Re: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel DB212-3

[CookTowersInc]

It should work fine for you on the leg of
the tower but make sure that where you
clamp it to the leg of the tower that you 
clean off any paint. Clap your folded dipole
and then repaint. Or they just don't work
well at all. We have found this on installs
on our tower.
73 Dean, EE,PE.













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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Setting RX and TX audio levels from TDM/ E&M circuits

[nj902]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
"When connecting a transmitter and receiver to a TDM circuit with E&M
termination, what is the TX deviation setting for 0DBm of drive at
1004Hz?..."
__
_

The Motorola systems I have worked on all used a -10dBm test tone for
all level setting.  Receivers are set to deliver -10 for a 60%
deviation input and transmitters are set to modulate 60% when -10 is
applied.

Given that transmit audio voice peaks are specified in Motorola
documentation as being 6dB above average voice level, that puts peak
audio on these circuits at -4dBm which leaves quite a bit of headroom.







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 02:24 PM 1/28/05, you wrote:
>I started looking into a way of archiving the past messages in a searchable
>archive when I ran across www.mail-archive.com   I'd like to suggest to
>Kevin or whomever has the admin privledges for the group that the address
>archive@mail-archive.com be added to the list.  This will create an ongoing
>searchable archive of all the messages from the list.

Done

>If this is done, I'll
>transfer the last 15 months of messages I have personally archived.

Go ahead

If you have any gaps let me know.  I have 99% of
everything from June of 2003.

>If the moderators elect to do this you'll have to use yahoo's "add member"
>feature at the address
>http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/subs_add as the mail archive
>does not have the ability to reply with a confirmation message.
>
>Steve Passmore

Mike WA6ILQ  





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 08:13 PM 1/28/05, you wrote:

>Mike,
>
>what are you looking for?

Some way of archiving all the messages from Yahoogroups
into one all-text database so that someone who wants to
look up, for example, "DB-208", they can.

>and what platform to run it on?

well, the repeater-builder web site runs on IIS...

If there is a existing linux-based text search package out
there we can run it on some other server and link to it.

>I might take a stab at it.

Let's chat offline i.e. in private email.

>Kevin King SCSA BSCIS
>ARS KC6OVD
>GMRS KAG0378
>EIEIO 2722
>Acworth Georgia





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] VHF GE Mastr II mobile question

[rob . vance]

I believe they are only rated at 110 Watt max, I've never seen anything
rated at 120 watts.
A mobile heat sink is rated for something like a 20/80 duty cycle, Tx/RX
respectively.  I can tell you from experience, that you can run it reliably
at around 50-60% of full power IF you give it LOTS of Efficient cooling.  I
run three high speed high output 4.5 inch muffin fans on my repeater; with
the radio horizontal have 2 fans directly below and blowing a high volume of
air up through the heat sink.  I added a third fan to feed air into and an
exhaust from the bottom of the case directly under the PA transistor
mounting studs.  Make sure fans come on immediately with PTT and they should
continue to run until several minutes following repeaters final unkey.

Rob  K7EI   

-Original Message-
From: Chris Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 3:02 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF GE Mastr II mobile question



Hi all,

How much power can a 120W Mastr II mobile put out and safely be run
continuous duty?

Also, what are people doing for added cooling on these, if anything?

Thanks,
Chris








 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 
___
The information contained in this message and any attachment may be
proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work
product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify me
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it and all
copies and backups thereof.  Thank you.





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] VHF GE Mastr II mobile question

[rob . vance]

I believe they are only rated at 110 Watt max, I've never seen anything
rated at 120 watts.
A mobile heat sink is rated for something like a 20/80 duty cycle, Tx/RX
respectively.  I can tell you from experience, that you can run it reliably
at around 50-60% of full power IF you give it LOTS of Efficient cooling.  I
run three high speed high output 4.5 inch muffin fans on my repeater; with
the radio horizontal have 2 fans directly below and blowing a high volume of
air up through the heat sink.  I added a third fan to feed air into and an
exhaust from the bottom of the case directly under the PA transistor
mounting studs.  Make sure fans come on immediately with PTT and they should
continue to run until several minutes following repeaters final unkey.

Rob  K7EI   

-Original Message-
From: Chris Peterson [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 3:02 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VHF GE Mastr II mobile question



Hi all,

How much power can a 120W Mastr II mobile put out and safely be run
continuous duty?

Also, what are people doing for added cooling on these, if anything?

Thanks,
Chris








 
Yahoo! Groups Links



 
___
The information contained in this message and any attachment may be
proprietary, confidential, and privileged or subject to the work
product doctrine and thus protected from disclosure.  If the reader
of this message is not the intended recipient, or an employee or
agent responsible for delivering this message to the intended
recipient, you are hereby notified that any dissemination,
distribution or copying of this communication is strictly prohibited.
If you have received this communication in error, please notify me
immediately by replying to this message and deleting it and all
copies and backups thereof.  Thank you.





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Setting RX and TX audio levels from TDM/ E&M circuits

[hwstar]

When connecting a transmitter and receiver to a TDM circuit with E&M 
termination, what is the TX deviation setting for 0DBm of drive at 1004Hz?

Most TDM circuits will go to +5dbm before clipping, so is this extra headroom 
into account, or is 0DBm supposed to generate 5KHz of deviation at 1004 Hz?

Thanks,

Steve
WA6ZFT






 
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[Repeater-Builder] VHF GE Mastr II mobile question

[Chris Peterson]

Hi all,

How much power can a 120W Mastr II mobile put out and safely be run
continuous duty?

Also, what are people doing for added cooling on these, if anything?

Thanks,
Chris








 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ferrite bead choke balun at 70 cm?

[Chris Peterson]

You'd be better off just coiling up some of that coax in some tight turns at
the feedpoint.  You shouldn't ned that many turns at that freq.

73,
Chris, KG0BP



- Original Message -
From: "Mike Newman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Cc: "Jim" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:51 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Ferrite bead choke balun at 70 cm?


