[Repeater-Builder] Re: Setting HT600/P200/MT1000
To Richard and Howard and the other gentleman who responded: Firstly, Howard, I don't want to sound patronizing but I accept your apology. I understand your response and appreciate the context in which it was given. But, seriously, the radios were NOT to be used in part 90 service but rather part 97 in which the FCC graciously allows us to experiment within a broader scope of limitations than the commercial setrivce. Also Richard, I do lament the predicament you found yourself in. My experience with RB here has been cordial. I asked some questions about a very tenative subject -- the format and content of HT600/MT1000 code plugs -- and recieved a wealth of informaton in return. I was also informally invited to "publish" the results on RB subject to the editor's approval. I could have been slammed harshly because perhaps the Moto lawyers would understandably like to squelch the propagation of such data. (Parenthetically, being a software developer, I am familiar with intellectual property laws and, while illegally copying and distributing of software or giving away company secrets is not permitted, one *can* reverse engineer a product if one is extemely careful and has no direct knowledge of the internals. This was done many years ago when Dr DOS was created as a mimic of MS-DOS. Now, I am sure that one cannot play fast and loose with this, but it's less prone to scrutiny than blatant piracy. Hence, anything I do offer to RB will pass the smell test of the site owner and I will abide is decision.) Like your situation, I wanted to see how much I could push the envelope on these older radios and do not have the wealth of commercial two-way skills that many here have. I suspect that I would find out what Howard advised me of right enough, but the best way to learn is to "bust your knuckles" trying to do something. In any event, Howard, I do appreciate your input and would like to take the opportunity some time to bounce my results off you if you do not mind. Respectfully, Bill, k6whp --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "The Marlins" wrote: > > ..but the radio police sure had their say..
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Setting HT600/P200/MT1000
--- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, "ka1jfy" wrote: > > Please, PLEASE, P L E A S E tell me you're NOT trying to use > those wideband only radios on a narrowband Part 90 system! > They will NOT meet the emission mask for narrowband operation > without turning the total deviation below 2 kHz. > > And the receivers will still be wideband. > > Bad choice. > Bite the bullet and buy some narrow capable radios. > Leave those for GMRS or Ham use. > > WalterH O.k., WalterH, I will tell you I am NOT trying to use those wideband only radios on a narrowband Part 90 system. Thank you for your considerable technical help. 73, Bill, k6whp
[Repeater-Builder] Setting HT600/P200/MT1000
..does anyone have any experience in setting the deviation of the HT600/P200/MT1000 radios to 2.5 KHz? Can it be done using the reference settings alone? That is, halving the current values might get the dev into the ballpark without using a monitor or other test equipment. And, on the subject, anyone know of a "cheap and dirty" methd of measuring deviation? Thanks in advance. Bill, k6whp
[Repeater-Builder] Moto NTN4633x Rapid Chargers
After reading WA1MIL's wonderful article on modifying NTN4633B chargers (reducing the trickle rate and reverting to trickle on power-up with a charged battery), I have a coupl of questions for the group: (1) The article stated that this mod essentially upgraded chargers from a "B" model to a "C" model. I was wondering what the difference between the "A" and "B" models were. (2) I attempted to duplicate the "power-off" conditions with a "C" model I have (fully charged battery on "green" trickle charge, pulling the plug, and expecting it to revert to "green" trickle when power re-applied) but the charger goes into quick charge more. So, are these mods really more that what a "C" model has in it or what? ..do I make sense, and thanks in advance for your responses. (Also, great article, by the way!) Bill, k6whp
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure
Mike, Bob, and Chris, I was thinking about what Chris just suggested (MS VC++, smaller executable and you don't have to drag that immense run time around) but was not sure that the subject would be welcomed by Motorola's legal department. Still in all, it's reverse engineering a file structure with (I can assure you) NO prior knowledge of the code plug internal specification nor any association with Mororola (as in revealing company secrets, etc.). Chris, I am sure you know this, but the reason the RSS is so bad is that it was a different paradigm back in the late 80s; we did not have much in the way of OOP and Windows was in its infancy. Visual Studio and MFC (VB and VC++) were not due out for a couple of years and neither was Borland's 16/32 bit OWL. The RSS gets bagged on a lot, but it really was not bad for what it did and how it did it once you get the funcion keys down pat. I wonder if one could really reverse engineer the RSS completely..that is, write and app that edits code plugs and reads/ writes them to Moto radios? Technically, I don't guess there is a legal problem but -- as one of this site's excellent articles on the subject says -- the Batwing legal beagles could be like the 900-pound gorilla. As Bob suggestd, I'll continue to post my discoveries here as they get unravelled. Like Chris, I have a couple an MT1000 and a couple of HT600s that could use some looking into. Regards, Bill, k6whp (a.k.a., WKJW253) --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Chris Carruba wrote: > > Mike, > > I have a mt1000 and find the rss for it appalling to use... > I think it would be nice to wrap a VB program around the codeplug to edit it. > > If you care to elaborate more on your knowledge of the codeplug i might be able to write a wrapper for it in Visual Basic... > > Best Regards, > > Chris Carruba (WQIK389) > > CompuTec Data Systems > Custom Written Software, > Networking, Forensic Data Recovery
