Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2.4 Ghz wireless radio and 145.410 repeater
At 06:43 PM 11/21/2008, JOHN MACKEY wrote: Yes,,, but,,, RF (analog) guys tend to be quicker to understand networking (digital) issues and certainly take less for granted. ---I've always maintained that RF is as much as art form as it is science. You either have a feel for it or you don't. Ken -- President and CTO - Arcom Communications Makers of repeater controllers and accessories. http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/ Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and we offer complete repeater packages! AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000 http://www.irlp.net We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Perparation of new antenna
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Morris WA6ILQ [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 04:13 PM 11/21/08, you wrote: I know this subject has been kicked around in the past but I need a Thanks Mike. Am I correct in that you are describing the hardware at the connection of the coax harness to the antenna loops? refresher. We are about to install a brand new DB 420 at the top of our 220 foot county tower for our local 444.6 repeater. Other than checking all the hardware and tightening the connections what else needs to be done. Is Scotchkote a good thing? If so 3M usually has several types of all of their products. Which is best? Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Do a belt AND suspenders fix: use BOTH stainless steel lock washers (split, inside star, or outside star, your preference, but use one of those types) AND stainless steel Nylock nuts. You don't want bolts loosening and the antenna developing duplex cracklies, or worse, have the antenna shedding hardware after the first good wind (which would generate vibration). Mike
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
These are not 90 watts TX out. They top out at about 50 watts. You can run an out board amp, but that is not advised as it is another part to break and their reliability is sometimes suspect. If you are connecting a 3rd party controller like a Linkcom, Scom or such to it, there are sometimes issues. What kind of repeater do you have now? Maybe it just needs a face lift. If it is a GE MastrII (a real rack mounted repeater, not a converted mobile) I would not change it out, just RR it and keep going. If you have to get a new repeater, look at the Motorola MTR2000 or Quantar. These are 100-125 watt and are beginning to show up on the surplus market at good prices. The MaCom MastrIII is another choice, but not my preferred as they take 2-3 programs to program at times. Brands to stay away from Hamtronics Maggorie (sp) Anything that is not a commercial built, public safety, grade repeater is something to stay away from. There are lots of good used repeater showing up on the market as the public safety guys begin the final move to the narrowbanding of the public safety and commercial frequencies. How much money do you have to spend? That is going to dictate what you buy the most. Paul Gilbert, KE5ZW Austin, TX On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 9:19 AM, John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My ham radio club is ready to replace our 440 repeater. I have read the spec/data sheets on the Icom IC FR-4000 and the Kenwood TKR-850. Here are my questions: Are these among the best modern repeaters available? Is one or the other superior? Is there a different repeater you would prefer or recommend? What good/bad experience have you had with the Icom or Kenwood (or with related products)? Are there specific brands or models to avoid? Information that might be relevant: The repeater will be in a standard 19-inch rack mount cabinet. It will be inside, not exposed to the elements . It can be used with or without a power amplifier (5W in, 90W out). I would like the power out to be near the 90W. The frequency pair has 5MHz separation. TX is on 448.375MHz; RX on 443.375MHz. The duplexer is a Motorola T1504A I would appreciate the benefit of your experience. Thanks. John Transue, Trustee Vienna Wireless Society Vienna, VA
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
The Yaesu may have problem. It should be -119dbm or about .3 to .25 uv with a service monitor if tuned and working correctly. Those repeaters were never well known for good front ends. I would have your coax sweep with a Anritsu Site Master or some kind of coax testing device (not just a watt meter looking at SWR) and consider the conditon and age of your antenna. There are SO many factors that can effect how well the repeater works. Some inlude. Have new radios system moved into the site? Perhaps these have raised the noise floor and desensed the receiver. How old is the coax, antenna. What kind of antenna is it? Fiberglass stick? Folded dipole...ala...DB420? is there water in the stick or what shape is the harness of the dipole in? I bring this all up as I deal with these issues daily for a state agency in Texas with a radio system that is VERY old and we are trying to replace it. Just changing the repeater itself may not fix the problem. It is needs to be an overall evaluation of the problem and system for issues and solutions. Paul Gilbert, KE5ZW Austin, Texas On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:01 PM, John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Chuck, Our current repeater is a Yaesu Musen FTR-5410. It is now working pretty well after having the duplexer tuned, after changing the cables to RG-400, and after taking out of line a preamp. The repeater works better without the preamp than with it. On the bench the preamp provides +11 dB. When on the repeater it reduces sensitivity by about 2 dB. The club thinks a new repeater would perform better. I don't know whether it will or not. John -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Chuck Kelsey Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:27 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band Good Repeaters for UHF Ham BandJust curious... what do you have now and why are you replacing it? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: John Transue To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:19 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band My ham radio club is ready to replace our 440 repeater. Yahoo! Groups Links __ NOD32 3630 (20081121) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Perparation of new antenna