>
>
> Hi to the group.
>
> I'm looking for advice.
>
> I've modelled a 70 cm Moxon Rectangle - with impedance of 50+j0, and F/B
> around 30 dB.  The cardiod radiation pattern is ideal for my application -
a
> low-altitude 70 cm repeater on the perimeter of the service area, and
> co-sited with a 70 cm link repeater.  The service area covers less than 20
> square miles - filling in a gap in local coverage.  I need the rearward
null
> of the cardiod to minimise interference problems with a co-channel high
> altitude repeater 85 miles away.
>
> The antenna is balanced feed - so I need to decouple the coax feedline.
>
> The obvious choices (at least to me) are.
>
> 1.   Quarterwave coaxial sleeve balun:  this requires a bit of measurement
> and cutting, also waterproofing, and is not easy to fit in the physical
> arrangement.
>
> 2.   Ferrite bead choke balun:   dead easy to install, and doesn't
> compromise weatherproofness of the coax feedline.
>
> I have some ferrite beads which the supplier specifies as having 200 ohms
> impedance at 100 MHz, which snuggly fit on a short piece of RG400/U coax
> connecting to the main LDF5-50 feedline.
>
> But who knows what impedance they represent at at 70 cm?
>
> Can someone tell me about the effectiveness of ferrite bead choke baluns
at
> UHF and how to test this.
>
> What other options would achieve the desired results?
>
> Thanks
>
> MikeN,   ZL1BNB
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives

[Steven Passmore]

I started looking into a way of archiving the past messages in a searchable 
archive when I ran across www.mail-archive.comI'd like to suggest to 
Kevin or whomever has the admin privledges for the group that the address 
archive@mail-archive.com be added to the list.  This will create an ongoing 
searchable archive of all the messages from the list. If this is done, I'll 
transfer the last 15 months of messages I have personally archived.

If the moderators elect to do this you'll have to use yahoo's "add member" 
feature at the address 
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/subs_add as the mail archive 
does not have the ability to reply with a confirmation message.

Steve Passmore


- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Finch" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 6:35 AM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives


>
> That's one of the reasons there is so many people forgoing the archives 
> and
> asking the same question two months after it's been discussed at length
> here.  I have tried to use it before and gave up in disgust.
>
> Paul
>
>
> -Original Message-
> From: kg4wmp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:28 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives
>
>
>
>
> Well that kinda defeats the purpose don't you think?  How can you
> expect people to find what they want rather than ask the same stuff
> over and over.  Who's going to waste time hitting next, next, dang,
> an ad, next, next, next, (repeat 150 more times)
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> There "Should" be... and it "used-ta"...
>> not any more, and probably never again.
>> Hey - it's Yahoo.
>>
>>
>> > kg4wmp wrote:
>> > Is there a way to do a search of this whole archive?
>> > When I enter...
>> > ...  There's got to be a better way.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 





 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel DB212-3

[Paul Finch]

I have a couple of these antennas I am going 
to change to 6 meters.  One is going to be mounted on a 48 inch solid rod 
tower, the other will be on a 14 inch tower.  Does anyone have the specs on 
how they will work on the different size towers?  I am wanting a 
omni-directional pattern.
 
Also, has anyone ever lengthened one to 10 
meters?  I cut it off three times and it's still to short!  Just 
kidding there.  Where can I find the info on the phasing 
harnesses?
 
Paul
WB5IDM
 
 
 

  -Original Message-From: Dave Baughn 
  [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Sent: Friday, January 28, 2005 10:36 
  AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: 
  [Repeater-Builder] Decibel DB212-3
  According to the NAB Engineering Handbook, the gain of a stacked dipole 
  array peaks at just below one wavelength spacing (about 0.9 to 0.95). I 
  wouldn't go to 1 1/4, the gain will suffer some. If you try to maintain 0.9 
  wave (about 16' 8") and a tower member or something gets in the way, 
  just go a little wider to clear it. The effect will be minimal. The 
  aperture of the array is the main factor in determining the gain. One 
  wavelength works out to about 18' 7" and appears to be what DB is suggesting 
  and will work fine.
   
  My experience with broadcast antennas and repeaters confirms the above 
  theory.
   
  Dave BaughnDirector of EngineeringThe University of 
  AlabamaCenter for Public Television and RadioBox 870150Tuscaloosa, 
  Alabama 35487205.348.8622 cell 205-310-8798NEW EMAIL [EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/28/05 08:37AM >>>
  I'm making preparation to 
  install a Decibel model DB212-3 antenna. The antenna is a 3-element 
  folded dipole and it has been modified for the ham band. The antenna pattern 
  is directional so I will be mounting the dipoles on a single tower 
  leg. The tower face is 5-feet, leg diameter is 5 inch. What is the 
  optimum center to center vertical spacing of the element for 53.47/52.47 Mhz ? 
  The db spec sheet says anywhere between 3/4 on 1 1/4 wavelength 
  and suggest 19 ft. center to center at 50 Mhz. Anybody got any experience 
  with this ? As always thanks for your help.
   
  Jeff Corkren/W5PPB
  Raymond, 
  Mississippi













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[Repeater-Builder] Source for MRF654

[wn1b8]

Does anyone have a good source for MRF654 transistors? RF Parts 
wants over $25 each. That just seems a bit steep to me.

Thanks,

Scott Madison







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[albemarle7]

ED K3SWJ..please include me in your Mastr II information. I would love 
to learn more about the insides of these Mastr II radios.
Gary  K2UQ  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[albemarle7]

In a message dated 1/28/2005 6:21:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
http://www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/m2icoms.html

Thank you Mike Morris WA6ILQ, Scott Zimmerman N3XCC and Kevin Custer W3KKC 
for the excellent information and explanation article titled Various Types of GE 
Master II ICOMS. Been looking for this info for a long time. Just didn't know 
how/where to find it. Got it now.
What a fabulous group. 
Gary  K2UQ
 













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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Decibel DB212-3

[Dave Baughn]

According to the NAB Engineering Handbook, the gain of a stacked dipole 
array peaks at just below one wavelength spacing (about 0.9 to 0.95). I wouldn't 
go to 1 1/4, the gain will suffer some. If you try to maintain 0.9 wave (about 
16' 8") and a tower member or something gets in the way, just go a little 
wider to clear it. The effect will be minimal. The aperture of the array is the 
main factor in determining the gain. One wavelength works out to about 18' 7" 
and appears to be what DB is suggesting and will work fine.
 
My experience with broadcast antennas and repeaters confirms the above 
theory.
 
