[Repeater-Builder] Re: How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Thanks. Bryan KE7GVJ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > bkcarter33 wrote: > > Mike, > > > > I appreciate your response and concerns. I should have mentioned in > > my original post that I am either the the representative of the > > license holder (Kaysville City) for these frequencies, or in contact > > with the person who is. > Sounds like yours is a different story. My impressions of CERT (at least > in this area) is that they are a bunch of gung ho folks that want to > take matters into their own hands. Sounds like you guys are much more > organized than that. > > As long as you know the pitfalls and how to work around them, sounds > like you';ll be fine.. Best of luck. Mike >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Ok, let me ask this question. In the scenario I am talking about, I know I need FB2 on the UHF side. Do I need it on the VHF side or is FB enough? Remember I am not repeating VHF to VHF, just over to UHF, and the UHF to UHF is already FB2. And yes, these are all true public service frequencies, verified and coordinated through APCO. Not commercial, not GMRS, not amateaur. "Public Service" as stated in the original post. BRyan KE7GVJ --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, wd8chl <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Chris Carruba wrote: > > I'm sorry but I cannot resist the following.. um comment / opinion > > > > It really amuses me how many get stressed over whether someone else > > seeking info on something is properly licensed to perform such > > tasks.. I mean really.. get a life and stop policing the list :) > > > > > > Best Regards, > > > > > > Chris Carruba (WQIK389) > > And what makes me mad is how many people don't bother to look to see if > something is legal or not. > > This case, while I have no doubt they are licensed, the question still > remains whether it is legal to repeat one to the other. > > Cross service repeating is not legal. Repeating a business pool channel > to a public safety pool is a no-no. Repeating Part 90 to Part 95 (GMRS) > is a no-no. As long as all freqs involved are public safety freqs, all > is well. And the UHF is at least FB2 or higher. > > This is something he has to look into. >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Please see my post in reply to Mike's message before this getrs too far out of context. Thanks Bryan --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, MCH <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > And loss of a license would adversely affect the ability of any PS > agency to do their job. You would be essentially putting them out of > business. Then, the municipality could come after you for the costs to > pay another municipality to cover their area. After all, they only have > to pay because YOU made them lose their license, and they are under > legal obligation to provide at minimum fire protection (well, at least > in PA they are). > > It can get very expensive very fast. Is it worth losing all your > possessions and perhaps doing some jail time over saving a couple > hundred or even a couple thousand dollars for doing it right? Also don't > forget the suits from anyone adversely affected by the lack of or > delayed response from emergency services. They will be in line to sue > you, too. > > And you better pray it's not the county who loses their license - > affecting PS agencies in the entire county. > > "I'm sorry... the number you have dialed 9 1 1 is no > longer in service. John Smith wanted to save a few bucks." > > Oh, and if you have a ham license? Write that off, too, as well as any > other license you may have held. > > Joe M. > > Mike Pugh wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of > >> service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF > >> frequency. > >> > >> > > I'm glad someone else brought this up. During my 18 years in LMR, I ran > > into a bunch of instances where someone wanted to link this to that, or > > wanted to use a non type accepted radio or wanted to do several other > > less than legal things. My response was always something like make sure > > your station is completely legal if you are not the license holder. > > Don't set your levels by ear, make sure they are set up correctly, even > > if you have to pay to have it done. Why? Well, if you use improperly set > > up equipment on a license you do not hold, such as a volunteer fire > > frequency or the like, you place the license holder in a bad spot should > > your station happen to be found in violation because of improper levels > > or bandwidth. Same way with a converted ham radio, modified to operate > > out of band. The point of my post is to make sure that your actions > > don't adversely affect the licenseholder's license. It may be really > > tough to explain to the county judge in your county how your actions > > caused the county to incur a license infraction with the FCC, or worse, > > a fine, or the loss of a license. > > > > I'd step very carefully here if it were me. In all license services > > except the amateur bands, just because you can wire it together, don't > > assume it is legal > > > > Mike Pugh > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