Seal the connector with a layer of the 3m rubber tape and then the 3m type 88 tape. Extend beyond the connectors about 2 inches and before you put the type 88 tape on use the warmth of your hands and pressure to mold the rubber tape down on the connectors and coax for a final seal. Scotchkote is good, but it does not last very long. It's use is a religious discussion. I use it as it does tend to melt the tape and seal it down. If the DB 420 is brand new...be sure and check all the nuts that connect the harness center conductor and shield onto the dipoles. I have seen those on new antennas only hand tight. Also, be usre to use a good Polyphaser lightening protector. Don't use one of the cheap-o types. Polyphaser or one similiar is best. Also, be sure it is grounded well. A last item that many forget is a coax grounding kit. They are cheap insurance against lightening. Get the grounding kit for your coax and install one at the top about a foot or two after the connector and ground to the tower. Then install one at the bottom as the coax comes off the tower and heads to the building.repeater. Ground it to the ground ring (if there is one) or tower bottom ground bar if there is one. If there is not a ground bar or ring, then at least drive in a ground rod and attach it. I have found an hours work on these details and the 20-100 bucks spent on grounding and protectors can save you thousands later. Paul Gilbert, KE5ZW Austin, Texas On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 6:13 PM, wa5luy [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I know this subject has been kicked around in the past but I need a refresher. We are about to install a brand new DB 420 at the top of our 220 foot county tower for our local 444.6 repeater. Other than checking all the hardware and tightening the connections what else needs to be done. Is Scotchkote a good thing? If so 3M usually has several types of all of their products. Which is best? Any other suggestions would be appreciated. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2.4 Ghz wireless radio and 145.410 repeater
On Sat, 22 Nov 2008, n9lv wrote: The tried at 110' was not enough signal, -80 dbm was best, at 120' we hit -72 dbm so that is where it had to go. What I am looking for is possibly a filter that will solve the problem and allow them both to survive on the same tower. We've had a number of ideas presented, and each one of the solutions have merit in one case or another. My personal preference would be to install the Part 15 Wireless equipment in a NEMA box, and use the NEMA box as a Faraday cage, with fiber optic cable connecting to the ground, and some form of power routed up the tower in a safe fashion. The power would need to be decoupled from the box, and again, preferably in a shielded cable. To eliminate power noise, I'd like to go with DC, but with I^2R losses being what they are, 48V power may not be acceptable, and 120VAC may also constitute an unnecessary hazard on the tower, unless it is a lit tower. At the very least, the above would rule out power noise as a source of interference. I did like one of the poster's suggestions to change the interface speed to 10Mbit/s instead of 100Mbit/s; that would also curtail emissions all over the place as a digital signal has so many harmonics. I hope this issue isn't RF-based. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Perparation of new antenna
When you check the terminal connections, be sure to back off the outer nut before verifying a good torque on the nut that tightens onto the aluminum element, then replace the outer nut and tighten it onto the terminal lug. A stainless steel toothed lockwasher should be under each nut. I recently received a brand-new DB408 antenna that had one nut completely missing, and the terminal lug was making contact only by side pressure from the coaxial cable! Curiously, the included response chart showed that the antenna was working properly. Go figure... Yes, Scotchkote Electrical Coating is definitely a good investment- even though a 15 ounce can costs about $30. I first suspend the antenna upside-down, and apply Scotchkote to every splice block and terminal that now faces upward. After allowing that application to dry for ten minutes or so, I turn the antenna around and do the remaining joints. I don't apply the sealant to the nuts and threads, just to any point where water might seep into the cable. I then repeat the above process, and apply a second coating to every joint. Finally, I apply a third coat to each cable joint when the antenna is upright. Yeah, this is a messy and time-consuming process, but I don't want to be back at the site in a couple of years to troubleshoot a water ingress problem. At the junction between the antenna harness and the feedline, I apply a small amount of silicone compound to the threads of the female N connector on the feedline before mating them. I never use a barrel connector here; the feedline always has a female connector at the top end. Scotch Linerless Splicing Tape is then applied over the splice, from bottom to top, overlapping 50% on each wrap. This tape is self-vulcanizing when stretched during the wrap, and it actually is made for high-voltage splicing work. This is then over-wrapped with Scotch 88 or similar tape, again from bottom to top, so that it sheds water. A dab of Scotchkote sealant over the tape ensures that it is water tight. As for other suggestions, here's mine: Use only stainless-steel or hot-dip galvanized hardware, similar to that used in power-line work. Use a zinc-based compound such as Penetrox, Adalox, Noalox, or similar product on all threads and on every aluminum antenna joint. This will not only improve electrical contact, but will also ensure that the hardware can be easily disassembled in the future. Finally, use a known-accurate DVM to measure the DC resistance of the antenna and feedline system, and post that value somewhere in the radio shack. The DB420 is a DC-grounded antenna, so the DC resistance seen at the duplexer should be close to zero ohms, being essentially the loop resistance of the feedline. If the antenna system ever fails, re-perform this measurement to quickly determine if there is an open. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of wa5luy Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 6:20 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Preparation of new antenna I know this subject has been kicked around in the past but I need a refresher. We are about to install a brand new DB 420 at the top of our 220 foot county tower for our local 444.6 repeater. Other than checking all the hardware and tightening the connections, what else needs to be done? Is Scotchkote a good thing? If so, 3M usually has several types of all of their products. Which is best? Any other suggestions would be appreciated.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2.4 Ghz wireless radio and 145.410 repeater
