Re: Science Lecture

[Ed Darrell]

Yes, it's Constitutional; yes, a theologian may attempt a rebuttal; I think it 
might be unconstitutional for a theologian to insist on a right of rebuttal.

What rebuttal could a theologian offer? "Gravity may appear to be real, but 
your professor's telling you that it is not operated by God so far as we can 
tell is false.  The Earth sucks." 

Dr. Barash is saying there are certain facts in biology that challenge the 
faith of some; the facts will not go away.  

Most
 religious sects should have no difficulty with such a claim.  It is 
akin to malpractice for a biology professor to say something different. 
 Barash says that NOMA argument doesn't work down in the nitty-gritty 
details of biology.  

I suppose the theologian could say, "Oops, we were wrong; God is hiding in 
other gaps."  

Maybe
 I'm too deep in the science, but I fail to see any Constitutional issue
 here.  I see a social issue, that in my experience, especially with 
members of my somewhat liberal congregation, is resolved when the kids 
feel compelled to reject religion, not because of any conflict between 
science and religion, but because theologians who claim otherwise do so 
on the borders of reality and sanity, and the kids don't want to waste 
time with people who won't deal with life-threatening and life-saving 
reality.  (One distinguished microbiological researcher and one of my 
own kids, working in surgery, as examples.)

Facts are facts.  It would be unconstitutional, I think, to claim the professor 
cannot or should not explain that.  I think it's tragic when preachers (who 
rarely rise to the level of theologian in my experience) attempt to deny the 
facts, usually with much harrumphing and attempted ridicule of scientists and 
science.  Not unconstitutional, but tragic.  Denial of reality like that seems 
to me to fall into Sloth and Pride, especially when coming from theologians. 

Sitting on the razor in my Texas congregation,

Ed Darrell
Dallas


 


On Sunday, September 28, 2014 9:45 PM, "Finkelman, Paul" 
 wrote:
 

>
>
>[I posted this earlier but it does not look llike it was put up so I am 
>resending it.]
>
>
>Obviously yes, and yes.  How could it be otherwise?  If it is "no" or no and 
>no, then we have lost all ability to have free intellectual inquiry.  It would 
>not be proper (I am not sure if it would be constitutional) for either to 
>proselytize and it would certainly be improper to grade on religious belief.
>
>
>Indeed, its strikes me that this would be a great setting for a team taught 
>interdisciplinary course. 
>
>
>
>The only question is whether they teach "theology" at the university.  Some 
>state universities don't even teach religion (or at least they used to now 
>teach it.
>
>
>Paul Finkelman
>Scholar-in-Residence
>National Constitution Center
>and  
>Senior Fellow
>Penn Program on Democracy, Citizenship, and Constitutionalism
>University of Pennsylvania
> 
>
>
>*
>
>
>
>
> 
>From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] 
>on behalf of Marc Stern [ste...@ajc.org]
>Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:24 PM
>To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu; Law & Religion issues for Law Academics; 
>religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
>Subject: 
>
>
>
>
>Today's NY Times Review section has an article by a professor of evolutionary 
>biology at a public university describing a lecture he gives annually 
>explaining how that body of science ‎ has undermined central claims of 
>religious traditions.  
>
>
>Is it constitutional for him to give this lecture? Would it be constitutional 
>for a professor of theology at the same university to offer a rebuttal in 
>religious terms?
>
>
>Marc
>Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
>From: Rick Garnett
>Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 10:43 AM
>To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
>Reply To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
>Subject: Re: GW National Religious Freedom Moot Court Competition 
>
>Dear Chip, 
>
>
>Thanks for this.  I'm hoping that Notre Dame will send a team again.  All the 
>best,
>
>
>Rick
>
>
>Richard W. Garnett
>Professor of Law and Concurrent Professor of Political Science
>Director, Program on Church, State & Society
>Notre Dame Law School
>P.O. Box 780
>Notre Dame, Indiana 46556-0780
>574-631-6981 (w)
>574-276-2252 (cell)
>rgarn...@nd.edu
> 
>To download my scholarly papers, please visit my SSRN page
> 
>Blogs:
> 
>Prawfsblawg
>Mirror of Justice
> 
>Twitter:  @RickGarnett
>
>On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Ira Lupu  wrote:
>
>George Washington University will once again host the National Religious 
>Freedom Moot Court Competition, presented by the J. Reuben Clark Law Society. 
>The registration period is open from now until Nov. 15, 2014.  The problem 
>will be released on Nov. 17, 2014.  The competition will be held at GW on 
>Friday-Saturday, Feb. 6-7, 2015. The 2015 problem involves claims o

