Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
We have one in place right now on the 600 KHz split at 25 watts from a MastrII... Very noticeable desense... Not very happy with the setup... But we're doing the best we can with what was on the hill when we started... Oh well lol. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM, ve7fet yahoogro...@woldanski.com wrote: Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
Re the Sinclair RES-LOC Q2220E Duplexer, they make a much better version, the Q2330E model. We use one here on VE3KSR, 146.970 It has 100 Db of Tx - Rx isolation at 500 Khz and midband isolation of 55 Db as opposed to 30 Db in the Q2220. Power rating is 350 watts on each unit. The Q2330E has three cavities on each side. 73 John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: AJ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E We have one in place right now on the 600 KHz split at 25 watts from a MastrII... Very noticeable desense... Not very happy with the setup... But we're doing the best we can with what was on the hill when we started... Oh well lol. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM, ve7fet yahoogro...@woldanski.com wrote: Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
Any suggestions for improving the situation with our existing Q2220E duplexer? We could turn the P/A down even further, but there's not much more room to work with with this 40 watt P/A from it's current 25 watt level without causing spurs... On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.netwrote: *Re the Sinclair RES-LOC Q2220E Duplexer, they make a much better version, * *the Q2330E model.* ** * We use one here on VE3KSR, 146.970* ** *It has 100 Db of Tx - Rx isolation at 500 Khz and midband isolation of 55 Db* *as opposed to 30 Db in the Q2220.* ** *Power rating is 350 watts on each unit.* ** *The Q2330E** has three cavities on each side.* ** *73 John VE3AMZ* ** ** ** ** ** ** ** - Original Message - *From:* AJ aj.grant...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:19 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E We have one in place right now on the 600 KHz split at 25 watts from a MastrII... Very noticeable desense... Not very happy with the setup... But we're doing the best we can with what was on the hill when we started... Oh well lol. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM, ve7fet yahoogro...@woldanski.comwrote: Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
AJ, the only suggestion that I have is to add a regular cavity on each side if you have some availablethat 2220 is probably never going to work very well at 600 Khz. If your PA is causing spursput an antenna tuner on the output of the TX between the TX and the Duplexer, and tune it for minimum VSWR...that should clean it up GE did this with a device they called a Z Matcher. John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: AJ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 7:35 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E Any suggestions for improving the situation with our existing Q2220E duplexer? We could turn the P/A down even further, but there's not much more room to work with with this 40 watt P/A from it's current 25 watt level without causing spurs... On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.net wrote: Re the Sinclair RES-LOC Q2220E Duplexer, they make a much better version, the Q2330E model. We use one here on VE3KSR, 146.970 It has 100 Db of Tx - Rx isolation at 500 Khz and midband isolation of 55 Db as opposed to 30 Db in the Q2220. Power rating is 350 watts on each unit. The Q2330E has three cavities on each side. 73 John VE3AMZ - Original Message - From: AJ To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:19 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E We have one in place right now on the 600 KHz split at 25 watts from a MastrII... Very noticeable desense... Not very happy with the setup... But we're doing the best we can with what was on the hill when we started... Oh well lol. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM, ve7fet yahoogro...@woldanski.com wrote: Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
If you want it to work well, then replace the Q2220E with a better duplexer. If you are willing to accept a compromise in performance, then continue using it and add extra cavities onto it. -- Original Message -- Received: Wed, 25 Mar 2009 04:40:17 PM PDT From: AJ aj.grant...@gmail.com To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E Any suggestions for improving the situation with our existing Q2220E duplexer? We could turn the P/A down even further, but there's not much more room to work with with this 40 watt P/A from it's current 25 watt level without causing spurs... On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 3:44 PM, John J. Riddell ve3...@earthlink.netwrote: *Re the Sinclair RES-LOC Q2220E Duplexer, they make a much better version, * *the Q2330E model.* ** * We use one here on VE3KSR, 146.970* ** *It has 100 Db of Tx - Rx isolation at 500 Khz and midband isolation of 55 Db* *as opposed to 30 Db in the Q2220.* ** *Power rating is 350 watts on each unit.* ** *The Q2330E** has three cavities on each side.* ** *73 John VE3AMZ* ** ** ** ** ** ** ** - Original Message - *From:* AJ aj.grant...@gmail.com *To:* Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com *Sent:* Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:19 PM *Subject:* Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E We have one in place right now on the 600 KHz split at 25 watts from a MastrII... Very noticeable desense... Not very happy with the setup... But we're doing the best we can with what was on the hill when we started... Oh well lol. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM, ve7fet yahoogro...@woldanski.comwrote: Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
