Re: [realXtend] Re: Avatar scene
Debug symbols would really help in figuring it out, that memory address won't help much out of context. Run it in debug mode. Remy Cucui rem...@gmail.com wrote: So I installed Tundra 2.5 When I try to run it, I get an error message: The application was unable to start correctly (0xc0150002). Click OK to close the application. On Thursday, May 2, 2013 2:07:43 PM UTC-4, Remy Cucui wrote: Hello! I'm trying to get the avatar scene working. When I right click the .txml file and click Host in Tundra Server (UDP 2345) and then connect with a client on the same machine, it works great, no problems. However, when I try connecting to the server I actually intend to use, and import the content (I've edited all the file paths that I could find in all the files to link to my dropbox) everything appears, but I'm stuck in the default camera and there's no avatar generated. I disconnected and reconnected with no improvement, and tried closing and starting the client back up again. No dice. I decided I'd try running the server with the --file parameter and just start it with that .txml off the bat, but the results are the same. Everything's there except for the avatar and I'm in the default camera mode that comes with Tundra. Does anyone have any ideas? I appreciate any input you might have! -- -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups realXtend group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to realxtend+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups realXtend group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to realxtend+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [realXtend] Re: Avatar scene
Also, make sure you did a full rebuild, including dependencies, a lot of external dependencies got updated in 2.5. Remy Cucui rem...@gmail.com wrote: So I installed Tundra 2.5 When I try to run it, I get an error message: The application was unable to start correctly (0xc0150002). Click OK to close the application. On Thursday, May 2, 2013 2:07:43 PM UTC-4, Remy Cucui wrote: Hello! I'm trying to get the avatar scene working. When I right click the .txml file and click Host in Tundra Server (UDP 2345) and then connect with a client on the same machine, it works great, no problems. However, when I try connecting to the server I actually intend to use, and import the content (I've edited all the file paths that I could find in all the files to link to my dropbox) everything appears, but I'm stuck in the default camera and there's no avatar generated. I disconnected and reconnected with no improvement, and tried closing and starting the client back up again. No dice. I decided I'd try running the server with the --file parameter and just start it with that .txml off the bat, but the results are the same. Everything's there except for the avatar and I'm in the default camera mode that comes with Tundra. Does anyone have any ideas? I appreciate any input you might have! -- -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups realXtend group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to realxtend+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out. -- Sent from Kaiten Mail. Please excuse my brevity. -- -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups realXtend group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to realxtend+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/groups/opt_out.
Re: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools
Just a few suggestions / things to note. 1. Even if the primary intent is not games, it would be wise to develop with the same performance mindset of a game engine. Long term viability as a platform requires keeping up with tech. 2. It might be wise to try porting ogitor to run inside realXtend. If nothing else make an exporter from ogitor to tundra. It may also be wise to look at how torque has their dcc set up. 3. It may be a good idea to look at porting torques functionality to tundra. I was recently doing research on torque, and they have a massive community, but their architecture is really bad. Don't count out game developers as a possible audience. If you were to outreach to game developers, and they were to get involved in improving the game engine side of things, it would benefit the academic side too. Games tend to be one of the biggest driving forces of technology. Cheers, Peter t...@playsign.net wrote: Hi, we had a semiofficial(*) realXtend association board meeting yesterday, mostly to discuss and organize further planning on development roadmap for the new year. My full notes are on-line, main point summarized here: We decided to plan work on two fronts, creation tools and pipelines coming as a new primary focus. The other area is the tech platform engines topic which was already worked on a lot last already (the realXtend roadmap doc from last spring discusses the three areas there, i.e. current Tundra, browser based clients and the Mobile Tundra unified light client idea). For the creation tools and pipeline we agreed to gather wishes, requirements and development proposals and meet again on Thursday next week (17th) to put together a plan. Ludocraft made one report on this already ages ago, they’ll check if parts of it are still valid. Francois will talk with Matteo and Francois from Spinningwire and ENER labs. Adminotech has some