[Repeater-Builder] Re: A true Dual Squelch Circuit ?

[skipp025]

Keeping in mind the normal Micor Squelch is a dual speed squelch 
circuit for the audio and a second squelch (on the Squelch Gate 
Module) circuit for the repeater cor/cos/tx function. 

If you remove the "chip" from the original circuit and use only 
it for cos/cor you no longer have the dual squelch circuit. You 
have single circuit dual-speed squelch operation. 

cheers, 
s. 

> At 4/18/2007 11:16, you wrote:
> > > The Micor Chip squelch is a well known circuit with action/operation
> > > probably based on voice band energy/information and its detection
> > > against other information (or lack there off) and/or noise.
> >
> >The M6709 is basicly 2 op-amps, AC to DC rectifier, a window
> >comparator and a audio switch. R/C filters external to the chip work
> 
> Somehow, I feel there's a bit more to it than just the above, for it 
> performs so well.
> 
> >with the op-amps to create band pass filtering that passes high
> >frequency noise which is then rectified and compared to set levels at
> >which point it is deterimned whether there should be a fast squelch
> >closure (5 to 15mS) or a slow (about 150mS) one.
> 
> Actually, if implemented & installed properly the fast squelch is
faster 
> (2-3 ms), resulting in virtually complete squelch tail elimination.
 I find 
> the slow squelch to be around 300-400 ms.
> 
> Bob NO6B
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: GE MVS VHF Repeater?

[Merritt]

john, he said MVS, not Custom MVP!

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, John <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> They make great repeaters that are nice and compact.
> I have one at 1600' in So. Fla with a simple controller and it works
great.
> 
> John, K4AG
> 
> Coordinator for Amateur Radio  
> National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC
> Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org
> 
> 
> 
> dakaratcaptivereefing wrote:
> 
> >>Okay so I'm sitting on a pair of 40w GE MVS radios, currently in
> >>service as Packet & APRS digi's on 2m, but going to replace them with
> >>other radios here shortly...  Rumor has it they are more than capable
> >>of being converted into making a pretty decent repeater. I have access
> >>to a couple more of these rigs if I want/need them as well.
> >>
> >>Guess what I'm looking for is this possible? Good/bad idea? If so
> >>where's a good place to start?
> >>
> >>This would be my first real repeater, so any and all input would be
> >>greatly appreciated.
> >>
>

[Repeater-Builder] Jerrold Commander IV Modulator for ATV

[Wallace Steinbrecher]

Gentlemen,

I have come into possession of a Jerrold Commander IV video modulator 
currently configured for UHF channel 27.  I want to modify this 
modulator for ATV use at 439.25 Mhz (cable channel 60) as the TX side 
of an in-band repeater.

The modulator module is model CVMS.  The audio module is model CAM and 
the IF/Channel Converter module is model ICC-26I.

Does any member of the group have experience modding these modulators 
for use on ATV?  I have posted this question on some of the ATV boards 
but have not received a response.  Any help would be appreciated.

Wallace, KI4DVV

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Help me in selecting a GMRS repeater antenna

[Preston Moore]

I know there is a harness available to allow two
seperate antennas out of one DB-420.  I am wondering
why the SWR will be out of whack if I just use the top
section.  Is the harness the problem?  

Also, wrestling a 20-foot DB antenna on a peaked roof
is very interesting.  Taking one down is even more
interesting.  

Later 
Preston 



One CAN make two DB-408's out of one DB-420.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Shinn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Help me in selecting a
GMRS repeater antenna


[Hide Quoted Text]
If you just use the top section of the 420, the SWR
will be lousy.

Use a DB 408.  It is half the size of the 420 and a
real strong
performer.

More info can be found here- http://www.gmrsweb.com/


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Preston Moore
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

Anyone have any suggestions on an antenna for GMRS
repeater use.  This repeater will be at my residence
and the antenna will be mounted on a 5-foot tripod on
the roof.  I have a DB-420 and was successful in
getting it mounted, but I felt it was just slightly
too heavy.  I was afraid it would come down in a
strong wind.

Can I use just the top section of the DB-420 without
changing the phasing harness?  If not, can someone
please suggest a decent antenna?

Antenna tripod mount is at about the 40-foot level and
height really does not matter.  I have a $500 antenna
budget.