Dave BaughnDirector of EngineeringThe University of 
AlabamaCenter for Public Television and RadioBox 870150Tuscaloosa, 
Alabama 35487205.348.8622 cell 205-310-8798NEW EMAIL [EMAIL PROTECTED]>>> 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] 01/28/05 08:37AM >>>
I'm making preparation to 
install a Decibel model DB212-3 antenna. The antenna is a 3-element 
folded dipole and it has been modified for the ham band. The antenna pattern is 
directional so I will be mounting the dipoles on a single tower leg. The 
tower face is 5-feet, leg diameter is 5 inch. What is the optimum center to 
center vertical spacing of the element for 53.47/52.47 Mhz ? The db spec sheet 
says anywhere between 3/4 on 1 1/4 wavelength and suggest 19 ft. center to 
center at 50 Mhz. Anybody got any experience with this ? As always thanks for 
your help.
 
Jeff Corkren/W5PPB
Raymond, 
Mississippi













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[Repeater-Builder] wwvb Receiver

[Fred Seamans]

Does anybody have an older HP WWVB, 
60Khz receiver with the built in printer in their junk pile?
If so please contact me off line at [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Thanks
Fred
W5VAY













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[Repeater-Builder] Decibel DB212-3

[Jeff Corkren]

I'm making preparation to 
install a Decibel model DB212-3 antenna. The antenna is a 3-element 
folded dipole and it has been modified for the ham band. The antenna pattern is 
directional so I will be mounting the dipoles on a single tower leg. The 
tower face is 5-feet, leg diameter is 5 inch. What is the optimum center to 
center vertical spacing of the element for 53.47/52.47 Mhz ? The db spec sheet 
says anywhere between 3/4 on 1 1/4 wavelength and suggest 19 ft. center to 
center at 50 Mhz. Anybody got any experience with this ? As always thanks for 
your help.
 
Jeff Corkren/W5PPB
Raymond, 
Mississippi













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RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives

[Paul Finch]

That's one of the reasons there is so many people forgoing the archives and
asking the same question two months after it's been discussed at length
here.  I have tried to use it before and gave up in disgust.

Paul


-Original Message-
From: kg4wmp [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:28 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives




Well that kinda defeats the purpose don't you think?  How can you
expect people to find what they want rather than ask the same stuff
over and over.  Who's going to waste time hitting next, next, dang,
an ad, next, next, next, (repeat 150 more times)
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> There "Should" be... and it "used-ta"...
> not any more, and probably never again.
> Hey - it's Yahoo.
>
>
> > kg4wmp wrote:
> > Is there a way to do a search of this whole archive?
> > When I enter...
> > ...  There's got to be a better way.








Yahoo! Groups Links














 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives

[rs . gilmore]

Depends on who's deciding the purpose:
You'll first want to understand that the parameter is FIXED by Yahoo --
NOT list-owner selectable.

the WHY is open to speculation: -- best guesses:
:   #2 server-load/bandwidth
:   #1 more  $$ADS$$  to your eyeballs

To reiterate: [ it's Yahoo ] .. and that's the way it is.

Loosely Related:  Kinda makes the case to  those endless
requote-requote-requote replies, doesn't it.


> kg4wmp wrote:
> Well that kinda defeats the purpose don't you think?
> How can you expect people to find what they want ...







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Folded Dipole for 2 meters

[kf4vgx]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> Hello to the list. Can some one point me to a site where I can get 
the 
> specs for a folded dipole for 2 meter use? Thank you.
> 
> Rod KC7VQR


Tons of em,just type in folded dipole for 2 meter in a google search 
engine







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] searching archive here

[Ted Bleiman K9MDM - MDM Radio]

steve;
i like 'moose email' sounds kinda classy.
mdm tedSteven Passmore <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> That only searches the messages on your computer, moose email > programs.Darn spell check. Should have been, most email programsSteve P. Yahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/








Ted Bleiman K9MDM
MDM Radio Ltd - 1629-B N. 31 st Ave Melrose Park, IL 60160 708.681.0300 fax 708.681.9800 web http://www.mdmradio.com - 
Check it now!!
 
		Do you Yahoo!? 
The all-new My Yahoo! – What will yours do?

[Repeater-Builder] Folded Dipole for 2 meters

[rrath]

Hello to the list. Can some one point me to a site where I can get the 
specs for a folded dipole for 2 meter use? Thank you.

Rod KC7VQR





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Spacing Came Out Ok

[russ]

Boy the weather must be worse then it is around here. I think the sun gets
to the coax along with the pollution in the air. The harness
is about the only thing that gets one to fail here as a rule. I guess number
two is lighting.
I to have noted very small cracks but none of them had any effect on how the
DB-224(e) worked. Of Crosse it is 8 degrees now so I mite have to eat my
words if any water got in to any thing before the deep freezes hit.
Good luck!
73 Russ, W3CH

- Original Message - 
From: "kf0m" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 11:48 PM
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Spacing Came Out Ok


>
> As for what goes wrong with a DB224, my experience has not shown any
problem
> with the harness.
>
>  All of the problems I have found have been related to cracks in the
> elements.  I just removed three DB224E with the 37 inch elements in
> November.  All had been in place for about 10 years.  The coax harness on
> all looks fine.
>
> However, each element was cracked to some degree on the outer side of the
> lower loop right where it meets the large diameter arm that mounts it to
the
> mast.
>
> The other common place I have seen cracks on another DB224 that is over 15
> years old is the center of the U portion of the loop.  That is the point
> where the stress and thinning of the metal is the greatest due to the
effect
> of forming the element.  The crack usually occurs at the point where the
> drain hole is drilled.  Or sometimes I have seen a crack that looks like
the
> lower element filled with water and froze.
>
> The vast majority of cracks appear to fatigue based from element vibration
> stress rather than freezing water.
>
> I have also seen the plastic insulators at the feed point get brittle and
> fragile with age.
>
> So far the harnesses have looked good except for the tape that secures
them
> to the mast.
>
> John Lock KF0M
> Wichita KS
>  kf0m at arrl dot net
>
> > -Original Message-
> > From: russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:50 PM
> > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Spacing Came Out Ok
> >
> >
> >
> > Hey Mathew,
> > This is great news!
> > The DB-224 is a very good antenna and should
> > give you years of great service with the new harness. I think
> > that is about
> > the only thing that
> > ever goes wrong with them. Reminder to use some lock-tight before you
> > install it permanently.
> > Please let us all know how your test go!
> > Very best of 73,
> > Russ, W3CH
> >
> > - Original Message -
> > From: "w9mwq" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> > To: 
> > Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:00 PM
> > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Spacing Came Out Ok
> >
> >
> > >
> > >
> > > Well I applied the new harness to the DB-224 today and it came out
> > > just fine.  Actually the element's did not end up into the mounting
> > > section of the antenna like I had thought it would.  As it turns
> > > out, I had to move the bottom elemnet up an inch or so.  It looks as
> > > if the previous owner had moved the elements, but never changed the
> > > harness.  SO hopefully the weather will be decent Saturday and I can
> > > take it outside and test it.  Thanks for all the input.
> > >
> > > Mathew
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Yahoo! Groups Links
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[Fred Seamans]