Science Lecture

[Finkelman, Paul]

[I posted this earlier but it does not look llike it was put up so I am 
resending it.]

Obviously yes, and yes.  How could it be otherwise?  If it is "no" or no and 
no, then we have lost all ability to have free intellectual inquiry.  It would 
not be proper (I am not sure if it would be constitutional) for either to 
proselytize and it would certainly be improper to grade on religious belief.

Indeed, its strikes me that this would be a great setting for a team taught 
interdisciplinary course.

The only question is whether they teach "theology" at the university.  Some 
state universities don't even teach religion (or at least they used to now 
teach it.

Paul Finkelman
Scholar-in-Residence
National Constitution Center
and
Senior Fellow
Penn Program on Democracy, Citizenship, and Constitutionalism
University of Pennsylvania


*


From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] 
on behalf of Marc Stern [ste...@ajc.org]
Sent: Sunday, September 28, 2014 5:24 PM
To: religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu; Law & Religion issues for Law Academics; 
religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu
Subject:


Today's NY Times Review section has an article by a professor of evolutionary 
biology at a public university describing a lecture he gives annually 
explaining how that body of science ‎ has undermined central claims of 
religious traditions.

Is it constitutional for him to give this lecture? Would it be constitutional 
for a professor of theology at the same university to offer a rebuttal in 
religious terms?

Marc
Sent from my BlackBerry 10 smartphone on the Verizon Wireless 4G LTE network.
From: Rick Garnett
Sent: Friday, September 26, 2014 10:43 AM
To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
Reply To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics
Subject: Re: GW National Religious Freedom Moot Court Competition


Dear Chip,

Thanks for this.  I'm hoping that Notre Dame will send a team again.  All the 
best,

Rick


Richard W. Garnett

Professor of Law and Concurrent Professor of Political Science

Director, Program on Church, State & Society

Notre Dame Law School

P.O. Box 780

Notre Dame, Indiana 46556-0780

574-631-6981 (w)

574-276-2252 (cell)

rgarn...@nd.edu



To download my scholarly papers, please visit my SSRN 
page



Blogs:



Prawfsblawg

Mirror of Justice



Twitter:  @RickGarnett

On Mon, Sep 22, 2014 at 4:34 PM, Ira Lupu 
mailto:icl...@law.gwu.edu>> wrote:
George Washington University will once again host the National Religious 
Freedom Moot Court Competition, presented by the J. Reuben Clark Law Society. 
The registration period is open from now until Nov. 15, 2014.  The problem will 
be released on Nov. 17, 2014.  The competition will be held at GW on 
Friday-Saturday, Feb. 6-7, 2015. The 2015 problem involves claims of conscience 
raised by teachers against a hypothetical law in Washington, D.C. that requires 
teachers and administrators to carry firearms on public school property during 
school hours.  More information here: http://www.religionmootcourt.org/  
(Ignore the Feb, 2014 dates at the top of the website).

--
Ira C. Lupu
F. Elwood & Eleanor Davis Professor of Law, Emeritus
George Washington University Law School
2000 H St., NW
Washington, DC 20052
(202)994-7053
Co-author (with Professor Robert Tuttle) of "Secular Government, Religious 
People" ( Wm. B. Eerdmans Pub. Co., 2014))
My SSRN papers are here:
http://papers.ssrn.com/sol3/cf_dev/AbsByAuth.cfm?per_id=181272#reg

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