Re: Fibration questions
wait -- what does this do: echo -e tea\0 somedir/metas/plugin/hash will set the hash tea in 'somedir' if it is empty. if it has 'subdir' already, nothing happens. echo -e something_differenet\0 somedir/subdir/metas/plugins/hash will set the hash 'something_differenet' if any of [r5 | tea | fnv1 | rupasov | degenerate hash | all future hash plugins] in 'somedir/subdir' if 'subdir' is empty. echo -e r5\0 somedir/metas/plugins/hash nothing happens as 'subdir' exists. What is the hash of subdir now? 'somthing_different' What about new subdirs? What hash will they get? new subobjects inherit all plugins from the object they are created in at the creation time. future changes of plugins of the object will not be applied to already created subobjects, only to new subobjects. Note: if a plugin is used for rendering the object content then its changing needs a convertion method. Thus if you create a file in the dir then the hash plugin gets used, and you need to convert the dir to change the hash successfully. As there is no such convertion methods yet, you cannot change the hash of not empty dir. -- Thanks, Vitaly Fertman
Re: Fibration questions
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 05:36:43PM -0400, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This of course explains why IE is the premier web browser on 95% of the desktops, right? I mean, it's faster and more secure than all the alternatives, right? ;) I think desktops for all the Joe Q. Averages are pretty much a different scene from servers.. And how many times has the global RAM market been put under severe strain because the latest Windows upgrade needed more RAM, so everybody went out and bought more RAM, and more RAM, and more RAM... But Windows isn't the only thing that starts requiring more RAM, and if you can buy more for a lesser price, that's what you'll do, regardless. The *correct* model is Gee, let's buy this new box, because the salesman told us we need at least a Model 9000 to run this app, and *never* *mentioned* that with proper tuning, we could actually get by with a Model 6000 that costs half as much, and makes him half as much in sales commission. But that happens. Maybe I'm the unexperienced obnoxious adolescent again, as I'm in only my second job so far, but I've noticed that both employers have the principle that if you can get anything, even the slightest guarantee, that something is faster and more stable at a somewhat higher cost, it's worth it. Even if you'd be paying for a scapegoat-factor warranty. OK, the first job didn't last _that_ long because it was a start-up and started running out of money, so maybe we should have invested in poorer servers, but then again, we got to see all our competitors go down in flames. And the company was alive and kicking (with a smaller staff) until it got bought by a bigger company, so it all ended quite well. Tune even faster solution and get even more power, it'll last us all weekend, before it goes obsolete... I mean.. *seriously* - think about it for a moment. A co-worker recently spec'ed out a Dell 6600 for a project - paid US$20k or so for that one. I needed another server for another project, ended up spec'ing a Dell 2650 for about US$7k. Now *what* motivation does Dell have to sell both of us 2650's rather than trying to talk us both into 6600's? (As it was, Dell got lucky I didn't go for a box even *smaller* than a 2650... at $7K, trying to save MORE money isn't worth it. And I'm quite sure that Sun wasn't overjoyed when we So a Dell 2650 could have could have handled what the 6600 did? And they're still selling 6600s, how big an impact would Reiser4's speed advantage have really on them? But it seems I'm over over my head now :) But this isn't the only way of trying to get funding from a big company. Speed, that is. Also - in what way, exactly, is Reiser4 more secure? (Think carefully about the Linux security model here, and where the LSM hooks are - almost all of it happens at the VFS layer. And there's the whole xattr debacle