RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Kevin, I just realized your direct e-mail or anyone's is no longer in the post. I would have sent this direct. I was just going to comment on your clarification. Funny I read your first post and understood it as you clarified it. It was not until I read your clarification that I noticed the original post was less clear than the re-post. Oh heck after rereading what I said I think I have Made no sense. Thank you for your continued attention to detail! Now I will go get more coffee! Kevin King SCSA BSCIS ARS KC6OVD GMRS KAG0378 EIEIO 2722 Acworth Georgia -Original Message-From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]On Behalf Of Kevin CusterSent: Saturday, June 04, 2005 9:13 AMTo: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSubject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 DuplexerKevin Custer wrote: The notch spacing from the pass is determined by the length of the center conductor in the notch stubs. After re-reading this, this was not stated as I had intended.The notch adjustment "range" is determined by the length of center conductor rod, the exact notch spacing is determined by the presence of how much dielectric exists in the tube (fine adjustment). The combination of the two sets the notch spacing from the pass.Sorry for the possible confusion...Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Kevin Custer wrote: The notch spacing from the pass is determined by the length of the center conductor in the notch stubs. After re-reading this, this was not stated as I had intended. The notch adjustment "range" is determined by the length of center conductor rod, the exact notch spacing is determined by the presence of how much dielectric exists in the tube (fine adjustment). The combination of the two sets the notch spacing from the pass. Sorry for the possible confusion... Kevin Custer Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Rob Martin wrote: All Today I have spent a couple of hours sweeping the cavities and come to the conclusion that they are all high pass low reject. (Originally of tx152 & rx158) Looking at the cavities 25mhz either side of my desired frequency RX145.1625Mhz TX 145.7625Mhz I can a second notch but this never comes within 2Mhz of the pass with the invar rod all the way in. They tune perfectly for pass high notch low. So it looks like I have a set of useless cavities unless anyone knows what the physical difference is between the High Pass Low Reject and High Reject Low Pass. Can I make any modifications? The duplexer was likely set up as a "wide spaced' unit since you have passed the original frequencies along. The notch spacing from the pass is determined by the length of the center conductor in the notch stubs. These center conductors will likely need made longer to get the spacing closer. This center conductor is usually simply a length of brass rod soldered into the connector. Also, depending on the depth of the line boring in the dielectric rod, it too (the depth of the bore) might need to be deepened, but try the rod lengthening first. Let us know how you make out. Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
All Today I have spent a couple of hours sweeping the cavities and come to the conclusion that they are all high pass low reject. (Originally of tx152 & rx158) Looking at the cavities 25mhz either side of my desired frequency RX145.1625Mhz TX 145.7625Mhz I can a second notch but this never comes within 2Mhz of the pass with the invar rod all the way in. They tune perfectly for pass high notch low. So it looks like I have a set of useless cavities unless anyone knows what the physical difference is between the High Pass Low Reject and High Reject Low Pass. Can I make any modifications? Bob G6CKK -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: 03 June 2005 12:51 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer m1ror wrote: Hello All This is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it to the list. I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144-174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to 145Mhz.The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching loom and still the same result.Has any body played with these and could offer any advice? Have him swap the ports and try again, in other words, tune the duplexer backwards from the way it is presently tuned using the opposite sides for the receiver and transmitter. Minimum frequency separation happens with the rods all the way in, which leads me to believe he is attempting to tune the duplexer upside down, on the 'wrong' notch; there are two notches, as explained below This article explains the basic principal for the Wacom WP-641 and 639 style pass notch network. While specifically written about the 641, the effects are the same for the 639, however, the notch depth won't be as deep with the 639 as what is stated in the article: Complete tuning directions are available from this page: If you still encounter difficulty after attempting the switch-a-roo, email us back Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Kevin Thanks for the explanation this all makes sense now. I’ll be playing later today and I’ll post my findings. Thanks once again for the pointers Rob -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: 03 June 2005 23:27 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer Hi Rob, Rob Martin wrote: Kevin Thanks for tips, I had download the VHF tune up PDF but not the other pdf. I was surprised he had such problems as I had bought two sets of duplexers, one was a DB products