Re: Feature films on church and state
I appreciate the contributions on relevant films. My suggestion is a less obvious choice: Woody Allen's "Sleeper" (1973). It is less obvious, but it strikes at political control and the inept revolutionaries. It does not deal specificallywith religion, for the future group characters deal with sense effects or with philosophical messy thinking. [A number of Woody Allen's films deal with being the Jewish child up, especially "Annie Hall" (1977) and "Oedipus Wrecks" in "New York Stories" (1989).] By the way, "Becket" was first a play. Although it is a clear presentation for the law class, we should remember the play of "Becket" is, it seems to me, a misrepresentation of the history of the conflictof Henry II and Becketdisagree onwhether the trial for murder of two low clergy shouldbe controlled by the seculartrial or bythe court of the church. Bob O'Brien NTMail K12 - the Mail Server for Education ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Feature films on church and state
Here by the way is a very nice summary of Babylon 5 "The Believers" episode. RickRick Duncan Welpton Professor of Law University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE 68583-0902"When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle"I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Feature films on church and state
I read the summary Rick directed us to, and I'm a bit puzzled. The doctor intervened in a situation where (the summary says) "there are only two options--surgery or death." As a result of the intervention, the alien boy's physical life is preserved, but in the end his parents kill him because, as they put it, "This was not our son. This was only a shell. There was nothing to do but end the pain of the shell." What I'm puzzled about is why Rick describes this outcome as a disaster. It turns out that the (physical) outcome was death either way. And that death resulted from the parents' acting on their beliefs at least as much as from the surgeon's intervention. I suppose this might be described as a disaster if one shared the parents' religious beliefs -- but, because they are entirely fictional, I don't see how anyone could. It would be different if some obviously bad consequences occurred by means other than the parents' choices. One could describe the episode, as summarized, as about free will and determinism, or about the bad consequences of religious fanaticism. (One thing it's not about is the bad consequences of government intervention, because the surgeon refuses to comply with the government representative's direction not to perform the surgery.) Rick Duncan wrote: Here by the way is a very nice summary of Babylon 5 "The Believers" episode. Rick Rick Duncan Welpton Professor of Law University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE 68583-0902 "When the Round Table is broken every man must follow either Galahad or Mordred: middle things are gone." C.S.Lewis, Grand Miracle "I will not be pushed, filed, stamped, indexed, briefed, debriefed, or numbered." --The Prisoner Start your day with Yahoo! - make it your home page ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Feature films on church and state
Bob Jarvis and I are editing a casebook on law and film which Lexis will publish next year. Christine Corcos Associate Professor of Law Faculty Graduate Studies Program Supervisor Paul M. Hebert Law Center, Louisiana State University Associate Professor, Women's and Gender Studies Program LSU AM W325 Law Building 1 East Campus Drive Baton Rouge LA 70803 tel: 225/578-8327 fax: 225/578-3677 email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Feature films on church and state
Understanding why the outcome of this Babylon 5 episode was a "disaster" actually teaches an important point about the free exercise clause, I think. Prof. Tushnet's analysis is almost purely utilitarian, noting that the outcome was death either way. But, making the outcome the same either way is actually instructive because it removes the utilitarian aspect. As the events of the episode unfold, the doctor violates his ethics as well as the personal autonomy and dignity of his patient and the parents. One need not share the religious beliefs of the fictional aliens to see the difference between the events in this episode and death with dignity as a deontological disaster. By this analysis, by the way, I don't mean to endorse any particular position on parents' religious rights to refuse lifesaving medical treatment for their children... Allen Asch Star Trek and Babylon 5 fan In a message dated 8/12/2005 11:11:31 AM Pacific Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: I read the summary Rick directed us to, and I'm a bit puzzled. The doctor intervened in a situation where (the summary says) "there are only two options--surgery or death." As a result of the intervention, the alien boy's physical life is preserved, but in the end his parents kill him because, as they put it, "This was not our son. This was only a shell. There was nothing to do but end the pain of the shell." What I'm puzzled about is why Rick describes this outcome as a disaster. It turns out that the (physical) outcome was death either way. And that death resulted from the parents' acting on their beliefs at least as much as from the surgeon's intervention. I suppose this might be described as a disaster if one shared the parents' religious beliefs -- but, because they are entirely fictional, I don't see how anyone could. It would be different if some obviously bad consequences occurred by means other than the parents' choices. One could describe the episode, as summarized, as about free will and determinism, or about the bad consequences of religious fanaticism. (One thing it's not about is the bad consequences of government intervention, because the surgeon refuses to comply with the government representative's direction not to perform the surgery.)Rick Duncan wrote: Here by the way is a very nice summary of Babylon 5 "The Believers" episode. Rick ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Feature films on church and state
