-Flex in 2/0 size with MTW rating. At the battery end I have found the Thomas Betts 54163-TB lugs, available at my local Grainger store to be a good match both mechanically and specification wise (also the correct hole size for M8 terminals in my Concorde AGM’s). On the usual electrical equipment end, I use a Greaves Shoo-Pin PT131FX20 as the appropriate reducer to a THHN stranding #2/0 size (available through our local Graybar store, drop shipped to my office). Because I am using a Sunny Island, of course nothing #2 fits… so I have two Polaris style connectors in the trough below the SI where I switch from the Shoo-Pins to four #1 THHN to go up into the SI batt terminals (two conductors per pole). In fact, I am wrapping up one of these installs right now. Don’t know if this helps, -Glenn ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied
We use the “inner melt” type of heat shrink and have had few problems with it compared to the standard heat shrink. As far as Lead plated lugs, I am not sure I see much advantage to them. Also as far as coatings go, most Vaseline and other standard grease type are way too temperature sensitive, and in hot weather they just melt away – and they are also great dust/bug/dirt gatherers. 3M and others make a spray on coating that hardens somewhat that we have found to be much better. From the 3M website “Scotch® Insulating Sprays 1601 and 1602 are electrical-grade, fast-drying enamel sealers and insulators in pressurized cans. Full Description » These sealers protect surfaces against weather, moisture, corrosion, oil, alkalies and acids. The sprays can afford easy access to hard-to-reach spots. Use Insulating Spray sealers to spray over insulation on wire and cable splices, as a general-purpose sealer, or for touch-up insulation on motor windings and frames. Sprays are available in clear, red or black.” The local Home Depot carries it here, also some electrical distributors. From: R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:26 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied HI Mark; Where do you get the lead plated lugs? We used to special order tin plated lugs from Del City, but they quit carrying them. I found that the grease or vaseline coating was the most important issue, though. Tin plated lugs would corrode just like the unplated ones, except they first would lose their plating. Lead plated lugs might just be the ticket, except you would still have to keep the corrosion from creeping up under the heat shrink to the copper cable. I've had cables with corrosion going up the cable strands for over 6 past the lug. And yes we use heat shrink with the sealing adhesive inside; the corrosion just travels right under it along the surface of the metal. I actually found electrical tape seals better, it just doesn't look near as good, so we still use heat shrink, and coat over the heat shrink with the vaseline (or grease). R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Mark Frye wrote: I recently worked with a telecom specification that required lead plated copper lugs on the battery side and I have been using the same on my own systems for some time now. How important is it to use lead plated lugs on the battery side? Is tin plated copper just as good so long as you coat well with grease etc.? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:03 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied Hi Ray, I have for my last 2 battery jobs used the Cobra X-Flex in 2/0 size with MTW rating. At the battery end I have found the Thomas Betts 54163-TB lugs, available at my local Grainger store to be a good match both mechanically and specification wise (also the correct hole size for M8 terminals in my Concorde AGM’s). On the usual electrical equipment end, I use a Greaves Shoo-Pin PT131FX20 as the appropriate reducer to a THHN stranding #2/0 size (available through our local Graybar store, drop shipped to my office). Because I am using a Sunny Island, of course nothing #2 fits… so I have two Polaris style connectors in the trough below the SI where I switch from the Shoo-Pins to four #1 THHN to go up into the SI batt terminals (two conductors per pole). In fact, I am wrapping up one of these installs right now. Don’t know if this helps, -Glenn ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org Northern Arizona Wind Sun - Electricity from the sun since 1979 Online Solar Store Free
Re: [RE-wrenches] NEC 690.74
