Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies  Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards

2008-07-14 Thread Ron Wright
Wayne,

I've seen some shotty wiring also.  Scares you sometimes thinking what can 
happen especially if the wire used is too small.

One note is from the Philipenes.  There they use, as many other countries do, 
220 VAC, but use the same 110 outlet we use here in the US.  My wife is from 
there and we sent a TV/VCR to her family with a 220 to 110 converter which 
worked well.  Then the converter went bad so they simply plugged the TV into 
their outlet.  Next they were asking about parts for it and where to buy.  I 
told them forget it for it was in house part numbers and little chance of 
finding them.  

73, ron, n9ee/r




>From: Wayne <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 2008/07/14 Mon AM 03:00:56 EDT
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies  Due 
>toElectrocution and Fire Hazards

>  I have seen instances where a light switch to a ceiling fixture was put  
>in the neutral side, nd not the hot side of the line.
>
>  I have also seen where some hams, to save money, were using 120 volt 3  
>prong plugs for their mobile radios. Thinking what would happen if someone  
>else plugged it into a 120 volt outlet, ha ha ha.
>  I also dislike 12 volt light fixtures that take a 12 volt screw in bulb  
>of the same size as a 120 volt light bulb. Took me a while to figure that  
>out on a 5th wheel I had, and putting a 120volt bulb in it would not  
>light. A previous owner had rewired the light over the bathroom sink for  
>120 volts, but using zip cord.
>
>  At one corner of a 10 acre plot, of which I own 1/4, there is an  
>electrical box on a pole, no switches or breakers, that still has 430  
>volts coming into it.
>  they use a lot of supposed 480 volt motors around here for oil well  
>pumps. They wire two transformer outputs in series to get the 480. Some,  
>but not all, meter boxes are marked 480 volts.
>
>  I see a lot of poor wiring around this area. I even found one outlet in  
>this house, one of only two left, that had the white and black wires  
>reversed. I redid that before I hooke that line up to a new breaker panel.  
>I had to extend the wire, but did that in a box to be sure of what I had.
>  I always tend to check each outlet to be sure it is wired correctly.
>  Most of the ceiling lights that had been in here were poorly wired with  
>no boxes at the fixtures. I'm putting in boxes where I will be wiring  
>ceiling/wall fixtures.
>  It doesn't take that much to do a proper wiring job, compared to a lousy  
>jb with possible hazards...
>  YMMV
>
>  Wayne WA2YNE
>
>
>On Sat, 05 Jul 2008 01:39:50 -0500, Bruce Bagwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>  
>wrote:
>
>>
>>
>> There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically  
>> anywhere.
>>
>> Many times I have seen outlets "Converted" to 3 wire from two, only to  
>> find all they did was "ground" from the neutral wire.  That means I get  
>> all kinds of RFI and if the "Ground" ever dropped, it would be HOT just  
>> from the return from the light bulb or whatever.
>>
>> BTW, those cheap "Testers" will NOT detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse!
>>
>> If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground to your Meter and find what  
>> wires are "Hot"
>>
>> I remember A house I rented, every time I touched the light  
>> switch/outlet in the garage I got "tickled"
>> Glad I knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact,  
>> and I would not be typing this right now!
>> Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK!
>>
>> Always remember, just because the outlet is "Grounded" does not mean it  
>> is really "Grounded"  Verify!
>>
>> Stay safe out there!
>>
>> Bruce Bagwell
>> KE5TPN
>>
>-- 
>Using Opera's revolutionary e-mail client: http://www.opera.com/mail/
>
>
>
>
>
>Yahoo! Groups Links
>
>
>

Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.




Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies  Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards

2008-07-06 Thread Ron Wright
Dave,

This is a code requirement here in my county and think all of Florida.

The code requirements for building is a county/state issue and vary.  Most use 
the NEC code.  Many have additional codes such as having wind resistance 
building.  The way homes are constructed in the north would not be allowed in 
Florida mainly due to the wind.  This is why we see so much concrete block 
construction with lots of requirements for attaching to foundation and roof 
securing.  Just different part of the US.

