Re: [regext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt

[Patrick Mevzek]

On Wed, Jan 31, 2018, at 18:11, Gould, James wrote:
> Yes, there is no great solution to the problem of including extensions 
> (object or command-response) in poll messages to clients that don’t 
> support the extension as indicated by their login services.  So, to 
> clarifying for the list, there are 4 options that include:

I favor option 1 (return the extension independent of the login services) from 
your list.

And now for my detailed rationale about that:

- the list of extensions at greeting/login time do not convey enough semantics, 
like for example which extension is mandatory for login (especially complicated 
when the registry offers at the same time multiple versions of the same  
extension). The registry can only react by refusing the login, hopefully with a 
good enough error message, but nothing is guaranteed here.
So for now, this kind of information is lost in documentation (James, another 
useful data item to have in the Registry Mapping in fact).

- the registrar has to specifically acknowledge a message, after having seen 
it; so the responsability is on him.

- poll results, aka notification messages are by definition not real time: a 
registrar could as well download them all, store them locally in some way and 
parse them later, including later when he has a software capable of 
understanding them

- some registries let registrars choose, out-of-band, which kind of 
notification messages they wish to receive; hence when this feature exists it 
should again be the burden of the registrar to make sure it receives the 
notification it needs to receive.

- giving the registrar all messages, irrespective of its choices at login time, 
is also the case giving less work to the server.

>   2.  Return an Error (e.g., 2307 “Unimplemented object service”) to 
> Poll Request for Unsupported Poll Message

This would be hugely detrimental for registrars because this would block all of 
their queue for one message about something maybe that they explicitely do not 
care about and have not implemented the relevant extension.

>   3.  Return a Successful EPP Poll Response with an Extension Element 
> that Indicates Lack of Client Support

If this means the original message is lost, I think it is a show stopper.
And if the registrar was not inclined to code a parser for some registry 
notification that forces the registry to respond with this case, why should we 
imagine that he would have coded the parser for this new extension also?

>   4.  Return a Successful EPP Poll Response with an Encoded  
> Element Indicating Lack of Client Support

Same remark. Also  is defined as a human-readable element content, hence
I do not think it is good to overload it with other data in it formatted
in some way. XML is a format, if you need to carry some formatted things it 
should be using XML elements/attributes, and not be serialized in some way in a 
string element.

-- 
  Patrick Mevzek
  p...@dotandco.com

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Re: [regext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt

[Martin Casanova]

