Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
The wall is the central metaphor defining the meaning and work of the Establishment Clause for many commentators including on this list. When the government "gets away" with some emblematic behavior tinged with religious connotations, the hue and cry of breach is predictable. We are all watching with horror as the situation on the gulf coast goes from terrible to unimaginable. And in the midst of it, suddenly, the breach of the levee walls made the unimaginable simply a stop on the road to the unthinkable. But this list is for thinking. As I have heard the cable news bulldogs talking about lack of sufficient preparation on the part of the federal government, I wondered, "Is that really the case? Have all federal government officials really fallen down on the job?" It took me a few minutes of thought to recall that at least one federal official, a judge, had looked ahead to this day. Like the proverbial ant laboring through the summer's sunshine, he prepared for this eventually. And, unlike so many "talkers," he actually did something. You may be wondering about the identity of the judge in question. I am wondering how you could forget a judge who would have the prescience, the forethought, to see the inevitability of a future disaster of, well, biblical proportions, and take action. I am, of course, referring to Judge Ira DeMent. After he concluded that the Alabama Prayer Statute was unconstitutional, he issued a permanent injunction that was, if I correctly recall, much debated and with heat on this list. One key feature of his order, the one which demonstrates today his prescience then was his judicial ban on _expression_ of religious or devotional sentiments over school public address systems even in times of war, natural disaster, or serious community distress. This week, as Katrina has worn away at the levee walls in New Orleans, we have the news that another assault on the wall of separation took place yesterday, when Louisiana's Governor declared a Day of Prayer. Governor Blanco urged Louisianans to pray to God and even told them how to pray and what things for which to pray. You can read her declaration here.Or point your browser to http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=988. I wonder whether anyone will be found to stand in this breach?Will any forward thinking, DeMent-minded person or group will step forward to close it again, to push back the might rushing waters of government-encouraged, government-endorsed religious invocations of divine aid?Will People For, or AmericansUnited, or the ACLU, ride in to the rescue? Jim Henderson Senior Counsel ACLJ ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
Jim Henderson, you are beyond disgusting. People are dying. They were gasping out their last breaths or cradling a loved one--a child, a mother or father--in distress as you wrote your post. Save your idelogical arguments for another time. I'm sorry, Eugene, but this is too much so don't bother to scold/reprove. Perhaps I no longer want to be part of this listserv when one of its members demonstrates such cruel indifference to human grief and suffering. Frances R. A. Paterson, J.D., Ed.D. Associate Professor Department of Educational Leadership Valdosta State University Valdosta, GA 31698 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
I'm with Frances, in terms of the Establishment Clause issue that Jim has raised. In terms of the issue, this to me is just like the latitude that Bill Marshall has argued should be granted regarding post-9/11 religious observances. To quote Bill's article, "The Limits of Secularism: Public Religious _expression_ in Moments of National Crisis and Tragedy," 78 Notre Dame L. Rev. 11 (2002) (the title really says it all): "In the end, I suggest in this Essay that the tension between the constitutional commitment to anti-establishment and the societal need to engage in collective religious exercise can be accommodated by a doctrine that allows for government support for religion in limited and exceptional circumstances The constitutional value of secularism is in its instrumental role, not in its own orthodoxy. As such, the adherence to secularism need not be absolute. There may be moments of national crisis and grief when instrumental values pale and it becomes constitutionally permissible to pierce the secular veneer." Marshall, 78 Notre DameL. Rev. at 33. David T. Ball, Esq.Associate DirectorOhio Legal Assistance Foundation10 W. Broad St., Suite 950Columbus, OH 43215voice: 614-644-1582fax: 614-728-3749cell: 614-316-8222www.olaf.org From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 1:11 PMTo: religionlaw@lists.ucla.eduSubject: Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls Jim Henderson, you are beyond disgusting. People are dying. They were gasping out their last breaths or cradling a loved one--a child, a mother or father--in distress as you wrote your post. Save your idelogical arguments for another time. I'm sorry, Eugene, but this is too much so don't bother to scold/reprove. Perhaps I no longer want to be part of this listserv when one of its members demonstrates such cruel indifference to human grief and suffering. Frances R. A. Paterson, J.D., Ed.D.Associate ProfessorDepartment of Educational LeadershipValdosta State UniversityValdosta, GA 31698 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