concrete needs, I think largely coming from VW use in education. I think Evocons at least can tell what they need in their work with the building industry. You, anyone, can also use this chance to inform the planning: what would you need to be able to create applications, worlds or whatever with realXtend better, or is that even a bottleneck for you now? Even vague ideas are welcome but the more concrete a plan the better of course. Some things discussed in the meeting: more example assets for e.g. use of different materials / options of the SuperShader, creating a new shader library. Better scene/ec editor with grouping etc. A question: is tighter Blender integration, for example with live material preview with a Tundra window as demonstrated by blender2ogre, a good way to author or is something else better? The full notes with some additional points are in https://docs.google.com/document/d/1IqS7Z9WUy_7jt753oSnt3HE0ISQXhT4zstP71A_6FKY/edit (not too structured, sorry). I think we can use this mailing list / google group to gather ideas and discuss, but am also interested in more structured ways. For example getsatisfaction.com has seemed nice for working on feature requests, I think I saw Kitely using that long ago and tested creating a realXtend account there too, but I don't have any real experience on using that or any other similar service. Github issues serve well for actual todo items and feature wishes too but I don’t think it suits this kind of requirements elicitation. Am open for suggestions, either here or privately. Finally, I’d like to explain a bit the rationale for the focus on creation tools as how the common interest focused there surprised me. I have earlier thought that there is a big divide between a)professional creators and b) supporting easy end user content creation. Basic realXtend offering, e.g. the Tundra SDK and the little WebGL and Flash clients, target professional creators -- people who are comfortable with normal 3d modeling and programming etc. More Second Life or Facebook style end user creation are implemented in custom applications, for example the TOY content tools which are a now a part of the Meshmoon offering, Cyberslide where you can just create a scene from your Powerpoint slides, or Ludocraft’s sandbox. But yesterday the common understanding was that there are many things that we could do to help both professional creators and services with user created content. Ease of creation is of utmost importance in professional use as well as it of course affects both the quality and especially the cost duration of projects. Also we figured that work on creation tools is relevant in any case, no matter whether we end up using Ogre, some other native engine, or WebGL more in the future. so here’s a starting point for the year! ~Toni (*) not everyone in the board could participate yesterday, so we postponed some administrative bureaucracy for a later meeting and focused on the dev planning work -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org --
Re: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools
In regards to the game dev aspect: I'm sorry if that came off the wrong way, it was just the google doc read a little more like this is an academic project, the focus is on professional use and not games, end of story. Sorry if I misinterpreted that. Also, in regards to Ogitor, I was thinking more build some sort of plug-in that would allow for using Ogitor functionality in Tundra as an in-scene editor. Also, for torque, I have to do some more research in to it, however the main two things that come to mind are possibly implementing the ability to easily transition from Torque to Tundra. The main problem I see with Torque is it is based on the old multiple inheritance methods, and is a pain to work with when you start needing custom functionality. There are resources that require you edit the engine source code at a low level to add functionality needed for a script. My thoughts were to try to use Tundra as a base to try to fix Torque's weaknesses, while allowing for easy inter-op. Ideally it would be a collaboration between the RealXtend association and GarageGames to create the best of both worlds, but I doubt that would happen. If nothing else, my main concern would be the need to implement similar DCC as torque's editor in to RealXtend, along with better tutorials on extending realXtend (not just scripts, but plug-ins as well). The documentation from Torque is really good compared to Tundra, and Tundra is a pain to start developing for from an outsider's prospective. Meshmoon alleviated some of the content creation documentation issues, however for development of additional plug-ins, or more general, non-Meshmoon specific documentation, realXtend is still lacking big time. I'm still having issues getting DCC working for realXtend, and I haven't been able to do much involving test scenes because of it. The documentation for adding a new plug-in, such as a terrain module, is almost non-existent. There are other irks such as not having easy to access documentation telling what the shortcuts are for the pop up windows easily accessible from Github or in a document somewhere in the Git as well. I think that the primary things that RealXtend could benefit from would be better documentation of how to develop for it beyond basic scripting and