There's Becket (1964). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Douglas LaycockSent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:49 AMTo: Law Religion issues for Law AcademicsSubject: FW: Feature films on church and state Anyone have a good ideaon this query from my librarian: Doug, are you aware of any movies dealing with separation of church and state? I can't think of anything but Inherit the Wind,The Courageous Mr. Penn,Hitchcock's I Confess (sanctity of the confessional), and A Man for all Seasons. Douglas Laycock University of Texas Law School 727 E. Dean Keeton St. Austin, TX 78705 512-232-1341 (phone) 512-471-6988 (fax) ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Feature films on church and state
How about the great Ken Russell film "The Devils"?I haven't seen it in a long while, and some people hate it, but it was once on my personal top five list. Here's the IMDB description: "Cardinal Richelieu and his power-hungry entourage seek to take control of pre-rennaisance France, but need to destroy Father Grandier - the priest who runs the fortified town that prevents them from exerting total control. So they seek to destroy him by setting him up as a warlock in control of a devil-possessed nunnery, the mother superior of which is sexually obsessed by him. A mad witch-hunter is brought in to gather evidence against the priest, ready for the big trial." http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0066993/plotsummaryIt's quite something. Not for all tastes!AnnOn Aug 11, 2005, at 10:48 AM, Douglas Laycock wrote: Anyone have a good idea on this query from my librarian: Doug, are you aware of any movies dealing with separation of church and state? I can't think of anything but Inherit the Wind, The Courageous Mr. Penn, Hitchcock's I Confess (sanctity of the confessional), and A Man for all Seasons. Douglas Laycock University of Texas Law School 727 E. Dean Keeton St. Austin, TX 78705 512-232-1341 (phone) 512-471-6988 (fax)___To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.eduTo subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlawPlease note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Feature films on church and state
There have been a couple of episodes of the TV series of "The Practice" and "Law and Order" -- each in the last few years. [EMAIL PROTECTED] [Also: [EMAIL PROTECTED]] Visit our Web site at http://www.QueensChurches.org/ Rev. N. J. L'Heureux, Jr. Executive Director Queens Federation of Churches 86-17 105th Street Richmond Hill, New York 11418-1597 Voice (718) 847-6764 FAX (718) 847-7392 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Douglas LaycockSent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:49 AMTo: Law Religion issues for Law AcademicsSubject: FW: Feature films on church and state Anyone have a good ideaon this query from my librarian: Doug, are you aware of any movies dealing with separation of church and state? I can't think of anything but Inherit the Wind,The Courageous Mr. Penn,Hitchcock's I Confess (sanctity of the confessional), and A Man for all Seasons. Douglas Laycock University of Texas Law School 727 E. Dean Keeton St. Austin, TX 78705 512-232-1341 (phone) 512-471-6988 (fax) ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
RE: Feature films on church and state
Dear all, Laurence Olivier starred in a 1961 film version of Graham Greene's Power and the Glory. And, One Man's Hero (1999), starring Tom Berenger, is about the San Patricios (Irish-American soldiers who deserted during the Mexican-American war). Rick At 10:56 AM 8/11/2005, Roman P. Storzer wrote: There's Becket (1964). From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [ mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Douglas Laycock Sent: Thursday, August 11, 2005 11:49 AM To: Law Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: FW: Feature films on church and state Anyone have a good idea on this query from my librarian: Doug, are you aware of any movies dealing with separation of church and state? I can't think of anything but Inherit the Wind, The Courageous Mr. Penn, Hitchcock's I Confess (sanctity of the confessional), and A Man for all Seasons. Douglas Laycock University of Texas Law School 727 E. Dean Keeton St. Austin, TX 78705 512-232-1341 (phone) 512-471-6988 (fax) ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Feature films on church and state
I suppose "The Three Musketeers" is a bit over the top for this.I'm sure there's a good Henry VIII film too, though Becket serves this aspect well, it seems.On Aug 11, 2005, at 11:48 AM, Douglas Laycock wrote: Anyone have a good idea on this query from my librarian: Doug, are you aware of any movies dealing with separation of church and state? I can't think of anything but Inherit the Wind, The Courageous Mr. Penn, Hitchcock's I Confess (sanctity of the confessional), and A Man for all Seasons. Douglas Laycock University of Texas Law School 727 E. Dean Keeton St. Austin, TX 78705 512-232-1341 (phone) 512-471-6988 (fax)___To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.eduTo subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlawPlease note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others. -- Prof. Steven D. Jamar vox: 202-806-8017 Howard University School of Law fax: 202-806-8567 2900 Van Ness Street NW mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Washington, DC 20008 http://www.law.howard.edu/faculty/pages/jamar/ "Politics hates a vacuum. If it isn't filled with hope, someone will fill it with fear." Naomi Klein ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