In Frances Paterson's defense, while this may be the place for the noting that Henderson did, considerations of appropriate time are also relevant. And just now, when we don't even know how many people have died, haven't recovered their bodies, haven't even necessarily rescued all the trapped, does not strike me as a felicitous moment for a substantive discussion (as opposed to baiting one's perceived adversaries from the security of one's intact and dry home or office). David B. Cruz Professor of Law University of Southern California Law School Los Angeles, CA 90089-0071 U.S.A. On Thu, 1 Sep 2005, Gene Summerlin wrote: I'll come to Jim's defense. I don't think it is inappropriate to note on a religion law list that the Governor of Louisiana has declared a day of prayer, and that some people have advocated that such pronouncements violate the EC clause, or that such a pronouncement if given over a school's public address system in Alabama, would violate Judge DeMent's injunction. Nor do I think Jim's post was cruelly indifferent to the very real grief and suffering taking place in the Gulf Coast region. Jim noted his horror as the situation turned from the terrible to the unimaginable. Gene Summerlin Ogborn, Summerlin Ogborn, P.C. 210 Windsor Place 330 South Tenth Street Lincoln, NE 68508 (402) 434-8040 (402) 434-8044 (facsimile) (402) 730-5344 (mobile) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.osolaw.com ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
In a message dated 9/1/05 1:48:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, I know now what I always suspected. If I cried out to Jim Henderson for succor, he might well help me but one part of his mind would be thinking or at least considering if he could use my suffering to advance his agenda. Frances Paterson For all we know Jim has sent a bigger contribution to the New Orleans relief effort than any of the rest of us. If Jim were in Louisiana he might be staffing a Red Cross shelter; my recollection is that he does a lot of personal (non-legal) pro bono work here. I doubt that any of us who aren't near New Orleans are devoting 100% of our attention to the suffering in New Orleans; I'm working on a brief. I share [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s view that there was nothing offensive about Jim's post. As to the proclamation, I do wish it had said something more like "My family and I are praying, and I call upon those who wish to do so to join us, and I call upon others to work and hope for relief from this disaster in the way that's meaningful to them." That wouldn't have been so hard to say, would it? Art Spitzer ACLU ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
One might think that instead of spending time issuing calls for prayer, the governor would focus on more down-to-earth matters. The call for prayers also of course raises a different practial question. When I moved to Oklahoma the state was in the middle of huge drought, with no rain for months. Rather than call for water conservation, the governor called on everyone to pray for rain the next Sunday (apparently the Gov. did not think God heard the prayers of Jews, Moslems, or Adventists). Despite the huge humber of churches in this state, and I presume many prayers for rain, there was no rain and the drought continued. So miuch for the efficacy of prayer.! I suspect that our many friends in Louisian and Mississippi would rather have bottled water or another bus to get out of the city than prayers. Paul Finkelman Gene Summerlin wrote: I'll come to Jim's defense. I don't think it is inappropriate to note on a religion law list that the Governor of Louisiana has declared a day of prayer, and that some people have advocated that such pronouncements violate the EC clause, or that such a pronouncement if given over a school's public address system in Alabama, would violate Judge DeMent's injunction. Nor do I think Jim's post was cruelly indifferent to the very real grief and suffering taking place in the Gulf Coast region. Jim noted his horror as the situation turned from the "terrible to the unimaginable." Gene Summerlin Ogborn, Summerlin Ogborn, P.C. 210 Windsor Place 330 South Tenth Street Lincoln, NE 68508 (402) 434-8040 (402) 434-8044 (facsimile) (402) 730-5344 (mobile) [EMAIL PROTECTED] www.osolaw.com From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 11:21 AM To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls The wall is the central metaphor defining the meaning and work of the Establishment Clause for many commentators including on this list. When the government "gets away" with some emblematic behavior tinged with religious connotations, the hue and cry of breach is predictable. We are all watching with horror as the situation on the gulf coast goes from terrible to unimaginable. And in the midst of it, suddenly, the breach of the levee walls made the unimaginable simply a stop on the road to the unthinkable. But this list is for thinking. As I have heard the cable news bulldogs talking about lack of sufficient preparation on the part of the federal government, I wondered, "Is that really the case? Have all federal government officials really fallen down on the job?" It took me a few minutes of thought to recall that at least one federal official, a judge, had looked ahead to this day. Like the proverbial ant laboring through the summer's sunshine, he prepared for this