On Fri, 21 Nov 2008, kf0m wrote: I have a friend who had a similar problem trying to get enough signal from the main site to his house. The Internet company guy was ready to say it just couldn't be done for his location and distance. He asked the guy to come back the next day for one more try. In the mean time, he hauled an 8 ft satellite TV dish up the ham tower. pointed it in the right direction and then hung the internet link antenna at the feed point. I have two questions: What kind of tower did he have, and what was the windload like on that sucker? I cannot see Rohn 25 holding an eight-foot satellite dish in the air for very long without all of the parts succumbing to gravity. next day the internet tech took one look and said it will never work because you have the link antenna pointed the wrong way. My friend said humor me and give it a shot. Much to the techs amazement the signal was plenty strong and he was able to finish setting up the internet connection. A large number of techs in the Part 15 wireless sector came out of computing as a hobby, and don't have much of an education as far as RF goes. If you are lucky, you'll meet a few who know how to calculate Fresnel zones and path loss. Many have no concept of solutions outside of the hardware they may purchase, and furthermore to retain compliance with FCC Part 15, must source system components from a company that has tested them to complaince. So finally getting to the point, find a surplus satellite dish and maybe you can get enough signal at a lower height to get enough separation between the 2.4 GHz system and the repeater. The problem with using satellite dishes is that one must compute the gain, and accordingly lower the Part 15 device's transmitter power to remain in compliance with Part 15. The nice part about any parabolic dish is that regardless of the frequency, the feedpoint is in the same physical location on them. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
[Repeater-Builder] VoIP Phone Service
I am wanting to install a cheep, very cheep phone service VoIP at the repeater site using the second IP I have available to me. I would like to have a service that uses an ATA that can be configured to work with the service I end up going with. I have herd that the Magic Jack will not work since it times out after 24hrs of no use. Any Suggestions. Thanks, Mike K7PFJ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] VoIP Phone Service
Mike, I was doing some research for another project and came across this: http://www.asterisk.org It's a PBX style piece of software. You will need to do MUCH more research to figure it out. I ran across it while looking at software that runs on a Linksys Network Storage Link (slug). It's software hacks page can be found here: http://www.nslu2-linux.org/ The slug is a VERY neat box that will do LOTS of things. Seems VERY versatile. I was looking at it for a project for putting weather station info on-line without running a power-hogging PC 24-7. Here is a Skype Phone Adaptor that would make the transition from Telephone to USB: http://www.von-phone.com/usb_skype_phone_adapter.php In the diagram shown on that page, the slug would replace the PC running Skype Granted this is just a wild idea, but I think it should all work for you. Sorry I can't offer any hard step-by-step for you. Scott Scott Zimmerman Amateur Radio Call N3XCC 474 Barnett Rd Boswell, PA 15531 - Original Message - From: Mike Mullarkey To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:57 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VoIP Phone Service I am wanting to install a cheep, very cheep phone service VoIP at the repeater site using the second IP I have available to me. I would like to have a service that uses an ATA that can be configured to work with the service I end up going with. I have herd that the Magic Jack will not work since it times out after 24hrs of no use. Any Suggestions. Thanks, Mike K7PFJ -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com Version: 8.0.175 / Virus Database: 270.9.9/1805 - Release Date: 11/22/2008 10:34 AM
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000
John, I have a total of six MTR2000 repeaters in service, in both Amateur and commercial applications, with two more to be added in a few months. I have learned what options are necessary or desirable, and which can be deleted to save money. In order to provide you with a ballpark figure, and offer a shopping list, I need to know the following information: 1. What transmit frequency (within 1 MHz) will the repeater use? 2. Do you want a 40 watt or 100 watt transmitter? 3. Do you intend to add an external controller, or use the internal controller (Morse ID, but no courtesy beep)? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Transue Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:37 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000 To help me determine whether the Motorola MTR 2000 is out of my club's funding range, would someone tell me approximately what a ham radio club would have to pay for such a repeater? John
RE: [Repeater-Builder] VoIP Phone Service
I suggest a Linksys PAP2-NA (an unlocked ethernet-based ATA) I personally use vitelity.net for my business's voip service. I tested Teliax with good results also. If all you need is termination (outgoing calls) you're only billed per minute (and it's not like the average autopatch is THAT busy). For my business, we're almost all incoming so we order unlimited incoming DIDs and pay the 1.4c/minute or whatever for domestic outgoing. I can't suggest the PAP2 enough. It's a solid little unit with lots of adjustability. Don't try to save $5-10 by getting a 'lesser unit' - just not worth it. JS From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Mike Mullarkey Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:58 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] VoIP Phone Service I am wanting to install a cheep, very cheep phone service VoIP at the repeater site using the second IP I have available to me. I would like to have a service that uses an ATA that can be configured to work with the service I end up going with. I have herd that the Magic Jack will not work since it times out after 24hrs of no use. Any Suggestions. Thanks, Mike K7PFJ
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000