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Motorola RSS File Structure
Mike, MCH, et al, Thank you for your comments and particularly the "Rosetta Stone" for the channel lines of an MT1000 codeplug. Several observations, which may be of interest: (1) The first 14 lines (which appear to be 11 lines for my 16-channel MT1000) are not entirely sacred grounds. It is possible to "hack" that data to some degree, although at this point, I haven't really investigated it thoroughly and the RSS might just as well provide one enough access...so why bother. By the way, I refer to them as the "header" data and the channel lines as "detail" data. (2) I suspect one of the reasons that modifying the header data -- or using a pedestrian editor like Notepad -- doesn't work out is because it/they might truncate the three blank lines between the top of the header data and the part that precedes the detail data. Below, modified to not wrap, is a snippet from a codeplug header. Notice that the line containing the recurring "1234566789+" literals is the first of these three blank lines. The remaining two are polulated woth periods. These were modified (filled with non blanks) adulterated, saved, and re-read without incident. I have not written the codeplug to the radio, so be careful. The point is that so long as there are 48 blanks terminated by a CR/LF (0x0DOA) the code plug seems fine. (3) Of possible interest to hack would be the big long, line of "308NONENONENONENONENONE.." which appears to be the PL table. The format belowis separated into significant tokens for clarity: 308 D023 D023 0693 2336 0719 2418 0744 2503 0719 2541 where: 308 = constant value D023 = Digital 023 (TX & RX) for entry one 0693 = TPL 69.3 (TX) for entry two 2336 = TPL 233.6 (RX) for entry two ..etc. Header of 16-channel MT1000: 00F604782YYYABCDEFGHIJ XYZ1ARU0909H445S ENDDD0103084000300303016070... 042NONE NONE 042NONE NONE EEEDXXX 308D023D02306932336071924180744250307192541NONENONE... 123456789+123456789+123456789+123456789+12345678 020007007DDEE0001DDDEDEED1501500500DEK EEDDDNPDE01500502577750790101800080 01562EE100110011001100110011001100110011001100110011001000 D015DD0821649 (4) I use an editor called UltraEdit; it is by far the best product available for software developers. It has a built-in hex editor that can be toggled on or off. By the way, no pecuniary interest here, just a satisfied customer. It is cheap, however, and offers a 45-day trial period. (5) By the way, if one is interested in methodology, it is possible to run the RSS in a DOS window (remember, the radio is NOT being programmed), edit the code plug, read a code plug with RSS, make changes using the RSS, and instantly have the editor alert you that a change has been made so can see the net effects. I tried this on my friend's computer with his RSS and my code plugs. I have not gotten into the HT600 code plugs yet, but I suspect that some of the data blocks are pretty much the same -- or, at least similar. Again, Mike, I am grateful for your insights and the wonderful contributions you and the others have made to the Repeater Builder's site. These areicles have fueled my excitement for these radios. They are great bargains, can be fixed up, and offer reliable and sturdy alternative to the more fragile, higher-priced alternatives. Besides, as a ham, I just like to take things apart and see what makes them tick. 73s, Bill, k6whp > > Funny you should ask about the Genesis radios. They are the > only code plugs that I've really looked closely at. > > The HT600 and P200 (except low band) are the same radio. > The HT600E, MT1000 and low band P200 are the same radio. > > I have no knowledge of the HT600 code plug, but the MT1000 > code plug is straight ASCII text characters that are positioned > at specific byte locations in the code plug. > > My interest in cracking the code plug is because I have > several MT1000s - a 16 channel UHF on GMRS, a 99-channel > UHF on mixed use, ..etc.
[Repeater-Builder] Motorola RSS File Structure
In possibly what may be the most blindingly dump question ever posted here, but has there ever been a deconstruction of the codeplug files for Motorola's HT600, P200, and MT1000 radios? Please know that I am NOT asking for RSS nor am I asking for copyrighted or patented material from Motorola. Nor am I asking that anything be sent to me. I am wondering if anyone has reverese-engineered the codeplug structure and posted it. Again, this request should be in NO WAY construed as a solicitation for intellectual property, material, or product. Thanks in advance for any comments, W. H. Phinizy, k6whp
[Repeater-Builder] "Aftermarket" Moto RSS software documentation
Being well aware of Motorola's copyright enforcement vigorousness and not wishing to trnsgress same, does anyone know of any *aftermarket* or "public domain" documentaiton or operating notes for the HT600/ P200 and the MT1000 RSS? Please understand that I am NOT looking for illegitimate copies of the RSS or the documentation. Thanks in advance, Also, any referrals to good sources for aftermarket battery packs for the above radios would be appreciated. Bill, k6whp Fountain Valley, California
