Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio for repeater use
Mastr IIs are pretty good radios in repeater service. Is yours a converted mobile or a base station with the big heatsink? G7s have been problematic for repeater service in New Englands climate, not sure about yours. Not sure about the power increase on warmup. If you have a spectrum analyser, does it go spurious? I have seen that, usually cured by a by the book alignment. I'd sooner look at the duplexer, RX preamp (if used), cables, and the aforementioned antenna, before swapping out the radio. There are lots of good alternatives for VHF repeater radios, depends what you can find, and your budget. I much prefer commercial equipment over ham rigs. Good Luck de W1EL Eric Lowell Eastern Maine Electronics Inc. 48 Loon Road Wesley ME 04686 eme@starband.net www.satnetmaine.com --- On Sun, 10/4/09, W3ML w...@arrl.net wrote: From: W3ML w...@arrl.net Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Radio for repeater use To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Sunday, October 4, 2009, 2:24 PM Hi All, I am looking at the changing radios on our repeater because of the problems we are having. We are using a GE Mastr II into a 6 can duplexer and up via 1/2 hardline to a G7-144. However, we can not raise the power above 10 watts before de-sense sets in. Also the radio will climb in power level as it gets hot. I set it at 5 watts out and by the end of a half hour net it is up to 12 watts out. In my opinion this is not right. What radio would be good for a 2 meter repeater. Thanks and 73 John, W3ML
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ARRL Approves Study Committee to Research Develop Plan for Narrowband Channel Spacing
214 will work fine. Glad to hear your making progress! Tom W9SRV Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:24 PM, way2muchrf techiea...@yahoo.com wrote: Has anyone written the ARRL? Sounds like they are wanting to eliminate existing Amateur infrastructure and have us all buy D-Star. Has the ARRL been paid off? Have they overstepped their bounds? These little interest groups have taken over, and having experimentation mandated is a crock of crap. If you like what you have and it works, go with it. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Radio for repeater use
Right message this time. 214 will work fine. Glad to hear your making progress! Tom W9SRV Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:03 PM, W3ML w...@arrl.net wrote: I was Wrong. I have RG-214 double shielded coax running throughout. John --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, W3ML w...@... wrote: Again let me say thanks for all the help. In the 30 years of hamming, this is all new to me and I am learning something new every day I play with this. And yes, it is really fun, to be able to learn something new about our hobby. I have all RG 213 coax as harness cable for the cans and to the radio for transmit and from radio through bandpass to the can on receive. I have been measuring the swr out of the radio. One of you said that I need to move the meter to the other side of the duplexer and check it there. I will do that again. I did check it there before, but have been leaving the meter in line between the radio and duplexer. Right now we have it running at 55 watts (out of radio) and everyone sounds great, except one and that may be his antenna as there is a little frying noise on him. One ham on the other side of county did say the reading went up from S2 to S5 so he was happy and a ham in another county about 27 miles away said we are 20 over at his place. This is a great improvement, because when it was ran around 10 to 20 watts the noise covered everyone up. Thanks gain, I really do appreciate the help. I hope everyone has a great week. 73 John --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2edv@ wrote: Double shielded -- specifically what type? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: W3ML w3ml@ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Radio for repeater use All coax is double shielded from radio to the hardline. Yahoo! Groups Links
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: ARRL Approves Study Committee to Research Develop Plan for Narrowband Channel Spacing