Coy; I would suggest that you add the following after "--- million." in you
descriptions of the 5C and 2C ICOM's; " over the temperature range of  -40
Deg.C. to +70 Deg.C. providing you set the initial frequency of the ICOM as
described in the GE MASTR II manual." Less you move the crystal's "S" curve
up/down on the temperature curve and then the ICOM will not meet the
speciation at the extremes of the temperature range.
Thanks
Fred
W5VAY



- Original Message -
From: "Coy Hilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 10:13 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II


>
>
> Actually a 2C ICOM is internally compensated and will not compensate
> any other ICOM it's Compensation pin is not connected internally.
>  All ICOMS will stay with in 2 parts per million with in the "
> normal temp range". It's when you get to the "extreme" rang of temps
> that the compensation takes over. Before you slam me read your
> manual carefully.
> Here is what it all means:
> EC = "Externally Compensated"
> 5C = "Internally Compensated to remain with in 5 Parts per million
>and will compensate all other ICOMS except 2C.
> 2C = "Internally Compensated only and will not compensate external
>   ICOMS and will keep it's frequency with in 2 parts per million"
> 73
> AC0Y
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "edctexas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> >
> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kg4wmp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> wrote:
> > >
> > >  I could find nothing
> > > specific on why a radio whould need 4 (or more) 5C's and 1 EC.
> Do
> > > they take an average over several crystals or something or was
> this
> > > a function of multiple channels?
> >
> >
> > Normally a mobile set only needs one 5C or 2C ICOM.  The EC units
> are
> > slaved to the correction that the 5C creates for itself. The radio
> > could have the buss cut and use separate Master and slaves for TX
> and
> > RX.  It is not normally recommended to use multiple 5C units.
> This
> > will cause the units to fight each other.  Theeir temp. comp. will
> > not be correct.  But on low band and for ham use, put in what you
> got
> > and use it.  Some of the MII repeaters in this area don't bother
> with
> > any temp. comp. at all.
> >
> > The master ICOM has a selected thermistor and resistor combination
> > which produces a correction voltage to a tuning diode (varicap).
> If
> > I remember right the 2C units have to have the parts selected, but
> > the 5C units don't.  The EC units have the tuning diode and get
> the
> > correction voltage from the master. If two masters are tied
> together
> > the voltages fight.
> >
> > Some guys use EC ICOMs and modulate the varicap.  Its good FM but
> > generally low deviation.  Most repeaters source their +10V from a
> > separate source for TX and RX.  This separation prevents any RX
> side
> > noise from adding spurious to the TX. Simplex transmitters don't
> have
> > the problem as the RX is off during TX.  Repeaters do have the
> > problem without this extra separation.
> >
> > More GE trivia! WE can take this off line if you'd like more poop.
> R-
> > B website that Kevin has is a great source book.  Once you get a
> > manual your off.  Many mobile use the same key.  I'm not sure if
> the
> > station key or the mobile key is stamped BF-10 anymore.  Nearly
> any
> > 2way shop has a ley to unlock it.  I'd just use the master key
> > (electirc drill).  Then vaccuum the mess out of the radio.
> >
> > 73 Ed K3SWJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>






 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[Kevin Custer]

kg4wmp wrote:

>This is the exact info I was after on the ICOM's.  Why is this not 
>on the repeater builder website?
>

It is, plus a whole lot more:


Kevin Custer
Owner





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

It is.

Look at ,
scroll down to "Mastr II Misc" then look at the second item.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 08:24 PM 1/27/05, you wrote:

>This is the exact info I was after on the ICOM's.  Why is this not
>on the repeater builder website?
>
>
>--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "edctexas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> >
> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kg4wmp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>wrote:
> > >
> > >  I could find nothing
> > > specific on why a radio whould need 4 (or more) 5C's and 1 EC.
>Do
> > > they take an average over several crystals or something or was
>this
> > > a function of multiple channels?
> >
> >
> > Normally a mobile set only needs one 5C or 2C ICOM.  The EC units
>are
> > slaved to the correction that the 5C creates for itself. The radio
> > could have the buss cut and use separate Master and slaves for TX
>and
> > RX.  It is not normally recommended to use multiple 5C units.
>This
> > will cause the units to fight each other.  Theeir temp. comp. will
> > not be correct.  But on low band and for ham use, put in what you
>got
> > and use it.  Some of the MII repeaters in this area don't bother
>with
> > any temp. comp. at all.
> >
> > The master ICOM has a selected thermistor and resistor combination
> > which produces a correction voltage to a tuning diode (varicap).
>If
> > I remember right the 2C units have to have the parts selected, but
> > the 5C units don't.  The EC units have the tuning diode and get
>the
> > correction voltage from the master. If two masters are tied
>together
> > the voltages fight.
> >
> > Some guys use EC ICOMs and modulate the varicap.  Its good FM but
> > generally low deviation.  Most repeaters source their +10V from a
> > separate source for TX and RX.  This separation prevents any RX
>side
> > noise from adding spurious to the TX. Simplex transmitters don't
>have
> > the problem as the RX is off during TX.  Repeaters do have the
> > problem without this extra separation.
> >
> > More GE trivia! WE can take this off line if you'd like more poop.
>R-
> > B website that Kevin has is a great source book.  Once you get a
> > manual your off.  Many mobile use the same key.  I'm not sure if
>the
> > station key or the mobile key is stamped BF-10 anymore.  Nearly
>any
> > 2way shop has a ley to unlock it.  I'd just use the master key
> > (electirc drill).  Then vaccuum the mess out of the radio.
> >
> > 73 Ed K3SWJ
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

If anybody wants to write a sort-the-archives application I can
contribute everything from June of 2003.