DCC, such as tutorials for plug-in/script development, content creation, and general tutorials which take you through the whole process of creating a basic game/scene that's actually playable and more interesting than just walking around (something like Ludocraft Circus or a basic FPS); and the ability to more easily create content. These things would be the primary way to get ready to bring more people over. Beyond that, better outreach and publicizing of the project itself would bring more people in as well. The only reason I found out about realXtend in the first place was because I found it by chance through the opensim wiki. Having press releases about releases and the like go out to places like Ogre, and having an Ogre wiki page and link to realxtend in the Ogre wiki for 3rd party projects using Ogre, would probably help bring more people in. RealXtend is a good framework, even if it needs some tune-ups, but it needs more publicity and documentation in order to grow and get bigger. On 01/09/2013 01:05 PM, Toni Alatalo wrote: On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 10:22 -0500, Peter C wrote: Just a few suggestions / things to note. Thanks - quick comments: 1. Even if the primary intent is not games, it would be wise to develop with the same performance mindset of a game engine. Long term viability as a platform requires keeping up with tech. We certainly keep that up -- both Ludocraft and Playsign are games companies, the requirements from us (e.g. Ludo's old creation tool doc, the mobile tundra plan etc) are largely from games dev perspective). Sometimes it is more difficult for us to get a good understanding of the *other* requirements, other apps besides games :) If you are referring to the remark in the google doc, it tries to say that reX is essentially about *networked multiplayer games* (or other multiuser apps) out of the box, is inherently networked, whereas e.g. Unity3D was originally for single player games (though has many mature ways to do networking nowadays with 3rd party addons and has basics builtin too). 2. It might be wise to try porting ogitor to run inside realXtend. If nothing else make an exporter from ogitor to tundra. It may also be wise to look at how torque has their dcc set up. Yes we looked at Ogitor back in the early days when considering options, I was repeatedly showing it to the guys in sprint meetings etc .. and read some of their code when considering editing things in Naali/Tundra etc. Both Tundra and Ogitor support the old simple Ogre dotscene format so they might be interoperable already, i.e. you might be able to import Ogitor authored scenes to Tundra. When I tried dotscene things in Ogitor 0.3 some 2-3
Re: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools
They open sourced the whole of Torque3D: https://github.com/GarageGames/Torque3D It only runs on Windows for now, but they are pushing for Mac and Linux support. They are also planning on open sourcing Torque2D. I think that for inter-op it would be best to start by porting functionality Torque has that Tundra does not to Tundra, and then figuring out ways to convert content/scripts from Torque to Tundra. I was looking at Torque, and the source code it self is really heavily interconnected; it would take a complete overhaul to move it to a modern entity-component system. I personally would rather just implement the missing functionality in Tundra and make it easy to port from Torque to Tundra. On 01/09/2013 01:42 PM, Toni Alatalo wrote: On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 13:30 -0500, Peter C. wrote: In regards to the game dev aspect: I'm sorry if that came off the wrong way, it was just the google doc read a little more like this is an academic project, the focus is on professional use and not games, end of story. Sorry if I misinterpreted that. Also, in regards to Ogitor, I Right, well it's me who has to be sorry for writing it too unclearly there I'm afraid. Actually the strategy we hope to drive now in the research cooperation with the university here etc. is that out of the academic work we would get concrete improvements to the tech which would really help e.g. game creation. was thinking more build some sort of plug-in that would allow for using Ogitor functionality in Tundra as an in-scene editor. Also, for torque, Right, that's what I was also wondering early on -- especially because also Ogitor uses Qt like Tundra does, might be possible to somehow hook Ogitor to be a Tundra plugin or something even (but not totally straightfoward, because Ogitor uses the Ogre API directly, whereas to integrate in Tundra nicely it'd need to be ported to the Tundra API which wraps Ogre). I have to do some more research in to it, however the main two things that come to mind are possibly implementing the ability to easily transition from Torque to Tundra. The main problem I see with Torque is it is based on the old multiple inheritance methods, and is a pain to work with when you start needing custom functionality. There are Right - the entity-component model in Tundra has certainly proven to be a nice strong point, has served great for extensibility in practice, is easy to understand I think etc. easy inter-op. Ideally it would be a collaboration between the RealXtend association and GarageGames to create the best of both worlds, but I doubt that would