Re: [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA & 70 cm band coordination

[no6b]

At 5/4/2009 17:46, you wrote:
>This could get real interesting, real fast, since the big difference between
>SCRRBA and TASMA band plans is whether the 70cm repeater inputs should be
>above or below the outputs.  They are opposite polarities!
>
>73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

TASMA has a 70 cm bandplan?  That's news to me!

Bob NO6B
Chairman, TASMA

[Repeater-Builder] MSF5000 440 UHF

[Bob Luttrull]

Hi all 
I am having a problem with my repeater. It is a MSF5000 440 UHF 110W. I was 
told that it might have crystal hairs in the TX duplexer. People are telling me 
that I need to disassemble the duplexer and clean it with a toothbrush to get 
the crystals out and use a nolock on the adjustment screws.  Is that right?  If 
not can someone fill me in on the correct way to do it and the right things to 
use?  I don't have a service manual for the unit but I don't think I will have 
a problem. 
Thanks
Bob
kd7ikz 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating responsibilities for the 440 band

[Eric Lemmon]

Oops!  You're absolutely correct.  Must be that continuous loss of brain
cells that teetotalers keep warning me about...

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of wa6vpl
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:10 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over
coordinating responsibilities for the 440 band



Eric,

 

I think you are referring to the differences between northern and southern
California 440 coordination administered by SCRRBA and NARCC.  The northern
coordinator is NARCC (Northern Amateur Relay Council of California -
http://www.narcc.org/  ).  Northern CA is low output
and southern CA is high output.  Not only does this issue exist, there is
the southern 20 kHz channel steps versus the northern 25 kHz channel steps
to contend with.  Someday there may be a uniform 440 band plan for this
region of the U.S.

 

Jim

   

 



From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:47 PM
To: repeaterownersassociat...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating
responsibilities for the 440 band

 






This could get real interesting, real fast, since the big difference between
SCRRBA and TASMA band plans is whether the 70cm repeater inputs should be
above or below the outputs. They are opposite polarities! 

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Ryan]

Totally agree with Nate, Hams can talk great distances using the least 
expensive means. and have seen my fair share of ham and commercial installsm 
usally revolves making the sale at any cost. this is the 2-way radio industry 
everyone is cutting everyones prices.

Personally hams should be the best clients insted of shotty installs and listen 
to the hams bad mouth the tower owners or tower mangers. Hams need to remember 
its a privlage not a right to be at a tower site and take all steps to be with 
in compliance with mechanical and electrical codes. Yes owning a repeater is 
not cheap but the upfront expences pay off down the road.


Ryan n3ssl 

 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating responsibilities for the 440 band

[MCH]

There was one nationwide (minus the polarity) until NARCC changed...

Joe M.

wa6vpl wrote:
> 
> 
> Eric,
> 
>  
> 
> I think you are referring to the differences between northern and 
> southern California 440 coordination administered by SCRRBA and NARCC.  
> The northern coordinator is NARCC (Northern Amateur Relay Council of 
> California - http://www.narcc.org/).  Northern CA is low output and 
> southern CA is high output.  Not only does this issue exist, there is 
> the southern 20 kHz channel steps versus the northern 25 kHz channel 
> steps to contend with.  Someday there may be a uniform 440 band plan for 
> this region of the U.S.
> 
>  
> 
> Jim
> 
>
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> *From:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] *On Behalf Of *Eric Lemmon
> *Sent:* Monday, May 04, 2009 5:47 PM
> *To:* repeaterownersassociat...@googlegroups.com
> *Cc:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> *Subject:* [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over 
> coordinating responsibilities for the 440 band
> 
>  
> 
> 
> 
> 
> This could get real interesting, real fast, since the big difference between
> SCRRBA and TASMA band plans is whether the 70cm repeater inputs should be
> above or below the outputs. They are opposite polarities!
> 
> 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Paul Plack]

LOL...this is the real point of APRS. We need to display callsigns on the front 
of the user's radio!

You know, like D-Star, only analog...

  - Original Message - 
  From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:47 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project






  Paul, 



  I've actually HEARD comments about CW ID's (not on any of my systems 
thankfully. but up in the ATL area) from several repeater users.  Something 
about not being able to tell what repeater they're on.  (I guess the frequency 
isn't a good enough clue.)  
  . 

  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating responsibilities for the 440 band

[wa6vpl]

Eric,

 

I think you are referring to the differences between northern and southern
California 440 coordination administered by SCRRBA and NARCC.  The northern
coordinator is NARCC (Northern Amateur Relay Council of California -
http://www.narcc.org/).  Northern CA is low output and southern CA is high
output.  Not only does this issue exist, there is the southern 20 kHz
channel steps versus the northern 25 kHz channel steps to contend with.
Someday there may be a uniform 440 band plan for this region of the U.S.

 

Jim

   

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:47 PM
To: repeaterownersassociat...@googlegroups.com
Cc: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating
responsibilities for the 440 band

 






This could get real interesting, real fast, since the big difference between
SCRRBA and TASMA band plans is whether the 70cm repeater inputs should be
above or below the outputs. They are opposite polarities! 

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Paul, 

 

I've actually HEARD comments about CW ID's (not on any of my systems
thankfully. but up in the ATL area) from several repeater users.  Something
about not being able to tell what repeater they're on.  (I guess the
frequency isn't a good enough clue.)  

 

Kinda makes me want to take the voice ID's off my systems!

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 9:40 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

 






Larry,

 

I hear ya, and this is probably what the folks who consider this vague and
unenforceable refer to.

 

I'm sure we'll be hearing "/R" for years to come. In fact, before it goes
out of use, I expect to start hearing new Technician-class licensees start
asking on-air, "Hey...what's that wierd beeping noise I keep hearing about
every ten minutes?" 

 

My comment on 10-codes was only to suggest the FCC would have many layers of
other priorities to wade through before getting to "/R" on repeaters, not to
suggest that you condone ciphers.

 

And...thanks for taking this in the spirit of friendly debate in which it
was intended. ;^)

 

73,

Paul, AE4KR

 

- Original Message - 

From: Larry   Wagoner 

To: Repeater-Builder@ 
yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:54 PM

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

 

At 01:52 PM 5/4/2009, you wrote:

...The question is posed by the addition of anything that could reasonably
be seen to obscure, hide or somehow bring one to the belief that the
identifying sign was something other than what it is...

..."10-codes"?  I don't use those either.  Indeed - I TEACH prospective
technicians - and the non-use of ciphers is part of my course...



.

 
 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Paul Plack]

Larry,

I hear ya, and this is probably what the folks who consider this vague and 
unenforceable refer to.

I'm sure we'll be hearing "/R" for years to come. In fact, before it goes out 
of use, I expect to start hearing new Technician-class licensees start asking 
on-air, "Hey...what's that wierd beeping noise I keep hearing about every ten 
minutes?" 

My comment on 10-codes was only to suggest the FCC would have many layers of 
other priorities to wade through before getting to "/R" on repeaters, not to 
suggest that you condone ciphers.

And...thanks for taking this in the spirit of friendly debate in which it was 
intended. ;^)

73,
Paul, AE4KR

  - Original Message - 
  From: Larry Wagoner 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:54 PM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project





  At 01:52 PM 5/4/2009, you wrote:


...The question is posed by the addition of anything that could reasonably 
be seen to obscure, hide or somehow bring one to the belief that the 
identifying sign was something other than what it is...

..."10-codes"?  I don't use those either.  Indeed - I TEACH prospective 
technicians - and the non-use of ciphers is part of my course...
  . 

  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Thanks Mike.  I'll file that trick away for future use!

 

Mike

WM4B

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 7:10 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question

 






At 02:22 PM 05/04/09, you wrote:

Mike,
 
I assume the purpose of the paint can is to act as a Faraday cage? 


Yep. Cheap coax is lossy and leaky.




Is it attached to the common-point ground system or left freestanding?


If I remember the situation (it's been over 15 years since I shot the photo)

it was freestanding (but the DC continuity went from the shield of coax #1 
through the connector to the paint can lid to the connector #2).  Of course 
it also went through the coax braid.

The can was just in the coax line from the exciter to the PA deck.  Nothing 
fancy, just two superflex jumpers and the attenuator can.




73,
 
Mike
WM4B
 
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [

mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:19 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question
 



At 06:07 AM 05/04/09, you wrote:
> >> The amp is a UHF PA off a mobile rig, and I needed about
> >> 50 feet of RG58U to attenuate the signal from the repeater
> >> into the amp module.
> >
> > Not good, probably better to bypass (not use) the 15 watt
> > amplifier and drive the external amp direct from the exciter.
>
> Not a thing wrong with using a length of coax as an attenuator if it's
>done right. Have used this technique often when a little attenuation is
>needed.
>
>Al, K9SI

Somewhere I've got a couple of photos of attenuators made from a paint
can with coil of coax inside it. A pair of hooded SO239s on the lid and
you're done. One is of a 5 gallon paint can, the other of a 1 gallon.

Mike

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Larry Wagoner]

At 01:52 PM 5/4/2009, you wrote:
With all due respect, Larry, your "ONE QUESTION" is a test unrelated 
to what the rule says. The rule itself says it applies to the 
additional self-assigned identifier separated by the "/", so the 
question is the conflict posed by "R," not "/R." If the "/" was 
included in the conflict test, there would be no reason for the 
rule, since no country is allocated "/" or other non-alphanumerics 
as part of its national call letter pool.