too...) Should I have said safe instead of secure? Maybe that would be the better English word for it. Like being safe at power failures. Then there's view security, which should be implemented. I make my meager living as a small-time administrator and writer of web (and similar) magick in Python, so I don't know why the xattrs couldn't be mapped to Reiser4 calls, but shouldn't it be technically possible? Maybe that's a point on which to whore out at the prospect of big cash... Maybe some potential sponsor would agree that the Reiser4 way is the better way, they'd agree that Linux file systems are starting to suck compared to, say, Apple's file system and they'd like to do something about it. Also asking for a smaller sum of money might be a tactic, That other company asked for x money and they got it for their trivial thing, but we're asking for x/10 to do so much more. But it boils down to presenting this in a convincing manner... But these are just ideas, I have absolutely zero marketing experience so this should not be taken as a presumptuous manual on how to do things :) -- mjt
Re: Fibration questions
On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:45:26PM -0500, David Masover wrote: | UPDATE formatting SET policy='never\0' WHERE policy='smart\0' RECURSE; | instead of just | UPDATE formatting SET policy='never\0' RECURSE; | which may break something else... Both should be allowed. Can that be done now? And with echo, not SQL. I can't check now but maybe: for dir in $(find . -type d); do format=$(cat $dir/..metas/plugin/formatting) if [ $format == smart\0 ]; then echo -e 'never\0' $format for file in $(find $dir -type f); do cat file /dev/null done fi done IIRC the access required to change the file's formatting policy on the file system was read-only. If you actually had to change something, replace cat with chmod +x chmod -x or something. Namesys guys want to comment?-) -- mjt
Re: Fibration questions
On Thursday 22 July 2004 12:10, Vitaly Fertman wrote: First question: Can I manually enable/disable a particular plugin for a particular directory? (like how cryptocompress is supposed to be...) you can change a plugin for a file if it does not destroy its structure. Thus for an empty directory you can : # cat somedir/metas/plugin/hash ; echo 1 r5 r5 hash # echo -e tea\0 somedir/metas/plugin/hash So if one does # echo -e tea somedir/metas/plugin/hash it can crash reiser4, because of a non terminated C string? It would be a good idea if the meta filesystem interface always auto terminates strings (add + '\0') issued by echo. procfs does it that way. -- lg, Chris
Re: Fibration questions
On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:59:23AM +0200, Christian Mayrhuber wrote: It would be a good idea if the meta filesystem interface always auto terminates strings (add + '\0') issued by echo. procfs does it that way. Or add a small parser that allows \n so that cat output would look better... -- mjt
Re: v4 questions, crc's
Tom Vier writes: On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 05:30:38PM -0500, David Dabbs wrote: would you mind forwarding links to the IBM/Sun info you mentioned? i'll see if i can find it. i think the sun stuff was on slashdot. as far as ibm, that was just from their tv commercials. they mention self healing file systems. No serious technical information of Sun ZFS is publicly available. There is a couple of introductional papers by Valerie Hensen (http://www.nmt.edu/~val/): http://ohm.hpl.hp.com/self-manage03/Finals/henson-self-tune.pdf Nikita. -- Tom Vier [EMAIL PROTECTED] DSA Key ID 0x15741ECE