eventually. And, unlike so many "talkers," he actually did something. You may be wondering about the identity of the judge in question. I am wondering how you could forget a judge who would have the prescience, the forethought, to see the inevitability of a future disaster of, well, biblical proportions, and take action. I am, of course, referring to Judge Ira DeMent. After he concluded that the Alabama Prayer Statute was unconstitutional, he issued a permanent injunction that was, if I correctly recall, much debated and with heat on this list. One key feature of his order, the one which demonstrates today his prescience then was his judicial ban on _expression_ of religious or devotional sentiments over school public address systems even in times of war, natural disaster, or serious community distress. This week, as Katrina has worn away at the levee walls in New Orleans, we have the news that another assault on the wall of separation took place yesterday, when Louisiana's Governor declared a Day of Prayer. Governor Blanco urged Louisianans to pray to God and even told them how to pray and what things for which to pray. You can read her declaration here.Or point your browser to http://www.gov.state.la.us/Press_Release_detail.asp?id=988. I wonder whether anyone will be found to stand in this breach?Will any forward thinking, DeMent-minded person or group will step forward to close it again, to push back the might rushing waters of government-encouraged, government-endorsed religious invocations of divine aid?Will People For, or AmericansUnited, or the ACLU, ride in to the rescue? Jim Henderson Senior Counsel ACLJ ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private.
Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
I'm not sure there is anything the governor could have done in the time it took to issue a call to prayer that wasn't already being done. And in time of crisis, like 9/11 or Hurricane Katrina or anything else of such a devastating magnitude, there are many of us who find a call to prayer as recognizing that there are more needs than just the material down-to-earth ones. The provision of material needs tells me that my leaders are aware of shortages and doing their job to meet them. The call to prayer tells me that the leaders' hearts are with me as well. Brad P.S. Regarding the eficacy of prayer, for reasons we may not know, God doesn't always say yes to everything we ask, but that's a subject for another list. Paul Finkelman wrote on 09/01/2005 01:26:54 PM: One might think that instead of spending time issuing calls for prayer, the governor would focus on more down-to-earth matters. The call for prayers also of course raises a different practial question. When I moved to Oklahoma the state was in the middle of huge drought, with no rain for months. Rather than call for water conservation, the governor called on everyone to pray for rain the next Sunday (apparently the Gov. did not think God heard the prayers of Jews, Moslems, or Adventists). Despite the huge humber of churches in this state, and I presume many prayers for rain, there was no rain and the drought continued. So miuch for the efficacy of prayer.! I suspect that our many friends in Louisian and Mississippi would rather have bottled water or another bus to get out of the city than prayers. Paul Finkelman ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
What the Establishment Clause in the abstract means is one thing; whether as a practical matter any body would or should enforce the maximum possible reading of the clause is something again. I have often urged on the Jewish community some exercise of judgment over what issues result in law suit. I have however been burnt more than once when those urging greater permissible involvement of religion with government cite the practice I have urged not be challenged as a mater of prudence as evidence of a (de facto) concession that the constitution does not enact a wall of separation. It takes no imagination at all to guess that the next time that there is a law suit about official prayers, the governors call yesterday will be cited as evidence that the challenged prayer is acceptable. If Jim will agree not to so cite it, I am happy not to challenge it and to urge others to do the same. Marc Stern From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 2:18 PM To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Subject: Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls In a message dated 9/1/05 1:48:47 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: Well, I know now what I always suspected. If I cried out to Jim Henderson for succor, he might well help me but one part of his mind would be thinking or at least considering if he could use my suffering to advance his agenda. Frances Paterson For all we know Jim has sent a bigger contribution to the New Orleans relief effort than any of the rest of us. If Jim were in Louisiana he might be staffing a Red Cross shelter; my recollection is that he does a lot of personal (non-legal) pro bono work here. I doubt that any of us who aren't near New Orleans are devoting 100% of our attention to the suffering in New Orleans; I'm working on a brief. I share [EMAIL PROTECTED]'s view that there was nothing offensive about Jim's post. As to the proclamation, I do wish it had said something more like My family and I are praying, and I call upon those who wish to do so to join us, and I call upon others to work and hope for relief from this disaster in the way that's meaningful to them. That wouldn't have been so hard to say, would it? Art Spitzer ACLU ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