Au contrare, my friend.
The question is posed by the addition of anything that could 
reasonably be seen to obscure, hide or somehow bring one to the 
belief that the identifying sign was something other than what it is.
The "/R" addition to a callsign does not and indeed - CANNOT do that, 
as "R" alone is NOT an identifier that is associated with another country.
You might as well argue that the use of ANY of the 26 letters of the 
alphabet are inadmissible because SOMEONE might ue them in their own 
callsign. For that matter - the 10 digits are also out - same reasoning.

Sorry - but I stand by my comments.
The "/R" addendum to a callsign is NOT a violation of the 
"self-assigned identifier rule".


Nothing in the rule limits "conflict" to the amateur service. If 
another country has the authorization under international treaty to 
give broadcasters, ships at sea, or long-range baby monitors a 
callsign beginning with (or consisting of) "R," we can't legally use 
it following a "/". Sure, it's a one-size-fits-all rule, but what's new?


Again - WRONG.  The question is whether or not "/R" ALONE is an 
identifier for another country - which it is NOT.


Good amateur practice would suggest the shortest legal repeater ID 
regardless, to reduce the time you're occupying the spectrum. If the 
"/R" is not required, why would anyone use it? To distinguish the 
repeater from all the other Morse chatter you hear on 2m FM?


More accurately, to distinguish the repeater ID'er from ANY other 
traffic - including that of the individual whose license the releater "uses".


All that said, Larry, I don't think you're in danger of an imminent 
enforcement action. The FCC doesn't have time to chase violations 
that draw no complaints. In fact, in the current political 
environment, if the Russians made a fuss, the feds would probably enjoy it.


I am assuredly not in danger of ANY enforcement - as I do not have my 
callsign on any repeater at the moment, nor am I the trustee for any 
repeater. I simply understand what the words in the English language MEAN.



If the FCC starts cracking down on 10-codes used on 2m, maybe worry then.


"10-codes"?  I don't use those either.  Indeed - I TEACH prospective 
technicians - and the non-use of ciphers is part of my course.



Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
VP - PRCARC
PIC - MS SECT ARRL 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Eric Lemmon]

Kris,

There's a bit of disinformation in your message.  The GR1225 contains a
full-duplex R1225 transceiver, which includes a controller inside the single
chassis.  The others are pairs of mobile radios.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kris Kirby
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 12:58 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality



http://www.radioexpressinc.com/repeaters.htm
 

Motorola GR500, GR1225, CDR500, CDR700 -- all of them are: a pair of 
mobiles in a box.

--
Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
Disinformation Analyst

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Mike Mullarkey]

I have to agree that the first version Mototrbo XPR series repeater looks to
be a set of mobile radios just like the crap ICOM puts out called D-Star.
However, they have the board that upgrades the MTR2000 repeater to make it
TDMA and that is a real repeater. It would be hard to find anything that
performs better for the price. 

 

Mike K7PFJ

 

 

  _  

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Nate Duehr
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 3:48 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

 







On Mon, 4 May 2009 14:57:34 -0500 (CDT), "Kris Kirby" mailto:kris%40catonic.us> us>
said:
> On Mon, 4 May 2009, Nate Duehr wrote:
> > There are GOOD ham radio tenants, and bad ones... that's for sure. 
> > If it were up to me, I'd have made ONE phone call to this guy saying 
> > his repeater was no longer welcome at the site, disconnected it, 
> > changed the door code, and set that "mobiles in a cabinet" hunk of 
> 
> Point of order:
> 
> http://batboard.

batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69658&hilit
> 
> That's a cutting-edge Motorola TRBO. And yes, it's a pair of mobiles in 
> a 4U rack box.
> 
> http://www.radioexp 
ressinc.com/repeaters.htm
> 
> Motorola GR500, GR1225, CDR500, CDR700 -- all of them are: a pair of 
> mobiles in a box.

So you're saying if Motorola engineers jumped off a bridge, you'd jump
too?

Not sure what your point is, unless you're trying to prove Moto's
quality on the low-end has deteriorated? They're not exactly a shining
star of engineering skill these days. They're just copying the crowd. 
And the crowd wants cheap crap.

Nate WY0X
--
Nate Duehr
n...@natetech.  com

[Repeater-Builder] RE: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating responsibilities for the 440 band

[Eric Lemmon]

This could get real interesting, real fast, since the big difference between
SCRRBA and TASMA band plans is whether the 70cm repeater inputs should be
above or below the outputs.  They are opposite polarities! 

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

-Original Message-
From: Jeff [mailto:jeff.92...@yahoo.com] 
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 3:30 PM
To: repeaterownersassociat...@googlegroups.com
Subject: Re: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating responsibilities
for the 440 band

Larry,

In my personal opinion, I would not want a repeater trustee, or repeater
owner to be heading up a coordinating committee. NO6B, as I recall,
has been both while on various decision making positions at TASMA.

Also, anyone on TASMA or SCRBBA should NOT be considered for
any coordination of any kind while also engaged in coordination, and
even after leaving a coordination group, should give up their rights
to a new coordination for some period, say 5  years.

There is probably a desire on the part of some 2-meter repeater
owners to take over some of the 440 coordinations to further their
"global" expansion plans, or linking plans, or whatever they have in
mind for 440.

Good luck.

Jeff, W6FCC
Formerly WA4EGT



--- On Mon, 5/4/09, larryw6lar  wrote:



From: larryw6lar 
Subject: Re: TASMA makes a move to take over coordinating
responsibilities for the 440 band
To: repeaterownersassociat...@googlegroups.com
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 11:14 AM



WA6ARC wrote:
> A storm is brewing in Southern California as TASMA makes a move to
> take over coordinating responsibilities for the 440 band. In what
one
> repeater owner referred to as a "turf war", others believe the
move
> will streamline the process, eliminate duplication and cut costs
of
> services by eliminating SCRRBA.
>
> Multiple complaints have been heard over the years about the lack
of
> cooperation with repeater owners and SCRRBA leadership. A group of
> repeater owners recently approached TASMA and requested that TASMA
> assume the role of coordinator of the 440 band and the new board
at
> TASMA agreed in principle to move ahead with the idea.
>
> TASMA established a working group at the December meeting and the
> group has issued a recommendation to the members to change the
bylaws
> of TASMA to become the 440 band coordinator.
> Below are the proposed changes that will be voted on by TASMA
> membership at the next general meeting.
>
>
> 1. Meeting began with a discussion of the proposed bylaw changes
> necessary to enable 440 coordination. The bylaw changes had been
> revised based on the discussions in the April 25 meeting. Two set
of
> changes were presented. The first marked "Vote 1" consisted of
three
> bylaw changes that needed to be made to enable 440 coordination.
The
> second marked "Vote 2" was a bylaw change to change the
organizations
> name. The bylaws were reviewed and were accepted without any
changes.
>
> 2. The draft motion to be presented to the membership to enable
440
> coordination was reviewed and discussed. There was a discussion
about
> wording changes Bob NO6B wanted to see in the second paragraph.
All
> attendees agreed to change the motion to incorporate the changes
Bob
> proposed to the committee. The discussion also touched on how 70
> centimeter functional standards might differ from 2 Meter
standards.
> All attendees agreed to start the process using the 2 meter
standards
> and to have the Technical Committee decide the functional standard
> changes necessary for 70 centimeters using standard TASMA
procedures.
>
> 3. The section of the motion to provide grandfathered coordination
was
> discussed. The discussion centered around the length of time of
the
> "transition period" in which grandfathered coordinations would be
> allowed. The discussion was about how much time was reasonable to
> submit a RFC for grandfathered coordination and how fast the
Technical
> Committee could respond to grandfather RFCs. There was concern
that
> the Technical Committee may be overwhelmed by the volume of
> grandfathered coordination requests. There was also concern that
lack
> of a deadline would create problems for the Technical Committee in
the
> long run. After considerable discussion, the attendees decided to
set
> the grandfather RFC time limit to expire 12/31/11. The time period
was
> set for six months to inform the amateur community about the
changes
> and for eighteen months to submit the grandfather RFC. The
attendees
> also decided that the deadline applied to the submission of the
> gr

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Ham installation quality/non-quality

[T.J.]

The funny/sad thing is I've seen "professional" installs that are on the same 
par as that also.  It's hard to believe people get away charging for these type 
installs and stay in business.  In fact I was at one of my work sites today 
installing a PDR3500 as a temporary repeater and saw a similar setup by a 
commercial company that I know sells time on their community UHF repeater.  GE 
mobile as a receiver, Motorola radius as a transmitter hooked to a Selectone 
community tone panel with RG58 strung across the room to the 
multicoupler/combiner.  What sad is my backyard repeater is setup much better 
than that and pry works much better too.  Glenayre pager transmitter and 
Motorola Spectra-Tac receiver with a Link Comm Club Deluexe controller hooked 
to my Kenwood TS-2000.  Hardline on everything but the HF off the Kenwood.  
What even sorrier is when people (hams at one of my work sites) spend thousands 
of dollars on a complete D-Star system and computer
 with internet line to the site and run RG-8 and Ham sticks on the tower for 
their antennas.  What a waste, that's the best thing you can do to kill a brand 
new would have been good system.  Least they could have done is buy some good 
commercial mono band antennas for the repeaters.  Would have only cost a couple 
hundred extra, and the system would have worked ten times better.  Oh well 
can't make everyone understand common sense and logic.

