Re: Selective Support of Religious Liberty
I agree with a lot of what Marty says here (although some of us see Newdow as a hecklers' veto case, rather than a religious liberty case). I was invited to participate in a debate last year at Miami Law on the ground zero mosque issue. Since I was the "conservative/FedSoc" tribute in these Hunger Games, I think everyone expected me to oppose the mosque. Instead, I showed up talking religious liberty under the 1A and RLUIPA! It wasn't much of a debate, but we had a great Program on religious liberty and religious land use. Rick Duncan Welpton Professor of Law University of Nebraska College of Law Lincoln, NE 68583-0902 "And against the constitution I have never raised a storm,It's the scoundrels who've corrupted it that I want to reform" --Dick Gaughan (from the song, Thomas Muir of Huntershill) --- On Sun, 3/4/12, Marty Lederman wrote: From: Marty Lederman Subject: Selective Support of Religious Liberty To: "Law & Religion issues for Law Academics" Date: Sunday, March 4, 2012, 4:16 AM Perhaps a topic worthy of its own dedicated thread: The phenomenon is hardly unique to the evangelical movement. Doug is of course correct that there are many lawyers and others, evangelical or otherwise, who do great work on behalf of religious liberty "for all." I am increasingly concerned, however, that the majority of self-professed religious liberty allies, who worked so well and sensitively together on matters such as RFRA and RLUIPA, are distressingly selective when it comes to their solicitude for the religious liberty (and equality) of nonmajoritarian religious observers. I am thinking, in particular, of the rather deafening lack of objection (on this list and in public), resources, amicus support, etc., in high-profile cases such as Simpson v. Chesterfield County (as clear a case of unjustifiable religious discrimination as one can imagine -- and one in which it was impossible to round up any support for amicus participation); Summum; Hernandez; most conspicuously and egregiously, the Park51/Cordoba House controversy; and, I would add, Newdow. The list could go on. There are, of course, exceptions -- very important exceptions. (See, e.g., Doug's own superlative brief in Newdow; AJC's amicus support in Hernandez) And I realize that every case has its own idiosyncracies and contested predicates. Still, I find myself increasingly dubious about whether the religious liberty "coalition" includes many who are truly dedicated to religious liberty, broadly speaking. I realize this is a sensitive and complex topic. And if it results primarily in acrimony here, I offer my apology in advance. But it seems to have been lurking beneath the surface of many cases discussed on this list over the past few years, and therefore I thought perhaps it warrants its own discussion, not least because I would love to be persuaded that my suspicions and disappointments are unwarranted. On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Douglas Laycock wrote: Well, I thought the e-mail below was going only to one person. So let me provide more context for the comment. Of course there are many tolerant people in the evangelical movement, including lawyers who do great work on behalf of religious liberty for all. They understand that religious liberty is not safe for anyone unless it protects everyone. But there are many others, whose work is dedicated to issues other than religious liberty, who have not thought about these issues and have not gotten that message. In my 25 years in Texas, I met and worked with and read reports of the comments of many evangelicals who were comfortable with diversity and tolerant of Jews and Muslims, and of many others who were not. And all I meant to say was that folks from the second group seem to be in control of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools. Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Douglas Laycock Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 11:26 AM To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics' Subject: RE: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath This morning's story in the Times confirms the unreconstructed Texans theory. It looks like the conservative evangelical schools have taken control of this organization, and tolerance of diversity has never been one of their strengths. Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 -Inline Attachment Follows- ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.
Selective Support of Religious Liberty
Perhaps a topic worthy of its own dedicated thread: The phenomenon is hardly unique to the evangelical movement. Doug is of course correct that there are many lawyers and others, evangelical or otherwise, who do great work on behalf of religious liberty "for all." I am increasingly concerned, however, that the majority of self-professed religious liberty allies, who worked so well and sensitively together on matters such as RFRA and RLUIPA, are distressingly selective when it comes to their solicitude for the religious liberty (and equality) of nonmajoritarian religious observers. I am thinking, in particular, of the rather deafening lack of objection (on this list and in public), resources, amicus support, etc., in high-profile cases such as Simpson v. Chesterfield County (as clear a case of unjustifiable religious discrimination as one can imagine -- and one in which it was impossible to round up any support for amicus participation); Summum; Hernandez; most conspicuously and egregiously, the Park51/Cordoba House controversy; and, I would add, Newdow. The list could go on. There are, of course, exceptions -- very important exceptions. (See, e.g., Doug's own superlative brief in Newdow; AJC's amicus support in Hernandez) And I realize that every case has its own idiosyncracies and contested predicates. Still, I find myself increasingly dubious about whether the religious liberty "coalition" includes many who are truly dedicated to religious liberty, broadly speaking. I realize this is a sensitive and complex topic. And if it results primarily in acrimony here, I offer my apology in advance. But it seems to have been lurking beneath the surface of many cases discussed on this list over the past few years, and therefore I thought perhaps it warrants its own discussion, not least because I would love to be persuaded that my suspicions and disappointments are unwarranted. On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Douglas Laycock wrote: > Well, I thought the e-mail below was going only to one person. So let me > provide more context for the comment. > > Of course there are many tolerant people in the evangelical movement, > including lawyers who do great work on behalf of religious liberty for all. > They understand that religious liberty is not safe for anyone unless it > protects everyone. But there are many others, whose work is dedicated to > issues other than religious liberty, who have not thought about these > issues > and have not gotten that message. In my 25 years in Texas, I met and worked > with and read reports of the comments of many evangelicals who were > comfortable with diversity and tolerant of Jews and Muslims, and of many > others who were not. And all I meant to say was that folks from the second > group seem to be in control of the Texas Association of Private and > Parochial Schools. > > Douglas Laycock > Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law > University of Virginia Law School > 580 Massie Road > Charlottesville, VA 22903 > 434-243-8546 > > > -Original Message- > From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu > [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu] On Behalf Of Douglas Laycock > Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 11:26 AM > To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics' > Subject: RE: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath > > This morning's story in the Times confirms the unreconstructed Texans > theory. It looks like the conservative evangelical schools have taken > control of this organization, and tolerance of diversity has never been one > of their strengths. > > Douglas Laycock > Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law > School > 580 Massie Road > Charlottesville, VA 22903 > 434-243-8546 > > > ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the list and read messages that are posted; people can read the Web archives; and list members can (rightly or wrongly) forward the messages to others.