happen. If nothing else, my main concern would be the need to implement similar DCC as torque's editor in to RealXtend, along Interesting - it might be a far call, but it is also good to brainstorm with an open mind sometimes. BTW didn't they open source something recently, was it torque3d runtime or what? I think that the primary things that RealXtend could benefit from would be better documentation of how to develop for it beyond basic scripting Agreed. As you noted, Meshmoon docs helped already, but certainly much is still urgently needed. I think we need tech dev too but certainly creating those docs must be somehow organized finally. out to places like Ogre, and having an Ogre wiki page and link to realxtend in the Ogre wiki for 3rd party projects using Ogre, would *nod* -- I think the time is certainly ripe to submit Tundra as a candidate featured project for the Ogre site. Feel free to do it, anyone basically, but I think I must if no one else beats me to it (should not be hard..) Thanks again for the good points and welcome reminders (I wasn't recalling Ogitor and Torque too clearly at all, have been quite occupied with many other things recently too). ~Toni On 01/09/2013 01:05 PM, Toni Alatalo wrote: On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 10:22 -0500, Peter C wrote: Just a few suggestions / things to note. Thanks - quick comments: 1. Even if the primary intent is not games, it would be wise to develop with the same performance mindset of a game engine. Long term viability as a platform requires keeping up with tech. We certainly keep that up -- both Ludocraft and Playsign are games companies, the requirements from us (e.g. Ludo's old creation tool doc, the mobile tundra plan etc) are largely from games dev perspective). Sometimes it is more difficult for us to get a good understanding of the *other* requirements, other apps besides games :) If you are referring to the remark in the google doc, it tries to say that reX is essentially about *networked multiplayer games* (or other multiuser apps) out of the box, is inherently networked, whereas e.g. Unity3D was originally for single player games (though has many mature ways to do networking nowadays with 3rd party addons and has basics builtin too). 2. It might be wise to try porting ogitor to run inside realXtend. If nothing else make an exporter from
Re: [realXtend] reX assoc board meet: focus on creation tools
I suggest you read through their website, as the github is fairly basic compared to their actual website. https://www.garagegames.com/products/torque-3d On 01/09/2013 04:11 PM, Jonne Nauha wrote: This Torque seems nice, I guess. The repo is very weirdly structured for me, very hard to find the actual code. Seems they don't use a lot of dependencies, which is good i guess. Seems to implement their own window managers etc. for each platform, seems crazy to me but gets you the most control :) Yeah it looks nice and all, but why exactly should we start porting features from it to Tundra? It seems to have a very different use, as in having a flexible gui editor to create projects in click here and here to make a game kind of way. Is this networked at all or a make single player games framework? I dont even know exactly what it is, just by reading the readme from github it still leaves me puzzled. Can you be more specific what would you like to see in Tundra from this? Can you point to code/sceenshots to get some kind of idea? I doubt there is any porting to be done, its a completely different beast without all of our dependencies/libraries/frameworks. Features/ideas can be copied (if they apply to the Tundra idelogy) but they will probably need to be rewritten from scratch. I think we can however agree rex project should focus on documentation and examples (both c++ and javascript). Content creation tools can also be on the table, but as we have talked numerous times (in the issue tracker) Peter it might not be in the Tundra SDK scope to have fancy editors and ship certain kinds of 3D assets with it. Maybe we need to adjust that purity goal, I don't know. I would like to see the assets at least in a different repo if this happens and move /bin/scenes and parts of /bin/media there too. I think many of the end user problems with Tundra come from that we are a very programmer oriented thing. You can't do much with Tundra if you don't know how to code or are willing to look at some headers. This can partly be solved with documentation, but at the end of the day if you want to make things move and pop (like a game), you need to write some code either with javascript and/or c++ code. Tundra is a more of a developer SDK with some examples to get you started, not a full click a button on a editor to make a game kind of thing, I guess that is a quite nice dream to have. We could make this kind of editor, maybe utilizing ogitor or just build our own, but we would need to move our focus out from Tundra core. I suspect that this Torque was not made in a couple of months but there is some serious money and effort behind it before made open source. Btw. We have it on our todo list to make most of these things to Meshmoon. Nice(r) editors, easy primitive building, scripting templates and drag and drop content libraries. We need to make usage and building easier for our end users, I just think it might be more in Meshmoons scope that Tundra cores, hard to say. I know for a fact that if I implement these in Meshmoon I can make it just the way we like. If I'm doing it it Tundra core I need to ask for acceptance, deal with merge politics, go with cores UI style and in many cases dump down or limit the implementation so that it is generic enough and usable everywhere. *TL;DR +1 for documentation and modeling/scripting examples :)* Best regards, Jonne Nauha Adminotech developer On Wed, Jan 9, 2013 at 9:24 PM, Peter C. th3fly...