Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
On Tuesday 23 November 2004 01:40 pm, Mike WA6ILQ wrote: Do you have a spare digital output and a spare digital input? Can you trigger a timer on an input going inactive? If so, add a 555 timer chip outside. Yes, Yes, and Aha! Thanks for the idea. If I do that I will have used up all my digital inputs but it certainly is another option worthy of serious consideration. Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
At 04:17 PM 11/22/04, you wrote: On Sunday 21 November 2004 05:07 pm, Mike WA6ILQ wrote: A line driver card could be stripped and a vectorboard mounted and used to hold a few ice cube relays to do the switching. I've got no clue as I have never worked with line driver cards. The micor station line driver card is a double-wide card and I was picturing stripping one and using it as a starting point - essentially a paddle board - for building up a sequence that would mount in the micor card cage. Picture a piece of vectorboard mounted on standoffs with wires going down to the original line driver board just to attach to the appropriate pins. A 555 can source or sink 200mils... I generally limit them to 100-120 just to avoid blowing them up. A few 555s with relays could do it. Alternatively... I don't know about the other repeater controller manu- facturers but I could do it on an Scom 7K with a few macros triggered from digital inputs and controlling digital outputs. The AC Power present signal can be derived from the unregulated side of the power supply, or worst-case from a wall-wart 5v power pack... either way it can drive an opto- isolator which can be fed to a digital input on the controller. Yep, feeding logic to a digital input to initiate the sequence is the easy part. I've been up thinking about this most of the night, and it looks like I can do it on my RLC-4. It would sure be nice if there were a way to force a slight pause between executing commands in a macro, instead of starting a user timer and having it call yet another macro when it expires. The Scom has a command that can be included in the macro to pause the execution - it actually freezes the entire controller until it times out. Maybe the Link has something similar. The minimum PTT down time during transition will be 2 seconds due to limitations on user timers. Is there something that you can queue up that will force a shorter pause? Scom timers do not have that 2-second minimum, but if it did you could have a macro send a message to an unused port (maybe to the autopatch while it is on hook), then embed a macro trigger in the message string. The message could be a 1/2 second of MCW, or a paging tone sequence, as the contents wouldn't matter. However, I think it will work! New project in the queue! Isn't that always the case? Projects get pushed onto to the queue faster than they get popped off I've found high power coax relays now and then at C H Surplus a.k.a. C H Sales in Pasadena, Calif. Phone is 626-796-2628. Don't know if they have a web site. Please post your results. Thanks, and thanks for all your input. I had previously thought about and rejected the idea of controller programming to do this, but now that I look at it again it seems viable. I'll post whether it works or not, as soon as I find time to get it done. Time to get a 'round 'tuit. Paul N1BUG Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
On Monday 22 November 2004 08:09 pm, Mike WA6ILQ wrote: The Scom has a command that can be included in the macro to pause the execution - it actually freezes the entire controller until it times out. Maybe the Link has something similar. Nice. The Link RLC-4 doesn't have anything similar unless it's undocumented. I read the whole manual again to be sure. Is there something that you can queue up that will force a shorter pause? Scom timers do not have that 2-second minimum, but if it did you could have a macro send a message to an unused port (maybe to the autopatch while it is on hook), then embed a macro trigger in the message string. I'll have to ask Link or other users of this controller to see if there is any equivalent trick that could be done. It's not possible to embed a macro trigger in a message, and sandwiching it between two messages doesn't have the desired effect. Messages are played in the background while the controller does other things, so it will execute the following command(s) while the first message is just starting or even before it starts. I discovered that the first day I got this controller! The only thing I've found to really wish for in this thing so far is some sort of pause execution command for short delays. Isn't that always the case? Projects get pushed onto to the queue faster than they get popped off They sure do. No worries about the queue becoming empty and boredom setting in! Time to get a 'round 'tuit. Uh, I think I need several 'round 'tuits! Things have been crazy lately. I really want to get that next collinear finished before I end up installing it on a tower during a blizzard (not that it would be the first time I've done that... nor the last, I expect). Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
