RE: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
Nate - I still remember the album sleeve for the Rolling Stones' Let It Bleed album... Lower right corner: THIS RECORD SHOULD BE PLAYED LOUD Mark - N9WYS -Original Message- From: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com On Behalf Of Nate Duehr Bob M. wrote: He was into the hard rock stuff in the 80s and his hearing has been poor since then. (snip) And then of course there's also a bit of that accursed evil rock and roll in my life... I try to keep it turned down, but every once in a while you just have to go with ... I hear if you mix it with a little Chopin and Bach, it all works out okay in the end. (GRIN) If it's too loud, you're too old! Rock on, Nate WY0X
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
Bob M. wrote: He was into the hard rock stuff in the 80s and his hearing has been poor since then. Huh? What'd you say?! In my old age, I'll come by my hearing loss honestly... Even with protection, Lycoming and Continental enginees and slipstream noise inside a spam can from Cessna, Piper, Mooney, or anyone else... is bloody loud. David Clark head-clamps help. The noise canceling varieties are nice, but I don't have those -- and I have been reading where they provide a very false sense of security, since the sound pressure inside the earcups is still as high or higher than outside, the system's just canceling out the waves with out of phase ones. Anyone have any insight into how a canceled wave still has the ability to exert pressure? Odd. And then of course there's also a bit of that accursed evil rock and roll in my life... I try to keep it turned down, but every once in a while you just have to go with ... I hear if you mix it with a little Chopin and Bach, it all works out okay in the end. (GRIN) If it's too loud, you're too old! Rock on, Nate WY0X (It's always such a debate... listen to the same old conversation on the local repeaters again, flip over to the HF bands, or fire up the iPod cable equipped stereo in the Jeep for the 27 mile drive home... sometimes any of the above can lead to quality entertainment... ha! But you gotta have a variety with a commute like mine! AudioBooks ripped into the iPod and Podcasts also help pass the time. Yawn... oh, was I supposed to be driving. Someone wake me up. The Jeep's on autopilot... George is flying.)
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
The people in charge of the repeater 25 kHz away (and on the opposite split) DID contact the guy in charge of the over-deviating repeater. He turned down some of the audio sources, again with no test equipment, but the lack of pre-emphasis/limiting/low-pass-filtering in the transmitter still exists, and signals with a high noise level wreak havoc. Definitely time to bump it up a notch by going to the coordinating body to get some pressure put on this guy. He was into the hard rock stuff in the 80s and his hearing has been poor since then. Bob M. == --- On Tue, 9/16/08, skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: skipp025 [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 12:43 PM Case in point... . Depending on how realistic the repeater owner/op is... you could offer to help. In the case of hard-nose Alpha Hotel types... you might then set out on a paper-work trip that ends up involving the local coordination group leading through to the FCC. Takes time but it does work in some cases A deviation scope shows peaks out to 7 kHz, but a spectrum analyzer shows a much wider bandwidth, almost all of which is high-frequency noise from marginally weak signals that gets amplified way out of proportion to the actual voice audio. You are only concerned with the emissions outside the normal band-width for the standard mode (FM). You do know that's malicious interference, Not until you contact the owner, ask the proper questions and present the situation for his or her response. and he can be shut down? It's been done here! Sure, if you do the proper homework first. The owner might be ignorant and actually appreciate and welcome a second source of technical assistance. For Step-1, be nice and contact the repeater owner with a hello and a smile on your face. cheers, s.
