Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 11 Jul 2007, at 17:12, Anthony Carlos wrote: > What do you think? I think there's a lot of merit in that idea. I've come across loads of situations where it was not obvious how to write the specs or code so that the code or specs (respectively) are clear and useful. I'm sure they could be distilled to a set of template situations - I'd be happy to submit examples. When people ask what developing with tests is like I tend to say that the difference between using RSpec and writing specs is like the difference between learning how a paintbrush works and learning how to paint a picture. RSpec's easy enough to pick up, but I wish I could point people at a more theoretical how-to that helps with the difficult "how do I spec this?" problems. Ashley ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 11 Jul 2007, at 17:12, Anthony Carlos wrote: > Perhaps we need to bundle "The Elements of RSpec Style" with the > documentation on the website. I'm happy to collect and edit > suggestions. I would like to enthusiastically (albeit fundamentally unhelpfully) voice my support for this idea. The main win of RSpec over Test::Unit is the framework of linguistic constraints it provides to help guide people down the right path, but the main weakness is that it still doesn't go far enough -- most conversations I have with people about BDD are concerned with the continuing struggle to work out what the "right way" to write specs is. Toy examples (cf Stack, Account) are unhelpful in this regard because they demonstrate the common-sense mechanics of RSpec without really delivering any accumulated wisdom about how real specs should look and behave, and that's the hard part to grasp when you're trying to learn this stuff. I realise there's a well-intentioned progressive reticence to preach a dogmatic gospel about how specs should be named, designed and constructed, but as with Rails I believe that people derive genuine comfort and encouragement from being told The One Correct Way when they're starting out, and once they become competent enough to have dissenting opinions of their own they rarely seem to have a problem with enacting them. There are lots of gems of pragmatic wisdom dotted throughout the rspec-users archives -- yeah, David's "one WHEN/THEN per example" is a great one -- and I think it'd be tremendously useful to collect and promote these as Truth even if no expert quite believes that they are. Cheers, -Tom ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
I think this is a nugget of experience about which it's worth shouting. I've read lots of articles about the theory behind BDD and TDD, but I need(ed) help learning how to phrase and write specs. That is, what to spec and how to write it; what is good style, and what is not so good. I'd love to come up with a guide like "The Elements of Style" by Strunk, White, et. al, which I used in college to really learn how to write. Perhaps we need to bundle "The Elements of RSpec Style" with the documentation on the website. I'm happy to collect and edit suggestions. What do you think? -Anthony On Jul 11, 2007, at 11:06 AM, Ashley Moran wrote: > > On 11 Jul 2007, at 15:00, Pedro Del Gallego wrote: > >> Thats my biggest problem with rspec, (I'm a non english speaker >> working in a German/English environment) It would be great a >> guide or >> a tips list to make our specs more readebles, Something like 10 >> English tips to improve your specs readability ;) > > > Don't think I can come up with 10 off the top of my head but I always > told Pawel to follow the rule "phrase descriptions as GIVEN WHEN > THEN". There's plenty of better examples on this list and elsewhere, > but basically if I have an idea like this: > >A cow prodded with a stick should moo > > I think: >GIVEN="a cow", WHEN="prodded with a stick", THEN="moo" > > and turn it into this code: >describe Cow do > before(:each) do >@cow = Cow.new > end > it 'should say "moo" when sent prod_with_stick' do >@cow.prod_with_stick.should == "moo" > end >end > > It doesn't apply rigidly to every situation, but 90% of the time, if > I keep chanting GIVEN WHEN THEN I write clean, focussed specs. The > rest is mainly vocabulary (although sometimes it can be hard to > phrase something clearly). > > Ashley > ___ > rspec-users mailing list > rspec-users@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 7/11/07, Ashley Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > On 11 Jul 2007, at 15:00, Pedro Del Gallego wrote: > > > Thats my biggest problem with rspec, (I'm a non english speaker > > working in a German/English environment) It would be great a guide or > > a tips list to make our specs more readebles, Something like 10 > > English tips to improve your specs readability ;) > > > Don't think I can come up with 10 off the top of my head but I always > told Pawel to follow the rule "phrase descriptions as GIVEN WHEN > THEN". There's plenty of better examples on this list and elsewhere, > but basically if I have an idea like this: > >A cow prodded with a stick should moo > > I think: >GIVEN="a cow", WHEN="prodded with a stick", THEN="moo" > > and turn it into this code: >describe Cow do > before(:each) do >@cow = Cow.new > end > it 'should say "moo" when sent prod_with_stick' do >@cow.prod_with_stick.should == "moo" > end >end > > It doesn't apply rigidly to every situation, but 90% of the time, if > I keep chanting GIVEN WHEN THEN I write clean, focussed specs. The > rest is mainly vocabulary (although sometimes it can be hard to > phrase something clearly). I've been in that habit too. In general, I want the GIVEN expressed in the String passed to describe and/or before(:each). The WHEN and THEN should be in the example. As Ashley suggests, this isn't 100% of the time, but I find that the more I stick to this the easier it is to grok everything when looking back. Also, I try to stick to one WHEN and one THEN per example. This means that if there are mocks involved, my examples generally look like this: it "should foo when bar" do collaborator.should_receive(:baz) thing.bar end OR it "should foo when bar" do thing.bar thing.baz.should == something end BUT NEVER it "should foo when bar" do collaborator.should_receive(:baz) thing.bar thing.fu.should == something end FWIW. Cheers, David > > Ashley > ___ > rspec-users mailing list > rspec-users@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users > ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 11 Jul 2007, at 15:00, Pedro Del Gallego wrote: > Thats my biggest problem with rspec, (I'm a non english speaker > working in a German/English environment) It would be great a guide or > a tips list to make our specs more readebles, Something like 10 > English tips to improve your specs readability ;) Don't think I can come up with 10 off the top of my head but I always told Pawel to follow the rule "phrase descriptions as GIVEN WHEN THEN". There's plenty of better examples on this list and elsewhere, but basically if I have an idea like this: A cow prodded with a stick should moo I think: GIVEN="a cow", WHEN="prodded with a stick", THEN="moo" and turn it into this code: describe Cow do before(:each) do @cow = Cow.new end it 'should say "moo" when sent prod_with_stick' do @cow.prod_with_stick.should == "moo" end end It doesn't apply rigidly to every situation, but 90% of the time, if I keep chanting GIVEN WHEN THEN I write clean, focussed specs. The rest is mainly vocabulary (although sometimes it can be hard to phrase something clearly). Ashley ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