Thanks
Preston Moore

__
Do You Yahoo!?
Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
http://mail.yahoo.com 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Stationmaster Disassembly

[Jim Cicirello]

Hi Paul,

I have been following this post as I have a stationmaster to disassemble.
Did you take a large torch to the top metal point while the guts were pulled
away from the tip? When you go to reassemble, is there anything that needs
to be heated again on the top?

 

Thanks Jim

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Paul Metzger
Sent: Friday, April 27, 2007 9:59 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Stationmaster Disassembly

 

I had to take a large propane torch to the the of mine just last week in
order to get it apart.

 

Paul Metzger

K6EH

 

---

 

 

 

On Apr 27, 2007, at 12:54, Steve Hutzley wrote:






Folks,

We took down the 220 MHz "Phelps Dodge Model 200" Stationmaster off our
tower to see if it can be rescued. There is no gel-coat left on it at all.

I got the three screws around the perimiter of the mounting tube (aluminum)
out, I found a stainless set screw in the copper tip. I also found three
7/16" hex head bolts around the perimiter of the RF connector. It appears
that there is some sort of rubber bladder inside the mounting tube as well. 

Any clues, tips, ideas or suggestions so we can see what the internals look
like before we go to the trouble of re-gelling it?

Thanks
Steve



 

  _  

Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
Check out new
  cars
at Yahoo! Autos. 

 

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] A true Dual Squelch Circuit ?

[no6b]

At 4/18/2007 11:16, you wrote:
> > The Micor Chip squelch is a well known circuit with action/operation
> > probably based on voice band energy/information and its detection
> > against other information (or lack there off) and/or noise.
>
>The M6709 is basicly 2 op-amps, AC to DC rectifier, a window
>comparator and a audio switch. R/C filters external to the chip work

Somehow, I feel there's a bit more to it than just the above, for it 
performs so well.

>with the op-amps to create band pass filtering that passes high
>frequency noise which is then rectified and compared to set levels at
>which point it is deterimned whether there should be a fast squelch
>closure (5 to 15mS) or a slow (about 150mS) one.

Actually, if implemented & installed properly the fast squelch is faster 
(2-3 ms), resulting in virtually complete squelch tail elimination.  I find 
the slow squelch to be around 300-400 ms.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Help me in selecting a GMRS repeater antenna

[Chuck Kelsey]

One CAN make two DB-408's out of one DB-420.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Paul Shinn" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: 
Sent: Saturday, April 28, 2007 10:51 AM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Help me in selecting a GMRS repeater antenna


> If you just use the top section of the 420, the SWR will be lousy.
>
> Use a DB 408.  It is half the size of the 420 and a real strong
> performer.
>
> More info can be found here- http://www.gmrsweb.com/
>
>
> --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Preston Moore
> <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>>
>> Anyone have any suggestions on an antenna for GMRS
>> repeater use.  This repeater will be at my residence
>> and the antenna will be mounted on a 5-foot tripod on
>> the roof.  I have a DB-420 and was successful in
>> getting it mounted, but I felt it was just slightly
>> too heavy.  I was afraid it would come down in a
>> strong wind.
>>
>> Can I use just the top section of the DB-420 without
>> changing the phasing harness?  If not, can someone
>> please suggest a decent antenna?
>>
>> Antenna tripod mount is at about the 40-foot level and
>> height really does not matter.  I have a $500 antenna
>> budget.
>>
>> Thanks
>> Preston Moore
>>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tone remote setting question

[skipp025]

The answer has multiple paths. 

First... the mfgrs specified tone levels, which are obviously 
different from high, low level (guard tone) and you should also
consider the/and & all command/function tones. 

Second... what values you at the receive end need to make things 
work.  What actually works in the decoder and its dynamic range. 
See my previous post about the original silver-box Motorola Decoder 
being a much better animal vs the Vega Solid state decoder. 

Third... the path/line loss & EQ loss.  Have you swept the path/line 
before you set your levels? 

Fourth...  the control source levels and their respective adjustments. 

It's what you use the "tims" test set for... to sweep the line/pair
and check the loss. In really bad locations I know of more than one 
"event" where the inbound source is blown out higher than zero dB 
in...  :-)   Sometimes it's just the way things happen. 