The full wording from the installed battery cable: 4/0 AWG (107.2MM2) TYPE RHH OR RHW-2 2KY (-40C) PR II SUN RES FOR CT USE FT4/IEEE 1202 (UL) E18321 ---A.I.W.-D. --- CSA LL8825 RW90 EP 1 KY (-40C) EP/CPE TC FT4 --- EPR/CPE 2KY DIESLE LOCOMOTIVE CABLE P-07-KA090026-MSHA -Phil On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:40 PM, Philip Boutelle philboute...@gmail.comwrote: Phil- Thanks for the clarification; the dual listing makes sense, and I should have been more clear with my original wording to cover such dual ratings. I'll be back on-site on Wednesday, at which point I'll notate exactly what is on the wire.. but from the photos I have: ...OR RHW-2 2KV (-40C) PR II SUN RES FOR CT USE FT4/IEEE 1202... then elsewhere 2KV DIESEL LOCOMOTIVE CABLE P-... sorry about the cutoffs, it's all I can read in the photos. We got this cable from Independent Electric Supply, an electrical distributor with locations around California. -Phil On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 10:07 PM, Phil Undercuffler solarp...@gmail.comwrote: My recollection is that MTW is Machine Tool Wire, which indeed is not recognized by the NEC. It's an other category of wire intended to be used by manufacturers as internal wiring on products which they then get listed. So a wire with other ratings (such as USE, RHW, THHN) can also have a MTW rating and be fine, but a wire with only an MTW rating should not be used as field wiring by an installer. Also, do you have a source for RHW-2 battery cables? Or did you mean to say RHW, such as the typical Cobra X-Flex? Phil Undercuffler On Nov 29, 2010 7:41 PM, Philip Boutelle philboute...@gmail.com wrote: Found the thread, very helpful thanks Glenn. The current parallel discussion on Battery Cables REvisited is helpful too. The inspector (She, btw) is extremely thorough. Although she has asked for proof of purpose-specific listings on just about everything, it seems I misquoted her in my previous post; I looked up her earlier plan review comments, and here's her original quote (from when my plans said to use MTW for the battery cable): MTW is not NEC approved for use. I think that to her, if it isn't explicitly in the NEC then I can't use it (lists go from being partial inclusive to complete limiting). -Phil On Mon, Nov 29, 2010 at 6:03 PM, Glenn Burt glenn.b...@glbcc.com wrote: Hi Phil, I posted some information that is relevant back in March of 2009. It should be in the searchable archives… -Glenn Burt *From:* re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] *On Behalf Of *Philip Boutelle *Sent:* Monday, November 29, 2010 8:08 PM *To:* RE-wrenches *Subject:* [RE-wrenches] NEC 690.74 Wrenches, We have a string of batteries being inspected by a local AHJ. In plan-check comments, I was asked to ensure that the flexible cable was UL-listed, so we made sure of this when it came from the suppliers. We used 4/0 RHW-2. Now our inspector is asking if RHW-2 is fine-stranded in Article 400 of the NEC as required by 690.74? Article 400 doesn't explicitly define any cable types for use in battery systems, and the one general disclaimer is in 400.4: Types of flexible cords and flexible cables other than those listed in the table shall be the subject of special investigation. Has anyone had a similar request before? Anyone done a special investigation on cables, and have results to share? Any other thoughts? Thanks for any help, -Phil Real Goods Solar ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Internet-based monitoring -- including battery banks?
Hi Dan, A far as off grid system data monitoring, especially with Outback gear, I really like the products from Julie Haugh at greenHouse computers. http://www.greenhousepc.com/greenMonitor.html The technical support is incredible. The software is highly programmable, reliable, and keeps power consumption to a minimum. The data gathered can be viewed in spreadsheets, graphs, plots, mobile browser, email notifications, etc. without all the more flashy CO2 offset numbers like a fat spaniel readout. Out of all the products she offers, the gmMate which allows an Outback mate to be viewed on a computer off site, and the gmLite, which is a little data monitor that runs off the AUX output from an Outback FX/VFX are my favorite. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Nov 27, 2010, at 3:07 PM, Dan Fink wrote: In addition to the excellent information being posted here on monitoring grid-tied systems, I would be curious to know what products Wrenches have used and would recommend (or not) -- and why -- for web-based monitoring of systems that include battery banks, whether grid-tied islanding or off-grid. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC http://www.buckville.com/ IREC / ISPQ accredited Continuing Education Providers ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] World Business Guide Scam
Beware!! Here we go again the Euro business Guide Scam has morphed into the World Business Guide Scam. SEE BELOW Promising a FREE update in the e-mail, if you fill their form out and sign it they will charge you $1393 per year for three years for insertion. They are not in the Netherlands like they say they are in Romania, hidden behind aliases and re-directs. Conceivably they could ruin your credit. Beware!! Tom Duffy Systems Design Engineer Ladies and Gentlemen. In order to have your company inserted in the registry of World Businesses for 2011/2012 edition, please print, complete and submit the enclosed form (PDF file) to the following address: WORLD BUSINESS GUIDE P.O. BOX 3079 3502 GB, UTRECHT THE NETHERLANDS email: regis...@wbg2011now.com FAX: +31 (20) 203-1129 Updating is free of charge! If you are not the intended recipient, please submit an email to unsubscr...@wbg2011now.com Your request shall be dealt with accordingly. Message ID: Btajfef ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] World Business Guide Scam