> We had a Polish guy start here last year (sadly poached by a company > in London now). When I showed him RSpec I told him the thing he > would find hardest was not the spec code, it was the English involved > in writing the descriptions. Might be useful if I followed my own > advice :) Thats my biggest problem with rspec, (I'm a non english speaker working in a German/English environment) It would be great a guide or a tips list to make our specs more readebles, Something like 10 English tips to improve your specs readability ;) -- - Pedro Del Gallego Email : [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 11 Jul 2007, at 14:29, David Chelimsky wrote: > Excellent point. I'm sure the code in each example would be dealing > with a single object, not all objects. We had a Polish guy start here last year (sadly poached by a company in London now). When I showed him RSpec I told him the thing he would find hardest was not the spec code, it was the English involved in writing the descriptions. Might be useful if I followed my own advice :) ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 11 Jul 2007, at 14:25, Wincent Colaiuta wrote: > In a case like this, isn't "All" the same as "any" or even "a", or > even omitting the article entirely? Mmm, I noticed that myself not long after I posted lol. I've already started rewording everything... ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 7/11/07, Wincent Colaiuta <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > El 11/7/2007, a las 12:42, Ashley Moran escribió: > > > I've noticed that I phrase a lot of shared behaviours in plural, eg > > > >describe "All payment_details views" > > > > How about a "they" alias to "it" so you can write > > > >describe "All payment_details views", :shared => true do > > they "should have a card number field" do > ># ... > > end > >end > > > > WDYT? > > In a case like this, isn't "All" the same as "any" or even "a", or > even omitting the article entirely? > > For example: > >describe 'Any payment_details view' do > it 'should have a card number field' do >... > >describe 'A payment_details view' do > it 'should have a card number field' do >... > >describe 'payment_details view' do > it 'should have a card number field' do >... > ># or whatever the class is called >describe PaymentDetailsView do > it 'should have a card number field' do >... Excellent point. I'm sure the code in each example would be dealing with a single object, not all objects. > > Cheers, > Wincent > > > ___ > rspec-users mailing list > rspec-users@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users > ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
El 11/7/2007, a las 12:42, Ashley Moran escribió: > I've noticed that I phrase a lot of shared behaviours in plural, eg > >describe "All payment_details views" > > How about a "they" alias to "it" so you can write > >describe "All payment_details views", :shared => true do > they "should have a card number field" do ># ... > end >end > > WDYT? In a case like this, isn't "All" the same as "any" or even "a", or even omitting the article entirely? For example: describe 'Any payment_details view' do it 'should have a card number field' do ... describe 'A payment_details view' do it 'should have a card number field' do ... describe 'payment_details view' do it 'should have a card number field' do ... # or whatever the class is called describe PaymentDetailsView do it 'should have a card number field' do ... Cheers, Wincent ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 11 Jul 2007, at 13:47, David Chelimsky wrote: >> It should be easy for you to just alias that method locally in >> your project > > +1 > We want to keep things simple. Fair point! ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 7/11/07, aslak hellesoy <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > On 7/11/07, Ashley Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > I've noticed that I phrase a lot of shared behaviours in plural, eg > > > >describe "All payment_details views" > > > > How about a "they" alias to "it" so you can write > > > >describe "All payment_details views", :shared => true do > > they "should have a card number field" do > ># ... > > end > >end > > > > WDYT? > > > > I'm a little worried that If we add this alias, people are going to > want umpteen other aliases like it_should etc. > > It should be easy for you to just alias that method locally in your project +1 We want to keep things simple. > > Aslak > > > Ashley > > > > > > ___ > > rspec-users mailing list > > rspec-users@rubyforge.org > > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users > > > ___ > rspec-users mailing list > rspec-users@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users > ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
Re: [rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
On 7/11/07, Ashley Moran <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I've noticed that I phrase a lot of shared behaviours in plural, eg > >describe "All payment_details views" > > How about a "they" alias to "it" so you can write > >describe "All payment_details views", :shared => true do > they "should have a card number field" do ># ... > end >end > > WDYT? > I'm a little worried that If we add this alias, people are going to want umpteen other aliases like it_should etc. It should be easy for you to just alias that method locally in your project Aslak > Ashley > > > ___ > rspec-users mailing list > rspec-users@rubyforge.org > http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users > ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
[rspec-users] "they" synonym for "it"?
I've noticed that I phrase a lot of shared behaviours in plural, eg describe "All payment_details views" How about a "they" alias to "it" so you can write describe "All payment_details views", :shared => true do they "should have a card number field" do # ... end end WDYT? Ashley ___ rspec-users mailing list rspec-users@rubyforge.org http://rubyforge.org/mailman/listinfo/rspec-users
