Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor (mobile) spur
At 12:07 PM 6/30/05, you wrote: Aarggh! I've pulled out most of my hair on this one! To revisit something I asked about several months ago... I'm still having a problem with my UHF Micor mobile converted to repeater. It is a T34RTA3000AA with power set at 20 watts. It is on 444.000 (T), 449.000 (R) and is producing a spur at 444.910. The spur is clean, stable, and has good modulation, sounds identical to the main carrier. I have retuned the exciter filter per the book several times. No change. One trick that I have used... the far end of the preselector tune broader than the near end. I've found that I get better performance if I do the tuning then turn it around and tune it again. This lets the old far end adjustments become the near end for the second pass through the procedure. I swapped the KXN1024A channel element for one on a different frequency (443.750T/448.750R) and still had a spur 910 kHz above my carrier freq. Finally I tested both channel elements in a stock (unmodified) Micor and STILL have a spur 910 kHz above the carrier frequency! I lack equipment to accurately measure the spur power level, but this spur is some 80 or so dB below the carrier level, perhaps a bit more. The manual specifies spurious and harmonics below 85 dB so this MAY be within spec. but why would it always spur 910 kHz above carrier freq.? This is an unacceptable level as it can be heard up to 5 miles from the repeater on line of sight paths (and this is causing a problem for some people). What am I missing? Is this normal behavior for a UHF Micor? I have juggled some numbers around and can't see why this would always be 910 kHz above the carrier freq. Thought I had a bad Micor until I found identical results in the second one... Any ideas? Should I forget about asking why and just throw cavities on the thing until I knock the spur down enough? Put a test receiver on the spur frequency, and if the test receiver desenses due to the true frequency then add a cavity in line to knock down the true frequency. Then go poking around in the exciter and see if you can isolate it to one stage. I'll bet that you find a multiplier that a slight touch in the adjustment kills the spur. I had a Moto 63MHT Motrac that had an intermittent spur on 147.775 when the radio was on 146.220 ... I put it on an analyzer and found that rocking one of the multiplier slugs just a hair cleaned it right up. On the test set the clean spot was still inside the top part of the peak... i.e. you'd never see a difference between dirty and clean on the test set. Like WB6VYZ used to say a picture tube is worth 20db of clean any day. Only frequently it's more than 20db. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor (mobile) spur
See below ... Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: At 12:07 PM 6/30/05, you wrote: Aarggh! I've pulled out most of my hair on this one! To revisit something I asked about several months ago... I'm still having a problem with my UHF Micor mobile converted to repeater. It is a T34RTA3000AA with power set at 20 watts. It is on 444.000 (T), 449.000 (R) and is producing a spur at 444.910. The spur is clean, stable, and has good modulation, sounds identical to the main carrier. I have retuned the exciter filter per the book several times. No change. One trick that I have used... the far end of the preselector tune broader than the near end. I've found that I get better performance if I do the tuning then turn it around and tune it again. This lets the old far end adjustments become the near end for the second pass through the procedure. I swapped the KXN1024A channel element for one on a different frequency (443.750T/448.750R) and still had a spur 910 kHz above my carrier freq. Finally I tested both channel elements in a stock (unmodified) Micor and STILL have a spur 910 kHz above the carrier frequency! I lack equipment to accurately measure the spur power level, but this spur is some 80 or so dB below the carrier level, perhaps a bit more. The manual specifies spurious and harmonics below 85 dB so this MAY be within spec. but why would it always spur 910 kHz above carrier freq.? This is an unacceptable level as it can be heard up to 5 miles from the repeater on line of sight paths (and this is causing a problem for some people). What am I missing? Is this normal behavior for a UHF Micor? I have juggled some numbers around and can't see why this would always be 910 kHz above the carrier freq. Thought I had a bad Micor until I found identical results in the second one... Any ideas? Should I forget about asking why and just throw cavities on the thing until I knock the spur down enough? Put a test receiver on the spur frequency, and if the test receiver desenses due to the true frequency then add a cavity in line to knock down the true frequency. Then go poking around in the exciter