Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Derek J. Lassen]

Towards reducing power consumption:
  Use the sleep mode on the processor.
  Set RF output power as a function of RSSI.
Include multi-chemistry battery management.
Include solar panel management.
Include charge termination output; would drive a relay which would 
shut down a small generator which had been left running.


73 de KN6TD
(s) Derek

At 05:09 8/4/2009 +, you wrote:



I am in the design stages for a portable VHF (2 meter ham) repeater, 
and thought I would solicit the views of the group for desired 
features. In broad strokes, we plan on a computer programmable unit, 
capable of one or two field selectable operation modes. CTCSS only, 
no COS or DTS. This is primarily to support our SAR users (I 
manufacture the Micro-Trak line of APRS tracking systems sold by 
Byonics-www.byonics.com) We will have DTMF remote control. The goal 
is a bare-bones repeater, with no provision for a duplexer, so wide 
channel separation and physically separate antennas will be a must. 
Battery power will be the norm, and I am thinking of a system with 
no more than 8 Watts output. What features are a "must-have" in this 
kind of a machine? What DTMF remote functions do we need as a 
minimum, and are there any features that we should have that other 
controllers don't offer? ( We will be writing our own code for the 
controller, an Atmega microprocessor) Has anyone ever attempted a 
servo controlled duplexer? Did it work?


73,

Allen
VHS
AF60F

RE: [Repeater-Builder] RG-9/U Coaxial Cable (WAS: Possible desense issue, any thoughts)

[Eric Lemmon]

If you have difficulty opening the two files I attached, they are also
posted in the Files section of the Repeater-Builder Group site, along with
several other coaxial cable spec sheets.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY
 

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Eric Lemmon
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 12:56 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] RG-9/U Coaxial Cable (WAS: Possible desense
issue, any thoughts) [2 Attachments]

  
[Attachment(s) from Eric Lemmon included below] 



RG-9 coax is a really old design, circa WW2.  I looked at the 1946 issue of
JAN-C-17A and found the spec sheets for both RG-9/U and RG-9A/U, which are
different. The RG-9/U has one silver-plated shield and one bare copper
shield, while the RG-9A/U has two silver-plated shields. I noticed that the
shield braids are different as well, with disparate numbers of ends and
picks per inch. Since they're small in size, I have attached the two spec
sheets as PDF files.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY

-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
[mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 ] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:44 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible desense issue, any thoughts

Very interesting. 
I looked up the specs for Belden 8242 RG-9/U. I have a 6 foot piece with N
type males on each end and I use it as a test jumper... According to Belden,
the center conductor and the inside shield are silver plated copper. However
the outer shield is bare copper. What gives??? Why would they make such a
product? What spec would call for the shields to be like that and why? 
Anyone? 
73 de N5NPO 
Norman Knapp 

P. S. I stand corrected. I would not recomend RG-9/U. :However, RG-223/U
would work Right? 

- Original Message - 
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 

mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
 > 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
 

mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> 
 > 
Sent: Mon Aug 03 21:38:22 2009 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible desense issue, any thoughts 

At 8/3/2009 14:42, you wrote: 
>Or RG-9/U. 
> 
>Norm N5NPO 

I think most RG-9/U has copper braid, & is unsuitable for use in any 
duplexed portion of a repeater system (from the duplexer T to the 
antenna). Should be OK for RX & TX interconnects though. 

Bob NO6B

[Repeater-Builder] Re: Portable repeater - Solar Powered

[skipp025]

Hopefully and solar powered equipment you have will 
operate through a low voltage disconnect. 

http://www.newmartelecom.com/LVD-Wall-Mount/LVD-Wall-Mount.html 

cheers, 
s. 