Re: Selective Support of Religious Liberty
Marty is right. but the problem is not limited to the right. The "left" is completely unsympathetic to religious liberty claims in equality cases or reproductive rights cases. Look at hosanna tabor or christian legal society-the-latter struck me as an easy case the court got all wrong. but look at the line-up of amici. almost no crossing of lines. Among the causes are the difficulties in raising funds and rallying the troops from the middle-as well as a fundamental divide between those who prefer liberty rights to equality and those who think equality always trumps. Marc From: Marty Lederman [mailto:lederman.ma...@gmail.com] Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2012 07:16 AM To: Law & Religion issues for Law Academics Subject: Selective Support of Religious Liberty Perhaps a topic worthy of its own dedicated thread: The phenomenon is hardly unique to the evangelical movement. Doug is of course correct that there are many lawyers and others, evangelical or otherwise, who do great work on behalf of religious liberty "for all." I am increasingly concerned, however, that the majority of self-professed religious liberty allies, who worked so well and sensitively together on matters such as RFRA and RLUIPA, are distressingly selective when it comes to their solicitude for the religious liberty (and equality) of nonmajoritarian religious observers. I am thinking, in particular, of the rather deafening lack of objection (on this list and in public), resources, amicus support, etc., in high-profile cases such as Simpson v. Chesterfield County (as clear a case of unjustifiable religious discrimination as one can imagine -- and one in which it was impossible to round up any support for amicus participation); Summum; Hernandez; most conspicuously and egregiously, the Park51/Cordoba House controversy; and, I would add, Newdow. The list could go on. There are, of course, exceptions -- very important exceptions. (See, e.g., Doug's own superlative brief in Newdow; AJC's amicus support in Hernandez) And I realize that every case has its own idiosyncracies and contested predicates. Still, I find myself increasingly dubious about whether the religious liberty "coalition" includes many who are truly dedicated to religious liberty, broadly speaking. I realize this is a sensitive and complex topic. And if it results primarily in acrimony here, I offer my apology in advance. But it seems to have been lurking beneath the surface of many cases discussed on this list over the past few years, and therefore I thought perhaps it warrants its own discussion, not least because I would love to be persuaded that my suspicions and disappointments are unwarranted. On Sat, Mar 3, 2012 at 11:49 AM, Douglas Laycock mailto:dlayc...@virginia.edu>> wrote: Well, I thought the e-mail below was going only to one person. So let me provide more context for the comment. Of course there are many tolerant people in the evangelical movement, including lawyers who do great work on behalf of religious liberty for all. They understand that religious liberty is not safe for anyone unless it protects everyone. But there are many others, whose work is dedicated to issues other than religious liberty, who have not thought about these issues and have not gotten that message. In my 25 years in Texas, I met and worked with and read reports of the comments of many evangelicals who were comfortable with diversity and tolerant of Jews and Muslims, and of many others who were not. And all I meant to say was that folks from the second group seem to be in control of the Texas Association of Private and Parochial Schools. Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 -Original Message- From: religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu> [mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu<mailto:religionlaw-boun...@lists.ucla.edu>] On Behalf Of Douglas Laycock Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2012 11:26 AM To: 'Law & Religion issues for Law Academics' Subject: RE: Basketball tournaments on the Sabbath This morning's story in the Times confirms the unreconstructed Texans theory. It looks like the conservative evangelical schools have taken control of this organization, and tolerance of diversity has never been one of their strengths. Douglas Laycock Robert E. Scott Distinguished Professor of Law University of Virginia Law School 580 Massie Road Charlottesville, VA 22903 434-243-8546 ___ To post, send message to Religionlaw@lists.ucla.edu To subscribe, unsubscribe, change options, or get password, see http://lists.ucla.edu/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/religionlaw Please note that messages sent to this large list cannot be viewed as private. Anyone can subscribe to the li