Oops- wrong message for this reply! Sorry. Tom Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:30 PM, W9SRV tgundo2...@yahoo.com wrote: 214 will work fine. Glad to hear your making progress! Tom W9SRV Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:24 PM, way2muchrf techiea...@yahoo.com wrote: Has anyone written the ARRL? Sounds like they are wanting to eliminate existing Amateur infrastructure and have us all buy D-Star. Has the ARRL been paid off? Have they overstepped their bounds? These little interest groups have taken over, and having experimentation mandated is a crock of crap. If you like what you have and it works, go with it. Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links
[Repeater-Builder] OT - Safety Recall, Fluke clamp-on Ammeters and Model TL221, TL222 and TL224 test leads
One of my neighbors is a handyman and he just got a recall notice in the mail. Sometimes it makes sense to register your tools... I did some web research and here's the rest of the story. If you can forward this to the club newsletter editor it would be a good thing... = = = Clamp-On Ammeters: If you have a Fluke 333, 334, 335, 336 or 337 clamp-on ammeter, or know someone who does, then you need to read this: http://support.fluke.com/find-sales/Download/Asset/3475590_2026_ENG_B_W.PDF www.fluke.com/33Xrecall http://www.hvacr-tools.com/Fluke-Recall.pdf This covers about 52 thousand meters that measure 0 to 600 volts alternating current (VAC), 0 to 6000 volts direct current (VDC) and 0 to 400, 600 or 1000 amps alternating current. The plating on the rotary switch contacts is coming off and potentially shorting the switch wiper to ground. This is a life safety issue. Spread it around. Fluke is replacing these meters, no questions asked. = = = Test Leads: Model TL221, TL222 and TL224 test leads http://www.cpsc.gov/cpscpub/prerel/prhtml04/04131.html Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Radio for repeater use
John, Now if you'll just consider Letting the big dog eat ( turn it up to full power), and mounting a 224E on the side of your tower as high as possible, you'll be talking. Remember height is might, it's also free gain. One more thing, get yourself a Bird Watt Meter!! de Lee K4LJP 73 On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 8:35 PM, W9SRV tgundo2...@yahoo.com wrote: Right message this time. 214 will work fine. Glad to hear your making progress! Tom W9SRV Sent from my iPhone On Oct 4, 2009, at 7:03 PM, W3ML w...@arrl.net w3ml%40arrl.net wrote: I was Wrong. I have RG-214 double shielded coax running throughout. John --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, W3ML w...@... wrote: Again let me say thanks for all the help. In the 30 years of hamming, this is all new to me and I am learning something new every day I play with this. And yes, it is really fun, to be able to learn something new about our hobby. I have all RG 213 coax as harness cable for the cans and to the radio for transmit and from radio through bandpass to the can on receive. I have been measuring the swr out of the radio. One of you said that I need to move the meter to the other side of the duplexer and check it there. I will do that again. I did check it there before, but have been leaving the meter in line between the radio and duplexer. Right now we have it running at 55 watts (out of radio) and everyone sounds great, except one and that may be his antenna as there is a little frying noise on him. One ham on the other side of county did say the reading went up from S2 to S5 so he was happy and a ham in another county about 27 miles away said we are 20 over at his place. This is a great improvement, because when it was ran around 10 to 20 watts the noise covered everyone up. Thanks gain, I really do appreciate the help. I hope everyone has a great week. 73 John --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Chuck Kelsey wb2edv@ wrote: Double shielded -- specifically what type? Chuck WB2EDV - Original Message - From: W3ML w3ml@ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:52 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Radio for repeater use All coax is double shielded from radio to the hardline. Yahoo! Groups Links -- Always drink upstream from the herd.
[Repeater-Builder] 6m very heavy duty J pole for repeater use.
Ok guys, I need input. I just got the club mastr ii 6m repeater rebuilt and I am thinking of replacing the antenna. Currently it is using a huge diamond antenna that is about 22' feet tall! It is supposed to have 6db gain, but it has taken a beating up on the top of the hospital where it has been for a number of years. I have a db-201 I could replace it with, but I think I may have a better idea... What if I used a db-420 mast and a db-222 mast and use those to construct a J pole This should be heavy duty enough, at dc ground and work better than the db-201. Any thoughts guys? 73 Norm
[Repeater-Builder] Spinning disk wattmeter...