>
> We use a couple of M-10 radios turned down to 10W and a simple controller 
> along with the duplexer with a solar panel and deep cycle battery for our 
> portable repeater and it seems to work very well. Just make sure that you 
> have a controller to charge the battery properly and that the solar cell can 
> keep it charged on a full duty cycle for the repeater. GM300 or GR300 can be 
> used as long as your not driving them at full power or you will burn up the 
> finals.
> Peter Summerhawk
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis 
> Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:58 AM
> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater
> 
>  
> Use a solar panel to keep a charge on the battery. if the repeater is only 5
>  watts then a small solar panel will do the trick easily.
> 
>  you can get a 120 watt panel or an array of smaller panels for portability
>  which will charge the battery plus run the repeater all day and allow the
>  system to operate through the night on battery power.
> 
>  Thanks,
> 
>  Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis
> 
>  I Recycle Computers
> 
>  "Saving UnWanted PC's From The Landfill One Computer At A Time :)"
> 
>  Note: I do Pickups the 1st week of the month.
> 
>  Owner: FreeStuffWarrenNJ
>  Moderator: Hunterdonfree
> 
> 
> 
> [The entire original message is not included]
>

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Eric Lemmon]

Allen,

Most "portable" repeaters for 2m are more like footlockers, often weighing
more than 60 pounds- even without batteries.  Such repeaters usually contain
a full-size duplexer, in order to operate at a 600 kHz split.  It is not
practical to use two antennas at a 600 kHz split, because you'd need about
150 feet of vertical spacing or nearly 1.5 miles of horizontal spacing to
achieve reasonable isolation- even with 8 watts of transmit power. 

Some coordinating bodies have already anticipated the need for low-power,
portable 2m repeaters for temporary use, and have set aside a wide-spaced
pair for that specific purpose.  In California, TASMA has allocated a 2m
pair that has a 2.655 MHz spacing:  147.585 MHz input and 144.930 MHz
output.  I have built a portable repeater to use that pair, with a Motorola
R1225 full-duplex radio and a Celwave 5085-1 compact duplexer.  Although the
duplexer is specified for 3 MHz separation, it works flawlessly at the 10
watts output of the (low-power) R1225.  I chose the R1225 because it has a
built-in controller with IDer, and it draws very little power in idle.  Best
of all, the entire repeater, including duplexer, fits into a Pelican-style
case that measures around one cubic foot.  The duplexer info is here:


I will write up a article about this project, once I have the time.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of vhsproducts
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 10:09 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

  

I am in the design stages for a portable VHF (2 meter ham) repeater, and
thought I would solicit the views of the group for desired features. In
broad strokes, we plan on a computer programmable unit, capable of one or
two field selectable operation modes. CTCSS only, no COS or DTS. This is
primarily to support our SAR users (I manufacture the Micro-Trak line of
APRS tracking systems sold by Byonics-www.byonics.com) We will have DTMF
remote control. The goal is a bare-bones repeater, with no provision for a
duplexer, so wide channel separation and physically separate antennas will
be a must. Battery power will be the norm, and I am thinking of a system
with no more than 8 Watts output. What features are a "must-have" in this
kind of a machine? What DTMF remote functions do we need as a minimum, and
are there any features that we should have that other controllers don't
offer? ( We will be writing our own code for the controller, an Atmega
microprocessor) Has anyone ever attempted a servo controlled duplexer? Did
it work?

73,

Allen
VHS
AF60F

[Repeater-Builder] 220 MHZ cavities for trade

[Brian Cochran]

My 220 repeater was a bust.
I have 6 cans perfect for a 220 repeater sorry no cables as they came
out of a system with 12! 6 went on the air with no problem at one site
the other fell thru. 
 
Since then my 440 repeater was stolen. I would like to trade theese cans
for anything to help get my 440 site backup duplexers, controllers,
repeater high power not needed.
 
make a offer.
 
if possible I would perfer to do a drive to you or me then ship.am
willing to meet anyone within a days drive from Washington DC.
 
Would also be interested in 6m repeater gear.
 
Brian
WC4J
w...@wc4j.com
703-965-6011

Re: [Repeater-Builder] WTB: Motorola Mototrbo Mobile

[john gleaton]

I saw this on closeout the other day :

http://www.s287847904.e-shop.info/shop/article_5504/Motorola-UHF-XPR4550(CS).html?shop_param=cid%3D14%26aid%3D5504%26

On Mon, Aug 3, 2009 at 8:28 PM, Randy  wrote:

> I'm looking for used or new at the right price.  Doesn't need to be high
> power, have GPS or display.
>
> XPR4300 would be great.  Must be in the 403-470 MHz range.
>
>
> 
>
>
>
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>
>


-- 
Major John Gleaton
Escambia County Sheriff's Office
jglea...@co.escambia.al.us
251-809-2906

[Repeater-Builder] RG-9/U Coaxial Cable (WAS: Possible desnse issue, any thoughts) [2 Attachments]

[Eric Lemmon]

RG-9 coax is a really old design, circa WW2  I looked at the 1946 issue of
JAN-C-17A and found the spec sheets for both RG-9/U and RG-9A/U, which are
different.  The RG-9/U has one silver-plated shield and one bare copper
shield, while the RG-9A/U has two silver-plated shields.  I noticed that the
shield braids are different as well, with disparate numbers of ends and
picks per inch.  Since they're small in size, I have attached the two spec
sheets as PDF files.