I don't spend a lot of time worrying about the exact words government officials use to respond to catastrophes, but Art makes a very legitimate point here. It's not hard to come up with language that is inclusive. When we face disasters as a people, and feel the need to speak as a people, and recognize the need to work together to overcome the adversity we face, shouldn't our leaders try to speak in ways that work for everybody. Even if Scalia is right that only 2.3% of us will be left out of a non-denominational, monotheistic message (and I don't think he is), why shouldn't officials try to use language that reaches out to those people as well. Alan Brownstein UC Davis Art wrote, As to the proclamation, I do wish it had said something more like My family and I are praying, and I call upon those who wish to do so to join us, and I call upon others to work and hope for relief from this disaster in the way that's meaningful to them. That wouldn't have been so hard to say, would it? ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls
Were there penalties in the past, they would have pre-dated the Establishment Clause, and so would not be relevant to EC litigation. Washington's actions are noteworthy, perhaps: Congress sent him (non-binding) resolutions calling for days of prayer or fasting; Washington carefully edited out references to Jesus or other specific deific mentions, and issued (non-binding) calls for days of thanks, etc. Washington also lived long before Keynes noted that governments need not sit idly by and watch disaster happen. But Washington was rarely, if ever, accused of sitting on his hands. As a behind-the-scenes instigator of the Constitutional convention, he rather clearly demonstrated his bias for action as far as humans can go, before, during and after resort to prayer. And at his inaugural, once the official, government exercises were done, Washington and company adjourned to a church up the street, away from the government hall, forprayer and a sermon. I think Judge Dement would have approved of that, too. Surely there should be no less separation after incorporation. We can learn a lot from history. Ed Darrell Dallas[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: In a message dated 9/1/2005 4:11:37 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: In a purely legal vein, I would note that the governor's call carries no penalty for noncompliance, nor any penalty for complying by praying differently, or to a different deity. These define a standard by which adventures in Establishment Clause violations could be measured. In fact, I suspect that a record of evidence could be mounted to show that, in the early history of our country, at least in the colonial period, that individual but public failure to honor days of fasting and prayer did, in fact, carry these kinds of penalties, and help to characterize and define the established nature of the respective colonial state churches. Of course, what happened in the colonial period, or in the States before Incorporation, for that matter, does not per se inform us of the meaning of the Establishment Clause but, as with the jailing of Baptist preachers, it can provide a persuasive backdrop against which to argue for Jefferson's or Madison's view of maximizing religious liberty. Jim Henderson Senior Counsel ACLJ___To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.eduTo subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlawPlease note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
From the list custodian
Title: Message Folks: I'm willing to cut people slack in times of obvious and understandable emotional upset, butit's still important to note that posts such as those below,though forgivable under the circumstances, are quiteinappropriate. You may have whatever views you want of fellow list members. But there is no reason to personally insult them on the list. If you're so angry that you feel you have to post something, wait until the anger goes away, and then ask whether you still want to post it. Jim used an admittedly tragic event -- an event that he himself described as tragic -- as a means of framing a legal question and a legal argument. This is pretty much what academic lawyers and legal academics do; think back to your crim law class. The tragedy of this event, of course, is unusually fresh. Perhaps some would prefer not to use it as grist for the legal argument mill right now. On the other hand, others might find that the freshness of the event makes it especially valuable.Nothing in Jim's post remotely justifies even a harshimpersonal denunciation, much less personal insult. Again, I realize that under these circumstances may say things that they wouldn't normally say; I therefore don't want to fault the author of the post below too much. But I do want to make clear that such posts ought not be posted. The list custodian -Original Message-From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of [EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 10:11 AMTo: religionlaw@lists.ucla.eduSubject: Re: Floodwaters and Undermined Walls Jim Henderson, you are beyond disgusting. People are dying. They were gasping out their last breaths or cradling a loved one--a child, a mother or father--in distress as you wrote your post. Save your idelogical arguments for another time. I'm sorry, Eugene, but this is too much so don't bother to scold/reprove. Perhaps I no longer want to be part of this listserv when one of its members demonstrates such cruel indifference to human grief and suffering. Frances R. A. Paterson, J.D., Ed.D.Associate ProfessorDepartment of Educational LeadershipValdosta State UniversityValdosta, GA 31698 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: New Orleans legal system