Mike WA6ILQ

At 08:27 PM 1/27/05, you wrote:

>Well that kinda defeats the purpose don't you think?  How can you
>expect people to find what they want rather than ask the same stuff
>over and over.  Who's going to waste time hitting next, next, dang,
>an ad, next, next, next, (repeat 150 more times)
>--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> >
> > There "Should" be... and it "used-ta"...
> > not any more, and probably never again.
> > Hey - it's Yahoo.
> >
> >
> > > kg4wmp wrote:
> > > Is there a way to do a search of this whole archive?
> > > When I enter...
> > > ...  There's got to be a better way.
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[kg4wmp]

Yea, fairly simple task to start off with, just set it up for 52.525 
simplex.  it came in the mail today, but I can only see the outside 
of it, I have no key.  Some rust on outside, but in all looks good.  
Man it's bigger then I thought it would be, and heavier.  Technology 
sure has improved over the years.  Look at my 706 and all the bands 
it can do with 100w. hi hi.  I yearn for the satisfaction of taking 
this MII and making it work on 6M though.  Off to a locksmith 
tomorrow to see if I can get a BF10A key made.  Control set should 
be on the way soon.  All I need now is a manual.  I appreciate all 
the help and I'm sure I will need more before its over.  

Joe

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "Coy Hilton" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> Yep, Now you are an expert on ICOMS. See how easy that was.
> If it's that cold I'm trying to find my way back to Florida or 
> atleast some where that's warm.
> 73
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kg4wmp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> wrote:
> > 
> > From what I just read earlier today, the 5C will compensate 2 
ppm 
> in 
> > the "normal operating range" and only falls to 5ppm at the 
extreme 
> > cold and hots (-40 to +150something I think).  For all practical 
> > purposes a 5C should do the trick for me.  If I'm operating at -
40 
> I 
> > will be shivering too much to talk anyway.
> > 
> > --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > > Actually, doesn't the 5C specs say it will compensate up to X 
> > number of
> > > ECs? (Not that it matters much for repeaters...)
> > > 
> > > Joe M.
> > > 
> > > Coy Hilton wrote:
> > > > 
> > > > Actually a 2C ICOM is internally compensated and will not 
> > compensate
> > > > any other ICOM it's Compensation pin is not connected 
> internally.
> > > >  All ICOMS will stay with in 2 parts per million with in 
the "
> > > > normal temp range". It's when you get to the "extreme" rang 
of 
> > temps
> > > > that the compensation takes over. Before you slam me read 
your
> > > > manual carefully.
> > > > Here is what it all means:
> > > > EC = "Externally Compensated"
> > > > 5C = "Internally Compensated to remain with in 5 Parts per 
> > million
> > > >and will compensate all other ICOMS except 2C.
> > > > 2C = "Internally Compensated only and will not compensate 
> > external
> > > >   ICOMS and will keep it's frequency with in 2 parts per 
> > million"
> > > > 73
> > > > AC0Y







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Off Topic: Looking for a job?

[John Everson]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> As many of you know, I've been looking for permanent
> employment for a while (10+ years in computer
> networks integration / administration / support).
> 
> I received this in email from a friend and I don't
> think I'll be applying...
> 
> The $35 per day per diem raises the salary to over
> $4300/mo or $52,000/yr...
> 
> If I was single and in my twenties... it'd be tempting...
> No taxes makes the resident equivalent to over $62k per
> year (assuming 20% taxes, most folks pay more).
> 
>  >Date: Tue, 25 Jan 2005 05:39:36 -0800
>  >
>  >  Looking for a new job?
>  >
Seeing this gives me a reason to think. I have been in the auto 
repair field for 25 years. A friend called the other day to inform me 
that there were openings for auto/truck technicians with ASE Master 
Tech  Certification that was current. The prerequisites was the usual 
plus additional experience with labor management. The STARTING pay, 
Ready for this? $180,000 a year capping out at $250,000 D.O.E.

Man, it's tempting. Perhaps after the election?

John







 
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RE: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Spacing Came Out Ok

[kf0m]

As for what goes wrong with a DB224, my experience has not shown any problem
with the harness.

 All of the problems I have found have been related to cracks in the
elements.  I just removed three DB224E with the 37 inch elements in
November.  All had been in place for about 10 years.  The coax harness on
all looks fine.

However, each element was cracked to some degree on the outer side of the
lower loop right where it meets the large diameter arm that mounts it to the
mast.

The other common place I have seen cracks on another DB224 that is over 15
years old is the center of the U portion of the loop.  That is the point
where the stress and thinning of the metal is the greatest due to the effect
of forming the element.  The crack usually occurs at the point where the
drain hole is drilled.  Or sometimes I have seen a crack that looks like the
lower element filled with water and froze.

The vast majority of cracks appear to fatigue based from element vibration
stress rather than freezing water.

I have also seen the plastic insulators at the feed point get brittle and
fragile with age.

So far the harnesses have looked good except for the tape that secures them
to the mast.

John Lock KF0M
Wichita KS
 kf0m at arrl dot net

> -Original Message-
> From: russ [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 4:50 PM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Spacing Came Out Ok
>
>
>
> Hey Mathew,
> This is great news!
> The DB-224 is a very good antenna and should
> give you years of great service with the new harness. I think
> that is about
> the only thing that
> ever goes wrong with them. Reminder to use some lock-tight before you
> install it permanently.
> Please let us all know how your test go!
> Very best of 73,
> Russ, W3CH
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "w9mwq" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> To: 
> Sent: Thursday, January 27, 2005 5:00 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] DB-224 Spacing Came Out Ok
>
>
> >
> >
> > Well I applied the new harness to the DB-224 today and it came out
> > just fine.  Actually the element's did not end up into the mounting
> > section of the antenna like I had thought it would.  As it turns
> > out, I had to move the bottom elemnet up an inch or so.  It looks as
> > if the previous owner had moved the elements, but never changed the
> > harness.  SO hopefully the weather will be decent Saturday and I can
> > take it outside and test it.  Thanks for all the input.
> >
> > Mathew
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[Coy Hilton]

Yep, Now you are an expert on ICOMS. See how easy that was.
If it's that cold I'm trying to find my way back to Florida or 
atleast some where that's warm.
73