73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY


-Original Message-
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of NORM KNAPP
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 9:44 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible desense issue, any thoughts

  

Very interesting. 
I looked up the specs for Belden 8242 RG-9/U. I have a 6 foot piece with N
type males on each end and I use it as a test jumper... According to Belden,
the center conductor and the inside shield are silver plated copper. However
the outer shield is bare copper. What gives??? Why would they make such a
product? What spec would call for the shields to be like that and why? 
Anyone? 
73 de N5NPO 
Norman Knapp 

P. S. I stand corrected. I would not recomend RG-9/U. :However, RG-223/U
would work Right? 

- Original Message - 
From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > 
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com

mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com> > 
Sent: Mon Aug 03 21:38:22 2009 
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Possible desense issue, any thoughts 



At 8/3/2009 14:42, you wrote: 
>Or RG-9/U. 
> 
>Norm N5NPO 

I think most RG-9/U has copper braid, & is unsuitable for use in any 
duplexed portion of a repeater system (from the duplexer T to the 
antenna). Should be OK for RX & TX interconnects though. 

Bob NO6B

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Paul Plack]

Allen,

I'll echo the comments of those who've said 2m is not the best choice for a 
portable repeater, due to the required close frequency spacing. A 440 MHz 
repeater solves a number of problems regarding duplex operation.

I built a solar-powered repeater a few years ago, and had to operate it on a 
very limited power budget. After looking at options, I used a Repco 2-watt UHF 
transmitter sourced from an RFID application, and a companion receiver. The 
transmitter drew only 650 mA at 1.8 watts output, and the receiver only another 
22 mA in squelched standby. The controller was the most inefficient part of the 
package, drawing 100 mA continuous. Still, I had four days' reserve battery 
power even if the solar panel failed, assuming 100% duty cycle, using a 
group-27-sized deep-cycle marine battery, which was rated at 105 amp hours.

If I had your needs, I'd do something similar, but using a much more 
power-efficient controller. This would allow using a much smaller battery. SAR 
outings often don't last more than a few days, so solar charging might not even 
be necessary, especially if you could occasionally visit the repeater site with 
a vehicle to recharge the battery. Also look into the options for small-scale 
wind turbines. There are mast-mount generators available in the recreational 
vehicle market that would easily hold up a small repeater in heavy use. They 
look a little pricey, and not terribly durable, but for this application they'd 
be great.

When looking for a transmitter, do your homework to find one which is efficient 
at the power level you want. Most transmitters become very inefficient when run 
below their rated max output. Choose one that's running full-bore at the power 
level you need - it will use less current and dump less heat than a larger 
transmitter dialed back. Some small crystal-controlled receivers have very low 
current drain compared to their synthesized equivalents.

Regarding control, there may be locations at which CTCSS access will save more 
battery current than the decoder draws. Especially if you're in the midst of a 
bunch of public service agencies running enough power to overload your 
receiver's front end, you're transmitter may stay up way more than it should.

If you really must use 2m, my first choice would be to modify a pair of 
dual-band, full-duplex-capable handhelds to make a split-site repeater using a 
UHF link frequency. The receive site wouldn't take much in the way of 
mods...find a way to add a simple controller, and run low power with CTCSS or 
DCS on the UHF transmit. The other end would need some sort of external 
heatsink, and might need building a new enclosure for the radio, but you could 
have 2-5 watts continuous if you needed it. Separate the sites by a half-mile 
or more, and you're there.

But UHF would be much cleaner, and faster and easier to set up.