Thanks Tom, Appreciate the heads up. Jamie The Office of Tom Duffy t...@thesolar.biz 11/30/2010 3:00 PM Beware!! Here we go again the Euro business Guide Scam has morphed into the World Business Guide Scam. SEE BELOW Promising a FREE update in the e-mail, if you fill their form out and sign it they will charge you $1393 per year for three years for insertion. They are not in the Netherlands like they say they are in Romania, hidden behind aliases and re-directs. Conceivably they could ruin your credit. Beware!! Tom Duffy Systems Design Engineer Ladies and Gentlemen. In order to have your company inserted in the registry of World Businesses for 2011/2012 edition, please print, complete and submit the enclosed form (PDF file) to the following address: WORLD BUSINESS GUIDE P.O. BOX 3079 3502 GB, UTRECHT THE NETHERLANDS email: regis...@wbg2011now.com FAX: +31 (20) 203-1129 Updating is free of charge! If you are not the intended recipient, please submit an email to unsubscr...@wbg2011now.com Your request shall be dealt with accordingly. Message ID: Btajfef brbrThis email and its attachments have been scanned by iConnection E-Mail Firewall for viruses, spam, and malicious content. brbrThe information transmitted in this email is intended only for the entity or person to which it is addressed and may contain confidential/privileged material. If you received this in error, please contact the sender and delete the material from any computer. Any review, retransmission, dissemination, or other use of this information by persons or entities other than the intended recipient is strictly prohibited. %^^% ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] World Business Guide Scam
Thank you Tom At 02:00 PM 11/30/2010, you wrote: Beware!! Here we go again the Euro business Guide Scam has morphed into the World Business Guide Scam. SEE BELOW Promising a FREE update in the e-mail, if you fill their form out and sign it they will charge you $1393 per year for three years for insertion. They are not in the Netherlands like they say they are in Romania, hidden behind aliases and re-directs. Conceivably they could ruin your credit. Beware!! Tom Duffy Systems Design Engineer Ladies and Gentlemen. In order to have your company inserted in the registry of World Businesses for 2011/2012 edition, please print, complete and submit the enclosed form (PDF file) to the following address: WORLD BUSINESS GUIDE P.O. BOX 3079 3502 GB, UTRECHT THE NETHERLANDS email: regis...@wbg2011now.com FAX: +31 (20) 203-1129 Updating is free of charge! If you are not the intended recipient, please submit an email to unsubscr...@wbg2011now.com Your request shall be dealt with accordingly. Message ID: Btajfef ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied
In the Navy we used to use DC-4, which was a silicone grease made by Dow Corning. It has a high melting point. Any of the similar silicone greases would probably work, but rather expensive in small quantities – but you only need a very thin coat. We used to use it to fill up RF transmitter coax connectors that were exposed to salt water – which was almost anyplace on the ship that was outside. http://www4.dowcorning.com/DataFiles/090007c8801e254b.pdf Available also from most electrical, or online at many places. Here in Arizona, EVERYTHING gets over 100 ;p Getting a good seal on the heat shrink is a problem, and there is no real good solution – even if you start with a good seal, sharp flexing can break it and all you need is a pinhole. From: R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 12:53 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied We use the same inner melt heat shrink, I think. You don't know you have a problem, until you cut that pretty heat shrink off 5 years later, and see what is happening underneath. The reason we use the vaseline, is that it remains conductive, so we can precoat the connectors before assembling and tightening. (Windy Dankoff taught us that one) I would see the 3M coating as something to spray on after, but I would be concerned about using it on contact surfaces before. I agree, heat can be an issue, so we use a high temp grease for applications were the temp might get over 100 deg F. Maybe a combination might work best: grease on the contact surfaces before, and 3M spray outside after? R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Warren Lauzon wrote: We use the “inner melt” type of heat shrink and have had few problems with it compared to the standard heat shrink. As far as Lead plated lugs, I am not sure I see much advantage to them. Also as far as coatings go, most Vaseline and other standard grease type are way too temperature sensitive, and in hot weather they just melt away – and they are also great dust/bug/dirt gatherers. 