Re: Fibration questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Markus Törnqvist wrote: | On Fri, Jul 23, 2004 at 11:59:23AM +0200, Christian Mayrhuber wrote: | |It would be a good idea if the meta filesystem interface always auto |terminates strings (add + '\0') issued by echo. procfs does it that way. | | | Or add a small parser that allows \n so that cat output would look | better... And remove \n from input so we could really just do echo foo metas/bar with no worries. Amen, if it could be done for only access through the open system call. That is, if someone wants speed, they'll use sys_reiser4, and if they use sys_reiser4, they want speed -- thus sys_reiser4 would not add \0 or add/remove \n. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBQQFVS3gHNmZLgCUhAQJ86g/6AsEwzPGRmBIfHCOW/SBS/iErwxhRHYmj 1SOwgUan+Aa/G7YVQZziI6/wS3hjcjW0lzelI8LAJM7fomWprwHKmFP7a7BngOEh Phwmk0TGVvOiFZ3J34vfyBnYTeM15ttOfWDbJQI5x15K3nkPNgytgajIYKYtGkeL eBuEo0YUoJ7IGyFnJScqnC7QsLgR/ak5F2oJrZCKRskycVN+ceXG9xdFX5K6U6TM p8mfmRXGpKMtw9Ob1CQ+jjOQ98T2cFgGQ/00i3U2wfzrkFEcjOqZdNwIDbEKXHND Fvxz1X//WPsaZkXOAO9TUneWkthVjcrDCJCJfSG5FxSeE04JscxOLyxZlyJqB2nG YHIhQetrSI7hJqwT9eCWzO8ihpkmdqmfTHjEkmmpWbZ4L51e7uom9KQw0+SCCp0C ag+zHE7W32ysULqKT+ozpi/P7FaEKq5kizZ/KYUkIYrco1IMrPV9ZCUxA0YDINy/ MBTfxNrMy+HoTHDsy4EFrX3Dldi/hm7dDoBcDrmssfDiWcfKuJad+Zg/edSyRRcb NpjaaAiIX9LQP0JQsh/k4+zPSf5Gp+JU8T8IG8MxZQOTInvKAbXL7oqx2Zmieae7 bWscaJzC6HvLSUcBfHXJdM1+ELLrLoExlJFMMzqrdjTypxRHvkKM9qVm50JM6lfu h2t8BlnnKtI= =vUTa -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Fibration questions
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 Markus Törnqvist wrote: | On Thu, Jul 22, 2004 at 09:45:26PM -0500, David Masover wrote: | || UPDATE formatting SET policy='never\0' WHERE policy='smart\0' RECURSE; || instead of just || UPDATE formatting SET policy='never\0' RECURSE; || which may break something else... | |Both should be allowed. Can that be done now? And with echo, not SQL. | | | I can't check now but maybe: | | for dir in $(find . -type d); do | format=$(cat $dir/..metas/plugin/formatting) | if [ $format == smart\0 ]; then | echo -e 'never\0' $format | for file in $(find $dir -type f); do | cat file /dev/null | done | fi | done I was thinking a plugin. Also, metas is _still_ the default on the auto snapshots. I change it to '...' whenever I feel like looking at the code. find -type d would most likely not work. I'm thinking of an attribute which would apply to every type of object, including files, also files which are directories, and so on. Mainly just a few flags -- right now I'm thinking never purge me from cache and I'm a stub; if something actually tries accessing me, pull me from the network. -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.4 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://enigmail.mozdev.org iQIVAwUBQQFXDXgHNmZLgCUhAQIsSBAAiThNM1TkyvVQzkhK48RPzrAlM8T3rYTW QWYCdY5TjIQ5svt/m+hj27HPAFh1PCU/ZtRIE3lv01eGHmlz5/560r2v3VAIHlpn GQEJaw587hcvN+owUsj4PgajIWX1tJJ5fiyfV3Llq6QqJhb6jm8UxH9mX/03Gz0d p76AbtBF0z8xDxt87lEwTrhxWZmgas1H+qyPnCR1F4fFEn54H7DA4Sp9e+5rqtGJ 8p9kXlYgjigfxjITkXCYlA3k/9K3+T7bWvlM16P8Buf9O4HaUKhAv/s1mAx6iJVy FUPxzaz9hF169O89RGWAbbyxZ9k2Z7+VK9sxLoiqkTRKNqBfZv8sdQyQ9r9ZwBxc HKfF2Ndzjd3pR/NES1ukvECHqjsSmXI3fRFBB80x+o1hM/+MvoZjtCcn3H/Aes96 yKgwR3UFYnZfBi9PHOdQn2sOfGXJaEj1n37QeuyGEAmUZb/5Zf/ukMfYyhBfgqPY rZw7QSY71bhrbRu0k1/cZ6kkEvdyAA90+nAzwyHMqLktPZ/uZc324HfyudrAb6cy g7x3mM8Jj5Wm7XK1lD6OU1EsJQcNNt/dsRdZgT82tX4w+ZRbedYEhWqCM1ER83OS pwmWTiumpxbDgCWyrEDOyHtfihPJkPmz4xBHytKrX/pRKVCqNl28UPw32gJA0P4i uwkYWv8vnDI= =2D+S -END PGP SIGNATURE-
Re: Fibration questions
On Fri, 23 Jul 2004 12:28:49 +0300, Markus =?UNKNOWN?Q?T=F6rnqvist?= said: I think desktops for all the Joe Q. Averages are pretty much a different scene from servers.. It's not as different as you might think. Remember in most corporations that use Active Directory, all the infrastructure boxes (domain controllers, etc) are Windows boxes too. Quite recently, an amazing number of webservers got 0wned because somebody browsed the net using IE while logged on at the server console And how many times has the global RAM market been put under severe strain because the latest Windows upgrade needed more RAM, so everybody went out and bought more RAM, and more RAM, and more RAM... But Windows isn't the only thing that starts requiring more RAM, and if you can buy more for a lesser price, that's what you'll do, regardless. No, the price of RAM went *UP*, dramatically, because demand was higher than