Eric, Your questions are answered below. 1. What transmit frequency (within 1 MHz) will the repeater use? Answer: The repeater TX frequency is 448.375 MHz. RX is down 5 MHz. 2. Do you want a 40 watt or 100 watt transmitter? Answer: I'd like to have 90 watts out but it doesn't have to come from the repeater. We are currently using a Mirage power amp that boosts our repeater power from 5 watts to 90 watts. 3. Do you intend to add an external controller, or use the internal controller (Morse ID, but no courtesy beep)? Answer: We are currently using a RC-96 by ACC. I'd like to continue using it, but this is not an absolute requirement. Several people on RB have indicated that the MTR 2000 is far more expensive than the Kenwood TKR-850. I would like a ball-park cost figure to see for myself about what the difference would be. Thanks for your interest and help. John Transue -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000 John, I have a total of six MTR2000 repeaters in service, in both Amateur and commercial applications, with two more to be added in a few months. I have learned what options are necessary or desirable, and which can be deleted to save money. In order to provide you with a ballpark figure, and offer a shopping list, I need to know the following information: 1. What transmit frequency (within 1 MHz) will the repeater use? 2. Do you want a 40 watt or 100 watt transmitter? 3. Do you intend to add an external controller, or use the internal controller (Morse ID, but no courtesy beep)? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Transue Sent: Friday, November 21, 2008 10:37 AM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000 To help me determine whether the Motorola MTR 2000 is out of my club's funding range, would someone tell me approximately what a ham radio club would have to pay for such a repeater? John Yahoo! Groups Links __ NOD32 3632 (20081121) Information __ This message was checked by NOD32 antivirus system. http://www.eset.com
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
At 11/22/2008 07:54, you wrote: Brands to stay away from Hamtronics Maggorie (sp) Spectrum. IMO the worst by far. Bob NO6B
RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000
John, I certainly can't dispute the fact that an MTR2000 repeater is far more expensive than a TKR-850 repeater, nor can I dispute the fact that a BMW is far more expensive than a Yugo. The MTR2000 is a high-tier, heavy-duty, very reliable unit that can operate continuously. The TKR-850 is a low-tier station that is equivalent to the Motorola RKR-1225, and similar offerings from Icom, Vertex, and Ritron. If you want quality and durability, buy a high-tier station. If you feel that your needs do not warrant such an expenditure, stick with the more economical units. If you want a high-tier Kenwood station, look at the TKR-840 rather than the TKR-850. The TKR-840 is intended to drive a separate power amplifier, since it puts out 1 to 5 watts. The local public-safety agencies use a TKR-840 with a 100 watt TPL amplifier running at 75 watts. That combination is in the $3,500 class. The TKR-840 is the BMW of the Kenwood LMR product line. The TKR-850 is, well, not a BMW. I chose the MTR2000 stations for my systems simply because I wanted basic communications that was absolutely reliable. All of them are bare-bones stations that use the internal controllers and have the integral power supply. One of my UHF MTR2000 stations is on 100% solar power, and in an unheated concrete shelter on a mountain ridge. Like the other and similar stations, it has performed flawlessly. The last 100 watt MTR2000 station I bought, more than a year ago, cost about $3,900 delivered to my door. That figure does not include the programming software, programming cable, speaker, microphone, or a service manual; those add another $500 or so. Be very careful about where you buy such a repeater, because some dealers look upon your purchase as a means to make a real killing- and you can pay many hundreds of dollars more than a fair price. As I noted in a short article a few years ago, I sent an RFQ (Request for Quote) for a MTR2000 station to more than a dozen Motorola dealers around the country as well as to two local radio shops. I included a list of options I wanted, with instructions to not vary from the list. What an eye-opener! There was more than $2,000 difference between the highest and lowest bids, and the highest came from one of the local radio shops. The owner of that shop had the gall to boast that he prided himself on being very competitive, and he was sure that he would get my business. No chance! I suggest that you evaluate the trade-off between a 40 watt MTR2000 and the 100 watt station. Not only is the 40 watt station about $600 cheaper, but you can also cut about $200 by ordering the DC-only version that will run on 14 VDC. The 100 watt DC-only station requires 28 VDC. Personally, I prefer to use an integral AC power supply for reliability. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of John Transue Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 2:48 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000 Eric, Your questions are answered below. 1. What transmit frequency (within 1 MHz) will the repeater use? Answer: The repeater TX frequency is 448.375 MHz. RX is down 5 MHz. 2. Do you want a 40 watt or 100 watt transmitter? Answer: I'd like to have 90 watts out but it doesn't have to come from the repeater. We are currently using a Mirage power amp that boosts our repeater power from 5 watts to 90 watts. 3. Do you intend to add an external controller, or use the internal controller (Morse ID, but no courtesy beep)? Answer: We are currently using a RC-96 by ACC. I'd like to continue using it, but this is not an absolute requirement. Several people on RB have indicated that the MTR 2000 is far more expensive than the Kenwood TKR-850. I would like a ball-park cost figure to see for myself about what the difference would be. Thanks for your interest and help. John Transue -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater- [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:Builder%40yahoogroups.com ] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 12:19 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000 John, I have a total of six MTR2000 repeaters in service, in both Amateur and commercial applications, with two more to be added in a few months. I have learned what options are necessary or desirable, and which can be deleted to save money. In order to provide you with a ballpark figure, and offer a shopping list, I need to know the following information: 1. What transmit frequency (within 1 MHz) will the repeater use? 2. Do you want a 40 watt or 100 watt transmitter? 3. Do you intend to add an external controller, or use the internal controller (Morse ID, but no courtesy beep)? 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From:
[Repeater-Builder] GR1225 UHF Repeater F/S
Motorola GR1225 Desktop UHF 444-475 40 watt repeater. Like brand new, extremely low hours. Built in late 1999, factory duplexer, narrow band/Expand capable, DPL or PL, CW ID . Photos on request. Located in Los Angeles County, can program/tune duplexer. Ready to go to work!