73,
Paul, AE4KR


  - Original Message - 
  From: vhsproducts 
  To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com 
  Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 11:09 PM
  Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater


I am in the design stages for a portable VHF (2 meter ham) repeater, and 
thought I would solicit the views of the group for desired features. In broad 
strokes, we plan on a computer programmable unit, capable of one or two field 
selectable operation modes. CTCSS only, no COS or DTS. This is primarily to 
support our SAR users (I manufacture the Micro-Trak line of APRS tracking 
systems sold by Byonics-www.byonics.com) We will have DTMF remote control. The 
goal is a bare-bones repeater, with no provision for a duplexer, so wide 
channel separation and physically separate antennas will be a must. Battery 
power will be the norm, and I am thinking of a system with no more than 8 Watts 
output. What features are a "must-have" in this kind of a machine? What DTMF 
remote functions do we need as a minimum, and are there any features that we 
should have that other controllers don't offer? ( We will be writing our own 
code for the controller, an Atmega microprocessor) Has anyone ever attempted a 
servo controlled duplexer? Did it work?

  73,

  Allen
  VHS
  AF60F



  

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Peter Dakota Summerhawk]

We use a couple of M-10 radios turned down to 10W and a simple controller along 
with the duplexer with a solar panel and deep cycle battery for our portable 
repeater and it seems to work very well. Just make sure that you have a 
controller to charge the battery properly and that the solar cell can keep it 
charged on a full duty cycle for the repeater. GM300 or GR300 can be used as 
long as your not driving them at full power or you will burn up the finals.
Peter Summerhawk

-Original Message-
From: Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis 
Sent: Tuesday, August 04, 2009 5:58 AM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

 
Use a solar panel to keep a charge on the battery. if the repeater is only 5
 watts then a small solar panel will do the trick easily.

 you can get a 120 watt panel or an array of smaller panels for portability
 which will charge the battery plus run the repeater all day and allow the
 system to operate through the night on battery power.

 Thanks,

 Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis

 I Recycle Computers

 "Saving UnWanted PC's From The Landfill One Computer At A Time :)"

 Note: I do Pickups the 1st week of the month.

 Owner: FreeStuffWarrenNJ
 Moderator: Hunterdonfree



[The entire original message is not included]

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Rick Szajkowski]

if you go with 2 ant  you will have a lot of coax to lug around !!

if you could go to UHF the duplexer are smaller even 220 mhz !

unless you have a non Ham freq than you could run a mobile duplexer on
VHF and have 2 of them and swap jumper cables in the box

Good luck !

Rick



On Tue, Aug 4, 2009 at 7:58 AM, Rev. Robert P.
Chrysafis wrote:
>
>
> Use a solar panel to keep a charge on the battery. if the repeater is only 5
> watts then a small solar panel will do the trick easily.
>
> you can get a 120 watt panel or an array of smaller panels for portability
> which will charge the battery plus run the repeater all day and allow the
> system to operate through the night on battery power.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis
>
> I Recycle Computers
>
> "Saving UnWanted PC's From The Landfill One Computer At A Time :)"
>
> Note: I do Pickups the 1st week of the month.
>
> Owner: FreeStuffWarrenNJ
> Moderator: Hunterdonfree
>
> 

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis]

Use a solar panel to keep a charge on the battery. if the repeater is only 5 
watts then a small solar panel will do the trick easily.

you can get a 120 watt panel or an array of smaller panels for portability 
which will charge the battery plus run the repeater all day and allow the 
system to operate through the night on battery power.

Thanks,

Rev. Robert P. Chrysafis

I Recycle Computers

"Saving UnWanted PC's From The Landfill One Computer At A Time :)"

Note: I do Pickups the 1st week of the month.

Owner: FreeStuffWarrenNJ
Moderator: Hunterdonfree 

RE: [Repeater-Builder] Tuning TPL UHF Amplifier

[Mike Mullarkey]

Are you tuning for max out of the amp. What is the manual saying. Start at
the first stage and tune for max out through all the stages.

 

 

Mike Mullarkey K7PFJ

6886 Sage Ave

Firestone, Co 80504

303-954-9695 Home

303-954-9693 Home Office & Fax

303-718-8052 Cellular

From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of flashport68
Sent: Monday, August 03, 2009 4:38 PM
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Tuning TPL UHF Amplifier

 

  

I have a PA6-1BE-RXRFPS amplifier that was factory tuned to 451-465 MHz and
I need to re-tune the amplifier to 443 MHz. After following the re-tuning
directions in the manual, I am only able to get 80 watts out with 10 watts
in. However; with 10 watts in between the factory tuned frequency range, I
am able to get over 100 watts out. The schematics do not list any component
changes that need to be made when re-tuning the amplifier. Does anyone have
any experience with re-tuning these amps and/or component changes that
should be made to tune these into the ham band?