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kg4wmp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> From what I just read earlier today, the 5C will compensate 2 ppm 
in 
> the "normal operating range" and only falls to 5ppm at the extreme 
> cold and hots (-40 to +150something I think).  For all practical 
> purposes a 5C should do the trick for me.  If I'm operating at -40 
I 
> will be shivering too much to talk anyway.
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> > Actually, doesn't the 5C specs say it will compensate up to X 
> number of
> > ECs? (Not that it matters much for repeaters...)
> > 
> > Joe M.
> > 
> > Coy Hilton wrote:
> > > 
> > > Actually a 2C ICOM is internally compensated and will not 
> compensate
> > > any other ICOM it's Compensation pin is not connected 
internally.
> > >  All ICOMS will stay with in 2 parts per million with in the "
> > > normal temp range". It's when you get to the "extreme" rang of 
> temps
> > > that the compensation takes over. Before you slam me read your
> > > manual carefully.
> > > Here is what it all means:
> > > EC = "Externally Compensated"
> > > 5C = "Internally Compensated to remain with in 5 Parts per 
> million
> > >and will compensate all other ICOMS except 2C.
> > > 2C = "Internally Compensated only and will not compensate 
> external
> > >   ICOMS and will keep it's frequency with in 2 parts per 
> million"
> > > 73
> > > AC0Y







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[kg4wmp]

>From what I just read earlier today, the 5C will compensate 2 ppm in 
the "normal operating range" and only falls to 5ppm at the extreme 
cold and hots (-40 to +150something I think).  For all practical 
purposes a 5C should do the trick for me.  If I'm operating at -40 I 
will be shivering too much to talk anyway.

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, mch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Actually, doesn't the 5C specs say it will compensate up to X 
number of
> ECs? (Not that it matters much for repeaters...)
> 
> Joe M.
> 
> Coy Hilton wrote:
> > 
> > Actually a 2C ICOM is internally compensated and will not 
compensate
> > any other ICOM it's Compensation pin is not connected internally.
> >  All ICOMS will stay with in 2 parts per million with in the "
> > normal temp range". It's when you get to the "extreme" rang of 
temps
> > that the compensation takes over. Before you slam me read your
> > manual carefully.
> > Here is what it all means:
> > EC = "Externally Compensated"
> > 5C = "Internally Compensated to remain with in 5 Parts per 
million
> >and will compensate all other ICOMS except 2C.
> > 2C = "Internally Compensated only and will not compensate 
external
> >   ICOMS and will keep it's frequency with in 2 parts per 
million"
> > 73
> > AC0Y







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: searching archives

[kg4wmp]

Well that kinda defeats the purpose don't you think?  How can you 
expect people to find what they want rather than ask the same stuff 
over and over.  Who's going to waste time hitting next, next, dang, 
an ad, next, next, next, (repeat 150 more times)  
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
> 
> There "Should" be... and it "used-ta"...
> not any more, and probably never again.
> Hey - it's Yahoo.
> 
> 
> > kg4wmp wrote:
> > Is there a way to do a search of this whole archive?
> > When I enter...
> > ...  There's got to be a better way.







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[mch]

Actually, doesn't the 5C specs say it will compensate up to X number of
ECs? (Not that it matters much for repeaters...)

Joe M.

Coy Hilton wrote:
> 
> Actually a 2C ICOM is internally compensated and will not compensate
> any other ICOM it's Compensation pin is not connected internally.
>  All ICOMS will stay with in 2 parts per million with in the "
> normal temp range". It's when you get to the "extreme" rang of temps
> that the compensation takes over. Before you slam me read your
> manual carefully.
> Here is what it all means:
> EC = "Externally Compensated"
> 5C = "Internally Compensated to remain with in 5 Parts per million
>and will compensate all other ICOMS except 2C.
> 2C = "Internally Compensated only and will not compensate external
>   ICOMS and will keep it's frequency with in 2 parts per million"
> 73
> AC0Y





 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[kg4wmp]

This is the exact info I was after on the ICOM's.  Why is this not 
on the repeater builder website?


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "edctexas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kg4wmp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > 
> >  I could find nothing 
> > specific on why a radio whould need 4 (or more) 5C's and 1 EC.  
Do 
> > they take an average over several crystals or something or was 
this 
> > a function of multiple channels?
> 
> 
> Normally a mobile set only needs one 5C or 2C ICOM.  The EC units 
are 
> slaved to the correction that the 5C creates for itself. The radio 
> could have the buss cut and use separate Master and slaves for TX 
and 
> RX.  It is not normally recommended to use multiple 5C units.  
This 
> will cause the units to fight each other.  Theeir temp. comp. will 
> not be correct.  But on low band and for ham use, put in what you 
got 
> and use it.  Some of the MII repeaters in this area don't bother 
with 
> any temp. comp. at all.  
> 
> The master ICOM has a selected thermistor and resistor combination 
> which produces a correction voltage to a tuning diode (varicap).  
If 
> I remember right the 2C units have to have the parts selected, but 
> the 5C units don't.  The EC units have the tuning diode and get 
the 
> correction voltage from the master. If two masters are tied 
together 
> the voltages fight.
> 
> Some guys use EC ICOMs and modulate the varicap.  Its good FM but 
> generally low deviation.  Most repeaters source their +10V from a 
> separate source for TX and RX.  This separation prevents any RX 
side 
> noise from adding spurious to the TX. Simplex transmitters don't 
have 
> the problem as the RX is off during TX.  Repeaters do have the 
> problem without this extra separation.
> 
> More GE trivia! WE can take this off line if you'd like more poop. 
R-
> B website that Kevin has is a great source book.  Once you get a 
> manual your off.  Many mobile use the same key.  I'm not sure if 
the 
> station key or the mobile key is stamped BF-10 anymore.  Nearly 
any 
> 2way shop has a ley to unlock it.  I'd just use the master key 
> (electirc drill).  Then vaccuum the mess out of the radio.
> 
> 73 Ed K3SWJ







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[Coy Hilton]