<> Ok, since it appears there is an inherent soapbox with any thread, here's mine. Just where would I get a REAL budget? Do you want to chip in? I am operating on a purely volunteer basis to try and help the community in the event of a disaster. I am NOT talking 911 service here. I am talking about a group of individuals who have been trained to help when the first responders are overwhelmed. Obviously not everyone knows what a CERT team is, but it is very much like an ARES team, and gets budget money in the same way. We are sponsered by our local Fire Department, which is by the way, a volunteer group in and of itself. Yes, the frequencies we are using fall within the Public Service band, but that is mostly because it is city licensed, not amateaur licensed. I can ask the city to provide me budget for the equipment, and I have. The fire chief had to decide whether to purchase training equipment for his men, or purchase a nice high end repeater with 100% duty cycle that could be used "in the event of a disister" and for communications training excercises. Hmmm, I wonder why he chose to train his men. I did hire a "professional" to install the repeater. For the grant money that we received, we got what we could afford, and know it's limitations. We also hired a professional to purchase our original VHF handy talkies. We ended up with a bunch of Motoroal CP-200 units with NiCad batteries, and $60 price tag on a proprietary BNC antenna adapter (something that other units only charge $10 for). Not a bad little radio if you don't plan on using it for much. And hey, it's a Motorola! But I sure the professional walked away happy. So, back to the original post. I simply asked for some help doing something that I believe can be done. If it can't be done, then fine, tell me I'm stupid and I'll be on my way. If it can, please tell me how, that was all I asked. I didn't ask whether you thought I should or not, although I agree that there are always things that one might not be aware of worth mentioning. There is no way in a forum such as this that I can explain, nor you could understand everything that has already been done to get to this point. If you cannot help answer the question, then please don't waste my time with the incinuating arguments that I don't know what I'm doing. I don't! That is why I came here to begin with! Bryan --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Nate Duehr <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > Mike Pugh wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > >> Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of > >> service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF > >> frequency. > >> > >> > > I'm glad someone else brought this up. During my 18 years in LMR, I ran > > into a bunch of instances where someone wanted to link this to that, or > > wanted to use a non type accepted radio or wanted to do several other > > less than legal things. My response was always something like make sure > > your station is completely legal if you are not the license holder. > > Hell, it'd be nice to always see PUBLIC SAFETY using rigs that are rated > for 100% duty-cycle even. Icom mobiles, just aren't. > > Personally I stay the away from Public Safety "professionals" who need > assistance of any sort -- who are recommending the use of anything > that's not built to take the abuse of 100% duty-cycle for my "safety" -- > and using tax dollars to buy it. (Smaller groups with no budget, okay > maybe... but I carefully explain the problem and recommend they go find > a real budget somewhere.) > > I'll gladly pay for the higher priced real repeaters/radios needed for > Public Safety links from my taxes. ] > > I don't want some mobile blowing up and someone getting hurt or not > having the comms they need to stay safe. > > The stuff I've seen installed by "professionals" sometimes gives me the > willies, especially when I know its tied to life-or-death dispatch > systems for police and fire. > > Those folks in the field deserve better engineering than some of the > junk I've seen installed... > > Nate WY0X >
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
bkcarter33 wrote: > Mike, > > I appreciate your response and concerns. I should have mentioned in > my original post that I am either the the representative of the > license holder (Kaysville City) for these frequencies, or in contact > with the person who is. Sounds like yours is a different story. My impressions of CERT (at least in this area) is that they are a bunch of gung ho folks that want to take matters into their own hands. Sounds like you guys are much more organized than that. As long as you know the pitfalls and how to work around them, sounds like you';ll be fine.. Best of luck. Mike
[Repeater-Builder] Re: How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Yes, all of the licensing is in place for both sides (spent last year doing that). The VHF side is the old city Police frequency and we are not doing anything they weren't doing except for the cross-band to UHF. We won't repeat VHF so I think we are okay. Locations and ERP are all correct. Thanks Bryan --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of > service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF frequency. > > Bill - WA0CBW > > > In a message dated 11/29/2008 1:47:44 P.M. Central Standard Time, > [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: > > My local Community Emergency Response Team (CERT) has recently > obtained a UHF repeater (ICOM CY-F221S). > > It has two ICOM F221S radios linked together in a nice rack mount box. > > It has also been set up with a remote mic and speaker off of the > outputs on the chassis back panel. > The CERT group is licensed for the UHF repeater frequencies and they > are in the public service band. They also have a simplex VHF > frequency in the PS band (old police frequency) licensed. > > They have a number of Motorola HT radios (CP200) that operate on the > simplex VHF frequency. > > They are looking at obtaining additional UHF HT radios in the future > but would like to be able to use the equipment they have if they can > get it to work together. > > I am familiar enough with electronics to be able