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
Any feelings on the ACS/MCS/Kendecom dynasty? I'm trying to decide whether or not to spruce up the club's old repeater as a spare or look for something different for a spare. I've never had to deal with their RF units before... Only the Mark IV controller, which I was not real pleased with. On Nov 22, 2008, at 6:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11/22/2008 07:54, you wrote: Brands to stay away from Hamtronics Maggorie (sp) Spectrum. IMO the worst by far. Bob NO6B -- Cort Buffington H: +1-785-838-3034 M: +1-785-865-7206
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
Makes a nice wheel chocke for a B-17 No really Anything that is not a commercially made repeater made by one of the main stream makers... Motorola GE/MaCom Midland Icom Kenwood Tait Vertex Maybe EFJ (don't care for them too much). Should be stayed away from. A prime example is the Hamtronics series (which are still made) or the Spectrum. Not stable, hard to work on, very little support and no front end. I have a repeater site on a hill here in Austin that I use to test repeaters we are considering for purchase/use by my state agency. The VHF noise floor starts at -67db and gets worse at UHF and is -40 at 800-900 due to tv and trunk systems. Lots of BIG smoke TV, radio broadcast and digital stuff. I have to use a crystal filter system to help knock down the out of band noise (there is almost no VHF emitters on the hill). If the repeater survives and works up there it will work anywhere. So far the only ones that have are the Motorola Quantar and the Midland Base tech III with P-25 (NOT the standard Midland repeater). I don't do MaCom. When they changes the name from GE and sold the company and ceased production of the Mastr II, I dropped them. Just my 2 cents, but it comes the hard wayby testing them. Paul Gilbert Austin, Texas Texas Dept of Transportation Radio Operations On Sat, Nov 22, 2008 at 8:12 PM, Cort Buffington [EMAIL PROTECTED]wrote: Any feelings on the ACS/MCS/Kendecom dynasty? I'm trying to decide whether or not to spruce up the club's old repeater as a spare or look for something different for a spare. I've never had to deal with their RF units before... Only the Mark IV controller, which I was not real pleased with. On Nov 22, 2008, at 6:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11/22/2008 07:54, you wrote: Brands to stay away from Hamtronics Maggorie (sp) Spectrum. IMO the worst by far. Bob NO6B -- Cort Buffington H: +1-785-838-3034 M: +1-785-865-7206
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
I've got an old Mark IV on a fairly active site running with a CAT-1000 controller and it's been flawless. Audio is great and it's just generally been well behaved. I also have another Mark IV running with the original on-board controller. This is our spare and despite suffering a lightning strike through the phone line several years ago it still plugs along pretty well. Obviously the autopatch is out-of-service and the controller itself is dated (compared to my CAT-1000), but it does very well for a spare. 73, Mike WM4B _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Cort Buffington Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 9:13 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band Any feelings on the ACS/MCS/Kendecom dynasty? I'm trying to decide whether or not to spruce up the club's old repeater as a spare or look for something different for a spare. I've never had to deal with their RF units before... Only the Mark IV controller, which I was not real pleased with. On Nov 22, 2008, at 6:08 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: At 11/22/2008 07:54, you wrote: Brands to stay away from Hamtronics Maggorie (sp) Spectrum. IMO the worst by far. Bob NO6B -- Cort Buffington H: +1-785-838-3034 M: +1-785-865-7206
Re: [Repeater-Builder] MTR 2000
After reading the replys, get the Motorola, either new or used. There is an old saying the public safety radio world No one ever got fired for buying Motorola Paul,ZW On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 12:36 PM, John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: To help me determine whether the Motorola MTR 2000 is our of my club's funding range, would someone tell me approximately what a ham radio club would have to pay for such a repeater? John
[Repeater-Builder] Repeater Hangtime Circuit
Hi, i am in need of a repeater hangtime circuit, iv reviewed the one on repeater builder website, but was wondering if there is one that someone has made with a 555 timer IC? Thanks, jeff-kg6uyz
[Repeater-Builder] 450-460mhz Repeater Co-Channel Interference
Can anyone tell me if there are ANY fixes for co-channel interference? What is the use of a PL tone if it isn't able to block out the co- channel users? Is it because the co-channel user is transmitting with more power and is able to break the PL tone? What are the expectations of a PL tone? When does it work and when does it not work? Are there other devices that can help all? Thanks in advance!
[Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000
I have an SCR-1000 that was being used as a local repeater and then was replaced. I am looking for information on the control circuits, how to program the IDer, a service and or users manual and any other info I can find. The unit is VHF (not sure if that matters). There have been a number of modifications done to this unit that need to be removed and the unit put back to it's out of box configuration if possible. I thank you for any help you may be able to provide. Keith KB8VUL
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
From my limited experience I'd have to suggest you give a serious look at the Maggiore Hi-Pro. As non-commercial units go, those are pretty good. Don't hold a candle to Motorola and cost a little more new than a used Motorola repeater but you also don't need the Motorola software, cables, etc to work on them. YMMV - there's a lot better repeater guys on here than me but I thought my .02 would be worthwhile. Chuck / W3YNI On Fri, Nov 21, 2008 at 10:19 AM, John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: My ham radio club is ready to replace our 440 repeater. I have read the spec/data sheets on the Icom IC FR-4000 and the Kenwood TKR-850. Here are my questions: Are these among the best modern repeaters available? Is one or the other superior? Is there a different repeater you would prefer or recommend? What good/bad experience have you had with the Icom or Kenwood (or with related products)? Are there specific brands or models to avoid? Information that might be relevant: The repeater will be in a standard 19-inch rack mount cabinet. It will be inside, not exposed to the elements . It can be used with or without a power amplifier (5W in, 90W out). I would like the power out to be near the 90W. The frequency pair has 5MHz separation. TX is on 448.375MHz; RX on 443.375MHz. The duplexer is a Motorola T1504A I would appreciate the benefit of your experience. Thanks. John Transue, Trustee Vienna Wireless Society Vienna, VA -- = Charles L. Mills Westmoreland Co. ARES EC Amateur Radio Callsign W3YNI Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[Repeater-Builder] Re: 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS
How are you going to put a duplex channel in the DTRs' ie. make the DTR rx on channel 1 and tx on channel 12 with just a PTT, for the portables in use on the farm?
[Repeater-Builder] Wanted : Hamtronics R302 Receiver
Hello to all and thanks for reading. I am looking to buy your unwanted Hamtronics R302 receiver for a 2 meter ham application. Would prefer a working radio, but will consider all, as long as it hasn't been fried by lightning. Please state price and condition in first email. Thanks, Howard
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2.4 Ghz wireless radio and 145.410 repeater
Mathew, Don't give up, look for another site if possible for the machine, if the interference issues can't be resolved..Would hate to see this happen. Hope all is well otherwise. Dan N9WNH --- On Thu, 11/20/08, n9lv [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: n9lv [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: 2.4 Ghz wireless radio and 145.410 repeater To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Thursday, November 20, 2008, 9:30 PM There was a local VHF machine up here that was getting some interference into it. After some testing with trial and error, they moved the wireless internet antenna and the problem went away. Wished it was that easy. My family insist on having the internet. So goes the repeater if I can't find a solution for it. Mathew Eric. n9lv wrote: I just had a 2.4 Ghz internet wireless antenna mounted at the top of my 120' tower which is where the antenna is for the 145.410 repeater. I am getting intermod into the system that causes it to hang open. Anyone ever had these issues and how did you go about remeding the problem. And I can't shut off the internet as the family would hang me, and would rather not shut off the repeater. There is besides the TXRX duplexers two DB4001 filter duplexers on the system. Funny part is that once it starts the interference, I can remove antenna from the receiver and it continues to intermod until I kill the transmitter. I can hit the remote PTT and it will key the repeater, no noise into the system until I reattach the antenna port to the receiver. Thanks. Mathew
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[Repeater-Builder] Sinclair q202gc duplexers
I am new to the sinclair line of duplexers. I have a set of used vhf duplexers setup in the high vhf range. current freqs are 165.2375 and 165.1375. Has anyone had luck changing the coax harness to the longer 36cm and getting the duplexers to tune down to the two meter band? Thanks -Jason
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM-300 Repeater (was 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS)
Jim, But it will work on the Motorola DTR (digital) FHSS handheld? I am worry about the FHSS. Thanks - Original Message - From: Jim Brown To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, November 18, 2008 1:19 AM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] GM-300 Repeater (was 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS) Andre, a pair of Motorola GM-300 radios can be interconnected as a repeater using a cable available on eBay for about 10 USD. I have used two radios set up like this, one as the receive and the other as the transmit and they worked just fine as a repeater. No squelch tail on the simple cable, but no problem getting them to work. The cable has a pot to set the repeated deviation, and that is the only adjustment required. 73 - Jim W5ZIT --- On Mon, 11/17/08, ANDRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: ANDRE [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 900mhz , DTR, 906 to 923.75 MHz FHSS To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Monday, November 17, 2008, 6:56 AM Benjamin, Do you know any brand, model? Thanks
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Good Repeaters for UHF Ham Band
At 11/22/2008 18:12, you wrote: Any feelings on the ACS/MCS/Kendecom dynasty? Oops, forgot Kendecom. 2nd worst. The RXs are OK provided you bypass the defective squelch circuit add a Micor squelch. Still, there are problems with either IF filter leakage or IF amp overload, resulting in strong adjacent channel signals wreaking havoc with the noise squelch. The RF front ends appear to be well designed. Their TXs controllers aren't worth the bits in this message. Bob NO6B