At 04:25 AM 11/23/04, you wrote: On Monday 22 November 2004 08:09 pm, Mike WA6ILQ wrote: Is there something that you can queue up that will force a shorter pause? Scom timers do not have that 2-second minimum, but if it did you could have a macro send a message to an unused port (maybe to the autopatch while it is on hook), then embed a macro trigger in the message string. I'll have to ask Link or other users of this controller to see if there is any equivalent trick that could be done. It's not possible to embed a macro trigger in a message, and sandwiching it between two messages doesn't have the desired effect. Messages are played in the background while the controller does other things, so it will execute the following command(s) while the first message is just starting or even before it starts. I discovered that the first day I got this controller! The only thing I've found to really wish for in this thing so far is some sort of pause execution command for short delays. Do you have a spare digital output and a spare digital input? Can you trigger a timer on an input going inactive? If so, add a 555 timer chip outside. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
For some reason, I seem to have an excess of Line Driver cards :( Neil Mike WA6ILQ wrote: At 01:44 PM 11/21/04, Paul Kelley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (big chunk chopped) They seem to. In normal practice, the antenna relays are actually switched prior to the channel element being enabled. This function was incorporated into the Station Control Module by using the delays already built into that module. While I'm not suggesting the way I do it is the best, and while I don't make it a practice of hot switching the PA's, it does work and hasn't given any trouble, yet; however it's only been on the air a short time. Thanks for all the helpful information. I've given the matter some thought to see if I could come up with some sort of switching logic that would disable PTT, switch the relays and then enable PTT. The flow chart and design of the common moonbounce preamp switching can be your starting point. Ideally it would be nice if it did that when the PA is switched in or out by a control function and when AC power fails or comes back up. A line driver card could be stripped and a vectorboard mounted and used to hold a few ice cube relays to do the switching. Alternatively... I don't know about the other repeater controller manu- facturers but I could do it on an Scom 7K with a few macros triggered from digital inputs and controlling digital outputs. The AC Power present signal can be derived from the unregulated side of the power supply, or worst-case from a wall-wart 5v power pack... either way it can drive an opto- isolator which can be fed to a digital input on the controller. Meanwhile I think I will just try some different relays with the existing configuration and see if they hold up any better than the DowKey type (unknown manufacturer) that I used last time. I've found high power coax relays now and then at C H Surplus a.k.a. C H Sales in Pasadena, Calif. Phone is 626-796-2628. Don't know if they have a web site. Please post your results. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
On Sunday 21 November 2004 05:07 pm, Mike WA6ILQ wrote: The flow chart and design of the common moonbounce preamp switching can be your starting point. I have been on moonbounce and used relay sequencing schemes for many years, but the required flow here is quite different. Probably a simple design problem for some, but it has me baffled. A line driver card could be stripped and a vectorboard mounted and used to hold a few ice cube relays to do the switching. I've got no clue as I have never worked with line driver cards. Alternatively... I don't know about the other repeater controller manu- facturers but I could do it on an Scom 7K with a few macros triggered from digital inputs and controlling digital outputs. The AC Power present signal can be derived from the unregulated side of the power supply, or worst-case from a wall-wart 5v power pack... either way it can drive an opto- isolator which can be fed to a digital input on the controller. Yep, feeding logic to a digital input to initiate the sequence is the easy part. I've been up thinking about this most of the night, and it looks like I can do it on my RLC-4. It would sure be nice if there were a way to force a slight pause between executing commands in a macro, instead of starting a user timer and having it call yet another macro when it expires. The minimum PTT down time during transition will be 2 seconds due to limitations on user timers. However, I think it will work! New project in the queue! I've found high power coax relays now and then at C H Surplus a.k.a. C H Sales in Pasadena, Calif. Phone is 626-796-2628. Don't know if they have a web site. Please post your results. Thanks, and thanks for all your input. I had previously thought about and rejected the idea of controller programming to do this, but now that I look at it again it seems viable. I'll post whether it works or not, as soon as I find time to get it done. Paul N1BUG Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