supply, so you were buying less for a higher price. The point is that the manufacturers of RAM and systems had *no* incentive to do anything to stop it. Microsoft is expected to recommend that the average Longhorn PC feature a dual-core CPU running at 4 to 6GHz; a minimum of 2 gigs of RAM; up to a terabyte of storage; a 1 Gbit, built-in, Ethernet-wired port and an 802.11g wireless link; and a graphics processor that runs three times faster than those on the market today. http://www.microsoft-watch.com/article2/0,1995,1581842,00.asp Now *try* to convince me that the Dell and HP saw this, and their first thought was Let's see if we can get it to run well on a single-core 3GHz with 1G of RAM ;) If that was their first thought, the second was OK, I'm done laughing, now I need to pick myself up off the floor Maybe I'm the unexperienced obnoxious adolescent again, as I'm in only my second job so far, but I've noticed that both employers have the principle that if you can get anything, even the slightest guarantee, that something is faster and more stable at a somewhat higher cost, it's worth it. Even if you'd be paying for a scapegoat-factor warranty. Right. Which is why you end up *buying* that faster server at higher cost than you might really need. Most managers have a *really* hard time dealing with the concept If you use this alternative, totally free, no-cost, software, it will run faster and save you money. Tune even faster solution and get even more power, it'll last us all weekend, before it goes obsolete... You'd be *amazed* at how many sites *dont* have somebody on the payroll who can do tuning well. Usually, it's whatever they remember from the MSCE exam. Just because my shop has people experienced in tuning everything from old ferrite-core systems to top-10 supercomputers doesn't mean every shop does. ;) So a Dell 2650 could have could have handled what the 6600 did? No, the 2650 would certainly have gotten swamped, the two boxes are doing different things. The point is that *DELL* didn't have any incentive to get me to buy a 2650 instead of another 6600. And if I had little clue, and actually talked to a Dell sales rep, they probably could have convinced me I needed a 6600. And they're still selling 6600s, how big an impact would Reiser4's speed advantage have really on them? But it seems I'm over over my head now :) Trust me, it wouldn't have helped enough to get the 6600's workload to fit on a 2650. Should I have said safe instead of secure? Maybe that would be the better English word for it. Like being safe at power failures. Is it *demonstrably* better than ext3 with 'data=journal'? Then there's view security, which should be implemented. Ahh.. but view security doesn't do you as much good as it could, mostly because of the support at the VFS level issues. I make my meager living as a small-time administrator and writer of web (and similar) magick in Python, so I don't know why the xattrs couldn't be mapped to Reiser4 calls, but shouldn't it be technically possible? I'll refrain from saying anything except read the list archives But these are just ideas, I have absolutely zero marketing experience so this should not be taken as a presumptuous manual on how to do things :) You'd have more luck not talking to the people who sell hardware or systems, but to the people who *use* hardware and systems, or who sell consulting/maintenance. For instance, Google has multiple large server farms, each of which has 15K to 20K systems in it. They're a Linux shop, and would probably be willing to part with a fairly large sum of cash if it meant their hardware upgrade costs went down even 5%. There's lots of places making money doing custom one-off solutions based on Linux - for instance, most of IBM's Linux revenue comes from consulting/ support. A shop that's doing systems integration might well be willing to pay $100K for another thing in their bag of tricks that lets them land 20 contracts that make them $10K profit each, by being able to
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