Thanks,

Pat 



No virus found in this incoming message.
Checked by AVG - www.avg.com
Version: 8.5.392 / Virus Database: 270.13.41/2277 - Release Date: 08/02/09
05:56:00

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Gareth Bennett (Ihug)]

Packaging, ease of use and battery life are way up there on the list. Without 
addressing these issues, It's just another portable repeater

Have a look at this. This is what we made for Emergency services  
http://www.signals.net.nz/special_offers/

Either VHF or UHF.

Regards
Gareth Bennett

Re: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[Greg]

Hi Allen,
 
I am also in the process of building a portable repeater, however in the UHF 
band. I think several "must have" features would have to be:
1: Easy to setup.
2: 1 antenna
3. DTMF control (as you are already thinking)
4: 100% duty cycle
 
I know you said you didnt want a duplexor, but there a mobile style units for 
the VHF band that will enable you to run a single antenna. The units do require 
quite a big frequency split (in the range of 40Mhz) but are still small enough 
to carry portable. They have about 1.5db of insertion loss and 72 db of 
isolation. Look at 
http://www.rfi.com.au/downloads/wireless/multicoupling/duplexer132_174.pdf
 
Please post some pics when you are done and maybe some along the way. 
 
Thanks
 
Greg
VK2VGM

--- On Mon, 8/3/09, vhsproducts  wrote:


From: vhsproducts 
Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater
To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, August 3, 2009, 10:09 PM


  



I am in the design stages for a portable VHF (2 meter ham) repeater, and 
thought I would solicit the views of the group for desired features. In broad 
strokes, we plan on a computer programmable unit, capable of one or two field 
selectable operation modes. CTCSS only, no COS or DTS. This is primarily to 
support our SAR users (I manufacture the Micro-Trak line of APRS tracking 
systems sold by Byonics-www. byonics.com) We will have DTMF remote control. The 
goal is a bare-bones repeater, with no provision for a duplexer, so wide 
channel separation and physically separate antennas will be a must. Battery 
power will be the norm, and I am thinking of a system with no more than 8 Watts 
output. What features are a "must-have" in this kind of a machine? What DTMF 
remote functions do we need as a minimum, and are there any features that we 
should have that other controllers don't offer? ( We will be writing our own 
code for the controller, an Atmega
 microprocessor) Has anyone ever attempted a servo controlled duplexer? Did it 
work?

73,

Allen
VHS
AF60F

















  

[Repeater-Builder] Tuning TPL UHF Amplifier

[flashport68]

I have a PA6-1BE-RXRFPS amplifier that was factory tuned to 451-465 MHz and I 
need to re-tune the amplifier to 443 MHz.  After following the re-tuning 
directions in the manual, I am only able to get 80 watts out with 10 watts in.  
However; with 10 watts in between the factory tuned frequency range, I am able 
to get over 100 watts out.  The schematics do not list any component changes 
that need to be made when re-tuning the amplifier.  Does anyone have any 
experience with re-tuning these amps and/or component changes that should be 
made to tune these into the ham band?

Thanks,

Pat 

[Repeater-Builder] Portable repeater

[vhsproducts]

I am in the design stages for a portable VHF (2 meter ham) repeater, and 
thought I would solicit the views of the group for desired features. In broad 
strokes, we plan on a computer programmable unit, capable of one or two field 
selectable operation modes. CTCSS only, no COS or DTS. This is primarily to 
support our SAR users (I manufacture the Micro-Trak line of APRS tracking 
systems sold by Byonics-www.byonics.com) We will have DTMF remote control. The 
goal is a bare-bones repeater, with no provision for a duplexer, so wide 
channel separation and physically separate antennas will be a must. Battery 
power will be the norm, and I am thinking of a system with no more than 8 Watts 
output. What features are a "must-have" in this kind of a machine? What DTMF 
remote functions do we need as a minimum, and are there any features that we 
should have that other controllers don't offer? ( We will be writing our own 
code for the controller, an Atmega microprocessor) Has anyone ever attempted a 
servo controlled duplexer? Did it work?

73,

Allen
VHS
AF60F