T.J.



Ham installation quality/non-quality
    Posted by: "Nate Duehr" n...@natetech.com wy0x
    Date: Mon May 4, 2009 11:53 am ((PDT))

Nightmare "f-ing Hams!" story from this weekend:

I went to a site this weekend, and the "new" Amateur repeater in the new
building the hams are moving into had 200' of 1/2 Andrews hardline on it
that I don't even know how it was operating... it looked like someone
had taken a ballpeen hammer to it at 5' lengths all the way across the
ice bridge and up the tower.  The hardline run was done INSIDE a tower
leg instead of properly up the outside cable tray/unistrut with no
hangers, and no grounding kits on the run of 1/2" anywhere.  

There was a ham grade Comet triplexer bolted to the back of an open
rack, with two ports terminated, and one open, and three mobiles and a
mobile duplexer for the "repeater" sitting on a shelf, everything
connected with RG-58, plugged into the triplexer so the link radio could
be connected to the same feedline/antenna, and then 9913 for the jumper
from the diplexer to the polyphaser panel (amazingly, they used a
polyphaser!)... then a dual-band ham-grade antenna (also looked like a
Comet - we didn't send the tower climbers up there) at the very tippy
top of the tower that was already looking like it was loose in the sites
regular 50+ MPH winds.  The power supply looked like maybe it was a
Micor supply, but more likely was homebrew to run someone's gear at
home, years ago.  The whole repeater cabinet was plugged into the tool
power outlet on the wall, and not to the overhead 15A twist locks at the
site that are supposed to be equipment power.  No grounding cable was
attached to the cabinet or to the overhead halo system.

Meanwhile the two groups that went up were installing brand new 7/8"
hardline and connectors on the new tower, putting that hardline into the
cable trays, new polyphasers, RG-400 or better jumpers from the panel to
their enclosed cabinets, new Sinclair antennas, grounding kits on all
hardline, etc.  We also ripped down all the abandoned 7/8" and "chunks"
in the hangars, took all the clipped and abandoned wire ties on the
tower and ice bridge off and threw them away, removed "extra" hangars
and stored them in the building, removed three runs of #8 bare copper
wire strung down the ice bridge as a "ground" from the tower to the
building, which would just be an intermod/noise-maker, reattached the
tower ground the both the ice-bridge and the ground rod temporarily,
(were going to do a cadweld, but it was raining and no one had a grinder
to clean the surfaces properly), picked up all site trash, etc.

There are GOOD ham radio tenants, and bad ones... that's for sure.  If
it were up to me, I'd have made ONE phone call to this guy saying his
repeater was no longer welcome at the site, disconnected it, changed the
door code, and set that "mobiles in a cabinet" hunk of junk out in rain
under a tarp for later pickup, along with stripping his virtually
destroyed 1/2" hardline and noisemaker antenna from the tower while we
had the crew up there.  RG-58 for duplexer connections?!  WTF???

Politically, I have to be a little careful here... I actually know the
ham that put this junk up, and if he reads this, I hope he's not too
offended -- but it's a nightmare waiting to happen for the rest of us on
the site.  It's so far from "commercial grade" it just shouldn't be up
there.  A backyard is a nice place for a "repeater" like that.

The above CRAP jobs are often why hams aren't welcom

[Repeater-Builder] Re: MVP Power Supply help

[Geoff Booth.]

If my memory serves me correctly.
The cross reference number is a 1N4736A ZENER DIODE.

73, Geoff, G8DZJ.

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help

[Chuck Kelsey]

No luck on a cross. Sorry.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Chuck Kelsey" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:11 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help


> New London has the GE part available for $1 ea.
>
> Still looking for a cross.
>
> Chuck
>
> - Original Message - 
> From: 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:09 PM
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help
>
>
>> Sorry I should have included it.
>>
>> 19A115528P6
>>
>> Thanks
>> Charles, NM4V
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Quoting Chuck Kelsey :
>>
>>> What is the GE part number?
>>>
>>> Chuck
>>> WB2EDV
>>>
>>> - Original Message -
>>> From: "Charles Lowery" 
>>> To: 
>>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:53 PM
>>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help
>>>
>>>
 I have a MVP Power Supply on a small repeater and the voltage is 17 V 
 on
 receive. VR1 is bad and not turning on the transistor to regulate it in
 receive. The manual does not tell me a usable part number except from
 GE.
 Can anyone give me the zener's voltage value or a suitable replacement?

 Charles Lowery, NM4V

 clow...@va.net



 



 Yahoo! Groups Links



>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help

[Chuck Kelsey]

New London has the GE part available for $1 ea.

Still looking for a cross.

Chuck

- Original Message - 
From: 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 6:09 PM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help


> Sorry I should have included it.
>
> 19A115528P6
>
> Thanks
> Charles, NM4V
>
>
>
>
> Quoting Chuck Kelsey :
>
>> What is the GE part number?
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV
>>
>> - Original Message -
>> From: "Charles Lowery" 
>> To: 
>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:53 PM
>> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help
>>
>>
>>> I have a MVP Power Supply on a small repeater and the voltage is 17 V on
>>> receive. VR1 is bad and not turning on the transistor to regulate it in
>>> receive. The manual does not tell me a usable part number except from 
>>> GE.
>>> Can anyone give me the zener's voltage value or a suitable replacement?
>>>
>>> Charles Lowery, NM4V
>>>
>>> clow...@va.net
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> 
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help

[clow...@va.net]

Sorry I should have included it.

19A115528P6

Thanks
Charles, NM4V




Quoting Chuck Kelsey :

> What is the GE part number?
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
> - Original Message -
> From: "Charles Lowery" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:53 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help
>
>
>> I have a MVP Power Supply on a small repeater and the voltage is 17 V on
>> receive. VR1 is bad and not turning on the transistor to regulate it in
>> receive. The manual does not tell me a usable part number except from GE.
>> Can anyone give me the zener's voltage value or a suitable replacement?
>>
>> Charles Lowery, NM4V
>>
>> clow...@va.net
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Maire-Radios]

knew a radio shop in Sarasota Fl that did that kind of work on a repeater 
system on an 640 foot tower  800Mhz.

good job.


  - Original Message - 
  From: Barry 
  To: repeater-builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 4:23 PM
  Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality






  Interesting read , 
  In this part of the world the regulation regarding cable installs is very 
stringent and as one licensed to do such things is a constant source of 
amusement for me , just because you have an amateur license does not mean you 
have to install like one :)
  I know of commercial installers getting fined these days who complain
  "we have been doing it this way for years"

  
  > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
  > From: wb2...@roadrunner.com
  > Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:16:47 -0400
  > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > I know a radio shop that does installs like that. It's been in business for
  >
  > over 30 years.
  >
  >
  >
  > Chuck
  >
  > WB2EDV
  >
  >
  >
  > - Original Message -
  >
  > From: "Nate Duehr">
  >
  > To:>
  >
  > Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:50 PM
  >
  > Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality
  >
  >
  >
  >> Nightmare "f-ing Hams!" story from this weekend:
  >
  >>
  >
  >> I went to a site this weekend, and the "new" Amateur repeater in the new
  >
  >> building the hams are moving into had 200' of 1/2 Andrews hardline on it
  >
  >> that I don't even know how it was operating... it looked like someone
  >
  >> had taken a ballpeen hammer to it at 5' lengths all the way across the
  >
  >> ice bridge and up the tower. The hardline run was done INSIDE a tower
  >
  >> leg instead of properly up the outside cable tray/unistrut with no
  >
  >> hangers, and no grounding kits on the run of 1/2" anywhere.
  >
  >>
  >
  >>SNIP<
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  > 
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >
  >

  __
  Looking to move somewhere new this winter? Let ninemsn property help
  
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Edomain%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Fs%5Fcid%3DFDMedia%3ANineMSN%5FHotmail%5FTagline&_t=774152450&_r=Domain_tagline&_m=EXT

  

Re: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help

[Chuck Kelsey]

What is the GE part number?

Chuck
WB2EDV

- Original Message - 
From: "Charles Lowery" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:53 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help


>I have a MVP Power Supply on a small repeater and the voltage is 17 V on 
>receive. VR1 is bad and not turning on the transistor to regulate it in 
>receive. The manual does not tell me a usable part number except from GE. 
>Can anyone give me the zener's voltage value or a suitable replacement?
>
> Charles Lowery, NM4V
>
> clow...@va.net
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

[Repeater-Builder] MVP Power Supply help

[Charles Lowery]

I have a MVP Power Supply on a small repeater and the voltage is 17 V on 
receive. VR1 is bad and not turning on the transistor to regulate it in 
receive. The manual does not tell me a usable part number except from GE. Can 
anyone give me the zener's voltage value or a suitable replacement?

Charles Lowery, NM4V

clow...@va.net

[Repeater-Builder] WANTED: db403X cans

[Chris Curtis]

Does anyone have some cans from a db4030 or db4032 duplxer ?

Just need a couple cans and harness

Thanks!