Same with electric code.  For various reasons some additional changes are often 
made.  Just because you have a code in your area does not mean it is in all of 
US.  It is county mostly with some state codes.  In my county there were NO 
building codes until the 70s.  Can you believe this.

73, ron, n9ee/r





>From: Dave <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 11:43:50 EDT
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies  Due 
>toElectrocution and Fire Hazards

>
>Where is the requirement for running a separate feed to EACH OUTLET 
>REQUIRED?  Not in the US>  A "dedicated out is required for certain 
>special situations but not for each outlet elsewhere.  There are certain 
>other requirements such as GFCI and AFCI. But, certainly no dedicated 
>feeder for each out.
>
>Ron Wright wrote:
>> Gary,
>>
>> I've noticed in panels the safety ground and neutral go to a different buss 
>> bar.  I had thought maybe because the neutral was sometimes, not now to 
>> code, smaller than the neutral.  However, both got connected to the panel 
>> case.  One can Ohm out neutral to safety and only see the resistance in the 
>> wiring to/from the panel.  However, as you well know, should not be 
>> considered the same.
>>
>> In most plastic coated wireing I see today the safety wire is green coated, 
>> but some is still bare as you said.  I've seen lots of this.
>>
>> Now in our county following NEC code the safety wire has to be same size as 
>> neutral . No more of the 14-2 w/G cable, but 14-3 one being safety ground 
>> color or bare.   Also they are doing something different, a separate set of 
>> wires must be ran between panel and each outlet...no more of one wire to one 
>> outlet and then from here to another outlet, etc.  Can you imagine the extra 
>> cost and labor.  Not sure what they do at the breaker panel...put in 
>> separate breaker for each outlet.  Not sure if this NEC code or something to 
>> do with the hurricane code we have here in Florida.  We do lots of 
>> construction very different here, hi.
>>
>> 73, ron, n9ee/r
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>>> From: Gary Glaenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>>> Date: 2008/07/06 Sun AM 10:19:49 EDT
>>> To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>>> Subject: Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies  
>>> Due toElectrocution and Fire Hazards
>>> 
>>
>>   
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> I don't know what part of the US you live in, but around here (western IL)
>>> the grounding conductor ('safety ground') is bare in Romex-type cable, and
>>> may or may not be insulated in conduit, and usually one size smaller than
>>> the 'main' conductors.
>>>
>>> Also, the GC goes to one bus-bar, the neutral to another, the GC bus-bar is
>>> bonded ot the neutral at the SERVICE panel (incoming power, the one with the
>>> 'Main' braker that shuts off all power), but is kept separate in all
>>> sub-panels, and from the sub-panel(s) there must be a separate GC (coded
>>> green) run back to the GC bus-bar in the service panel.
>>>
>>> 
>>
>>
>> Ron Wright, N9EE
>> 727-376-6575
>> MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
>> Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
>> No tone, all are welcome.
>>
>>
>>
>> 
>>
>>
>>
>> Yahoo! Groups Links
>>
>>
>>
>>   
>
>   
> 


Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.




Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies  Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards

2008-07-05 Thread Ron Wright
The cheap outlet checkers will detect reversal of the hot and neutral, but 
cannot detect reverse of the neutral and safety ground due to they both connect 
to the same point in the power panel.

The checkers will detect if no safety ground is present.

73, ron, n9ee/r




>From: Bruce Bagwell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 02:39:50 EDT
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies  Due 
>toElectrocution and Fire Hazards