.0Z
> S:    ClientY
> S:    2000-06-13T22:00:00.0Z
> S:    2002-09-08T22:00:00.0Z
> S:  
> S:    
> S:    
> S:  ABC-12345
> S:  54321-XYZ
> S:    
> S:  
> S:
>
>  
>
>  
>
> Thoughts?
>
>  
>
> —
>
>  
>
> JG
>
>
> cid:image001.png@01D255E2.EB933A30
>
> *James Gould
> *Distinguished Engineer
> jgo...@verisign.com
>
> 703-948-3271
> 12061 Bluemont Way
> Reston, VA 20190
>
> Verisign.com <http://verisigninc.com/>
>
> *From: *regext <regext-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of Martin Casanova
> <martin.casan...@switch.ch>
> *Date: *Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 9:14 AM
> *To: *"regext@ietf.org" <regext@ietf.org>
> *Subject: *[EXTERNAL] Re: [regext] I-D Action:
> draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt
>
>  
>
> Hi
>
> Thank you for the new version 07 of the draft-ietf-regext-change-poll.
>
> May I ask a question about it?
>
> "RFC5730 states: The  element MAY contain an OPTIONAL
>  element that contains one or more  elements
> that identify object extensions to be used during the session."
>
> The extension should be specified in the EPP Login command otherwise
> it will not be available for the client during that EPP session. I
> suppose this is also the case for this change-poll extension..
>
> What happens if a client does not specify the change-poll extension in
> the Login command but starts consuming all its poll messages? Are the
> change-poll messages delivered just without the
>
>   element or are these poll messages retained
> until a change-poll enabled EPP-Session polls them?
>
> Thank you.
>
> Martin Casanova
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> On 29.01.2018 20:40, Gould, James wrote:
>
> Hi,
>
>  
>
> I published the revised draft-ietf-regext-change-poll based on the
> feedback received during the WGLC.  Please provide any additional
> feedback on the list. 
>
>  
>
> Thanks,
>
>  
>
> —
>
> JG
>
>  
>
>  
>
>  
>
> James Gould
>
> Distinguished Engineer
>
> jgo...@verisign.com<mailto:jgo...@verisign.com>
>
>  
>
> 703-948-3271
>
> 12061 Bluemont Way
>
> Reston, VA 20190
>
>  
>
> Verisign.com <http://verisigninc.com/><http://verisigninc.com/>
>
> On 1/29/18, 2:38 PM, "regext on behalf of
> internet-dra...@ietf.org<mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>"
> <regext-boun...@ietf.org on behalf of
> 
> internet-dra...@ietf.org><mailto:regext-bounces@ietf.orgonbehalfofinternet-dra...@ietf.org>wrote:
>
>  
>
>    
>
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line
> Internet-Drafts directories.
>
>     This draft is a work item of the Registration Protocols
> Extensions WG of the IETF.
>
>    
>
> Title   : Change Poll Extension for the
> Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP)
>
>     Authors : James Gould
>
>   Kal Feher
>
>        Filename    : draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt
>
>        Pages   : 26
>
>        Date    : 2018-01-29
>
>    
>
> Abstract:
>
>    This document describes an Extensible Provisioning Protocol
> (EPP)
>
>    extension for notifying clients of operations on client
> sponsored
>
>    objects that were not initiated by the client through EPP. 
> These
>
>    operations may include contractual or policy requirements
> including
>
>    but not limited to regular batch processes, customer
> support actions,
>
>    Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy (UDRP) or
> Uniform Rapid
>
>    Suspension (URS) actions, court directed actions, and bulk
> updates
>
>    based on customer requests.  Since the client is not directly
>
>    involved or knowledgable of these operations, the extension
> is used
>
>    along with an EPP object mapping to provide the resulting
> state of
>
>    the post-operation object, and optionally a pre-operation
> object,
>
>    with the operation meta-data of what, when, who, and why.
>
>    
>
> 
>
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
>
>     https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-reg

Re: [regext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt

[Gould, James]

Martin,

Yes, that is an excellent point that we need to consider for any poll message 
extension.  What should the server do with a poll message that the client does 
not support based on the login services?  We need to consider two poll 
extension cases:


  1.  Object Extension – This is the case for an extension like the Registry 
Maintenance Notifications for EPP 
(https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-sattler-epp-registry-maintenance) that is 
being discussed on rr_ry_techops list.
  2.  Command Response Extension – This is the case for the Change Poll 
extension, where it extends the info response of EPP objects (domain, host, 
contact, …).

To be protocol compliant the server must not return an extension (Object or 
Command Response) that is not supported by the client based on the login 
services.  I really only see one solution that would apply to both types of 
extensions, which would be to return a successful EPP Poll Response with an 
appropriate message indicating the poll message namespaces that are not 
supported by the client logic services.  The client could add support for the 
poll messsage or choose to ack it to move to the next message in the queue.  
The only element in the EPP response that we can use is the   
element.  You could leverage the  as well, but I don’t believe 
that would help here.  I don’t advocate encoding something in the  
element, which is the point I made about including JSON in the  element 
for the Registry Maintenance Notifications for EPP.  In this case, I don’t 
believe there is much of a choice to stay protocol compliant and to ensure that 
the poll queue can continue to be processed.  How about encoding the  
element as below when the server needs to return a poll message to a client 
that doesn’t support one or more extensions based on their login services?

msg = extension-namespaces “ not supported in login services”
extension-namespaces = extension-namespace / extension-namespace “,” 
extension-namespaces
extension-namespace = XML namespace of EPP extension