and see if you can isolate it to one stage. I'll bet that you find a multiplier that a slight touch in the adjustment kills the spur. I had a Moto 63MHT Motrac that had an intermittent spur on 147.775 when the radio was on 146.220 ... I put it on an analyzer and found that rocking one of the multiplier slugs just a hair cleaned it right up. On the test set the clean spot was still inside the top part of the peak... i.e. you'd never see a difference between dirty and clean on the test set. Could be the transmitter is going into self oscillation when the adjustment is made. Another good reason to bring your transmitters (and receivers) into the frequency range you want to use them on. You have a Motorola T63MHT - factory in 150.8 - 162 MHz? You want to use it at 146.46 MHz? You really need to pad down the exciter board to get there. Ditto the Micor exciter board in the same frequency range. Neil - WA6KLA Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor (mobile) spur
On Friday 01 July 2005 04:56 am, Mike Morris WA6ILQ wrote: One trick that I have used... the far end of the preselector tune broader than the near end. I've found that I get better performance if I do the tuning then turn it around and tune it again. This lets the old far end adjustments become the near end for the second pass through the procedure. I have read that somewhere (or quite possibly I remember you having said it before!) I did try this a couple of times. Put a test receiver on the spur frequency, and if the test receiver desenses due to the true frequency then add a cavity in line to knock down the true frequency. Then go poking around in the exciter and see if you can isolate it to one stage. I'll bet that you find a multiplier that a slight touch in the adjustment kills the spur. I have done that. Unfortunately I can tune each stage as far as I want (up to the point - in either direction - that it kills the whole transmitter) and it makes no real change in the spur. Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor (mobile) spur (more test results)
I just spent another night poking around in this thing. Sniffing around the transmitter with a receiver and very small probe antenna I am reasonably certain the spur is present at Q305 (exciter mixer) and all subsequent stages. Using a general coverage receiver the fundamental output of the channel element (19.195833 MHz) seems free of spurs. I realize the third harmonic of the channel element is selected by the filter but I have no receiver covering that range. Similarly, the 16.7 MHz out of the offset oscillator seems OK. There are some very weak (more than -100 dB) spurs above 16.7 but it is absolutely quiet at 15.790 which is what would be required to cause my +910 kHz spur. So I suspect a problem in either the exciter mixer (Q305) or somewhere in the injection multipliers (Q101, 102, 103) on the receiver RF IF board). No amount of tuning or detuning these stages eliminates it. It still seems odd that I have two Micors with an identical spur problem. Any thoughts on what to try next? Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] SyntorX T73 Repeater ???
We are currently using a portable repeater made from 2 T73 SyntorX's wired into a ICS Linker IIa controller. The current to the PA for the TX is set down low to about 45W. It works really well, although we had to install a couple of 12V fans on the heat sinks to keep um cool. The question is: we have tried several times to connect a local mic at the repeater with no success. If we plug the batwing mic into the TX side at J1103 of the control head, it will key the radio but no audio. The controller audio-in is tapped into the mic-hi pin 11 of J1101 at the control head. If we disconnect the controller from pin 11, the batwing mic at J1103 works. We have tried installing a diode between the controller audio-in wire and pin 11, but then we get no audio into the TX from the controller, and yes the diode was facing the right way :-). Advice or suggestions??? 73, Rob N4RPD Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor (mobile) spur (more test results)
On Friday 01 July 2005 08:43 am, Dave VanHorn wrote: Any possibility that it's coming from the power supply, and not actually the amplifier at all? Do you get it when running from a battery? Good thought. I tried 3 different power supplies and finally a battery. There is definitely something funny going on in the Micors. Paul Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] UHF Micor (mobile) spur (more test results)
At 08:03 AM 7/1/2005, Paul Kelley wrote: On Friday 01 July 2005 08:43 am, Dave VanHorn wrote: Any possibility that it's coming from the power supply, and not actually the amplifier at all? Do you get it when running from a battery? Good thought. I tried 3 different power supplies and finally a battery. There is definitely something funny going on in the Micors. Ok, glad to rule that out. . I've seen badly designed or broken switchers with significant HF noise on the output, and even linear supplies can do this. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