A ham I know is doing some research and needs to locate a spinning disk KWH meter, with socket, cheap or free... If he turns up something interesting it will end up as a repeater-builder article. He wrote: My concern is that the cabinet I had here last year measured at idle 1.5 amps at 120V (180VA) yet also only measured 43 Watts with the Kill-A-Watt meter. I am looking for another device to tell me what the electric company is actually seeing and billing. Might one of your connections have an extra single phase KWH meter in the junk box? I suspect he has a situation involving power factor. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Narrow(er) band FM
I have a GM300 narrowband mobile (M34GMC00D3A), how do I know when its programmed to do 12.5Khz? There is nothing in RSS to select, where the MTS2000 CPS allows unique modes for narrowband. Thanks, Tony Cort Buffington wrote: I said I'd report back XYL and I were out with the EX500s today. I copied the channel we normally use for simplex and changed nothing but made it a narrower channel. Results. Noise squelch seems sloppier (normally I use DPL or PL, so that really isn't to big of a deal), audio fidelity is reduced. We weren't far enough apart to really test range. I think the audio quality was still pretty good, but when do do ok, go back to channel 3 now... It's quite clear the narrow sounds quite noticeably better than the narrower. 73 DE N0MJS P.S. I also wonder about the frequency accuracy of radios going to the super-narrow band. I've looked at a lot of ham rigs on my service monitor. They are usually worse than the commercial radios in this area. Isn't that going to have a more pronounced effect? On Oct 3, 2009, at 4:22 PM, John Sehring wrote: I think it's worth repeating (no pun intended!): 0. In a narrower band FM system, with only the carrier present, you may well get a bit more ultimate quieting sensitivity (but not necessarily better SINAD) as the receiver's IF bandpass (selectivity) is narrower, letting less noise thru. However, the question is: how much of that slightly increased sensivity is actually useable? 1. Reducing FM deviation to less than about 5 kHz results in less power in the sidebands, which sidebands convey the intelligence (the carrier is just there to enable the usual demodulation (detection) process). As the detector needs the sideband energy, even granting (1) above, you'll have less recovered audio available. The signal's spectrum then begins to resemble that of an equivalently-modulated AM signal; the major difference is that with an FM signal, the carrier is 90 degrees out of phase with the sidebands, whereas with AM, carrier and sidebands are in phase. 2. Reducing FM deviation (and narrowing IF bandpass) allows more distortion in receivers at low (fringe) signal levels, so it's less able to deal with things like multipath propagation, AM noise, FM noise (yes, there is such a thing), and co-channel interference. Signal to noise ratio is thus reduced. 3. Squelch action becomes sloppier because the demodulated audio spectrum which is used for noise-operated squelch is quite a bit less when using narrower band FM. Rule of thumb for the squelch detector's bandpass: it extends from A) just above the voice audio band, say, 4 kHz, to B) about one-half the IF bandwidth. The latter is distinctly less, so the squelch sensing bandpass is less making squelch action less responsive. If you use an audio spectrum analyzer to look at a demodulated FM signal, you can see the spectral differences between 75 (FM broadcast), 25 (NTSC TV sound), 15, 5, and 2.5 kHz deviated signals, esp. as the signal strengths are reduced to zero. --John
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Spinning disk wattmeter...
Yeah, that is a big issue with those big and heavy ferroresonant power supplies from GE and Motorola. At low loads, they are incredibly inefficient, with very low power factors- meaning the volt-amperes are much higher than the watts. Proof of this statement is found in the Files section of this group, in my Power Supply Load Test folder. You pay for electric energy in kilowatt-hours, kWh, not for volt-amperes. Regardless of what the ammeter reads, the Kill-A-Watt reading of 43 watts is what counts. If we assume that the repeater sits idle for 24 hours and consumes 43 watts, that is 1.032 kWh per day- probably 15 cents worth. I have one of those Kill-A-Watt meters, as well as some spinning-disk meters, and they agree very closely. Electricity suppliers don't like low power factors, because even though the power consumption may be low, the utility must build their infrastructure to supply those reactive amperes, meaning bigger generators, transformers, and power lines. Large industrial customers are often penalized for low power factor, to help pay for the additional capital equipment that must be installed to supply reactive amperes. That's why new commercial gear is using power-factor-corrected switchmode power supplies. The definition of high power factor varies, but most utilities want PF to be above 0.9. It should be emphasized that one cannot determine power consumed (watts) by separately measuring volts and amps. Separate measurements result in volt-amperes, which is also called apparent power. To measure true power, one must use a wattmeter. A mechanical wattmeter is called an electrodynamometer, and is a meter that has two coils- instead of one coil and a permanent magnet. One coil is connected in parallel with the load, and is energized by voltage. The other coil is much heavier and is connected in series with the load, and is energized by current. The torque on the meter movement is the instantaneous sum of voltage and current in phase, result in a deflection indicative of power. An electronic wattmeter uses a circuit element known as a four-quadrant multiplier, meaning that the comparison of voltage and current is continuous through 360 degrees. I have just such an instrument, a WD-767 digital wattmeter made by VIZ. It can display true-RMS volts, true-RMS current, and true power in watts. Very handy! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Spinning disk wattmeter... A ham I know is doing some research and needs to locate a spinning disk KWH meter, with socket, cheap or free... If he turns up something interesting it will end up as a repeater-builder article. He wrote: My concern is that the cabinet I had here last year measured at idle 1.5 amps at 120V (180VA) yet also only measured 43 Watts with the Kill-A-Watt meter. I am looking for another device to tell me what the electric company is actually seeing and billing. Might one of your connections have an extra single phase KWH meter in the junk box? I suspect he has a situation involving power factor. Mike WA6ILQ
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Spinning disk wattmeter...