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Bob M. wrote: The people in charge of the repeater 25 kHz away (and on the opposite split) DID contact the guy in charge of the over-deviating repeater. He turned down some of the audio sources, again with no test equipment, but the lack of pre-emphasis/limiting/low-pass-filtering in the transmitter still exists, and signals with a high noise level wreak havoc. Definitely time to bump it up a notch by going to the coordinating body to get some pressure put on this guy. He was into the hard rock stuff in the 80s and his hearing has been poor since then. A few things to keep in mind here: This is just a hobby after all. Not everyone who builts a repeater has a clue about how to operate it, or some of the intense technical knowledge to make it operate correctly when using commercial land-mobile as a model. It seems that no one bothered to tell this gentleman that telephone audio and FM, for the most part, have the same audio bandwidth. Explaining how the reciever works from one end to the other might go a long way as well, as I doubt he is aware that all of his efforts for repeating audio from 20Hz to 20KHz are for naught since his HT and Mobile radios both attenuate everything above three kilohertz. Then again, he may just be an audio nut or former roadie who knows sound and wants to bring those skills to radio. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
Sorta like working in a CB shop? ;^) - Original Message - From: Bob M. To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, September 16, 2008 1:58 PM Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741) ...it became too much of a bother because he just wouldn't leave well-enough alone. Even after adjusting everything to spec, he still tweaked things himself.Recent Activity a.. 10New Members b.. 1New Files Visit Your Group Sell Online Start selling with our award-winning e-commerce tools. Best of Y! Groups Discover groups that are the best of their class. Moderator Central Get answers to your questions about running Y! Groups. .
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Bob M. wrote: We tried all of those suggestions. He turns a few things down, for a while, then when one or two people (with worse hearing or equipment than he) complains, he just turns it back up again, figuring since nobody complained any more, he must have turned it down too far. The main repeater is a brand new (well, now 1 year old) Kenwood that's feeding a 200w amp. If he had left it as it came from the factory and not tweaked and twiddled every setting, we wouldn't be having this discussion since there wouldn't be any over-deviation, just excessive limiting going on, but at least it would be filtered and would peacefully coexist with its neighbors 25 kHz away. I'm lucky; my repeater is only a mile or two away but it's 50 kHz away and with the same in/out relationship, so I don't have any problems. The problem with showing up, equipment in hand, ready and willing to help, is that when I did that one time long ago, I became his resident fix-it man, and he called me for everything, and it became too much of a bother because he just wouldn't leave well-enough alone. Even after adjusting everything to spec, he still tweaked things himself. So no one volunteers like that any more. They get sucked in and then there's no way out. Then perhaps enforcement is the best way to handle it. I don't know of what else to do other than get a group of hams together and have an intervention: Look, we're not trying to railroad you here, but your repeater is operating way out of spec Unfortunately, he still trusts his ears. We all have that tendency. The best video engineer my father ever met was color-blind. He used the tools at his disposal to set up the video monitors and equipment because he couldn't trust his eyes. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR [EMAIL PROTECTED] But remember, with no superpowers comes no responsibility. --rly
Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741)
About 10 years ago I had a problem where a local packet node (coordinated 10KHz away from my packet node in the same city) was deviating so wide that my node controller was able to decode the callsigns coming from THIER node controller! I used my cushman service monitor and found their node deviating at about +/-9KC!! I notified their tech person and got no response. Then I notified their trustee twice and received unpleasant responses. So then I notified the local coordinating body. The problem was fixed within about 2 weeks. Then I received nasty words from the club pres of that node for not telling him their was a problem. I suggested he find out why thier tech person and thier trustee wouldn't respond. --- On Tue, 9/16/08, Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: Kris Kirby [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Repeater Audio War Stories (Story #741) To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com Date: Tuesday, September 16, 2008, 2:26 PM On Tue, 16 Sep 2008, Bob M. wrote: The people in charge of the repeater 25 kHz away (and on the opposite split) DID contact the guy in charge of the over-deviating repeater. He turned down some of the audio sources, again with no test equipment, but the lack of pre-emphasis/limiting/low-pass-filtering in the transmitter still exists, and signals with a high noise level wreak havoc. Definitely time to bump it up a notch by going to the coordinating body to get some pressure put on this guy. He was into the hard rock stuff in the 80s and his hearing has been poor since then. A few things to keep in mind here: This is just a hobby after all. Not everyone who builts a repeater has a clue about how to operate it, or some of the intense technical knowledge to make it operate correctly when using commercial land-mobile as a model. It seems that no one bothered to tell this gentleman that telephone audio and FM, for the most part, have the same audio bandwidth. Explaining how the reciever works from one end to the other might go a long way as well, as I doubt he is aware that all of his efforts for repeating audio from 20Hz to 20KHz are for naught since his HT and Mobile radios both attenuate everything above three kilohertz. Then again, he may just be an audio nut or former roadie who knows sound and wants to bring those skills to radio. -- Kris Kirby, KE4AHR