@gmail.com mailto:th3fly...@gmail.com wrote: They open sourced the whole of Torque3D: https://github.com/GarageGames/Torque3D It only runs on Windows for now, but they are pushing for Mac and Linux support. They are also planning on open sourcing Torque2D. I think that for inter-op it would be best to start by porting functionality Torque has that Tundra does not to Tundra, and then figuring out ways to convert content/scripts from Torque to Tundra. I was looking at Torque, and the source code it self is really heavily interconnected; it would take a complete overhaul to move it to a modern entity-component system. I personally would rather just implement the missing functionality in Tundra and make it easy to port from Torque to Tundra. On 01/09/2013 01:42 PM, Toni Alatalo wrote: On Wed, 2013-01-09 at 13:30 -0500, Peter C. wrote: In regards to the game dev aspect: I'm sorry if that came off the wrong way, it was just the google doc read a little more like this is an academic project, the focus is on professional use and not games, end of story. Sorry if I misinterpreted that. Also, in regards to Ogitor, I Right, well it's me who has to be sorry for writing it too unclearly there I'm afraid. Actually the strategy we hope to drive now in the research cooperation with the university
[realXtend] Re: Tundra 2.4 release.
Out of curiosity, do you guys think you'll be able to implement a smaller version of the buildfixes pull request before 2.4 that only adds/fixes linux mint compiliation? Since it looks like the bigger build improvements pull request is out of the question for now, I'm working on a smaller version that should add mint support without changing all the extdeps at the same time. -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
[realXtend] Re: Question regarding entity components and arrays of groups of properties
Thanks everyone, I appreciate it. The problem I have been having is that I need an array which contains multiple properties per entry. I need to specify multiple textures and properties per layer, so that's where I'm having the difficulty. I'm evaluating the situation more, but it may take a while. -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
Re: [realXtend] Debian/testing compile fail.
No worries. I was trying to get build to work on Linux Mint and it kept tossing errors. I just happened to fix it on my end. There are a few issues with it i have to fix that were raised on the pull request, but nothing i can't do in a little bit. -- Sent from my Android phone with K-9 Mail. Please excuse my brevity. glenalec glena...@exemail.com.au wrote: Thanks for that Peter! I will have another go when the mainline is updated (I have access to a Windows system at work during the week, but it will be nice to have a version running at home for evenings/weekends). -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
[realXtend] problems exporting from Blender
Hey, I'm using the blender2ogre exporter and I'm having issues with exporting a character mesh from a .blend file. I'm using Linux Mint 13 (Ubuntu 12.04), and I have the ogre tools installed, along with meshy, and when I click export, the textures, .txml, and the materials export, but the mesh and animations don't export. Does anyone have any suggestions as to what may be going wrong here? I've also noticed that the preview in Tundra is not working. It will load the viewer, however it says there is no scene file in the console log, and nothing is displayed in the window. I'm currently trying to get some test content up and running, but I can't get anything to export, so I really can't do anything at this point. Thanks, Peter -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
Re: [realXtend] Debian/testing compile fail.
What a coincidence, I just fixed that a few days ago on a branch I have to get it to build on Linux Mint. Only reason I haven't pull requested it yet is because I don't have any info if it breaks windows build or not. Here's the build/repo: https://github.com/th3flyboy/naali/tree/th3flyboy-linuxmint -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
Re: [realXtend] Debian/testing compile fail.
pull request sent. -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
[realXtend] Re: an overview: webgl based creation tools
Alright, I stand corrected about the QT messaging, it's not the QT implementation itself that's lagging, it's what has been stated on the tracker about the design of the messaging calls in RealXtend as per the issues on the Github tracker. Sorry about that, my brain has been a bit fried lately. I'm going to do more research in to the performance issues on my end, but first I'm going to finish up a slight update I'm working on to the build scripts. After that I'm going to look in to making a few things. -- http://groups.google.com/group/realxtend http://www.realxtend.org