Chris
Kb0wlf

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Nate Duehr]

On Mon, 4 May 2009 14:57:34 -0500 (CDT), "Kris Kirby" 
said:
> On Mon, 4 May 2009, Nate Duehr wrote:
> > There are GOOD ham radio tenants, and bad ones... that's for sure.  
> > If it were up to me, I'd have made ONE phone call to this guy saying 
> > his repeater was no longer welcome at the site, disconnected it, 
> > changed the door code, and set that "mobiles in a cabinet" hunk of 
> 
> Point of order:
> 
> http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69658&hilit
> 
> That's a cutting-edge Motorola TRBO. And yes, it's a pair of mobiles in 
> a 4U rack box.
> 
> http://www.radioexpressinc.com/repeaters.htm
> 
> Motorola GR500, GR1225, CDR500, CDR700 -- all of them are: a pair of 
> mobiles in a box.

So you're saying if Motorola engineers jumped off a bridge, you'd jump
too?

Not sure what your point is, unless you're trying to prove Moto's
quality on the low-end has deteriorated?  They're not exactly a shining
star of engineering skill these days.  They're just copying the crowd. 
And the crowd wants cheap crap.

Nate WY0X
--
  Nate Duehr
  n...@natetech.com

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Mike,

 

I assume the purpose of the paint can is to act as a Faraday cage?  Is it
attached to the common-point ground system or left freestanding?

 

73,

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 5:19 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question

 






At 06:07 AM 05/04/09, you wrote:
> >> The amp is a UHF PA off a mobile rig, and I needed about
> >> 50 feet of RG58U to attenuate the signal from the repeater
> >> into the amp module.
> >
> > Not good, probably better to bypass (not use) the 15 watt
> > amplifier and drive the external amp direct from the exciter.
>
> Not a thing wrong with using a length of coax as an attenuator if it's
>done right. Have used this technique often when a little attenuation is
>needed.
>
>Al, K9SI

Somewhere I've got a couple of photos of attenuators made from a paint
can with coil of coax inside it. A pair of hooded SO239s on the lid and
you're done. One is of a 5 gallon paint can, the other of a 1 gallon.

Mike



<><>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 06:07 AM 05/04/09, you wrote:
> >> The amp is a UHF PA off a mobile rig, and I needed about
> >> 50 feet of RG58U to attenuate the signal from the repeater
> >> into the amp module.
> >
> > Not good, probably better to bypass (not use) the 15 watt
> > amplifier and drive the external amp direct from the exciter.
>
> Not a thing wrong with using a length of coax as an attenuator if it's
>done right. Have used this technique often when a little attenuation is
>needed.
>
>Al, K9SI

Somewhere I've got a couple of photos of attenuators made from a paint
can with coil of coax inside it.  A pair of hooded SO239s on the lid and
you're done.  One is of a 5 gallon paint can, the other of a 1 gallon.

Mike

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Barry]

Interesting read , 
In this part of the world the regulation regarding cable installs is very 
stringent and as one licensed to do such things is a constant source of 
amusement for me , just because you have an amateur license does not mean you 
have to install like one  :)
I know of commercial installers getting fined these days who complain
 "we have been doing it this way for years"


> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> From: wb2...@roadrunner.com
> Date: Mon, 4 May 2009 15:16:47 -0400
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality
>
>
>
>
>
>
> I know a radio shop that does installs like that. It's been in business for
>
> over 30 years.
>
>
>
> Chuck
>
> WB2EDV
>
>
>
> - Original Message -
>
> From: "Nate Duehr">
>
> To:>
>
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:50 PM
>
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality
>
>
>
>> Nightmare "f-ing Hams!" story from this weekend:
>
>>
>
>> I went to a site this weekend, and the "new" Amateur repeater in the new
>
>> building the hams are moving into had 200' of 1/2 Andrews hardline on it
>
>> that I don't even know how it was operating... it looked like someone
>
>> had taken a ballpeen hammer to it at 5' lengths all the way across the
>
>> ice bridge and up the tower. The hardline run was done INSIDE a tower
>
>> leg instead of properly up the outside cable tray/unistrut with no
>
>> hangers, and no grounding kits on the run of 1/2" anywhere.
>
>>
>
>>SNIP<
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> 
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

_
Looking to move somewhere new this winter? Let ninemsn property help
http://a.ninemsn.com.au/b.aspx?URL=http%3A%2F%2Fninemsn%2Edomain%2Ecom%2Eau%2F%3Fs%5Fcid%3DFDMedia%3ANineMSN%5FHotmail%5FTagline&_t=774152450&_r=Domain_tagline&_m=EXT

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Brian Raker]

As long as the presentation is good (i.e. good/proper cabling, neatly
organized, etc) it really shouldn't matter whether the lessee is using
mobiles (like I do in my CDR500 [two CDM750s and duplexers in a steel
box] or a full-out purpose-built repeater system (like an MTR2000,
Quantar or whatnot).  Mobiles when properly ventilated and designed
can be used for 100% transmit duty cycle.  This is well demonstrated
with the previously mentioned MotoTRBO system.

I'd be more aghast at the shoddy cabling (again, presentation, RF
leakage, etc) and antenna mountings.  *That* can directly affect other
tenants at the site more so than having 'mobiles in a cabinet'.

My 2 cents, for what it's worth...

-Brian / KF4ZWZ

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 12:57 PM, Kris Kirby  wrote:
> On Mon, 4 May 2009, Nate Duehr wrote:
>> There are GOOD ham radio tenants, and bad ones... that's for sure.
>> If it were up to me, I'd have made ONE phone call to this guy saying
>> his repeater was no longer welcome at the site, disconnected it,
>> changed the door code, and set that "mobiles in a cabinet" hunk of
>
> Point of order:
>
> http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69658&hilit
>
> That's a cutting-edge Motorola TRBO. And yes, it's a pair of mobiles in
> a 4U rack box.
>
> http://www.radioexpressinc.com/repeaters.htm
>
> Motorola GR500, GR1225, CDR500, CDR700 -- all of them are: a pair of
> mobiles in a box.
>
> --
> Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
> Disinformation Analyst
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Kris Kirby]

On Mon, 4 May 2009, Nate Duehr wrote:
> There are GOOD ham radio tenants, and bad ones... that's for sure.  
> If it were up to me, I'd have made ONE phone call to this guy saying 
> his repeater was no longer welcome at the site, disconnected it, 
> changed the door code, and set that "mobiles in a cabinet" hunk of 

Point of order:

http://batboard.batlabs.com/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=69658&hilit

That's a cutting-edge Motorola TRBO. And yes, it's a pair of mobiles in 
a 4U rack box.

http://www.radioexpressinc.com/repeaters.htm

Motorola GR500, GR1225, CDR500, CDR700 -- all of them are: a pair of 
mobiles in a box.

--
Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
Disinformation Analyst

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Kendecom repeater....

[Mike Morris WA6ILQ]

At 12:17 PM 05/04/09, you wrote:
>I am trying to hook up a remote base and a temp sensor to a Kendecom 
>Mark 4, anyone that can be of help will be greatly appreceated. I 
>need all the info and help I can get.
>
>Thanks, Grady W4GLE..

What controller is in the Kendecomm now?
The stock one didn't do much, and every one I've seen has used an 
outside external controller.

Remote base and analog inputs (and you'd use one of those to read 
temperature) are controller features.

Mike WA6ILQ

[Repeater-Builder] Kendecom repeater....

[Grady]

  I am trying to hook up a remote base and a temp sensor to a Kendecom Mark 4, 
anyone that can be of help will be greatly appreceated. I need all the info and 
help I can get.

 Thanks, Grady W4GLE..

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Paul Kelley N1BUG]

Got one here too!  Honestly you should see some of the 
"professionally installed" repeaters with mobile radios screwed to 
plywood, wires dangling everywhere, exposed electrical connections, 
repeater buildings with rusty metal sheets for siding flapping in 
the wind, bent leaning towers (installed that way), RG-58 jumpers, 
etc. etc. And then they complain about having intermod and can't 
figure out why!? It really annoys me to think they get paid to put 
up such crap.

Paul N1BUG



mwbese...@cox.net wrote:
> Got one like that here too.  It ain't just the hams that are amateurs!
> 
> Mike
> WM4B
> 
> 
> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:22 PM , Chuck Kelsey wrote:
> 
>> I know a radio shop that does installs like that.  It's been in 
>> business for over 30 years.
>>
>> Chuck
>> WB2EDV

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[mwbesemer]

Got one like that here too.  It ain't just the hams that are amateurs!

Mike
WM4B


On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:22 PM , Chuck Kelsey wrote:

> I know a radio shop that does installs like that.  It's been in 
> business for over 30 years.
>
> Chuck
> WB2EDV
>
>
> - Original Message - From: "Nate Duehr" 
> To: 
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:50 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality
>
>
>> Nightmare "f-ing Hams!" story from this weekend:
>>
>> I went to a site this weekend, and the "new" Amateur repeater in the 
>> new
>> building the hams are moving into had 200' of 1/2 Andrews hardline on 
>> it
>> that I don't even know how it was operating... it looked like someone
>> had taken a ballpeen hammer to it at 5' lengths all the way across 
>> the
>> ice bridge and up the tower.  The hardline run was done INSIDE a 
>> tower
>> leg instead of properly up the outside cable tray/unistrut with no
>> hangers, and no grounding kits on the run of 1/2" anywhere.
>>
>> SNIP<

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[mwbesemer]

I'm in conversation with my O-O Coordinator now.  He's digging his 
archives for the 'official read' from the FCC, but seems to recall it 
being described as being too gray to enforce, as written.