until which he said failed as they had 2 notches and the second set being the wacom which he said wouldn’t tune down. When you say tune them upside down could you explain a little further for me as this is my first attempt to put a repeater on air. The Wacom WP-639 is a BpBr design, meaning Band Pass - Band Reject. The duplexer is specifically built to pass a particular frequency, and reject another. The components of the duplexer determine if the notch falls above or below the pass frequency. In the case of a regular duplexer, one side is HPLR (high pass low reject) and the other is LPHR (low pass high reject). Many times, from the factory, a duplexer has its ports marked "Transmitter" and "Receiver", but those terms are meaningless unless the duplexer is used in the same band segment as it was tuned from the factory. Let's look at it this way, say you have a repeater on 146.625 minus 600 kHz. This repeater would be HPLR on the transmitter and LPHR on the receiver. Follow me? Now, lets look at 147.195 plus 600 kHz. This repeater would be LPHR on the transmitter and HPLR on the receiver, or exactly opposite. This means if you bought a duplexer that was originally built for 146.625 - and retuned it to 147.195 +, you'd have to ignore the references to port identification "TX" and "RX" and connect them inversely. If you tried to tune the HPLR to LPHR, the duplexer wouldn't tune; it would likely be more lossy on the pass and the notches wouldn't fall into place. (isn't that what he's complaining about?) This is why I hate the reference (especially on a 2 meter duplexer) of Transmitter and Receiver ports, as HPLR and LPHR always make sense, no matter frequency or orientation of the repeater split. As I understood all the cavities are the same or are there two types? Two types, HPLR and LPHR Also we have made our only cables to join the units together using RG214. I’m assuming all the cables should be ¼ taking into account the velocity factor or the cable? The cabling might have to be changed to optimize the notch depths, but he needs to get a little closer before worrying about that. Bob -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: 03 June 2005 12:51 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer m1ror wrote: Hello All This is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it to the list. I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144-174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to 145Mhz.The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching loom and still the same result.Has any body played with these and could offer any advice? Have him swap the ports and try again, in other words, tune the duplexer backwards from the way it is presently tuned using the opposite sides for the receiver and transmitter. Minimum frequency separation happens with the rods all the way in, which leads me to believe he is attempting to tune the duplexer upside down, on the 'wrong' notch; there are two notches, as explained below This article explains the basic principal for the Wacom WP-641 and 639 style pass notch network. While specifically written about the 641, the effects are the same for the 639, however, the notch depth won't be as deep with the 639 as what is stated in the article: Complete tuning directions are available from this page: If you still encounter difficulty after attempting the switch-a-roo, email us back Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
The inner conductor of the capacitors needs to be lengthened and the cables changed to the appropriate length will help signifigantly. On 6/3/05, Kevin Custer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi Rob, > > Rob Martin wrote: > > > > Kevin > > > > Thanks for tips, I had download the VHF tune up PDF but not the other pdf. > > I was surprised he had such problems as I had bought two sets of duplexers, > one was a DB products until which he said failed as they had 2 notches and > the second set being the wacom which he said wouldn't tune down. > > > > When you say tune them upside down could you explain a little further for me > as this is my first attempt to put a repeater on air. > The Wacom WP-639 is a BpBr design, meaning Band Pass - Band Reject. The > duplexer is specifically built to pass a particular frequency, and reject > another. The components of the duplexer determine if the notch falls above > or below the pass frequency. In the case of a regular duplexer, one side is > HPLR (high pass low reject) and the other is LPHR (low pass high reject). > Many times, from the factory, a duplexer has its ports marked "Transmitter" > and "Receiver", but those terms are meaningless unless the duplexer is used > in the same band segment as it was tuned from the factory. Let's look at it > this way, say you have a repeater on 146.625 minus 600 kHz. This repeater > would be HPLR on the transmitter and LPHR on the receiver. Follow me? > Now, lets look at 147.195 plus 600 kHz. This repeater would be LPHR on the > transmitter and HPLR on the receiver, or exactly opposite. This means if > you bought a duplexer that was originally built for 146.625 - and retuned it > to 147.195 +, you'd have to ignore the references to port identification > "TX" and "RX" and connect them inversely. If you tried to tune the HPLR to > LPHR, the duplexer wouldn't tune; it would likely be more lossy on the pass > and the notches wouldn't fall into place. (isn't that what he's complaining > about?) > > This is why I hate the reference (especially on a 2 meter duplexer) of > Transmitter and Receiver ports, as HPLR and LPHR always make sense, no > matter