Actually a 2C ICOM is internally compensated and will not compensate 
any other ICOM it's Compensation pin is not connected internally.
 All ICOMS will stay with in 2 parts per million with in the " 
normal temp range". It's when you get to the "extreme" rang of temps 
that the compensation takes over. Before you slam me read your 
manual carefully.
Here is what it all means:
EC = "Externally Compensated"
5C = "Internally Compensated to remain with in 5 Parts per million
   and will compensate all other ICOMS except 2C.
2C = "Internally Compensated only and will not compensate external
  ICOMS and will keep it's frequency with in 2 parts per million"
73
AC0Y
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "edctexas" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kg4wmp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> > 
> >  I could find nothing 
> > specific on why a radio whould need 4 (or more) 5C's and 1 EC.  
Do 
> > they take an average over several crystals or something or was 
this 
> > a function of multiple channels?
> 
> 
> Normally a mobile set only needs one 5C or 2C ICOM.  The EC units 
are 
> slaved to the correction that the 5C creates for itself. The radio 
> could have the buss cut and use separate Master and slaves for TX 
and 
> RX.  It is not normally recommended to use multiple 5C units.  
This 
> will cause the units to fight each other.  Theeir temp. comp. will 
> not be correct.  But on low band and for ham use, put in what you 
got 
> and use it.  Some of the MII repeaters in this area don't bother 
with 
> any temp. comp. at all.  
> 
> The master ICOM has a selected thermistor and resistor combination 
> which produces a correction voltage to a tuning diode (varicap).  
If 
> I remember right the 2C units have to have the parts selected, but 
> the 5C units don't.  The EC units have the tuning diode and get 
the 
> correction voltage from the master. If two masters are tied 
together 
> the voltages fight.
> 
> Some guys use EC ICOMs and modulate the varicap.  Its good FM but 
> generally low deviation.  Most repeaters source their +10V from a 
> separate source for TX and RX.  This separation prevents any RX 
side 
> noise from adding spurious to the TX. Simplex transmitters don't 
have 
> the problem as the RX is off during TX.  Repeaters do have the 
> problem without this extra separation.
> 
> More GE trivia! WE can take this off line if you'd like more poop. 
R-
> B website that Kevin has is a great source book.  Once you get a 
> manual your off.  Many mobile use the same key.  I'm not sure if 
the 
> station key or the mobile key is stamped BF-10 anymore.  Nearly 
any 
> 2way shop has a ley to unlock it.  I'd just use the master key 
> (electirc drill).  Then vaccuum the mess out of the radio.
> 
> 73 Ed K3SWJ







 
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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[Coy Hilton]

Here is a line that I have found to be very true.
THE ONLY STUPID QUESTION IS THE ONE THAT GOES UN-ASKED AND NOT 
UNDERSTOOD.
I think that you will find that the MASTRII is likely the finest 25 
year old piece of technology that the ham has access to. I think 
that you will grow to respect it as many of us has for years.
73
AC0Y

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL 
PROTECTED]> 
wrote:
> 
> 
> Hello group,
> I have just purchased a GE Mastr II low band radio to start off my 
experimenting with some of the available commercial radios and the 
possibility of one day building a repeater on 2m or 440.  I am a 
tinkerer at heart and would rather build my own stuff than buy it so 
I'm hoping I will fit in here.  From what I have read, MAstr II's 
are as good a starting place as any and offer some good options for 
what you can do.  I am also looking at tinkering with a Motorola in 
the future, but for now it's a GE to start with.  Hope that was a 
good choice.
> 
> My goal at first is to get the thing operational on 52.525 to use 
simplex mobile.  This should give me some experience with the radio 
and its internal workings, tuning, and general operation.  I have 
purchased the bare radio on Ebay as you can see here: 
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3868675552
> I figure the $25 bucks is worth tinkering with it some.  Hopefully 
it has the ICOMs in it since it's locked.
> 
> Here's the questions I have:
> 1)Am I going to have to find a key before I can even check this 
thing out or is there a way to get inside without it?
> 2) I am on the lookout for a mike, cables, and control head for 
this thing now.  Are they all the same for the different Mastr II's 
like the VHF, UHF, low band or am I going to have to find one 
specifically for 50 MHz?
> 3) Where can I find more info about this whole ICOM thing?  I 
understand that they are housings for crystals, but can I just order 
the right crystals and replace them in these housings?  This whole 
2C 5C EC thing is confusing.  Maybe this will all make sense when I 
eventually get my hands on the radio.
> 
> Thanks guys, hope these aren't stupid questions.  As this is my 
first attempt at working with any "non ham" radio off the shelf I 
need a lot of help.  I did a search on this list for any info on the 
Mastr II and didn't come up with much specific info.  The repeater 
builder site has useful information, but some of it is over my head 
right now and assumes some general knowledge about some things that 
i just don't know yet.
> 
> Joe
> KG4WMP







 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ferrite bead choke balun at 70 cm?

[Bob Dengler]

At 1/27/2005 03:51 PM, you wrote:


>Hi to the group.
>
>I'm looking for advice.
>
>I've modelled a 70 cm Moxon Rectangle - with impedance of 50+j0, and F/B
>around 30 dB.  The cardiod radiation pattern is ideal for my application - a
>low-altitude 70 cm repeater on the perimeter of the service area, and
>co-sited with a 70 cm link repeater.  The service area covers less than 20
>square miles - filling in a gap in local coverage.  I need the rearward null
>of the cardiod to minimise interference problems with a co-channel high
>altitude repeater 85 miles away.
>
>The antenna is balanced feed - so I need to decouple the coax feedline.
>
>The obvious choices (at least to me) are.
>
>1.   Quarterwave coaxial sleeve balun:  this requires a bit of measurement
>and cutting, also waterproofing, and is not easy to fit in the physical
>arrangement.
>
>2.   Ferrite bead choke balun:   dead easy to install, and doesn't
>compromise weatherproofness of the coax feedline.
>
>I have some ferrite beads which the supplier specifies as having 200 ohms
>impedance at 100 MHz, which snuggly fit on a short piece of RG400/U coax
>connecting to the main LDF5-50 feedline.
>
>But who knows what impedance they represent at at 70 cm?

The big problem is loss.  If the beads are lossy at 70 cm you won't know 
from the VSWR but your antenna efficiency will be degraded.

You could try pumping high power into it & see if the beads heat 
up.  That's how I determined that a large ferrite donut I tried to use on 
the feed of my Gap Titan was NG for HF.  I later found out that the 
material was only sped'd up to 1 MHz.  It still choked off the RF but it 
also dissipated it; good for RFI on phone lines, etc. but not on a TX 
antenna feed.


>Can someone tell me about the effectiveness of ferrite bead choke baluns at
>UHF and how to test this.
>
>What other options would achieve the desired results?

I'd say go with a 1/4 wave sleeve balun.  Guaranteed low loss.

Bob NO6B






 
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[Repeater-Builder] Ferrite bead choke balun at 70 cm?

[Mike Newman]

Hi to the group.

I'm looking for advice.

I've modelled a 70 cm Moxon Rectangle - with impedance of 50+j0, and F/B
around 30 dB.  The cardiod radiation pattern is ideal for my application - a
low-altitude 70 cm repeater on the perimeter of the service area, and
co-sited with a 70 cm link repeater.  The service area covers less than 20
square miles - filling in a gap in local coverage.  I need the rearward null
of the cardiod to minimise interference problems with a co-channel high
altitude repeater 85 miles away.