I stand by my initial assessment as the the legality of using /R, but 
also understand that it's virtually unenforceable.

It's a shame when U.S. Code is written in terms that are subject to 
interpretation.

Mike
WM4B


On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 3:16 PM , Paul Plack wrote:

> This is one of those willful fabrications of gray areas that clutter 
> rule discussions. This is why nobody discusses "remote bases" in 
> polite company anymore.
>
> With all due respect, Larry, your "ONE QUESTION" is a test unrelated 
> to what the rule says. The rule itself says it applies to the 
> additional self-assigned identifier separated by the "/", so the 
> question is the conflict posed by "R," not "/R." If the "/" was 
> included in the conflict test, there would be no reason for the rule, 
> since no country is allocated "/" or other non-alphanumerics as part 
> of its national call letter pool.
>
> Nothing in the rule limits "conflict" to the amateur service. If 
> another country has the authorization under international treaty to 
> give broadcasters, ships at sea, or long-range baby monitors a 
> callsign beginning with (or consisting of) "R," we can't legally use 
> it following a "/". Sure, it's a one-size-fits-all rule, but what's 
> new?
> Mike, thanks for pointing this out.
>
> Good amateur practice would suggest the shortest legal repeater ID 
> regardless, to reduce the time you're occupying the spectrum. If the 
> "/R" is not required, why would anyone use it? To distinguish the 
> repeater from all the other Morse chatter you hear on 2m FM? Do you 
> hold the contract to supply the 1N34 diodes used in Hamtronics matrix 
> boards? Then, why?
>
> (BTW, that's a rhetorical question. My last repeater's polite ID 
> signed /R, even though I knew it wasn't required. If I'm being honest, 
> after all the hassle of getting a pair, negotiating a site and 
> building the thing, it brought me great pleasure to hear my callsign 
> followed by Morse for "repeater." If there's any other reason for 
> hanging onto "/R" I'd love to hear it.)
>
> If you're really willing to fight to give up the "R," what about other 
> separators? If you leave a between-word space before the "R," or even 
> before a "/R," have you made it part of your callsign? Lots of 
> repeater IDs include a city, PL frequency, or other information in 
> their IDs, separated by a space from the callsign itself. We may have 
> something here!
>
> All that said, Larry, I don't think you're in danger of an imminent 
> enforcement action. The FCC doesn't have time to chase violations that 
> draw no complaints. In fact, in the current political environment, if 
> the Russians made a fuss, the feds would probably enjoy it.
>
> If the FCC starts cracking down on 10-codes used on 2m, maybe worry 
> then.
>
> Maybe, since they're all unassigned, we could use one of the 
> non-alphanumeric Morse characters to mean "repeater."
>
> ". - . . ." might be appropriate on machines inhabited by users who 
> make you wait forever to join the morning commute roundtable.
>
> ". . - - . ." might be appropriate for repeaters which are never used, 
> but sit there taking up a pair.
>
> " - - - . . . " if the repeater licensee is a real butt-head, etc.
>
> RIP, Horse. If anyone finds an example of when this rule has been 
> enforced, that would be interesting!
>
> Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm running late for my spark-gap sked with 
> a guy from Guam. We agreed to meet on 20, 30 and 40 meters at the same 
> time. Yeah, I know what the rule says, but I think I've concocted a 
> plausible loophole, and I really hate change...
>
> 73,
> Paul, AE4KR
>
>
>   - Original Message -   From: Larry Wagoner   To: 
> Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com   Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:43 AM
>   Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
>
>
>
>
>   Ask yourself this *ONE* question.
>   Is /R the way Russian stations identify themselves?
>   No? Then it is NOT an ASSIGNED identifier, nor is it an attempt to 
> confuse or hide identity.
>   .

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Chuck Kelsey]

I know a radio shop that does installs like that.  It's been in business for 
over 30 years.

Chuck
WB2EDV


- Original Message - 
From: "Nate Duehr" 
To: 
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:50 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality


> Nightmare "f-ing Hams!" story from this weekend:
>
> I went to a site this weekend, and the "new" Amateur repeater in the new
> building the hams are moving into had 200' of 1/2 Andrews hardline on it
> that I don't even know how it was operating... it looked like someone
> had taken a ballpeen hammer to it at 5' lengths all the way across the
> ice bridge and up the tower.  The hardline run was done INSIDE a tower
> leg instead of properly up the outside cable tray/unistrut with no
> hangers, and no grounding kits on the run of 1/2" anywhere.
>
>SNIP< 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Paul Plack]

This is one of those willful fabrications of gray areas that clutter rule 
discussions. This is why nobody discusses "remote bases" in polite company 
anymore.

With all due respect, Larry, your "ONE QUESTION" is a test unrelated to what 
the rule says. The rule itself says it applies to the additional self-assigned 
identifier separated by the "/", so the question is the conflict posed by "R," 
not "/R." If the "/" was included in the conflict test, there would be no 
reason for the rule, since no country is allocated "/" or other 
non-alphanumerics as part of its national call letter pool.

Nothing in the rule limits "conflict" to the amateur service. If another 
country has the authorization under international treaty to give broadcasters, 
ships at sea, or long-range baby monitors a callsign beginning with (or 
consisting of) "R," we can't legally use it following a "/". Sure, it's a 
one-size-fits-all rule, but what's new? 

Mike, thanks for pointing this out.

Good amateur practice would suggest the shortest legal repeater ID regardless, 
to reduce the time you're occupying the spectrum. If the "/R" is not required, 
why would anyone use it? To distinguish the repeater from all the other Morse 
chatter you hear on 2m FM? Do you hold the contract to supply the 1N34 diodes 
used in Hamtronics matrix boards? Then, why?

(BTW, that's a rhetorical question. My last repeater's polite ID signed /R, 
even though I knew it wasn't required. If I'm being honest, after all the 
hassle of getting a pair, negotiating a site and building the thing, it brought 
me great pleasure to hear my callsign followed by Morse for "repeater." If 
there's any other reason for hanging onto "/R" I'd love to hear it.)

If you're really willing to fight to give up the "R," what about other 
separators? If you leave a between-word space before the "R," or even before a 
"/R," have you made it part of your callsign? Lots of repeater IDs include a 
city, PL frequency, or other information in their IDs, separated by a space 
from the callsign itself. We may have something here!

All that said, Larry, I don't think you're in danger of an imminent enforcement 
action. The FCC doesn't have time to chase violations that draw no complaints. 
In fact, in the current political environment, if the Russians made a fuss, the 
feds would probably enjoy it.

If the FCC starts cracking down on 10-codes used on 2m, maybe worry then.

Maybe, since they're all unassigned, we could use one of the non-alphanumeric 
Morse characters to mean "repeater."

". - . . ." might be appropriate on machines inhabited by users who make you 
wait forever to join the morning commute roundtable.

". . - - . ." might be appropriate for repeaters which are never used, but sit 
there taking up a pair.

" - - - . . . " if the repeater licensee is a real butt-head, etc.

RIP, Horse. If anyone finds an example of when this rule has been enforced, 
that would be interesting!

Now, if you'll excuse me, I'm running late for my spark-gap sked with a guy 
from Guam. We agreed to meet on 20, 30 and 40 meters at the same time. Yeah, I 
know what the rule says, but I think I've concocted a plausible loophole, and I 
really hate change...

73,
Paul, AE4KR


  - Original Message - 
  From: Larry Wagoner 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:43 AM
  Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project




  Ask yourself this *ONE* question.
  Is /R the way Russian stations identify themselves?
  No? Then it is NOT an ASSIGNED identifier, nor is it an attempt to confuse or 
hide identity. 

  . 

  

[Repeater-Builder] Ham installation quality/non-quality

[Nate Duehr]

Nightmare "f-ing Hams!" story from this weekend:

I went to a site this weekend, and the "new" Amateur repeater in the new
building the hams are moving into had 200' of 1/2 Andrews hardline on it
that I don't even know how it was operating... it looked like someone
had taken a ballpeen hammer to it at 5' lengths all the way across the
ice bridge and up the tower.  The hardline run was done INSIDE a tower
leg instead of properly up the outside cable tray/unistrut with no
hangers, and no grounding kits on the run of 1/2" anywhere.  

There was a ham grade Comet triplexer bolted to the back of an open
rack, with two ports terminated, and one open, and three mobiles and a
mobile duplexer for the "repeater" sitting on a shelf, everything
connected with RG-58, plugged into the triplexer so the link radio could
be connected to the same feedline/antenna, and then 9913 for the jumper
from the diplexer to the polyphaser panel (amazingly, they used a
polyphaser!)... then a dual-band ham-grade antenna (also looked like a
Comet - we didn't send the tower climbers up there) at the very tippy
top of the tower that was already looking like it was loose in the sites
regular 50+ MPH winds.  The power supply looked like maybe it was a
Micor supply, but more likely was homebrew to run someone's gear at
home, years ago.  The whole repeater cabinet was plugged into the tool
power outlet on the wall, and not to the overhead 15A twist locks at the
site that are supposed to be equipment power.  No grounding cable was
attached to the cabinet or to the overhead halo system.