- Original Message - From: Richard Foltin [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu Sent: Thursday, September 01, 2005 4:26 PM Subject: New Orleans legal system Tangentially apropos of the interesting but assuredly academic discussion of Governor Blanco's call for prayer, here is an e-mail I received this afternoon detailing the very real -- and mind-boggling -- implications of the catastrophe for area lawyers, judges and the legal system. Richard Foltin The American Jewish Committee This is an email from a law professor at Southern University Law Center in Baton Rouge (she sent it to an ethics lawyers' listserv and it's made the rounds from there...) 5,000 - 6,000 lawyers (1/3 of the lawyers in Louisiana) have lost their offices, their libraries, their computers with all information thereon, their client files - possibly their clients, as one attorney who e-mailed me noted. As I mentioned before, they are scattered from Florida to Arizona and have nothing to return to. Their children's schools are gone and, optimistically, the school systems in 8 parishes/counties won't be re-opened until after December. They must re-locate their lives. Our state supreme court is under some water - with all appellate files and evidence folders/boxes along with it. The 5th Circuit Court of Appeals building is under some water - with the same effect. Right now there may only be 3-4 feet of standing water but, if you think about it, most files are kept in the basements or lower floors of courthouses. What effect will that have on the lives of citizens and lawyers throughout this state and this area of the country? And on the law? The city and district courts in as many as 8 parishes/counties are under water, as well as 3 of our circuit courts - with evidence/files at each of them ruined. The law enforcement offices in those areas are under water - again, with evidence ruined. 6,000 prisoners in 2 prisons and one juvenile facility are having to be securely relocated. We already have over-crowding at most Louisiana prisons and juvenile facilities. What effect will this have? And what happens when the evidence in their cases has been destroyed? Will the guilty be released upon the communities? Will the innocent not be able to prove their innocence? Our state bar offices are under water. Our state disciplinary offices are under water - again with evidence ruined. Of particular interest to you...our state disciplinary offices are located on Veteran's Blvd. in Metairie. Those of you who have been watching the news, they continue to show Veteran's Blvd. It's the shot with the destroyed Target store and shopping center under water and that looks like a long canal. Our Committee on Bar Admissions is located there and would have been housing the bar exams which have been turned in from the recent July bar exam (this is one time I'll pray the examiners were late in turning them in - we were set to meet in 2 weeks to go over the results). Will all of those new graduates have to retake the bar exam? Two of the 4 law schools in Louisiana are located in New Orleans (Loyola and Tulane - the 2 private ones that students have already paid about $8,000+ for this semester to attend). Another 1,000+ lawyers-to-be whose lives have been detoured. I've contacted professors at both schools but they can't reach anyone at those schools and don't know the amount of damage they've taken. Certainly, at least, this semester is over. I'm trying to reach the Chancellor's at Southern and LSU here in Baton Rouge to see if there's anything we can do to take in the students and/or the professors. I think I mentioned before, students from out of state have beens stranded at at least 2 of the other universities in New Orleans - they're moving up floor after floor as the water rises. Our local news station received a call from some medical students at Tulane Medical Center who were now on the 5th floor of the dormitories as the water had risen. One of them had had a heart attack and they h! ad no medical supplies and couldn't reach anyone - 911 was busy, local law enforcement couldn't be reached, they were going through the phone book and reached a news station 90 miles away!! It took the station almost 45 minutes to finally find someone with FEMA to try to get in to them!! And, then, there are the clients whose files are lost, whose cases are stymied. Their lives, too, are derailed. Of course, the vast majority live in the area and that's the least of their worries. But, the New Orleans firms also have a large national and international client base. For example, I received an e-mail from one attorney friend who I work with on some crucial domestic violence (spousal and child) cases around the nation - those clients could be seriously impacted by the loss, even temporarily, of their attorney - and he