On Saturday 20 November 2004 10:14 am, Kevin Custer wrote: A Micor Mobile antenna relay for the input power (400 mW), and the OEM GE antenna relay used with the high power station (part number unknown, but it looks and is similar in size to a Dow Key Relay) for the hot side of the RF. OK. I am familiar with both of those relays. Since these relays are driven from a 110 volt derived source, they simply drop out and the 110 watt PA takes over. It switches in a matter of milliseconds and the user might only tell by his S meter. I wouldn't mind even a couple seconds of dropout while things switch. It doesn't happen that often. They seem to. In normal practice, the antenna relays are actually switched prior to the channel element being enabled. This function was incorporated into the Station Control Module by using the delays already built into that module. While I'm not suggesting the way I do it is the best, and while I don't make it a practice of hot switching the PA's, it does work and hasn't given any trouble, yet; however it's only been on the air a short time. Thanks for all the helpful information. I've given the matter some thought to see if I could come up with some sort of switching logic that would disable PTT, switch the relays and then enable PTT. Ideally it would be nice if it did that when the PA is switched in or out by a control function and when AC power fails or comes back up. Meanwhile I think I will just try some different relays with the existing configuration and see if they hold up any better than the DowKey type (unknown manufacturer) that I used last time. Paul Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
At 01:44 PM 11/21/04, Paul Kelley [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (big chunk chopped) They seem to. In normal practice, the antenna relays are actually switched prior to the channel element being enabled. This function was incorporated into the Station Control Module by using the delays already built into that module. While I'm not suggesting the way I do it is the best, and while I don't make it a practice of hot switching the PA's, it does work and hasn't given any trouble, yet; however it's only been on the air a short time. Thanks for all the helpful information. I've given the matter some thought to see if I could come up with some sort of switching logic that would disable PTT, switch the relays and then enable PTT. The flow chart and design of the common moonbounce preamp switching can be your starting point. Ideally it would be nice if it did that when the PA is switched in or out by a control function and when AC power fails or comes back up. A line driver card could be stripped and a vectorboard mounted and used to hold a few ice cube relays to do the switching. Alternatively... I don't know about the other repeater controller manu- facturers but I could do it on an Scom 7K with a few macros triggered from digital inputs and controlling digital outputs. The AC Power present signal can be derived from the unregulated side of the power supply, or worst-case from a wall-wart 5v power pack... either way it can drive an opto- isolator which can be fed to a digital input on the controller. Meanwhile I think I will just try some different relays with the existing configuration and see if they hold up any better than the DowKey type (unknown manufacturer) that I used last time. I've found high power coax relays now and then at C H Surplus a.k.a. C H Sales in Pasadena, Calif. Phone is 626-796-2628. Don't know if they have a web site. Please post your results. Mike WA6ILQ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [Repeater-Builder] GE-Moto (antenna relay question)
Paul Kelley wrote: Kevin, That is one awesome repeater! Nice mix of GE and Motorola stuff. I sort of have the reverse situation with GE receiver / exciter and Moto PA. I have questions concerning the PA selection relays. I assume you have relays at the PA outputs as well as the inputs? Correct. The Micor Mobile antenna relay is used backwards, as the exciter input goes to the PL connector. The connection marked R or receive is of course normally closed. This connection goes to the input of the 110 watt PA, the other port (T) is going to the input of the 10 watt PA. At the other end exists the factory GE antenna relay that originally connected the antenna to the receiver or amplifier output (this amplifier was used in Basestation service before and had the relay already in place). The output of the 110 watt PA goes the the normally closed port of the output relay (the one that originally fed the receiver). The output relay only engages when the GE tube PA is driven (with RF and PTT) and of course is the PA that is selected. What type of relays are you using A Micor Mobile antenna relay for the input power (400 mW), and the OEM GE antenna relay used with the high power station (part number unknown, but it looks and is similar in size to a Dow Key Relay) for the hot side of the RF. and do you have some means of preventing them from hot switching while RF power is applied? Sort of. By virtue of the way the output relay is driven, drive is actually removed from the tube PA before the output antenna relay switches. While drive and power already exists from the 110 watt PA, I felt this was the lesser of the two evils. And if not, what happens in the event of a power failure while the machine is in use? Since these relays are driven from a 110 volt derived source, they simply drop out and the 110 watt PA takes over. It switches in a matter of milliseconds and the user might only tell by his S meter. I mean do the relays handle it OK? They seem to. In normal practice, the antenna relays are actually switched prior to the channel element being enabled. This function was incorporated into the Station Control Module by using the delays already built into that module. While I'm not suggesting the way I do it is the best, and while I don't make it a practice of hot switching the PA's, it does work and hasn't given any trouble, yet; however it's only been on the air a short time. Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