There is a device called a Kill a watt, that is a plug in kWh meter, should be avalible at big hardware stores. http://www.killawattplus.com On Sun, Oct 4, 2009 at 6:57 PM, Eric Lemmon wb6...@verizon.net wrote: Yeah, that is a big issue with those big and heavy ferroresonant power supplies from GE and Motorola. At low loads, they are incredibly inefficient, with very low power factors- meaning the volt-amperes are much higher than the watts. Proof of this statement is found in the Files section of this group, in my Power Supply Load Test folder. You pay for electric energy in kilowatt-hours, kWh, not for volt-amperes. Regardless of what the ammeter reads, the Kill-A-Watt reading of 43 watts is what counts. If we assume that the repeater sits idle for 24 hours and consumes 43 watts, that is 1.032 kWh per day- probably 15 cents worth. I have one of those Kill-A-Watt meters, as well as some spinning-disk meters, and they agree very closely. Electricity suppliers don't like low power factors, because even though the power consumption may be low, the utility must build their infrastructure to supply those reactive amperes, meaning bigger generators, transformers, and power lines. Large industrial customers are often penalized for low power factor, to help pay for the additional capital equipment that must be installed to supply reactive amperes. That's why new commercial gear is using power-factor-corrected switchmode power supplies. The definition of high power factor varies, but most utilities want PF to be above 0.9. It should be emphasized that one cannot determine power consumed (watts) by separately measuring volts and amps. Separate measurements result in volt-amperes, which is also called apparent power. To measure true power, one must use a wattmeter. A mechanical wattmeter is called an electrodynamometer, and is a meter that has two coils- instead of one coil and a permanent magnet. One coil is connected in parallel with the load, and is energized by voltage. The other coil is much heavier and is connected in series with the load, and is energized by current. The torque on the meter movement is the instantaneous sum of voltage and current in phase, result in a deflection indicative of power. An electronic wattmeter uses a circuit element known as a four-quadrant multiplier, meaning that the comparison of voltage and current is continuous through 360 degrees. I have just such an instrument, a WD-767 digital wattmeter made by VIZ. It can display true-RMS volts, true-RMS current, and true power in watts. Very handy! 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Mike Morris WA6ILQ Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 6:10 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Spinning disk wattmeter... A ham I know is doing some research and needs to locate a spinning disk KWH meter, with socket, cheap or free... If he turns up something interesting it will end up as a repeater-builder article. He wrote: My concern is that the cabinet I had here last year measured at idle 1.5 amps at 120V (180VA) yet also only measured 43 Watts with the Kill-A-Watt meter. I am looking for another device to tell me what the electric company is actually seeing and billing. Might one of your connections have an extra single phase KWH meter in the junk box? I suspect he has a situation involving power factor. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Narrow(er) band FM
Tony, The 00 in the model number reveals that it already IS designed for the new narrow-band channels (12.5 kHz). You don't have a choice; that's the only emission it is capable of. Some other radio models are programmable for bandwidth, but not the GM300- you choose which bandwidth when you buy it. 73, Eric Lemmon WB6FLY -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Tony KT9AC Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 4:49 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Narrow(er) band FM I have a GM300 narrowband mobile (M34GMC00D3A), how do I know when it's programmed to do 12.5 kHz? There is nothing in RSS to select, where the MTS2000 CPS allows unique modes for narrowband. Thanks, Tony
RE: [Repeater-Builder] 6m very heavy duty J pole for repeater use.