Meanwhile the two groups that went up were installing brand new 7/8"
hardline and connectors on the new tower, putting that hardline into the
cable trays, new polyphasers, RG-400 or better jumpers from the panel to
their enclosed cabinets, new Sinclair antennas, grounding kits on all
hardline, etc.  We also ripped down all the abandoned 7/8" and "chunks"
in the hangars, took all the clipped and abandoned wire ties on the
tower and ice bridge off and threw them away, removed "extra" hangars
and stored them in the building, removed three runs of #8 bare copper
wire strung down the ice bridge as a "ground" from the tower to the
building, which would just be an intermod/noise-maker, reattached the
tower ground the both the ice-bridge and the ground rod temporarily,
(were going to do a cadweld, but it was raining and no one had a grinder
to clean the surfaces properly), picked up all site trash, etc.

There are GOOD ham radio tenants, and bad ones... that's for sure.  If
it were up to me, I'd have made ONE phone call to this guy saying his
repeater was no longer welcome at the site, disconnected it, changed the
door code, and set that "mobiles in a cabinet" hunk of junk out in rain
under a tarp for later pickup, along with stripping his virtually
destroyed 1/2" hardline and noisemaker antenna from the tower while we
had the crew up there.  RG-58 for duplexer connections?!  WTF???

Politically, I have to be a little careful here... I actually know the
ham that put this junk up, and if he reads this, I hope he's not too
offended -- but it's a nightmare waiting to happen for the rest of us on
the site.  It's so far from "commercial grade" it just shouldn't be up
there.  A backyard is a nice place for a "repeater" like that.

The above CRAP jobs are often why hams aren't welcome at commercial
sites.  I hate it when hams do this.  Had to vent.  There were some
"newbies" along on the trip, and I think they got the point when I
stated, "If you ever install anything that looks this HamSexy at a
commercial radio site, and don't keep the kiddie-show to your back-yard
repeater, I'm personally coming to your house to kick your ass."

Nate WY0X
--
  Nate Duehr
  n...@natetech.com

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Redd Legg]

I have a resolution to this issue.  I am applying for a club callsign to use on 
the repeater.  There are several of us that will use it and we just have to go 
thru the gyrations of setting up a formal club structure.

Actually, the callsign will be used on one fixed and one portable linked 
repeater. I'll use an identifier on the mobile unit when it's in use.

Thanks for the assistance. 
 73, Dean KJ4LII 





From: "mwbese...@cox.net" 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, May 4, 2009 8:54:15 AM
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project





 

"§97.119 Station identification. 

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator 
must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable 
word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be 
included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No 
self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the 
FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country."

/R is a self-assigned indicator and 'R' is assigned by ITU to Russia.

Mike
WM4B

P.S.  There are a LOT of repeaters out there still signing /R.
 




On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:52 AM , Mike Pugh wrote:

 

Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: 
> 
> 
> Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer. 
> 
> 
> 
This is interesting, can you show us where in the rules this is? 





  

[Repeater-Builder] Wanted: GE 19B226748G1 BANDPASS BOARD

[w4sef]

Hi all,
I am in need of a 19D423249G1 board. I found out this is needed to make the PLL 
exciter work on the lower end of the two meter band in the 145 range. This is 
the Band-Pass board that plugs in the the GE Master II exciter.
I do NOT want the G2 board. My mistake.
73s
Steve W4SEF

[Repeater-Builder] Repeater related items for sale

[kk2ed]

I have a few repeater related items FS:

ARR (Advanced Receiver Research) SP220VDG 220MHz GaAs Fet switchable
preamp. In like new condition with paperwork. One minor scratch on the
rear, otherwise appears new. Mounting screw holes and pwr connections
look like they were never used. Tested on my tracking generator, and
working to specs. $85 shipped USPS.

Computer Automation Technology (CAT) CAT-200B repeater controller. In as-new 
condition. Includes manual and connectors. I bought this new for a repeater 
project, and wound up using another controller instead.
$160 shipped USPS, $165 shipped ground.

Arcom RC-210 repeater controllers, in rack mount case, and newer style audio 
delay board. Brand new, never used. Not a scratch on them. Includes RCP 
programming software. I bought a bunch of these for a major project, and have a 
few left. There are actually better than as-new, as I added the 4-40 threaded 
hardware to the DB9s (which Arcom doesn't supply), and the DTMF LEDs were 
replaced with 3 amber LEDS instead of the red, green, and yellow ones like 
those used for the COS, PL, and PTT inicators. The amber LEDs are the exact 
same manufacturer and series as the green, red, and yellow ones, sourced from 
Arcom's supplier.  $415 shipped ground.

MSR2000 VHF 100w repeater. C73GSB station, currently on 150Mhz range. Will tune 
to ham band with no trouble. $300 as is, or $450 turn key on your frequency and 
PL, wired for a repeater controller of your choice. Or I and work a package 
deal with one of the above controllers. These stations make excellent 
repeaters, better than anything you can buy new. I have sold a number of these 
turn-key to hams, and can provide references.  Shipping extra.

Motorola Micor 375W repeater. Currently on 147.3xx. Has Spectra-Tac receiver 
chassis, and non-unified exciter chassis (12w intermediate PA driving the big 
8560 tube PA).  Tubes are making full power. $500, pick-up only in central NJ.  
Will also include a complete spare station, minus tubes, for free if you can 
fit it in your truck.

Scom 5K repeater controller. Version 2.0, and Scom DADM audio delay board, in 
factory LED rack mount case. In excellent condition, with original manual 
(looks untouched). No mods, as original. $200 shipped with DADM. $150 shipped 
without DADM module.

NHRC DAD digital audio delay module. As new condition. $70 shipped.

Bird CC-1 meter leather carrying cases for model 43 or 4304A. These are the 
original Bird cases which are no longer manufactured. In good condition. A few 
overall scuffs from use, but otherwise in fine shape. $60 each shipped. 

Bird 43 wattmeters. Older style with leather strap handle and metal name/sn 
plate on top. Cases have normal dings or scratches from years of use, but not 
abused. Meter movements in perfect shape. N female QC connectors. $160 each 
shipped.

Bird 43 wattmeter. Newer stle plastic strap handle and sticker-type model and 
sn lable. In excellent conditon (one or two small marks on case. N female QC 
connectors. $235 shipped.  

All items fully tested and guaranteed as stated. 

Eric
KE2D
609-713-3742

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Converting a TKR-750/850 for Amateur Usage

[NORM KNAPP]

I have never had a problem getting either into the ham bands.

- Original Message -
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Mon May 04 12:16:27 2009
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Converting a TKR-750/850 for Amateur Usage



Thanks all for your inputs! Quick question: the programming software will go 
down to the amateur band no problem? It won't lock you out?

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
 , Ken Arck  wrote:
>
> At 01:40 PM 4/16/2009, ptt_pupil wrote:
> 
> 
> >Can anyone tell me how you can convert a TKR-750/850 U.S. model to 
> >be used for amateur radio frequency? I see that people have. There 
> >is a European model that includes amatuer bands, but can't get it 
> >here in the U.S. Thanks!
> 
> <---No conversion necessary. They tune down no problems at all.
> 
> Ken
> --
> President and CTO - Arcom Communications
> Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
> http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/  
> Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
> we offer complete repeater packages!
> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
> http://www.irlp.net  
> "We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
>

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Converting a TKR-750/850 for Amateur Usage

[ptt_pupil]

Thanks all for your inputs! Quick question: the programming software will go 
down to the amateur band no problem? It won't lock you out?

--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Ken Arck  wrote:
>
> At 01:40 PM 4/16/2009, ptt_pupil wrote:
> 
> 
> >Can anyone tell me how you can convert a TKR-750/850 U.S. model to 
> >be used for amateur radio frequency? I see that people have. There 
> >is a European model that includes amatuer bands, but can't get it 
> >here in the U.S. Thanks!
> 
> <---No conversion necessary. They tune down no problems at all.
> 
> Ken
> --
> President and CTO - Arcom Communications
> Makers of repeater controllers and accessories.
> http://www.arcomcontrollers.com/
> Authorized Dealers for Kenwood and Telewave and
> we offer complete repeater packages!
> AH6LE/R - IRLP Node 3000
> http://www.irlp.net
> "We don't just make 'em. We use 'em!"
>

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Piston Cap Source (a good deal)

[Bob M.]

I've got a few myself and they ARE really that good. Easy to adjust, very 
stable, solid as a rock. I'm using one as the "gimmick" capacitor in a Heliax 
duplexer. Other than putting my hand near it, nothing seems to make it change 
capacitance.

The only odd thing about them is their mounting style.  They just solder into 
holes in the circuit board. There's no mechanical (threaded-hole) mounting, but 
you could solder one end to a metal plate if required.

Bob M.
==
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, skipp025  wrote:

> From: skipp025 
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Piston Cap Source (a good deal)
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 11:18 AM
> Piston Cap Source (a good deal) 
> 
> Now that I've "got mine"... I'll happily share a source of
> 
> low cost Piston Capacitors with the group. Hamtronics has 
> a clearance page at: 
> 
> http://www.hamtronics.com/sale.htm 
> 
> A49 Piston Trimmer Capacitor.
> 1-11 pF trimmer suitable for adjusting oscillator freq or 
> general vhf/uhf tuned circuits.   Very
> stable ceramic material. 
>   .5/$2 (or 50$10)
> 
> These are great caps for the price, should you want to 
> repair or build something new. The price is right... 
> 
> cheers, 
> skipp 


  

[Repeater-Builder] Piston Cap Source (a good deal)

[skipp025]

Piston Cap Source (a good deal) 

Now that I've "got mine"... I'll happily share a source of 
low cost Piston Capacitors with the group. Hamtronics has 
a clearance page at: 

http://www.hamtronics.com/sale.htm 

A49 Piston Trimmer Capacitor.
1-11 pF trimmer suitable for adjusting oscillator freq or 
general vhf/uhf tuned circuits.   Very stable ceramic material. 
  .5/$2 (or 50$10)

These are great caps for the price, should you want to 
repair or build something new. The price is right... 

cheers, 
skipp 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[no6b]

At 5/4/2009 05:54, you wrote:


>
>
>"§97.119 Station identification.
>
>(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each 
>indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by 
>any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is 
>self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and 
>after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any 
>other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to 
>another country."
>
>/R is a self-assigned indicator and 'R' is assigned by ITU to Russia.