>
>  There are many makes of voltage sensing sticks one can get basically 
>anywhere. Many times I have seen outlets "Converted" to 3 wire from two, only 
>to find all they did was "ground" from the neutral wire.  That means I get all 
>kinds of RFI and if the "Ground" ever dropped, it would be HOT just from the 
>return from the light bulb or whatever. BTW, those cheap "Testers" will NOT 
>detect HOT/Ground/Neutral Reverse! If in doubt, run a wire from a known ground 
>to your Meter and find what wires are "Hot" I remember A house I rented, every 
>time I touched the light switch/outlet in the garage I got "tickled"Glad I 
>knew what was going on or else I might have made full contact, and I would not 
>be typing this right now!Swapped the HOT/Neutral/Ground and all was OK! Always 
>remember, just because the outlet is "Grounded" does not mean it is really 
>"Grounded"  Verify! Stay safe out there! Bruce Bagwell
>KE5TPN If You Can Read This,
>Thank A Teacher. If You Are Reading This in ENGLISH,
>Thank A Veteran or Current Soldier! Support Our Troops!
>For Without Them,
>We Have No Support at All!
>
>
>>
>> The inspector I used checked every outlet in the house, & found one in
>the 
>> garage that had line & neutral reversed. It is tagged as such, & is now 
>> only used with fully insulated loads such as Christmas lights.
>>
>> Bob NO6B
>
>My brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three wire
>plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the plugs.
>
>It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up gizmo.
>
>I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around electricity.
>http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit
>edStates
>
>Best $20.00 I spent.
>
>tom n8ie
>
>   
> 


Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.




Re: Re: [Repeater-Builder ] Re: RadioShack Recalls P ower Supplies  Due toElec trocution and Fire Hazards

2008-07-05 Thread Ron Wright
I believe RS has to take the supply back and rewire or fix it.  It sounds like 
an easy thing to do...just reverse the neutral and safety ground as the plug 
enters the supply.

If I had a number of these I would take back to RS and have them do it.  They 
should put a label on it stating the mod had been done.

I wonder if there are any charges such as return shipping charges.

Although one can say if your outlet is wire correctly there would not be a 
problem.  This is true, but with the millions of outlets in the world and maybe 
one in your own home you have not yet tried with the RS supply I would 
definitly want it wired correctly.

I wonder how this happened.  I am sure the supply is UL listed (no such thing 
as US approved) so looks like something got over looked or a change occured at 
RS manufacturing.

In the US the safety ground and neutral both go back to the same place in the 
power panel (fuse box).  Most of the time both are insulated with different 
color wires and often the neutral is a size larger wire (not allowed with new 
code), but with the RS supply this wire size would not be a problem.

73, ron, n9ee/r




>From: Gary Glaenzer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>Date: 2008/07/05 Sat AM 08:21:43 EDT
>To: Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.com
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re: RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies  Due 
>toElectrocution and Fire Hazards

>
>I must have a half-dozen of 
>these http://www.mytoolstore.com/ideal/ide05-08.html  true, they will NOT show 
>ground/neutral reversal, but if your panel is wired correctly, that's a 
>non-issue     - Original Message -   From:  Thomas OliverTo: 
>Repeater-Builder@yahoogroups.comSent: Friday, July 04, 2008 6:30 PM  
>Subject: Re: [Repeater-Builder] Re:   RadioShack Recalls Power Supplies Due 
>toElectrocution and Fire Hazards  
>
>
>
>>
>> The inspector I used checked every outlet in the   house, & found one in
>the 
>> garage that had line & neutral   reversed. It is tagged as such, & is now 
>> only used with fully   insulated loads such as Christmas lights.
>>
>> Bob NO6B
>
>My   brother lived in a house with two wire plugs he changed to three   wire
>plugs. He just jumpered the neutral and ground together on the   plugs.
>
>It fooled the inspector with the little plug in light up   gizmo.
>
>I highly recomend one of these to anyone working around   electricity.
>http://us.fluke.com/usen/products/Fluke+VoltAlert.htm?catalog_name=FlukeUnit
>edStates
>
>Best   $20.00 I spent.
>
>tom n8ie
>
>No virus found in this incoming message.Checked by AVG - http://www.avg.com 
>Version: 8.0.135 / Virus Database: 270.4.5/1533 - Release Date: 7/3/2008 7:19 
>PM 
>  


Ron Wright, N9EE
727-376-6575
MICRO COMPUTER CONCEPTS
Owner 146.64 repeater Tampa Bay, FL
No tone, all are welcome.