It might , I use a home made copper pipe J pole here with great success for beyond line of sight To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com From: nkn...@twowayradio.net Date: Sun, 4 Oct 2009 20:24:53 -0500 Subject: [Repeater-Builder] 6m very heavy duty J pole for repeater use. Ok guys, I need input. I just got the club mastr ii 6m repeater rebuilt and I am thinking of replacing the antenna. Currently it is using a huge diamond antenna that is about 22' feet tall! It is supposed to have 6db gain, but it has taken a beating up on the top of the hospital where it has been for a number of years. I have a db-201 I could replace it with, but I think I may have a better idea... What if I used a db-420 mast and a db-222 mast and use those to construct a J pole This should be heavy duty enough, at dc ground and work better than the db-201. Any thoughts guys? 73 Norm _ View photos of singles in your area Click Here http://clk.atdmt.com/NMN/go/150855801/direct/01/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Radio for repeater use
John--- Just read today's emails---seems to me that we can make the assumption that your repeater system did at one time work to everybody's satisfaction and then went bad with a desense problem. If this is the case. we are looking for something that has degraded from being acceptable--its probably not the time to start redesigning and replacing the system from one end to the other--but to fix the problem -especially as you are under pressure to perform a quick fix. Now, you mention that your system includes a G7-144 (Hustler) antenna and I read in your responses, several comments as to the Hustler antenna not being very good and in fact being the cause of many problems. This is indeed the case when corrosion sets in-The antenna can switch from being a fine performer to a source of totally disabling desense. I say this from experience with the antenna---I've been there and VSWR readings remained normal. My problem was that corrosion between the elements of the G7 antenna resulted in rectification of the transmit energy and generation of wideband noise around the transmit frequency with sufficient noise energy at the receive frequency (which went back down the feedline, through the duplexer and straight into the receiver) to swamp all but the strongest local users. How do you determine if this sort of thing is responsible for your trouble? Replace the antenna with one known to be good or if this can't be easily done-do some iso T testing. Iso T testing can be a bit involved for a beginner and some auxiliary test gear is required which may not be availableyou can read about this in the RB archives. In your case, a simple antenna change may be easierjust about any antenna will do from an AX-50 onjust be sure that the antenna you try is in good shape and the repeater won't care. If I'm on the right track, ask questions---and yes, the G7 antenna can be rebuilt to better than new---been there and done that ---and am in fact still using it now. Scott, N6NXI - Original Message - From: W3ML To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 10:24 AM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Radio for repeater use Hi All, I am looking at the changing radios on our repeater because of the problems we are having. We are using a GE Mastr II into a 6 can duplexer and up via 1/2 hardline to a G7-144. However, we can not raise the power above 10 watts before de-sense sets in. Also the radio will climb in power level as it gets hot. I set it at 5 watts out and by the end of a half hour net it is up to 12 watts out. In my opinion this is not right. What radio would be good for a 2 meter repeater. Thanks and 73 John, W3ML
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Announcements from a PC...
Thanks to all of you who responded. I knew there had to be something out there. This actually addressed another question I had earlier. I had wondered if there was any software that could act as a repeater controller. Seems as though this will act as a full-featured controller as well. Again, thanks! RR --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, David Struebel wb2...@... wrote: Echostation? Dave WB2FTX - Original Message - From: ki4zji To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Sunday, October 04, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Announcements from a PC... Does anyone know of any software that would allow scheduled announcements (either recorded voice or synthesized) through a soundcard interface and remote radio? Thanks, Randy -- No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/04/09 18:42:00 No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.5.409 / Virus Database: 270.14.3/2414 - Release Date: 10/04/09 18:42:00
[Repeater-Builder] Help with Vertex vxr7000 on ham bands
Hi Gang Has any one had success in programming a vertex VXR-7000 U in to the Ham band 440-450 Mhz. What soft ware did you use? I have the CE27 that works on my old DOS lap top. It will not let me put in freq. like 446. Mhz. Any help would be appreciated. 73 Dick WB6DNX