3M and others make a spray on coating that hardens somewhat that we have found to be much better. From the 3M website “Scotch® Insulating Sprays 1601 and 1602 are electrical-grade, fast-drying enamel sealers and insulators in pressurized cans. Full Description » These sealers protect surfaces against weather, moisture, corrosion, oil, alkalies and acids. The sprays can afford easy access to hard-to-reach spots. Use Insulating Spray sealers to spray over insulation on wire and cable splices, as a general-purpose sealer, or for touch-up insulation on motor windings and frames. Sprays are available in clear, red or black.” The local Home Depot carries it here, also some electrical distributors. From: R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:26 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied HI Mark; Where do you get the lead plated lugs? We used to special order tin plated lugs from Del City, but they quit carrying them. I found that the grease or vaseline coating was the most important issue, though. Tin plated lugs would corrode just like the unplated ones, except they first would lose their plating. Lead plated lugs might just be the ticket, except you would still have to keep the corrosion from creeping up under the heat shrink to the copper cable. I've had cables with corrosion going up the cable strands for over 6 past the lug. And yes we use heat shrink with the sealing adhesive inside; the corrosion just travels right under it along the surface of the metal. I actually found electrical tape seals better, it just doesn't look near as good, so we still use heat shrink, and coat over the heat shrink with the vaseline (or grease). R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Mark Frye wrote: I recently worked with a telecom specification that required lead plated copper lugs on the battery side and I have been using the same on my own systems for some time now. How important is it to use lead plated lugs on the battery side? Is tin plated copper just as good so long as you coat well with grease etc.? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:03 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied Hi Ray, I have for my last 2 battery jobs used the Cobra X-Flex in 2/0 size with MTW rating. At the battery end I have found the Thomas Betts 54163-TB lugs, available at my local Grainger store to be a good match both mechanically and
Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied
Vaseline will also flow into the cable strands, just like solder, coating and protecting all the internal strands. Almost too hot to touch is plenty hot enough to allow it to flow. Too hot and it burns. Jim Duncan -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org]on Behalf Of R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 1:54 PM To: RE-wrenches Subject: [Norton AntiSpam] Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied We use the same inner melt heat shrink, I think. You don't know you have a problem, until you cut that pretty heat shrink off 5 years later, and see what is happening underneath. The reason we use the vaseline, is that it remains conductive, so we can precoat the connectors before assembling and tightening. (Windy Dankoff taught us that one) I would see the 3M coating as something to spray on after, but I would be concerned about using it on contact surfaces before. I agree, heat can be an issue, so we use a high temp grease for applications were the temp might get over 100 deg F. Maybe a combination might work best: grease on the contact surfaces before, and 3M spray outside after? R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:47 AM, Warren Lauzon wrote: We use the “inner melt” type of heat shrink and have had few problems with it compared to the standard heat shrink. As far as Lead plated lugs, I am not sure I see much advantage to them. Also as far as coatings go, most Vaseline and other standard grease type are way too temperature sensitive, and in hot weather they just melt away – and they are also great dust/bug/dirt gatherers. 