to follow > directions, but not enough to design anything beyond a basic switch > box. > > I am a network engineer professionally so I am pretty well versed in > those areas, and understand logic control pretty well. > > I am a technician class ham, but don't know a lot about RF as I have > not had that much experience in it. > > I would like to accomplish the following and would love to receive > some guidance from someone who has the knowledge to instruct me: > I would like to set up a cross band link for them from the UHF > repeater, to a VHF radio: > > This would allow someone on the UHF side to transmit to the repeater, > and also cross-band repeat to the VHF side. > > The VHF side would be able to transmit on the VHF simplex frequency > to the cross band side, and it would repeat onto the UHF side. > > I realize that this would NOT provide VHF to VHF repeating, and that > is okay. > > I want to provide a way that the cross band link can be enabled and > disabled by remote DTMF tones so that the bands can be separated when > desired. > > I already have an old Motorola Spectra police radio operating on the > VHF side at the site, and it has a dedicated antenna. It puts out > 110W which is way too much for what we need. > > I was thinking about getting an ICOM F121S radio, Astron power > supply, and ICS basic controller board. > > Using the existing VHF antenna, I would hook up the new ICOM (50 > watts or less). > > Now I just need to tie the ICOM repeater, controller, and new radio > together into a cross band system of sorts. > > Am I on the right track? I need some general guidance that can tell > me, try this, this, and this. Here is what equipment you could use, > and here is how you could tie it together. I have the schematics for > the repeater available to me. > > If I don't want to spend the money for a new ICOM F121S radio, then > what else could I connect easily that I can program and would be able > to get at a reasonable price. > > This is all being done as volunteer service so inexpensive is best, > but I want to avoid "cheap" equipment. > > Thanks for any help you could provide me, > > 73 > > Bryan Carter > KE7GVJ > Kaysville CERT Administration > > > > > > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > **Finally, one site has it all: your friends, your email, your > favorite sites. Try the NEW AOL.com. > (http://www.aol.com/?optin=new- dp&icid=aolcom40vanity&ncid=emlcntaolcom0006) >
[Repeater-Builder] Re: How to set up a basic crossband repeater system in Pub...
Mike, I appreciate your response and concerns. I should have mentioned in my original post that I am either the the representative of the license holder (Kaysville City) for these frequencies, or in contact with the person who is. I have not thus far used any equipment on the public service band that is not typed for that band, at least as far as I know. Nor do I intend to. We hired APCO last year to get everything squared away on the licensing for the repeater and that was a chore and a half. I don't want to do anything to put that in jeapordy. However, if I have all the permissions lined up, which I think I do; have all the licenses in place, which I think I do also, I need to find the best way to accomplish the task. One problem with working with volunteer organizations such as CERT is that everything has to be done, well, volunteer. We were able to get a grant for some money to get the repeater, and pay APCO to do the licensing, but that source has dried up. We have equipment, and people willing to do the work, but need to keep the "professional costs" to a minimum, without creating any problems for the local authorities. If I had $$ to spend, where would be the best place to spend it? My thoughts right now would be to have someone with a Service Monitor check our work after we are ready to plug everything in. I can connect wires, solder, and program without any issues. Even using the proper shielding, etc. if I know what needs to be connected where, and why. I agree that this may not be the norm for a lot of people, but we have done a LOT of work to keep this all within the proper authorizations and permissions. Thanks Bryan --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Mike Pugh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: > > Also check to be sure the FCC license reflects the locations, type of > > service (FB; FB2; or MO) and power levels being proposed for the VHF > > frequency. > > > > > I'm glad someone else brought this up. During my 18 years in LMR, I ran > into a bunch of instances where someone wanted to link this to that, or > wanted to use a non type accepted radio or wanted to do several other > less than legal things. My response was always something like make sure > your station is completely legal if you are not the license holder. > Don't set your levels by ear, make sure they are set up correctly, even > if you have to pay to have it done. Why? Well, if you use improperly set > up equipment on a license you do not hold, such as a volunteer fire > frequency or the like, you place the license holder in a bad spot should > your station happen to be found in violation because of improper levels > or bandwidth. Same way with a converted ham radio, modified to operate > out of band. The point of my post is to make sure that your actions > don't adversely affect the licenseholder's license. It may be really > tough to explain to the county judge in your county how your actions > caused the county to incur a license infraction with the FCC, or worse, > a fine, or the loss of a license. > > I'd step very carefully here if it were me. In all license services > except the amateur bands, just because you can wire it together, don't > assume it is legal > > Mike Pugh >