The Motorola T-1502 series tone remote manual has a pretty good 
description of how tone signaling works. After enough tone remote war 
stories the ("enough") level is what actually works and performs 
well while trying to "stay legal" or at least at some value where 
the the evil eye of Sauron (the line provider) doesn't turn on you 
that you burst into flames. 

Microwave tone path levels are another story... and of course all 
bets are off on older analog State Government Microwave paths. :-) 

cheers, 
s.

> "Tim S" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Anyone know the answer to the original question.
> How do you make sure you have enough high level, function, 
> and low level guard tones at the repeater input?
> 
> The way I see it you have the keyer output into the phone 
> line to make your initial adjustment.  Then the repeater 
> has a line input as well.
> 
> Keyer Odbm -> telco loss -16db -> repeater in -16db ->
> 
> -Tim
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tone remote setting question (Halcyon & Helper ... war stories)

[skipp025]

Other than the HP I just mentioned in my last post... I 
cut my teeth on the Halcyon... and it was actually a very 
easy/nice unit to use. Not to mention it is/was very well 
made. We beat the snot out of ours and it never died. 

Helper Instruments never made a bad box that I ever saw. I 
have a number of their boxes...  I'll even get around to 
scanning the rare/elusive Helper Catalog with Company History 
if anyone is interested.  And I know a small bit about the 
Zetron part of Helper Instruments. 

Vega even made a tone/line test box... 

Since people often don't know what these boxes are used for... 
they go pretty darn cheap on ebay. 

cheers, 
skipp 

> "Steve Bosshard (NU5D)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> I use a TIMS Meter - transmission impairment measuring 
> system - Halcyon, Convex, NT, even Helper Instruments 
> made a nice $300 box for basic testing.
> Steve NU5D
> 

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Tone remote setting question (hp-4935a)

[skipp025]

I've seen HP 4935a "tims" units for almost nothing at the flea 
markets and ebay. Not many people are using them anymore. Check out 
Ebay Auction Item number: 220105642996 for one and do a search for 
the other one or two I see on there now. 

These units are killer for telco/wire line level send/receive & duplex 
path service.  And you can find the matching digital cover test set
unit cheap. 

cheers, 
skipp 

> "N9WYS" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> My "helper" told me that I need to start looking for test equipment
- he's
> taking a different job and won't have access to the equipment he
does now.
> 
> Inasmuch, what is the test meter called that you use to measure the
signal
> level across/on phone lines?  I'm told that I need one that measures
in dB,
> I believe.
> 
> Thanks!
> Mark - N9WYS
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Dan Blasberg
> 
> Most of the radio circuits that i remotely test and we (Verizon) 
> engineer are 0, -16 circuits, meaning that the from the telecom 
> interface we are looking for a 0db signal on the transmit side, and 
> when it gets to the other end at the interface card at the station the 
> signal will be -16 db.
> 
> Dan
> 
> KA8YPY
> 
> On Apr 26, 2007, at 10:40 PM, allan crites wrote:
> 
> > Tim,
> > The AT&T spec for line loss from the sending end to the central
office 
> > is 9 +- 1 dB and from the central office to the receiving end is 9 +- 
> > 1 dB. So your total loss will be 18 +- 2 dB.
> > I need to find my tone remote manual to get the answers to your other 
> > questions.
> > WA9ZZU
> >
> > "Steve Bosshard (NU5D)" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> >> I believe 16 db would be terribly excessive loss for a line -
maybe 6 
> >> db tops.  I usually set -10 dbm @ 1000 hz for +/- 3 khz deviation. 
> >> ).  0 dBm for max deviation. and let the tone levels fall into place 
> >> as you have indicated.  If the line measures 6 db of loss @ 1000 hz, 
> >> you may want to move the hold tone from -20 dBm to -17 or -14 dBm
and 
> >> the remainder accordingly.  Also loss may vary with tone frequency, 
> >> so loss at 1000 hz may be far different from loss at 2175 hz.  Best 
> >> luck,  Steve NU5D
> >>
> >> On 4/26/07, tim_shephard <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: I'm working 
> >> with a GE repeater, Master II.  Its tone remoted.  It is
> >>> setup and working, but I'd like to know how to set the tone remote
> >>
> >>
> >> -- 
> >> Ham Radio Spoken Here.NU5D
> >> Nickel Under Five Dollars
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE MVS VHF Repeater?