[Repeater-Builder] Re: MTR 2000
John, I would have to agree with James here on this topic. A MTR2000 is pretty spendy for most clubs. For my money a MSF5000 is very hard to beat and I have found the software to be a little more flexible for having the programming options that work well for amateur radio use. I would recommend using a external controller for the flexibility. You can't beat a MSF5000 for the price/vs performance. Like the MTR2000, they are welcome on any commercial site that I have ever been around. Joe - WA7JAW --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, James Adkins [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I'd highly recommend a Motorola MSF-5000 that's PC programmable. They are bulletproof and can be had for probably half of a used MTR-2000. On 11/21/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: You can expect to spend at least $1000 for a used MTR and anywhere from $4000 to $7000 for a new one. 40 watt units are a little cheaper than 100 watt but not by much. I'd recommend looking for something else because the MTR's can be expensive to repair should any repair be needed that requires module replacement. True service manuals are not available (never have been) and even flat rate repair is a little pricey. Also they won't apply flat rate to one that has lightening damage. Gary John Transue [EMAIL PROTECTED] jtransue%40cox.net wrote: To help me determine whether the Motorola MTR 2000 is our of my club's funding range, would someone tell me approximately what a ham radio club would have to pay for such a repeater? John -- James Adkins, KB0NHX District 1 Technical Field Engineer Troop A--Lee's Summit; Troop H--St. Joseph Missouri State Highway Patrol 504 SE Blue Parkway Lee's Summit, MO 64063 816-622-0707 ext. 235 417-840-5261 (Cell) I'm James Adkins and I approve this message
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Sinclair q202gc duplexers
At 11/21/2008 20:03, you wrote: I am new to the sinclair line of duplexers. I have a set of used vhf duplexers setup in the high vhf range. current freqs are 165.2375 and 165.1375. Has anyone had luck changing the coax harness to the longer 36cm and getting the duplexers to tune down to the two meter band? Direct answer: yes. To get it to work on 2 meters, the jumpers running from each can to the attached Ts need to be lengthened. Although I got acceptable from the one I had after doing this, for optimum performance all the cables need to be lengthened. Bob NO6B
Re: [Repeater-Builder] unsubscribe
At 03:22 PM 11/22/08, you wrote: unsubscribe Your email settings: Individual Email|Traditional http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOWd0cHFrBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDc3RuZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyNzQxNzIxOA--Change settings via the Web (Yahoo! ID required) Change settings via email: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery: DigestSwitch delivery to Daily Digest | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Delivery Format: Fully FeaturedSwitch to Fully Featured http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder;_ylc=X3oDMTJjMHVlN3VrBF9TAzk3NDc2NTkwBGdycElkAzEwNDE2OARncnBzcElkAzE3MDUwNjMxMDgEc2VjA2Z0cgRzbGsDaHBmBHN0aW1lAzEyMjc0MTcyMTg-Visit Your Group | http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use | mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Unsubscribe You have to do that yourself. Look at the last word of the last line of the footer. Click on it.
[Repeater-Builder] Need SWR meter recomendation
Hey Everyone, I know there is a mix of Hams and commercial guys here so I want to ask all of you about SWR meters. I am a beginning ham and would like to build some VHF and UHF antennas. I am also on a budget. (Isn't everyone these days) I need a decent SWR meter for VHF and UHF use. I don't want a cheap piece of crap, and I can't afford top of the line either. What do you all think of the MFJ products? Other suggestions? Thanks
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000
I have one of those critters also, but no book. Spectrum wants a small fortune for it. As for the ID unit, it is a burned chip that is not really available. I would suggest an after market one. That is what I know so far... 73 Mike - N7ZEF - Original Message - From: Keith Foor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:02 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000 I have an SCR-1000 that was being used as a local repeater and then was replaced. I am looking for information on the control circuits, how to program the IDer, a service and or users manual and any other info I can find. The unit is VHF (not sure if that matters). There have been a number of modifications done to this unit that need to be removed and the unit put back to it's out of box configuration if possible. I thank you for any help you may be able to provide. Keith KB8VUL Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Need SWR meter recomendation
Albert, I've had friends joke about MFJ standing for mighty fine junk, but I have nothing but good things to say about my MFJ 259 antenna analyzer. If you're building antennas, the MFJ 259 (HF/VHF) or 269 (HF/VHF/UHF) are really handy. If you're trying to find the resonant frequency or set up a gamma match, they'll save a ton of time compared to an SWR bridge/transmitter combination, and give you more information, such as resistance and reactance displayed separately on the LCD. It also serves as a counter and, in a pinch, as a (not-very-stable and somewhat microphonic) signal generator. But remember the limitations. You can't transmit through them, so they can't be used to monitor the behavior of an antenna under operating conditions. They can't be used to measure a transmitter's output power like most SWR bridges. They're also prone to error in any environment where strong external signals from nearby transmitters overwhelm the test signal internally generated by the analyzer, which results in a false reading of reflected power. I would recommend these little boxes to anyone, but do have one major complaint - the internal battery scheme. The thing takes 10 AA cells, they don't last long, and you have to remove several screws and the case to change them. You have to be really careful how you transport the 259, because the power button sticks out where any bump will turn it on, and run your batteries down. After having the power bumped on during storage and a resulting leak of the alkalines after they ran down, I cleaned it up (no permanent damage) and just don't put batteries in mine any more. I use it on the AC adapter, a cigarette lighter cord, or an external battery pack, all plugged into the 15V input. But I won't be without one! 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Albert To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 10:59 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Need SWR meter recomendation Hey Everyone, I know there is a mix of Hams and commercial guys here so I want to ask all of you about SWR meters. I am a beginning ham and would like to build some VHF and UHF antennas. I am also on a budget. (Isn't everyone these days) I need a decent SWR meter for VHF and UHF use. I don't want a cheap piece of crap, and I can't afford top of the line either. What do you all think of the MFJ products? Other suggestions? Thanks