3M and others make a spray on coating that hardens somewhat that we have found to be much better. From the 3M website “Scotch® Insulating Sprays 1601 and 1602 are electrical-grade, fast-drying enamel sealers and insulators in pressurized cans. Full Description » These sealers protect surfaces against weather, moisture, corrosion, oil, alkalies and acids. The sprays can afford easy access to hard-to-reach spots. Use Insulating Spray sealers to spray over insulation on wire and cable splices, as a general-purpose sealer, or for touch-up insulation on motor windings and frames. Sprays are available in clear, red or black.” The local Home Depot carries it here, also some electrical distributors. From: R Ray Walters Sent: Tuesday, November 30, 2010 9:26 AM To: RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied HI Mark; Where do you get the lead plated lugs? We used to special order tin plated lugs from Del City, but they quit carrying them. I found that the grease or vaseline coating was the most important issue, though. Tin plated lugs would corrode just like the unplated ones, except they first would lose their plating. Lead plated lugs might just be the ticket, except you would still have to keep the corrosion from creeping up under the heat shrink to the copper cable. I've had cables with corrosion going up the cable strands for over 6 past the lug. And yes we use heat shrink with the sealing adhesive inside; the corrosion just travels right under it along the surface of the metal. I actually found electrical tape seals better, it just doesn't look near as good, so we still use heat shrink, and coat over the heat shrink with the vaseline (or grease). R. Walters r...@solarray.com Solar Engineer On Nov 30, 2010, at 9:09 AM, Mark Frye wrote: I recently worked with a telecom specification that required lead plated copper lugs on the battery side and I have been using the same on my own systems for some time now. How important is it to use lead plated lugs on the battery side? Is tin plated copper just as good so long as you coat well with grease etc.? Mark Frye Berkeley Solar Electric Systems 303 Redbud Way Nevada City, CA 95959 (530) 401-8024 www.berkeleysolar.com -- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Glenn Burt Sent: Monday, November 29, 2010 6:03 PM To: 'RE-wrenches' Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Battery Cable REvistied Hi Ray, I have for my last 2 battery jobs used the Cobra X-Flex in 2/0 size with MTW rating. At the battery end I have found the Thomas Betts 54163-TB lugs, available at my local Grainger store to be a good match both mechanically and specification wise (also the correct hole size for M8 terminals in my Concorde AGM’s). On the usual electrical equipment end, I use a Greaves Shoo-Pin PT131FX20 as the appropriate reducer to a THHN stranding #2/0 size (available through our local Graybar store, drop shipped to my office). Because I am using a Sunny Island, of course nothing #2 fits… so I
Re: [RE-wrenches] Internet-based monitoring -- including batterybanks?
Hi Carl, If using an Outback FNDC or a Bogart engineering pentametric meter, and they are set up correctly, then yes it can provide state of charge. best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Nov 30, 2010, at 10:37 AM, Carl Emerson wrote: Jason, Is this system capable of reporting accurate state of charge? Fatspaniel could not deliver this feature... Carl Emerson Free Power Co. Land line +64 9 473 4286 Mobile +64 22 630 9689 Email emer...@freepower.co.nz Web www.freepower.co.nz -Original Message- From: re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org [mailto:re-wrenches-boun...@lists.re-wrenches.org] On Behalf Of Jason Lerner Sent: 1 December 2010 7:12 a.m. To: Dan Fink; RE-wrenches Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Internet-based monitoring -- including batterybanks? Hi Dan, A far as off grid system data monitoring, especially with Outback gear, I really like the products from Julie Haugh at greenHouse computers. http://www.greenhousepc.com/greenMonitor.html The technical support is incredible. The software is highly programmable, reliable, and keeps power consumption to a minimum. The data gathered can be viewed in spreadsheets, graphs, plots, mobile browser, email notifications, etc. without all the more flashy CO2 offset numbers like a fat spaniel readout. Out of all the products she offers, the gmMate which allows an Outback mate to be viewed on a computer off site, and the gmLite, which is a little data monitor that runs off the AUX output from an Outback FX/VFX are my favorite. Best, Jason Lerner Waldron Power and Light Co. On Nov 27, 2010, at 3:07 PM, Dan Fink wrote: In addition to the excellent information being posted here on monitoring grid-tied systems, I would be curious to know what products Wrenches have used and would recommend (or not) -- and why -- for web-based monitoring of systems that include battery banks, whether grid-tied islanding or off-grid. DAN FINK Buckville Energy Consulting LLC http://www.buckville.com/ IREC / ISPQ accredited Continuing Education Providers ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
[RE-wrenches] Fwd: RE: Good service on Lorentz