[John]

They make great repeaters that are nice and compact.
I have one at 1600' in So. Fla with a simple controller and it works great.

John, K4AG

Coordinator for Amateur Radio  
National Hurricane Center, WX4NHC
Home page:- http://www.wx4nhc.org



dakaratcaptivereefing wrote:

>>Okay so I'm sitting on a pair of 40w GE MVS radios, currently in
>>service as Packet & APRS digi's on 2m, but going to replace them with
>>other radios here shortly...  Rumor has it they are more than capable
>>of being converted into making a pretty decent repeater. I have access
>>to a couple more of these rigs if I want/need them as well.
>>
>>Guess what I'm looking for is this possible? Good/bad idea? If so
>>where's a good place to start?
>>
>>This would be my first real repeater, so any and all input would be
>>greatly appreciated.
>>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] A true Dual Squelch Circuit ?

[DCFluX]

> The Micor Chip squelch is a well known circuit with action/operation
> probably based on voice band energy/information and its detection
> against other information (or lack there off) and/or noise.

The M6709 is basicly 2 op-amps, AC to DC rectifier, a window
comparator and a audio switch. R/C filters external to the chip work
with the op-amps to create band pass filtering that passes high
frequency noise which is then rectified and compared to set levels at
which point it is deterimned whether there should be a fast squelch
closure (5 to 15mS) or a slow (about 150mS) one.

hmm, Repeater-builder is down at the moment, but I suggest reading:

http://72.14.253.104/search?q=cache:XBKnL-j-32wJ:www.repeater-builder.com/rbtip/micorsquelch.html+motorola+m6709&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1&gl=us


> So the better beast would be to use a dual circuit like the Motorhead
> Noise Integrator for your COS/COR logic and the voice band and/or
> second squelch circuit for the voice audio gate.  Hey that's what
> Motorola does/did in the Micor and the MSR-2000.
>
> Don't be confused by a dual fast/slow squelch circuit operation
> being the same as the integrator.

I am sorry, but I am confused. What you are discribing sounds more
like 'AND' squelch only instead of a PL deck it uses a VOX circuit in
concert with a tradidional squelch board. Micors didn't do that, I
have no experience with the MSR-2000 though.

> Sometimes it's all a mute point if you "hide" or gate your repeater
> controller receive audio behind an audio delay module.

Like PL decks, audio delay lines just hide problems until someone goes
to use the repeater. In some controllers having a delay board is more
trouble than it is worth. Some only use it to eliminate DTMF tones,
some have no provisions to mute audio into the board so feeding the
controller with raw discriminator audio results in a 'front porch'
squelch tail.  Unless programed to what the delay of the line is most
all will have a 'back porch'. And 75mS of delay does nothing to hide a
600mS squelch tail.

Having a variable length squelch tail is also a dandy audible S-meter.

> So What's in your wallet?

At the moment I am running a GE MASTR-II base coverted to full duplex
with the capacitor 'bi-level' mod. It is no replacement for the Micor
squelch chip though.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] OT: Cell Phone Yagi

[John Gleichweit]

On Fri, 20 Apr 2007 12:14:09 EDT, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

> 
>In a message dated 4/20/2007 6:17:20 A.M. Pacific Daylight Time,  [EMAIL 
>PROTECTED] 
>writes:
>
>Beware!!! It is a violation of FCC rules to install and operate a BDA  
>without the permission of the licensee, and this includes  cellular!
>Many illegally and improperly installed BDA's have been shut down  by the 
>FCC and authorities in the last few years, primarily due to  interference 
>they were creating.
>Go to: http://www.rfsolutions.com/ for  
>information.
>
>
>
>
>
>Rubbish.

Sorry, it's not rubbish. Jim's on a couple of other lists with me
dealing with the professional side of radio, and the BDA situation is
discussed about once every couple of months, mainly with in-building
systems and Nextel. I'm sure that Jim can come up with the exact
section that prohibits unapproved BDAs.
-- 
John "Smokey Behr" Gleichweit FF1/EMT, CCNA, MCSE
IPN-CAL023 N6FOG UP Fresno Sub MP183.5 ECV1852
List Owner x6, Moderator x4 CA-OES 51-507
http://smokeybehr.blogspot.com
http://www.myspace.com/smokeybehr

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Repeater Antenna Question

[Steve Allred]