frequency or orientation of the repeater split. > > > > > > > As I understood all the cavities are the same or are there two types? > Two types, HPLR and LPHR > > > > > Also we have made our only cables to join the units together using RG214. > I'm assuming all the cables should be ¼ taking into account the velocity > factor or the cable? > The cabling might have to be changed to optimize the notch depths, but he > needs to get a little closer before worrying about that. > > > > > > > > Bob > > > > -Original Message- > From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of > Kevin Custer > Sent: 03 June 2005 12:51 > To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com > Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer > > > > > > m1ror wrote: Hello All > > This is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it > to the list. > > I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144- > 174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted > to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to > 145Mhz. > The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz > with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching > loom and still the same result. > Has any body played with these and could offer any advice? > > > > Have him swap the ports and try again, in other words, tune the duplexer > backwards from the way it is presently tuned using the opposite sides for > the receiver and transmitter. Minimum frequency separation happens with the > rods all the way in, which leads me to believe he is attempting to tune the > duplexer upside down, on the 'wrong' notch; there are two notches, as > explained below > > This article explains the basic principal for the Wacom WP-641 and 639 > style pass notch network. While specifically written about the 641, the > effects are the same for the 639, however, the notch depth won't be as deep > with the 639 as what is stated in the article: > <http://www.repeater-builder.com/wacom/wacombpbrnotes.html> > > Complete tuning directions are available from this page: > <http://www.repeater-builder.com/wacom/wp6xxVHFtuninginstructions.pdf> > > If you still
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Hi Rob, Rob Martin wrote: Kevin Thanks for tips, I had download the VHF tune up PDF but not the other pdf. I was surprised he had such problems as I had bought two sets of duplexers, one was a DB products until which he said failed as they had 2 notches and the second set being the wacom which he said wouldn’t tune down. When you say tune them upside down could you explain a little further for me as this is my first attempt to put a repeater on air. The Wacom WP-639 is a BpBr design, meaning Band Pass - Band Reject. The duplexer is specifically built to pass a particular frequency, and reject another. The components of the duplexer determine if the notch falls above or below the pass frequency. In the case of a regular duplexer, one side is HPLR (high pass low reject) and the other is LPHR (low pass high reject). Many times, from the factory, a duplexer has its ports marked "Transmitter" and "Receiver", but those terms are meaningless unless the duplexer is used in the same band segment as it was tuned from the factory. Let's look at it this way, say you have a repeater on 146.625 minus 600 kHz. This repeater would be HPLR on the transmitter and LPHR on the receiver. Follow me? Now, lets look at 147.195 plus 600 kHz. This repeater would be LPHR on the transmitter and HPLR on the receiver, or exactly opposite. This means if you bought a duplexer that was originally built for 146.625 - and retuned it to 147.195 +, you'd have to ignore the references to port identification "TX" and "RX" and connect them inversely. If you tried to tune the HPLR to LPHR, the duplexer wouldn't tune; it would likely be more lossy on the pass and the notches wouldn't fall into place. (isn't that what he's complaining about?) This is why I hate the reference (especially on a 2 meter duplexer) of Transmitter and Receiver ports, as HPLR and LPHR always make sense, no matter frequency or orientation of the repeater split. As I understood all the cavities are the same or are there two types? Two types, HPLR and LPHR Also we have made our only cables to join the units together using RG214. I’m assuming all the cables should be ¼ taking into account the velocity factor or the cable? The cabling might have to be changed to optimize the notch depths, but he needs to get a little closer before worrying about that. Bob -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: 03 June 2005 12:51 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer m1ror wrote: Hello All This is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it to the list. I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144- 174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to 145Mhz. The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching loom and still the same result. Has any body played with these and could offer any advice? Have him swap the ports and try again, in other words, tune the duplexer backwards from the way it is presently tuned using the opposite sides for the receiver and transmitter. Minimum frequency separation happens with the rods all the way in, which leads me to believe he is attempting to tune the duplexer upside down, on the 'wrong' notch; there are two notches, as explained below This article explains the basic principal for the Wacom WP-641 and 639 style pass notch network. While specifically written about the 641, the effects are the same for the 639, however, the notch