Are you using the PM exciter or PLL exciter on the M2? If PM, switching to PLL will reduce the transmitter noise supression requirement of your duplexer by 22 dB. Otherwise, your best bet is to add another pass/reject cavity to each side of the duplexer closest to the repeater equipment (i.e. don't add new cavities connected to antenna tee). --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:20 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E We have one in place right now on the 600 KHz split at 25 watts from a MastrII... Very noticeable desense... Not very happy with the setup... But we're doing the best we can with what was on the hill when we started... Oh well lol. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM, ve7fet yahoogro...@woldanski.com mailto:yahoogro...@woldanski.com wrote: Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com , Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1970 - Release Date: 03/25/09 07:16:00
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
Currently using the PM exciter - haven't had a chance to track down a PLL exciter yet. Didn't realize the noise supression figures were that different - Wow... The receiver I currently has (as built, still surveying the system we've inherited) the UHS pre-amp in place... Guessing that isn't helping things much either LOL :) On Wed, Mar 25, 2009 at 6:01 PM, Jeff DePolo j...@broadsci.com wrote: Are you using the PM exciter or PLL exciter on the M2? If PM, switching to PLL will reduce the transmitter noise supression requirement of your duplexer by 22 dB. Otherwise, your best bet is to add another pass/reject cavity to each side of the duplexer closest to the repeater equipment (i.e. don't add new cavities connected to antenna tee). --- Jeff WN3A -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of AJ Sent: Wednesday, March 25, 2009 4:20 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E We have one in place right now on the 600 KHz split at 25 watts from a MastrII... Very noticeable desense... Not very happy with the setup... But we're doing the best we can with what was on the hill when we started... Oh well lol. On Tue, Mar 24, 2009 at 12:39 PM, ve7fet yahoogro...@woldanski.com yahoogroups%40woldanski.com mailto: yahoogro...@woldanski.com yahoogroups%40woldanski.com wrote: Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.comRepeater-Builder%2540yahoogroups.com , Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted. No virus found in this incoming message. Checked by AVG - www.avg.com Version: 8.0.238 / Virus Database: 270.11.3/1970 - Release Date: 03/25/09 07:16:00
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
Actually, the comment below isn't quite true. The Q2220E is a Res-Lok duplexer, but there are no machined coupling ports between the cavities. I just took the loops out of one to confirm. The coupling between the cavities is a function of the pickup loop inside the cavity, and the coax between them. However, in the C2034 type Res-Lok combiners, there ARE coupling ports machined between the bandpass section cavities (confirmed that too). Of interesting note on the Q2220E, the docs from Sincliar show two different harnesses available, presumably one for high split, and one for low. I have two Q2220E's here, one factory 143/148 and the other 152/157. They both have the same harness on them (320mm inter-cavity of RG400), and the pickup loops are the same size too (110mm). If you run the numbers for 320mm and a velocity factor of 0.695, you get a center frequency for the harness of 163MHz. If you wanted to optimize the tuning for the best response in the ham band, you may want to consider re-building the harness and changing the inter-cavity lengths to 355mm. I wouldn't change the lengths of the pickup loops as that is going to significantly change the response. Also note, the Q2220E makes a good candidate to modify for 220MHz... just ask Dave Cameron... http://www.irlp.net/duplexer Cheers! Lee --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Eric Lemmon wb6...@... wrote: Part of the problem is that the Q2220E duplexer uses the Res-Lok design, wherein the coupling between cavities of each pair is via a machined port between them, rather than a cabled coupling loop that can be adjusted.
[Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
Yes, but we modified/replaced the loops in the cavities to get better performance. No changes were made to the harness as I recall. I don't recall the Pass/Rejectfigures at the moment (but they were comparable to other 4 cavity 2 mtr. duplexersor slightly better, but the duplexer has been operating on the K4SLB 2 mtr. rptr. in Kissimmee Fl for the last year and a half. You'll need access to a service monitor with a tracking generator at least to make the mod. It's a reasonably simple mod. and all that was required was some #14 Ga. bare copper wire, a soldering iron and your time and access to the SM. Other may have different ideas or suggestions. Doug N3DAB --- In Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com, Terry wx3m.te...@... wrote: Does anyone have experience using this model on 2 meters? Do they provide enough practical isolation for single antenna, 600kc split? (Sinclair Q2220E 4 Cavity VHF BpBr Repeater)
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E
Is it possible to provide any more details in regard to the mod you made? Thanks, Jim _ From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:repeater-buil...@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of n3dab Sent: Monday, March 23, 2009 12:45 PM To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Re: Sinclair Q2220E Yes, but we modified/replaced the loops in the cavities to get better performance. No changes were made to the harness as I recall. I don't recall the Pass/Rejectfigures at the moment (but they were comparable to other 4 cavity 2 mtr. duplexersor slightly better, but the duplexer has been operating on the K4SLB 2 mtr. rptr. in Kissimmee Fl for the last year and a half. You'll need access to a service monitor with a tracking generator at least to make the mod. It's a reasonably simple mod. and all that was required was some #14 Ga. bare copper wire, a soldering iron and your time and access to the SM. Other may have different ideas or suggestions. Doug N3DAB --- In Repeater-Builder@ mailto:Repeater-Builder%40yahoogroups.com yahoogroups.com, Terry wx3m.te...@... wrote: Does anyone have experience using this model on 2 meters? Do they provide enough practical isolation for single antenna, 600kc split? (Sinclair Q2220E 4 Cavity VHF BpBr Repeater)