The Telewave unit is a tuned circut type too (low pass VHF / high pass UHF), 
just much more robust. They are capable of running at a much higher power level 
than the Amateur type. They are also weather proof (with proper connector 
sealing) if you want to "break out" your feedline at the top of the tower into 
a seperate VHF/UHF antennas. 
I  have an application where a long run of 1 1/4" LDF was more cost and DB 
effective than two (2) runs of smaller cable by using a "cross band coupler" 
both top and bottom. Now i have lower loss, one less run of feedline on the 
tower and mono band perfromance with dedicated antennas on 2 meters and 440.

crackedofn0de <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:  --- 
In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 >  
 > In a message dated 4/26/2007 4:39:57 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time,  
 > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 > 
 > cross  band coupler
 > 
 > 
 > Thanks   that sounds like the ticket.  Seems like the  way to go 
 >  
 >  
 > JA
 
 How about a diplexer from Comet or Diamond?  I looked into this
 recently for a similar application and couldn't tell the difference
 between the expensive Telewave crossband couplers and the dime-a-dozen
 amateur diplexers.  The specs given for the diplexers even indicate
 about twice the isolation compared to the crossband couplers.  While
 the designs appear to be different (tuned "cavity" vs. tuned circuit),
 I can't find any information that would indicate any pros or cons
 between the two in practice.  Anybody?
 
 Both Comet and Diamond call their diplexers duplexers.  I have no idea
 why.  They get it right when they call their triplexers triplexers.
 
 I was thinking about going with a Diamond product (they at least have
 a metal housing) and swapping out any UHF connectors for N types.
 
 http://www.rfparts.com/diamond/Product_Catalog/plexers.html
 
 http://www.cometantenna.com/products.php?CatID=1&famID=6&childID=0
 
 
 
   



   
-
Ahhh...imagining that irresistible "new car" smell?
 Check outnew cars at Yahoo! Autos.

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Help me in selecting a GMRS repeater antenna

[Paul Shinn]

If you just use the top section of the 420, the SWR will be lousy.

Use a DB 408.  It is half the size of the 420 and a real strong 
performer.

More info can be found here- http://www.gmrsweb.com/


--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Preston Moore 
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> Anyone have any suggestions on an antenna for GMRS
> repeater use.  This repeater will be at my residence
> and the antenna will be mounted on a 5-foot tripod on
> the roof.  I have a DB-420 and was successful in
> getting it mounted, but I felt it was just slightly
> too heavy.  I was afraid it would come down in a
> strong wind.  
> 
> Can I use just the top section of the DB-420 without
> changing the phasing harness?  If not, can someone
> please suggest a decent antenna?  
> 
> Antenna tripod mount is at about the 40-foot level and
> height really does not matter.  I have a $500 antenna
> budget.  
> 
> Thanks 
> Preston Moore
> 
> __
> Do You Yahoo!?
> Tired of spam?  Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around 
> http://mail.yahoo.com
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 800 Mhz Duplexer

[N9LLO]

 
In a message dated 4/28/2007 8:28:11 AM Central Daylight Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 
have a Decibel Products 800 Mhz duplexer. Motorola number TDN6917-A, 
two can unit. Is this item worth anything, our useful in the Ham Band?
Written freqs. 855.8375/810.Written f

Jim, K8COP


 

Yes but you will have to modify the low pass loop to get the notch to tune a 
25 mhz split. The high pass seems to tune OK. The loop needs to be longer. I 
used #14 wire. Go from the connector almost to the side of the can, bend and 
run parallel to the can, bend and run it to the cap. repeat for the other 
connector to the cap the same way. You should then be able to tune the low pass 
side 
notch up 25 mhz.
 
Chris
N9LLO



** See what's free at http://www.aol.com.

[Repeater-Builder] 800 Mhz Duplexer

[Jim, K8COP]

I have a Decibel Products 800 Mhz duplexer.  Motorola number TDN6917-A, 
two can unit.  Is this item worth anything, our useful in the Ham Band?
Written freqs. 855.8375/810.8375 Mhz.

Jim, K8COP

[Repeater-Builder] Motorola VHF Micor Mobile Drawers

[Jim, K8COP]

I have ten of these units.  They are in the 155.000 Mhz area.  PL 
encode/decode with them.  $10.00 each. Pick up only in western michigan.

Jim, K8COP