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000
These repeaters got a bad reputation in part because of hams who tuned them be peaking rather than using the procedure in the manual. The PA was fairly efficient, but not unconditionally stable, and could produce spurs if not properly tuned. One other issue was the combination of Spectrum repeater and ACC controller, which was once a very common setup. One of the busier systems in Atlanta in the 80's used this combo, and despite proper tuning, it was incredible dirty, with spurs at regular frequency intervals. Many hairs were torn out until it was discovered that the ACC's digital clocking noise passed down the PTT line was actually modulating the exciter. From my point of view, that's a boo/hiss on both ACC and Spectrum. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: Mike Reed To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000 I have one of those critters also, but no book. Spectrum wants a small fortune for it. As for the ID unit, it is a burned chip that is not really available. I would suggest an after market one. That is what I know so far... 73 Mike - N7ZEF - Original Message - From: Keith Foor [EMAIL PROTECTED] To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:02 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000 I have an SCR-1000 that was being used as a local repeater and then was replaced. I am looking for information on the control circuits, how to program the IDer, a service and or users manual and any other info I can find. The unit is VHF (not sure if that matters). There have been a number of modifications done to this unit that need to be removed and the unit put back to it's out of box configuration if possible. I thank you for any help you may be able to provide. Keith KB8VUL Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] Do they make a mobile duplexer like this?
Morning crew, Been looking for a duplexer that will do the 0.600 split for a mobile repeater. Space is a big consideration for this project. If anyone has any suggestions please email me and let me know. Thanks Peter Summerhawk
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000
How about the 15KHz coming down the audio lines? ACC also had a situation where they took a 15KHz clock pulse train from the microprocessor circuitry, amplified it with an LM386 audio amp, rectified it, filtered it, and used it as the raw negative voltage supply into the negative voltage regulator that fed all of the audio stages. I was an inventive and elegant way to generate a negative voltage from a positive supply. Until the filter caps dried out. Then you had a 15khz square wave modulation impressed on top of the repeater transmitter and link transmitter (actually the remote base) audio. The average ham monitoring the channel never heard it, BUT THE REPEATER INPUTS 15KHz AWAY DID. There was a spur every 15khz up and down the band (the amount of spectrum that was trashed depended on the cavity filters of the duplexer, if any). The solution? Replace EVERY electrolytic cap in the entire ACC controller with quality parts rated at 75 degrees C (if not 85 degrees C). I did several controllers, and told several other controller owners about the problem and they fixed their own boxen. Funny thing - the average stock Motorola and GE repeater station owner didn't have a problem because the splatter filters (that were designed in from the factory) just wouldn't let 15KHz through. Mike WA6ILQ At 11:01 PM 11/22/08, you wrote: These repeaters got a bad reputation in part because of hams who tuned them be peaking rather than using the procedure in the manual. The PA was fairly efficient, but not unconditionally stable, and could produce spurs if not properly tuned. One other issue was the combination of Spectrum repeater and ACC controller, which was once a very common setup. One of the busier systems in Atlanta in the 80's used this combo, and despite proper tuning, it was incredible dirty, with spurs at regular frequency intervals. Many hairs were torn out until it was discovered that the ACC's digital clocking noise passed down the PTT line was actually modulating the exciter. From my point of view, that's a boo/hiss on both ACC and Spectrum. 73, Paul, AE4KR - Original Message - From: mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]Mike Reed To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Saturday, November 22, 2008 11:44 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000 I have one of those critters also, but no book. Spectrum wants a small fortune for it. As for the ID unit, it is a burned chip that is not really available. I would suggest an after market one. That is what I know so far... 73 Mike - N7ZEF - Original Message - From: Keith Foor mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED][EMAIL PROTECTED] To: mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Thursday, November 20, 2008 1:02 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Information on Spectrum Communications SCR-1000 I have an SCR-1000 that was being used as a local repeater and then was replaced. I am looking for information on the control circuits, how to program the IDer, a service and or users manual and any other info I can find. The unit is VHF (not sure if that matters). There have been a number of modifications done to this unit that need to be removed and the unit put back to it's out of box configuration if possible. I thank you for any help you may be able to provide. Keith KB8VUL Yahoo! Groups Links