Not sure if a simple "R" would be a sufficient prefix.  When I operate in 
Canada I sign "NO6B/VE3" (in Ontario), not "NO6B/VE" even though Canada has 
all of the VE prefixes IIRC.  Americans in Baja ID "/XE2", not "/XE".

At any rate, I doubt anyone thinks that my repeater that IDs with "/R" is 
located in Russia.  Personally I wish the FCC never did away with that 
rule, as IMO it helps to ID the type of service that transmitter is in: 
repeater, auxiliary (/A), or other (no indicator).  So I continue to 
encourage its use on all repeaters & auxiliary stations except in cases 
when a special club callsign has been obtained specifically for the 
repeater/aux. station, i.e. KE6TZF: Sunset Ridge Repeater Group, WR6JPL: 
JPL ARC.

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Larry Wagoner]

At 09:37 AM 5/4/2009, you wrote:

Ask yourself these questions:


Ask yourself this *ONE* question.
Is /R the way Russian stations identify themselves?
No? Then it is NOT an ASSIGNED identifier, nor is it an attempt to 
confuse or hide identity.


It is, therefore, PERFECTLY LEGAL and APROPRIATE.
PERIOD.



Larry Wagoner - N5WLW
VP - PRCARC
PIC - MS SECT ARRL 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[mwbesemer]

Ask yourself these questions:

Is the indicator Self-Assigned?  (Well, if the FCC didn't give it to 
you, it MUST be Self-Assigned.)


Is the prefix assigned to another country?

If you answer yes to both these questions, the it IS specifically stated 
in the rules.


We wouldn't be having this discussion if "R" were assigned to a country 
which neighbors the US.  The use of /R is being rationalized as okay 
because Russia is so distant that the use of /R couldn't be confused. 
And, while that may be a semi-valid argument (anybody ever work Russia 
on 10 meters?), it's still not right.


The horse is dead.  Long live the horse.

73,

Mike
WM4B

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 10:17 AM , Bob M. wrote:



I would agree that "R" as a suffix could be used if an amateur was 
operating in that country, much the same way a Russian ham would append 
something like /W1 if he/she was operating in the United States 1st 
callsign district. Do Russian callsigns also have a numerical district, 
like they do in the US? If so, wouldn't you need /R1 if you were 
operating there? If yes, that would make plain old /R legitimate for 
repeaters.


However, it's probably not going to cause any confusion if a US amateur 
repeater puts /R on the station ID. I'm sure there are plenty of 
repeaters that have had issues with the FCC and if they had a problem 
with all of us using /R they would have put it specifically in the rules 
or given us a suffix they WANT us to use, if anything. Maybe we should 
all change to /RPT, or is that some other country's prefix too?


Bob M.
==
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, mwbese...@cox. net  < 
mwbese...@cox. net  > wrote:


From: mwbese...@cox. net  < mwbese...@cox. 
net  >

Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 


Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 8:54 AM

"§97.119 Station identification.

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each 
indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or 
by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is 
self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and 
after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any 
other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned 
to another country."


/R is a self-assigned indicator and 'R' is assigned by ITU to Russia.

Mike
WM4B

P.S.  There are a LOT of repeaters out there still signing /R.

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:52 AM , Mike Pugh wrote:

Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:



Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.



This is interesting, can you show us where in the rules this is?

 

[Repeater-Builder] /R was: 440 Repeater Project

[Doug Rehman]

The Russian Federation is a member of CEPT (European Conference of Postal and 
Telecommunications Administrations) which has reciprocal operating authority 
with the US. The CEPT document outlining operating 
(http://www.erodocdb.dk/docs/doc98/official/pdf/TR6101.PDF) shows that the call 
sign prefixes to be used when visiting Russia are:

 

Russian Federation: R

Moscow & Other Regions: R3A

St. Petersburg: R1A

 

The document also states:

 

“When transmitting in the visited country the licence holder must use his 
national call sign preceded by the call sign prefix of the visited country as 
indicated in Appendices II and IV. The call sign prefix and the national call 
sign must be separated by the character “/” (telegraphy) or the word “stroke” 
(telephony).”

 

This manner of identification (location/home call sign)is also specified in the 
FCC’s rules:

 

97.119(g) When the station is transmitting under the authority of §97.107 of 
this part, an indicator consisting of the appropriate letter-numeral 
designating the station location must be included before the call sign that was 
issued to the station by the country granting the license. For an amateur 
service license granted by the Government of Canada, however, the indicator 
must be included after the call sign. At least once during each 
intercommunication, the identification announcement must include the 
geographical location as nearly as possible by city and state, commonwealth or 
possession

 

(Note: 97.107 = Reciprocal operating authority.)

 

So the net result of this is that if I went to Russia, I would ID as R/K4AC, 
R3A/K4AC, OR R1A/K4AC- NOT as K4AC/R.

 

Likewise, the only possible suffixes that would conflict with the FCC rules are:

 

KT For a control operator who has requested a license modification from Novice 
to Technician Class

 

AG For a control operator who has requested a license modification from Novice, 
Technician or Technician Plus Class to General Class

 

AE For a control operator who has requested a license modification from Novice, 
Technician, Technician Plus, General, or Advanced Class operator to Amateur 
Extra Class

 

KP or KH and a number For a Canadian amateur in the US

 

W and a number For a Canadian amateur in the US

 

Since there are no conflicts with an “R” in the suffix, it would be perfectly 
legal to identify a repeater in the US as K4AC/R.

 

On a side note, it is interesting how many Canadians don’t realize that they 
should be identifying with the W# after their call instead of before it. 

 

Doug

K4AC

 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question

[mwbesemer]

 I think the issue was that it's RG-58.

Mike
WM4B

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 10:15 AM , Al Wolfe wrote:



The amp is a UHF PA off a mobile rig, and I needed about 50 feet of 
RG58U to attenuate the signal from the repeater into the amp module.


Not good, probably better to bypass (not use) the 15 watt amplifier 
and drive the external amp direct from the exciter.


Not a thing wrong with using a length of coax as an attenuator if it's
done right. Have used this technique often when a little attenuation is
needed.

Al, K9SI

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Bob M.]

I would agree that "R" as a suffix could be used if an amateur was operating in 
that country, much the same way a Russian ham would append something like /W1 
if he/she was operating in the United States 1st callsign district. Do Russian 
callsigns also have a numerical district, like they do in the US? If so, 
wouldn't you need /R1 if you were operating there? If yes, that would make 
plain old /R legitimate for repeaters.

However, it's probably not going to cause any confusion if a US amateur 
repeater puts /R on the station ID. I'm sure there are plenty of repeaters that 
have had issues with the FCC and if they had a problem with all of us using /R 
they would have put it specifically in the rules or given us a suffix they WANT 
us to use, if anything. Maybe we should all change to /RPT, or is that some 
other country's prefix too?

Bob M.
==
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, mwbese...@cox.net  wrote:

From: mwbese...@cox.net 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 8:54 AM

"§97.119 Station identification. 

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each indicator 
must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or by any suitable 
word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is self-assigned, it must be 
included before, after, or both before and after, the call sign. No 
self-assigned indicator may conflict with any other indicator specified by the 
FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned to another country."

/R is a self-assigned indicator and 'R' is assigned by ITU to Russia.

Mike
WM4B

P.S.  There are a LOT of repeaters out there still signing /R.

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:52 AM , Mike Pugh wrote:

Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: 
> 
> 
> Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer. 
> 
> 
> 
This is interesting, can you show us where in the rules this is?


  

[Repeater-Builder] Re: desense question

[Al Wolfe]

>> The amp is a UHF PA off a mobile rig, and I needed about
>> 50 feet of RG58U to attenuate the signal from the repeater
>> into the amp module.
>
> Not good, probably better to bypass (not use) the 15 watt
> amplifier and drive the external amp direct from the exciter.

Not a thing wrong with using a length of coax as an attenuator if it's 
done right. Have used this technique often when a little attenuation is 
needed.

Al, K9SI 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[mwbesemer]

 Seems pretty black-and-white to me (unlike a lot of things in Part 
97).  Personally, I'm happy to do away with it.  It shortens the ID a 
bit and eliminates stating the obvious.  ID'ing with /R is kinda like 
like saying 'This is WM4B for ID' (as opposed to... ?).


I was not aware that some controllers hard-programmed the /R onto the 
ID.  I'd be curious to know specific examples of these controllers, just 
for my own edification.