An example of a Change Poll  element of a supported object (e.g., domain) 
is “urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:changePoll-1.0 not supported in login services”.  An 
example of a Change Poll  element of an unsupported object (e.g., .NAME 
Email Forwarding object) is 
“http://www.nic.name/epp/emailFwd-1.0,urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:changePoll-1.0 not 
supported in login services”.  The full EPP response for the first Change Poll 
 element is included below:





S:

S:

S:  

S:

S:  Command completed successfully; ack to dequeue

S:

S:

S:  2000-06-08T22:00:00.0Z

S:  urn:ietf:params:xml:ns:changePoll-1.0 not supported in login 
services

S:

S:

S:  

S:example.com

S:pending

S:ClientX

S:2000-06-08T22:00:00.0Z

S:ClientY

S:2000-06-13T22:00:00.0Z

S:2002-09-08T22:00:00.0Z

S:  

S:

S:

S:  ABC-12345

S:  54321-XYZ

S:

S:  

S:


Thoughts?

—

JG

[cid:image001.png@01D255E2.EB933A30]

James Gould
Distinguished Engineer
jgo...@verisign.com

703-948-3271
12061 Bluemont Way
Reston, VA 20190

Verisign.com<http://verisigninc.com/>
From: regext <regext-boun...@ietf.org> on behalf of Martin Casanova 
<martin.casan...@switch.ch>
Date: Tuesday, January 30, 2018 at 9:14 AM
To: "regext@ietf.org" <regext@ietf.org>
Subject: [EXTERNAL] Re: [regext] I-D Action: 
draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt


Hi

Thank you for the new version 07 of the draft-ietf-regext-change-poll.

May I ask a question about it?

"RFC5730 states: The  element MAY contain an OPTIONAL  
element that contains one or more  elements that identify object 
extensions to be used during the session."

The extension should be specified in the EPP Login command otherwise it will 
not be available for the client during that EPP session. I suppose this is also 
the case for this change-poll extension..

What happens if a client does not specify the change-poll extension in the 
Login command but starts consuming all its poll messages? Are the change-poll 
messages delivered just without the

  element or are these poll messages retained until a 
change-poll enabled EPP-Session polls them?

Thank you.

Martin Casanova







On 29.01.2018 20:40, Gould, James wrote:

Hi,



I published the revised draft-ietf-regext-change-poll based on the feedback 
received during the WGLC.  Please provide any additional feedback on the list.



Thanks,



—



JG







James Gould

Distinguished Engineer

jgo...@verisign.com<mailto:jgo...@verisign.com>



703-948-3271

12061 Bluemont Way

Reston, VA 20190



Verisign.com <http://verisigninc.com/><http://verisigninc.com/>

On 1/29/18, 2:38 PM, "regext on behalf of 
internet-dra...@ietf.org<mailto:internet-dra...@ietf.org>" 
<regext-boun...@ietf.org on behalf of 
internet-dra...@ietf.org><mailto:regext-bounces@ietf.orgonbe

Re: [regext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt

[Martin Casanova]

Hi

Thank you for the new version 07 of the draft-ietf-regext-change-poll.

May I ask a question about it?

"RFC5730 states: The  element MAY contain an OPTIONAL
 element that contains one or more  elements that
identify object extensions to be used during the session."

The extension should be specified in the EPP Login command otherwise it
will not be available for the client during that EPP session. I suppose
this is also the case for this change-poll extension..

What happens if a client does not specify the change-poll extension in
the Login command but starts consuming all its poll messages? Are the
change-poll messages delivered just without the

  element or are these poll messages retained
until a change-poll enabled EPP-Session polls them?

Thank you.