A good report from a customer about Genpro, who services Lorentz pumps. We replaced a failed motor earlier this year, and were serviced by Solar Power and Pump in Oklahoma. They gave good service also, but have subsequently dropped Lorentz. Allan Allan Sindelar Allan@positiveenergysolar.com NABCEP Certified Photovoltaic Installer EE98J Journeyman Electrician Positive Energy, Inc. 3201 Calle Marie Santa Fe, New Mexico 87507 505 424-1112 www.positiveenergysolar.com Original Message Subject: RE: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lorentz Date: Tue, 30 Nov 2010 19:03:37 -0700 To: al...@positiveenergysolar.com FYI. I sent Genpro the motor. They took it apart and concluded that it was not repairable. The seal at the end was deformed and had allowed fluid inside. This destroyed the bearings entirely and the motor was firmly seized. They did not charge me for the work to diagnose the situation, which was nice. -fred From: Allan Sindelar [mailto:al...@positiveenergysolar.com] Sent: Friday, November 12, 2010 8:59 PM Subject: Fwd: Re: [RE-wrenches] Lorentz Fred, you might try Genpro. Original Message Subject: Re: [RE-wrenches] Grundfos Date: Wed, 10 Nov 2010 23:42:29 GMT To: re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org I'm having much better luck with Lorentz than Grundfos for several years now. My 1st choice is always Lorentz now. Easy to field service and I love the controls on the wall and out of the well. Dislike no AC-DC swapping and narrower V window and the need for 6 wires down the hole. Good prices and service from GenPro in SD. I've had a trouble free ETA pump (predecessor to the Lorentz) in my well for 10 years now. From the Solar, Wind and Hydro powered office of Jeff Oldham/Regenerative SOLutions ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
Re: [RE-wrenches] Laing Solar Eco Pumps vs. El Sid
Message: 1 Date: Mon, 29 Nov 2010 15:59:13 -0500 (US/) From: Howie Michaelson ho...@suncatchervt.com To: RE-wrenches re-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Subject: [RE-wrenches] Laing Solar Eco Pumps vs. El Sid Message-ID: 50860.71.169.178.212.1291064353.squir...@mail7.atypica.com Content-Type: text/plain;charset=iso-8859-1 Hi All, I'm looking for feedback on the Laing EcoCirc Pumps for use in closed glycol PV driven SHW loops as well as closed loop off-grid hydronic heating loops (24 vDC battery systems or 12 vDC stepped down). Probably the D5 is the pump I'd use, but I'm open to any and all feedback. In particular, I'm looking for comparisons to El Sids. The Laings appear to have a stronger pump curve than the El Sids. I've used El Sids a fair amount for these applications and have had less than stellar results, as the El Sids often seem to have very short life spans. Dan F at El Sid suggests that they blow up due to high voltages, although he claims the 24 volt battery based pumps are good to 31 vDC and I've had them break at much lower voltages. I've also run the B12 pumps on a converter from BZ Products which was voltage limited (to 15 volts) - supposedly a safe voltage for the 12 volt battery based El Sid pumps (although Dan inferred at one point that voltage limited converters can have a higher voltage spike at start-up. I haven't ordered any over the last couple of years so I don't know if anything has changed, as I got tired of replacing them. Anyone have experience with the Laings in these circumstances? Or any similar or perhaps hopefully experience with the El Sids? At $2-300 a pop for the El Sids, I'm feeling gun-shy about spec'ing them any more. Thanks, Howie -- Howie Michaelson NABCEP Certified Solar PV Installer? Sun Catcher, LLC Renewable Energy Systems Sales and Service VT Solar Wind Incentive Program Partner http://www.SunCatcherVT.com (cell) 802-272-0004 (home) 802-439-6096 Howie, I have used half a dozen of the Laing D5 solar pumps over the last several years, all in various PV-direct glycol loop configurations. Several have been running continuously for 2 1/2 years with no problems. I've also used the El-Sid pumps, and I have had good results with them though I have basically stopped using them in favor of the D5. I've been very pleased with the D5s, and they are quieter than the El-Sids, which is an issue in some cases. The ability to sweat directly to the pump body is also nice, as you don't have to worry about thread sealing like on the El-Sid. I did have an issue with a pump failure several years ago (Not the pump's fault-my customer destroyed a pump by meddling with the system), and I wasn't too happy with the Laing customer support people I talked with as I was trying to get a replacement rotor. However, I might have just gotten the wrong person at the wrong time. That being said, I'd definitely recommend the Laing D5 over the El-Sid for most situations. Luke Christy NABCEP Certified PV Installer™: Certification #031409-25 (Luke Christy) CoSEIA Certified PV Installer (Luke Christy) Solar Gain Services, LLC Monte Vista, CO. sgsrenewab...@gmail.com ___ List sponsored by Home Power magazine List Address: RE-wrenches@lists.re-wrenches.org Options settings: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/options.cgi/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List-Archive: http://lists.re-wrenches.org/pipermail/re-wrenches-re-wrenches.org List rules etiquette: www.re-wrenches.org/etiquette.htm Check out participant bios: www.members.re-wrenches.org