The antenna is balanced feed - so I need to decouple the coax feedline.

The obvious choices (at least to me) are.

1.   Quarterwave coaxial sleeve balun:  this requires a bit of measurement
and cutting, also waterproofing, and is not easy to fit in the physical
arrangement.

2.   Ferrite bead choke balun:   dead easy to install, and doesn't
compromise weatherproofness of the coax feedline.

I have some ferrite beads which the supplier specifies as having 200 ohms
impedance at 100 MHz, which snuggly fit on a short piece of RG400/U coax
connecting to the main LDF5-50 feedline.

But who knows what impedance they represent at at 70 cm?

Can someone tell me about the effectiveness of ferrite bead choke baluns at
UHF and how to test this.

What other options would achieve the desired results?

Thanks

MikeN,   ZL1BNB








 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Starting out with a Mastr II

[Ralph Mowery]

--- "[EMAIL PROTECTED]" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> 
> 
> 
> Hello group,
> I have just purchased a GE Mastr II low band radio
> to start off my experimenting with some of the
> available commercial radios and the possibility of
> one day building a repeater on 2m or 440.  I am a
> tinkerer at heart and would rather build my own
> stuff than buy it so I'm hoping I will fit in here. 
> From what I have read, MAstr II's are as good a
> starting place as any and offer some good options
> for what you can do.  I am also looking at tinkering
> with a Motorola in the future, but for now it's a GE
> to start with.  Hope that was a good choice.
> 
> My goal at first is to get the thing operational on
> 52.525 to use simplex mobile.  This should give me
> some experience with the radio and its internal
> workings, tuning, and general operation.  I have
> purchased the bare radio on Ebay as you can see
> here:
>
http://cgi.ebay.com/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&rd=1&item=3868675552
> I figure the $25 bucks is worth tinkering with it
> some.  Hopefully it has the ICOMs in it since it's
> locked.
> 
> Here's the questions I have:
> 1)Am I going to have to find a key before I can even
> check this thing out or is there a way to get inside
> without it?
> 2) I am on the lookout for a mike, cables, and
> control head for this thing now.  Are they all the
> same for the different Mastr II's like the VHF, UHF,
> low band or am I going to have to find one
> specifically for 50 MHz?
> 3) Where can I find more info about this whole ICOM
> thing?  I understand that they are housings for
> crystals, but can I just order the right crystals
> and replace them in these housings?  This whole 2C
> 5C EC thing is confusing.  Maybe this will all make
> sense when I eventually get my hands on the radio.
> 
>
Instead of a control head you may want to just add a
few parts.  A volume/squelch control board that fits
inside the unit can be bought here. 
http://www.nhrc.net/nhrc-vsq/

Then you hook up a speaker  and the 12 volt power.





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Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[Ralph Mowery]

> - repeaters are expensive. Expect at the very least
> to spend  $4-5k 
> for a very simple building top site, more if you
> need to climb 
> towers, etc. Actually, most of my money for a
> repeater goes into the 
> controller, duplexer, feedline and antenna. The
> actual radio portion 
> is only 15-20% of my cost.
> 
> - consider the Motorola Mitrek series transceiver.
> Smaller, more 
> sensitive rx, and you can get them at give away
> prices.
> 
> - if you want to get serious abt building repeaters,
> you will need a 
> good service monitor (a few more thousand dollars)
> 
> - consider 440 band as your first one, everything is
> smaller and a 
> bit less $$ (ant, duplexer) and with the 5Mhz
> splits, a bit easier to 
> set up. Yes, you don't get the same range, do get a
> bit better 
> building penetration in urban areas.
> 
> - repeaters are fun, repeaters are tempermental,
> repeaters are 
> expensive, repeaters are very frustrating at times.
> 
> good luck John/N4SJW
> 
I agree with the cost part.  A good antenna will be
around $ 500, about that for feedline and connectors,
same for the controller.  The 2 meter duplexers are
hard to find used.  Not sure of the new price
now,maybe $ 1000 to $ 1500.  The 440 duplexers are
about a tenth of that.  
The radios can be had for $ 50 to $ 100 and about half
thatn much more for the crystals or recrystling an
ICOM .  In other words, the radios are almost free, it
is the other options that cost.  Sort of like computer
printers, they almost give them away but eat you up
with the xost of the ink.  I recieved a photo printer
for Christmas,  prints on it cost me about $ .80 each.
 Wall-Mart will do them for about$ .25 each and I
don't need that special photo printer.  




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[Repeater-Builder] Re: Starting out with a Mastr II

[edctexas]

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "kg4wmp" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
>  I could find nothing 
> specific on why a radio whould need 4 (or more) 5C's and 1 EC.  Do 
> they take an average over several crystals or something or was this 
> a function of multiple channels?


Normally a mobile set only needs one 5C or 2C ICOM.  The EC units are 
slaved to the correction that the 5C creates for itself. The radio 
could have the buss cut and use separate Master and slaves for TX and 
RX.  It is not normally recommended to use multiple 5C units.  This 
will cause the units to fight each other.  Theeir temp. comp. will 
not be correct.  But on low band and for ham use, put in what you got 
and use it.  Some of the MII repeaters in this area don't bother with 
any temp. comp. at all.  

The master ICOM has a selected thermistor and resistor combination 
which produces a correction voltage to a tuning diode (varicap).  If 
I remember right the 2C units have to have the parts selected, but 
the 5C units don't.  The EC units have the tuning diode and get the 
correction voltage from the master. If two masters are tied together 
the voltages fight.

Some guys use EC ICOMs and modulate the varicap.  Its good FM but 
generally low deviation.  Most repeaters source their +10V from a 
separate source for TX and RX.  This separation prevents any RX side 
noise from adding spurious to the TX. Simplex transmitters don't have 
the problem as the RX is off during TX.  Repeaters do have the 
problem without this extra separation.

More GE trivia! WE can take this off line if you'd like more poop. R-
B website that Kevin has is a great source book.  Once you get a 
manual your off.  Many mobile use the same key.  I'm not sure if the 
station key or the mobile key is stamped BF-10 anymore.  Nearly any 
2way shop has a ley to unlock it.  I'd just use the master key 
(electirc drill).  Then vaccuum the mess out of the radio.

73 Ed K3SWJ








 
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