Just curious if anyone had experience with this. Steve, KE4MOB Hi Steve. I have found some rather high property ( 1000 ft HAAT) which I purchased myself. I have elected to avoid all the hastles of leasing and just built a weekend cabin up there and it houses an amateur repeater which I moved from a high tower previously at my house. Yes, it does make a GOOD field day site, especially for the VUF/UHF operations. I have just a 17 ft. pole now for an antenna mount but am going to install around 60-80 ft Rohn 25G when I get to it. I had to get a road dozed, gravel hauled, building, timber cleared, etc. 4 years later, it has made a good work project and the family is happy with the recreation aspects because we like the high country and bordering National Forrest. My advice is to own your own place and do with it as you please and build it up over time assuming there aren't neighbors with bad blood. It sounds like a good investment and likely is a chance of a lifetime. Another repeater that I helped a friend with for 13 years had to move 3 times because of small site changes that occurred. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
Just curious if anyone had experience with this. Steve, KE4MOB Hi Steve. I have found some rather high property ( 1000 ft HAAT) which I purchased myself. I have elected to avoid all the hastles of leasing and just built a weekend cabin up there and it houses an amateur repeater which I moved from a high tower previously at my house. Yes, it does make a GOOD field day site, especially for the VUF/UHF operations. I have just a 17 ft. pole now for an antenna mount but am going to install around 60-80 ft Rohn 25G when I get to it. I had to get a road dozed, gravel hauled, building, timber cleared, etc. 4 years later, it has made a good work project and the family is happy with the recreation aspects because we like the high country and bordering National Forrest. My advice is to own your own place and do with it as you please and build it up over time assuming there aren't neighbors with bad blood. It sounds like a good investment and likely is a chance of a lifetime. Another repeater that I helped a friend with for 13 years had to move 3 times because of small site changes that occurred. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] SyntorX T73 Repeater ???
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, n4rpd wrote: We are currently using a portable repeater made from 2 T73 SyntorX's wired into a ICS Linker IIa controller. The current to the PA for the TX is set down low to about 45W. It works really well, although we had to install a couple of 12V fans on the heat sinks to keep um cool. Advice or suggestions??? Turn the transmitter power up to 55W; those PAs are only spec'd to operate at 55W - 100W. Don't really know about the audio problem. I haven't worked too much with X's in repeater setups. -- Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] DB4060 duplxer
can anyone help me find the tuning information for a DB4060 duplexer, i can't see, to find them anywhere on the net.. anyone got any ideas? --- This message has passed an anti-virus scan using the avast! anti-virus system, database: 0526-4, 07/01/2005 Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB4060 duplxer
On Friday 01 July 2005 03:22 pm, Glen Briggs Aka KBØRPJ wrote: can anyone help me find the tuning information for a DB4060 duplexer, i can't see, to find them anywhere on the net.. anyone got any ideas? I think all that stuff disappeared from the web site when Andrew acquired Decibel Products. I have a 2-page PDF file of the field tuning instructions for the DB4060 and 4062 which I can email to you direct. Let me see what folder I stuck that in. Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
Listed where? Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) the road to the site was listed as a township road Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
Hi, The road was shown as a township road on the county highway map. The county assessor identifed the road to us as a "public road"..The road was shown on Mapquest. It had a street sign on it that matched the name of the road on the county map and Mapquest. The road ran straight up to the tower site. ATT had built the road in 1954 when they originally built the site. The original site plan we received showed the access road. ATT used it for 50 years and paid for maintenance and gave free long-distance service to the land owner. They must have used the road for 50 years on nothing but a handshake agreement. We could not claim "adverse possession" as the chain of "adverse use" had been broken (for2 years)when American Tower purchased the site and did not stake an immediate claim on use of the road. The road owner had blocked access to the road (with large concrete blocks). Paul Emeott K0LAV -- Original message -- Listed where? Joe M. [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2) the road to the site was listed as a township roadYahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "Repeater-Builder" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