depth won't be as deep with the 639 as what is stated in the article: Complete tuning directions are available from this page: If you still encounter difficulty after attempting the switch-a-roo, email us back Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Frazer I don’t have a call book and could not find your email address as it was protected. Could you email me directly with a contact number [EMAIL PROTECTED] Bob -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Fraser Stuart Sent: 03 June 2005 13:51 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer Hi Bob Re filters if you want a hand give me a call,, rgds Fraser G8FEZ (in the book) m1ror <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello All This is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it to the list. I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144- 174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to 145Mhz. The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching loom and still the same result. Has any body played with these and could offer any advice? Bob G6CKK Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
RE: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Kevin Thanks for tips, I had download the VHF tune up PDF but not the other pdf. I was surprised he had such problems as I had bought two sets of duplexers, one was a DB products until which he said failed as they had 2 notches and the second set being the wacom which he said wouldn’t tune down. When you say tune them upside down could you explain a little further for me as this is my first attempt to put a repeater on air. As I understood all the cavities are the same or are there two types? Also we have made our only cables to join the units together using RG214. I’m assuming all the cables should be ¼ taking into account the velocity factor or the cable? Bob -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Kevin Custer Sent: 03 June 2005 12:51 To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer m1ror wrote: Hello All This is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it to the list. I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144-174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to 145Mhz.The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching loom and still the same result.Has any body played with these and could offer any advice? Have him swap the ports and try again, in other words, tune the duplexer backwards from the way it is presently tuned using the opposite sides for the receiver and transmitter. Minimum frequency separation happens with the rods all the way in, which leads me to believe he is attempting to tune the duplexer upside down, on the 'wrong' notch; there are two notches, as explained below This article explains the basic principal for the Wacom WP-641 and 639 style pass notch network. While specifically written about the 641, the effects are the same for the 639, however, the notch depth won't be as deep with the 639 as what is stated in the article: Complete tuning directions are available from this page: If you still encounter difficulty after attempting the switch-a-roo, email us back Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
Hi Bob Re filters if you want a hand give me a call,, rgds Fraser G8FEZ (in the book)m1ror <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: Hello AllThis is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it to the list.I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144-174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to 145Mhz.The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching loom and still the same result.Has any body played with these and could offer any advice?Bob G6CKKYahoo! Groups Links<*> To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/<*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED]<*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to:http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/ Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Help with Wacom WP-639 Duplexer
m1ror wrote: Hello All This is my second posting but I'm not sure if my first attempt made it to the list. I bought a set of what appear to be good condition Wacom WP-639 (144- 174Mhz) Duplexers originally tuned for 156Mhz. A friend has attempted to align the filters but is having problem aligning the notch down to 145Mhz. The problem he tells me is he can only get the notch down to 148Mhz with the Invar rods pushed all the way in. He has made up new patching loom and still the same result. Has any body played with these and could offer any advice? Have him swap the ports and try again, in other words, tune the duplexer backwards from the way it is presently tuned using the opposite sides for the receiver and transmitter. Minimum frequency separation happens with the rods all the way in, which leads me to believe he is attempting to tune the duplexer upside down, on the 'wrong' notch; there are two notches, as explained below This article explains the basic principal for the Wacom WP-641 and 639 style pass notch network. While specifically written about the 641, the effects are the same for the 639, however, the notch depth won't be as deep with the 639 as what is stated in the article: Complete tuning directions are available from this page: If you still encounter difficulty after attempting the switch-a-roo, email us back Kevin Yahoo! Groups Links To visit your group on the web, go to:http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Repeater-Builder/ To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