Martin Casanova




 
On 29.01.2018 20:40, Gould, James wrote:
> Hi,
>
> I published the revised draft-ietf-regext-change-poll based on the feedback 
> received during the WGLC.  Please provide any additional feedback on the 
> list.  
>
> Thanks,
>   
> —
>  
> JG
>
>
>
> James Gould
> Distinguished Engineer
> jgo...@verisign.com
>
> 703-948-3271
> 12061 Bluemont Way
> Reston, VA 20190
>
> Verisign.com  
> On 1/29/18, 2:38 PM, "regext on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org" 
>  wrote:
>
> 
> A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
> directories.
> This draft is a work item of the Registration Protocols Extensions WG of 
> the IETF.
> 
> Title   : Change Poll Extension for the Extensible 
> Provisioning Protocol (EPP)
> Authors : James Gould
>   Kal Feher
>   Filename: draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt
>   Pages   : 26
>   Date: 2018-01-29
> 
> Abstract:
>This document describes an Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP)
>extension for notifying clients of operations on client sponsored
>objects that were not initiated by the client through EPP.  These
>operations may include contractual or policy requirements including
>but not limited to regular batch processes, customer support actions,
>Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy (UDRP) or Uniform Rapid
>Suspension (URS) actions, court directed actions, and bulk updates
>based on customer requests.  Since the client is not directly
>involved or knowledgable of these operations, the extension is used
>along with an EPP object mapping to provide the resulting state of
>the post-operation object, and optionally a pre-operation object,
>with the operation meta-data of what, when, who, and why.
> 
> 
> The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-regext-change-poll/
> 
> There are also htmlized versions available at:
> https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07
> https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07
> 
> A diff from the previous version is available at:
> https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07
> 
> 
> Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of 
> submission
> until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.
> 
> Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
> ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/
> 
> ___
> regext mailing list
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> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/regext
> 
>
> ___
> regext mailing list
> regext@ietf.org
> https://www.ietf.org/mailman/listinfo/regext

-- 
SWITCH 
Martin Casanova, Domain Applications
Werdstrasse 2, P.O. Box, 8021 Zurich, Switzerland 
phone +41 44 268 15 55, direct +41 44 268 16 25
martin.casan...@switch.ch, www.switch.ch 
 
Working for a better digital world

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Re: [regext] I-D Action: draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt

[Gould, James]

Hi,

I published the revised draft-ietf-regext-change-poll based on the feedback 
received during the WGLC.  Please provide any additional feedback on the list.  

Thanks,
  
—
 
JG



James Gould
Distinguished Engineer
jgo...@verisign.com

703-948-3271
12061 Bluemont Way
Reston, VA 20190

Verisign.com  
On 1/29/18, 2:38 PM, "regext on behalf of internet-dra...@ietf.org" 
 wrote:


A New Internet-Draft is available from the on-line Internet-Drafts 
directories.
This draft is a work item of the Registration Protocols Extensions WG of 
the IETF.

Title   : Change Poll Extension for the Extensible 
Provisioning Protocol (EPP)
Authors : James Gould
  Kal Feher
Filename: draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07.txt
Pages   : 26
Date: 2018-01-29

Abstract:
   This document describes an Extensible Provisioning Protocol (EPP)
   extension for notifying clients of operations on client sponsored
   objects that were not initiated by the client through EPP.  These
   operations may include contractual or policy requirements including
   but not limited to regular batch processes, customer support actions,
   Uniform Domain-Name Dispute-Resolution Policy (UDRP) or Uniform Rapid
   Suspension (URS) actions, court directed actions, and bulk updates
   based on customer requests.  Since the client is not directly
   involved or knowledgable of these operations, the extension is used
   along with an EPP object mapping to provide the resulting state of
   the post-operation object, and optionally a pre-operation object,
   with the operation meta-data of what, when, who, and why.


The IETF datatracker status page for this draft is:
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/draft-ietf-regext-change-poll/

There are also htmlized versions available at:
https://tools.ietf.org/html/draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07
https://datatracker.ietf.org/doc/html/draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07

A diff from the previous version is available at:
https://www.ietf.org/rfcdiff?url2=draft-ietf-regext-change-poll-07


Please note that it may take a couple of minutes from the time of submission
until the htmlized version and diff are available at tools.ietf.org.

Internet-Drafts are also available by anonymous FTP at:
ftp://ftp.ietf.org/internet-drafts/

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regext mailing list
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