73,

Mike
WM4B

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 9:11 AM , Mike Pugh wrote:



mwbese...@cox. net  wrote:

'R' is assigned by ITU to European and Asiatic Russia.
Mike WM4B

On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:28 AM , Bob M. wrote:


USC 47 part 97 (FCC amateur service) rule 97.119(c) quoted below:
"   (c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. 
Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark 
(/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an 
indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or 
both before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may 
conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with 
any prefix assigned to another country."
Seems to me that "/R" is allowed, unless the "R" is not an 
FCC-specified indicator.
I couldn't find a list of acceptable indicators in Part 97, which was 
surprising.
Bob M. == --- On Mon, 5/4/09, Mike Besemer (WM4B) < 
mwbese...@cox. net  > wrote:
From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) < mwbese...@cox. net 
 > Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 
Repeater Project To: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
 Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 
5:55 AM

Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.
Mike WM4B
From: Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
 [mailto: Repeater-Builder@ 
yahoogroups. com  ] On 
Behalf Of Paul Plack Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:20 AM To: 
Repeater-Builder@ yahoogroups. com 
 Subject: Re: 
[Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

Dean, you have one: KJ4LII/R.
Discreet repeater callsigns have been gone for decades. The 
repeater's callsign these days is typically the owner, another 
individual designated by the owner as the licensee, or in some cases 
a club callsign.
Controllers are often programmed to appends "/R" to the end of the 
callsign, but even that is not required any more.





I can see both sides of this, however, I think that I'll just keep on
using the /R till I get a ticket for it. I can't imagine that any FCC
official that hears my repeaters in Ky could imagine that the signal was
coming from Russia.. Mike

 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[John Transue]

But /R is a suffix, not a prefix. So isn’t allowed?

 

John

 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of mwbese...@cox.net
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 8:54 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

 






 

 

"§97.119 Station identification. 

 

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each
indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or
by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is
self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and
after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any
other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned
to another country."

 

/R is a self-assigned indicator and 'R' is assigned by ITU to Russia.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

P.S.  There are a LOT of repeaters out there still signing /R.

 







On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:52 AM , Mike Pugh wrote:

 

 

 

Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote: 

> 

> 

> Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer. 

> 

> 

> 

This is interesting, can you show us where in the rules this is? 





 
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Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Mike Pugh]

mwbese...@cox.net wrote:
> 'R' is assigned by ITU to European and Asiatic Russia.
>
> Mike
> WM4B
>
>
> On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:28 AM , Bob M. wrote:
>
>   
>> USC 47 part 97 (FCC amateur service) rule 97.119(c) quoted below:
>>
>> "   (c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. 
>> Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark 
>> (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an 
>> indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both 
>> before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may 
>> conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with 
>> any prefix assigned to another country."
>>
>> Seems to me that "/R" is allowed, unless the "R" is not an 
>> FCC-specified indicator.
>>
>> I couldn't find a list of acceptable indicators in Part 97, which was 
>> surprising.
>>
>> Bob M.
>> ==
>> --- On Mon, 5/4/09, Mike Besemer (WM4B)  wrote:
>>
>> From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
>> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 5:55 AM
>>
>> Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.
>>  
>> Mike
>> WM4B
>>
>> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
>> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack
>> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:20 AM
>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
>>
>> Dean, you have one: KJ4LII/R.
>>
>> Discreet repeater callsigns have been gone for decades. The repeater's 
>> callsign these days is typically the owner, another individual 
>> designated by the owner as the licensee, or in some cases a club 
>> callsign.
>>
>> Controllers are often programmed to appends "/R" to the end of the 
>> callsign, but even that is not required any more.
>> 
>
>
>   
I can see both sides of this, however, I think that I'll just keep on 
using the /R till I get a ticket for it. I can't imagine that any FCC 
official that hears my repeaters in Ky could imagine that the signal was 
coming from Russia.. Mike

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[mwbesemer]

"§97.119 Station identification.

(c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each 
indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or 
by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is 
self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and 
after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any 
other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned 
to another country."


/R is a self-assigned indicator and 'R' is assigned by ITU to Russia.

Mike
WM4B

P.S.  There are a LOT of repeaters out there still signing /R.



On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:52 AM , Mike Pugh wrote:



Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:



Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.



This is interesting, can you show us where in the rules this is?

Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Mike Pugh]

Mike Besemer (WM4B) wrote:
>
>
> Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.
>
>  
>
This is interesting, can you show us where in the rules this is?

[Repeater-Builder] Re: W1GAN and square duplexers aka homebrew duplexer

[Ed Bathgate]

I built a paint can 6 meter helical coil duplexer, and also built an 8
stub heliax 6 meter duplexer.
The mechanics don't seem all that complicated, but getting the rejection
and insertion loss you want can take a lot of messing with it.  
The heliax was difficult to find.  Traded a large tray of donuts to a
local electrical contractor for 6 pieces of 8 foot long scrap heliax.
I found a partial tray of 3-30 pf trimmer caps at a hamfest.  
The paint cans didn't hold up to temp changes at all.- Drift all over
the place like others said.  
I cut the heliax cable, drilled and installed BNC connectors, selected
stubs resonant at the higher frequency then used ceramic piston trimmers
to couple the coax to the stub, then a duplicate trimmer to tune stub
down to desired freq.

I have built a 1/4 wave heliax stub filter using same technique with a
1/4 wave phase line to a T connector to make a band pass filter for 2
meter APRS.
I suspect heliax will make a more stable and smaller duplexer then oil
cans.

Happy tinkering!   Ed N3SDO

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[mwbesemer]

'R' is assigned by ITU to European and Asiatic Russia.

Mike
WM4B


On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:28 AM , Bob M. wrote:

> USC 47 part 97 (FCC amateur service) rule 97.119(c) quoted below:
>
> "   (c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. 
> Each indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark 
> (/) or by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an 
> indicator is self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both 
> before and after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may 
> conflict with any other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with 
> any prefix assigned to another country."
>
> Seems to me that "/R" is allowed, unless the "R" is not an 
> FCC-specified indicator.
>
> I couldn't find a list of acceptable indicators in Part 97, which was 
> surprising.
>
> Bob M.
> ==
> --- On Mon, 5/4/09, Mike Besemer (WM4B)  wrote:
>
> From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
> Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 5:55 AM
>
> Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.
>  
> Mike
> WM4B
>
> From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
> [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack
> Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:20 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
>
> Dean, you have one: KJ4LII/R.
>
> Discreet repeater callsigns have been gone for decades. The repeater's 
> callsign these days is typically the owner, another individual 
> designated by the owner as the licensee, or in some cases a club 
> callsign.
>
> Controllers are often programmed to appends "/R" to the end of the 
> callsign, but even that is not required any more.
>
> 73,
>
> Paul, AE4KR
>
> - Original Message -
> From: redleg_8 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, May 
> 03, 2009 6:16 PM
> Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
>
> I have selected hardware, controller, duplexer, antenna, and location.
> SERA has provided me with available frequency pairs and a blank 
> application.
>
> What I CAN'T locate any information on is how to obtain a legal 
> callsign for a individually owned repeater.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Dean
> KJ4LII

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Bob M.]

USC 47 part 97 (FCC amateur service) rule 97.119(c) quoted below:

"   (c) One or more indicators may be included with the call sign. Each 
indicator must be separated from the call sign by the slant mark (/) or 
by any suitable word that denotes the slant mark. If an indicator is 
self-assigned, it must be included before, after, or both before and 
after, the call sign. No self-assigned indicator may conflict with any 
other indicator specified by the FCC Rules or with any prefix assigned 
to another country."

Seems to me that "/R" is allowed, unless the "R" is not an FCC-specified 
indicator.

I couldn't find a list of acceptable indicators in Part 97, which was 
surprising.

Bob M.
==
--- On Mon, 5/4/09, Mike Besemer (WM4B)  wrote:

From: Mike Besemer (WM4B) 
Subject: RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, May 4, 2009, 5:55 AM

Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.
 
Mike
WM4B

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:20 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

Dean, you have one: KJ4LII/R.

Discreet repeater callsigns have been gone for decades. The repeater's callsign 
these days is typically the owner, another individual designated by the owner 
as the licensee, or in some cases a club callsign.

Controllers are often programmed to appends "/R" to the end of the callsign, 
but even that is not required any more.

73,

Paul, AE4KR

- Original Message - 

From: redleg_8 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:16 PM
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

I have selected hardware, controller, duplexer, antenna, and location. 

SERA has provided me with available frequency pairs and a blank application.

What I CAN'T locate any information on is how to obtain a legal callsign for a 
individually owned repeater.

Thanks,

Dean
KJ4LII


  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

[Mike Besemer (WM4B)]

Actually, the /R is not ALLOWED by FCC rules any longer.

 

Mike

WM4B

 

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Paul Plack
Sent: Monday, May 04, 2009 2:20 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

 






Dean, you have one: KJ4LII/R.

 

Discreet repeater callsigns have been gone for decades. The repeater's
callsign these days is typically the owner, another individual designated by
the owner as the licensee, or in some cases a club callsign.

 

Controllers are often programmed to appends "/R" to the end of the callsign,
but even that is not required any more.

 

73,

Paul, AE4KR

 

- Original Message - 

From: redleg_8   

To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 

Sent: Sunday, May 03, 2009 6:16 PM

Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 440 Repeater Project

 

I have selected hardware, controller, duplexer, antenna, and location. 

SERA has provided me with available frequency pairs and a blank application.

What I CAN'T locate any information on is how to obtain a legal callsign for
a individually owned repeater.

Thanks,

Dean
KJ4LII



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