Hmmm... the road was built on private property (hence a private road), yet was listed on the map as a county road. Interesting dilemma. No, you can't prove reverse posession, but it sounds like you should be able to prove if it's a township road if there is a number assigned to it on the county map. Ask the township road foreman or supervisors. Did the TWP ever maintain the road? (plow in winter - put gravel down - etc). If so, it is either a township road OR theft of property/services by the land owner. Maybe you can 'return the favor' for the hastle he caused you. All in all, it sounds like they mistakenly put a towmship road number on a private road. In my area, they won't even put a street sign on a private road for identification for emergency services. Joe M. Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, mch wrote: All in all, it sounds like they mistakenly put a towmship road number on a private road. In my area, they won't even put a street sign on a private road for identification for emergency services. There's a pretty good chance that if you push it, you'll win. In TX you most definately will. -- Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
I'm thinking so too. Ask your attorney. If local government recognizes it as a road -- it's a road. A private property owner can't close it off. Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, July 01, 2005 7:18 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)??? On Fri, 1 Jul 2005, mch wrote: All in all, it sounds like they mistakenly put a towmship road number on a private road. In my area, they won't even put a street sign on a private road for identification for emergency services. There's a pretty good chance that if you push it, you'll win. In TX you most definately will. -- Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] BIG BROTHER IS WATCHING YOU! This message brought to you by the US Department of Homeland Security Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] DB4060 Duplexer Tuning
Glen, Contact Andrew Customer Service at 800-255-1479 and ask for the tuning instructions for a DB4060 Duplexer. Have a FAX number ready, because most of the legacy tech data is not in PDF that can be emailed. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY Glen Briggs Aka KBØRPJ wrote: Can anyone help me find the tuning information for a DB4060 duplexer?... Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Antenex CWB440SC UHF antenna
I recently purchased a Antenex broadband UHF antenna to use with 110w mobile Spectra. I mounted the antenna in the center of my Jeep Cherokee roof and fed the shielded NMO mount with RG-400. I get about 20 watts reflected pwr and 80 fwd, not so good. I talked with Antenex and was told no cutting is required. Well I guess it is broadband and the swr is bad all across the band. Anyone have any experience with this type of antenna? Mark KB1IOZ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Chance of a Lifetime (kinda OT)???
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Neil McKie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: and three phase power. (A former FM Broadcast site.) I now have a respectable repeater site. Works for me, Neil - WA6KLA Neil, you feedin' some of that three phase power to the final of your repeater?? !! Laryn K8TVZ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Antenex CWB440SC UHF antenna
Mark, If your Jeep has a fiberglass or plastic roof, you are missing a ground plane for that antenna. Adhesive copper or aluminum sheeting is available from several suppliers for creating a ground plane. If the roof is metal, the rust-inhibiting coating on the underside may be preventing a good electrical contact between the mount and the sheet metal. Check to make certain that the contact spring in the center of the NMO fitting on the antenna is making good contact with the button on the mount. Finally, try a different NMO mount and feedline. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY mdnosliw wrote: I recently purchased a Antenex broadband UHF antenna to use with 110W mobile Spectra. I mounted the antenna in the center of my Jeep Cherokee roof and fed the shielded NMO mount with RG-400. I get about 20 watts reflected pwr and 80 fwd, not so good. I talked with Antenex and was told no cutting is required. Well I guess it is broadband and the swr is bad all across the band. Anyone have any experience with this type of antenna? Mark KB1IOZ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
