[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
Hi, I just want to post to say thanks for all the excellent feedback on the question I asked earlier. I think it is all very valuable, even if some options aren't possible at present. Regarding a native Windows port, such a thing would be wonderful to have, but unfortunately it is *totally impossible* given the resources currently available to the SAGE project, as I think Michael explained very well. Programs like Maple, Mathematica, Magma, and Matlab currently have between 1 and 100 million in operating budget per year, whereas SAGE has maybe $70K, so the options for what we can do are severely constrained I am still very glad expensive options were discussed in this thread. One comment is that I think it's wrong to think Windows users would prefer a native half-way broken partial version of SAGE to a VMware or Virtual-PC based complete 100% working version of SAGE. In fact, I'm fairly certain most Windows users would vastly prefer a 100% working virtualization version of SAGE to something that is half-way broken but native. In fact, most Windows users have no clue at all that they're using Linux when they start SAGE via the vmware machine, and that's fine. I should add that very very little time has been put into the SAGE vmware machine at this point -- certainly far far less than went into the Cygwin version of SAGE. I'm the only one who has put work into the SAGE vmware machine, and I really didn't do much besides install SAGE into ubuntu and write a couple of little scripts. There was going to be a coding sprint project on this at SD4, but that didn't materialize. Thoughts for improving the development model for the sage-vmware (and/or sage-parallels and/or sage-msvirtualpc) machines would be greatly appreciated. Probably the only possible way there will ever be a native (!= Cygwin or Mingw) Windows version of SAGE were if some people formed a dot-com open source mathematics software company, got venture capital, sold service, etc., and were able to hire a team of highly skilled windows programmers for a (few?) years. If anybody who actually understands how SAGE works thinks differently I'd love to hear about it. The suggestion to make a serious major push for good 3d graphics, is clearly difficult but totally doable. I think this would be the best investment of time at present for the greatest return. The lack of good integrated interactive 3d graphics in SAGE is now the main remaining missing functionality. I still think the best solution is a java applet in the notebook and vtk/mayavi for people using the command line. Tim's idea for example nontrivial applications of SAGE is great, and it's supremely practical because the workload is easily distributed: * In SAGE_ROOT/devel/doc/overviews you can find some documents that Josh Kantor and I started, which go in this direction. * This page is also useful for seeing how SAGE is applied: http://sagemath.org/pub.html Aaron's suggestion to make it really easy to run the SAGE notebook publicly through apachessl sort of scares me because running the SAGE notebook publicly in anything but a chroot jail is inviting disaster, and that will never change. This is definitely not ready for anybody to trivially do, and probably it should never be. Notice that there are -- as far as I can tell -- no web pages (besides the SAGE notebook) that let a person enter arbitrary Python code, and Python is vastly more popular than SAGE. (Also, running the notebook through apache is already reasonably easy via using mod proxy.) Regarding Internet Explorer, the fact is it would be 1-2 day's of work to make the SAGE notebook reasonably usable from IE 7. Shift-enter would be replaced by a submit button and some of the CSS would have to be reworked, but otherwise most things would work. It hasn't happened yet, mainly because none of the people who know how the SAGE notebook work actually use IE. Supporting IE7 is definitely worth doing. Regarding: Pick an organization or department that uses Mathematica or Maple or MATLAB. Find out what they use it for. Put the same capabilities into SAGE. Give SAGE to them, possibly with a turnkey demonstration. Rinse and repeat?? This might be a reasonable strategy if SAGE had a nontrivial budget or were a company, but it isn't (though it's too random for my taste -- which department? which use case?). Every step of SAGE development has to: (1) directly benefit and be *very* important to at least one SAGE developer, and (2) move SAGE forward to be a better system. Guiding SAGE development is all about finding ways to simultaneously satisfy these constraints. Many of the comments in this thread are very helpful for this. Overall, I think the ideas in this thread that best satisfy the above two constraints are (1) Josh's idea to greatly improve the 2 and 3d graphics capabilities in SAGE (and how they are showcased on the website), and (2) Tim's idea to
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
Regarding Internet Explorer, the fact is it would be 1-2 day's of work to make the SAGE notebook reasonably usable from IE 7. Shift-enter would be replaced by a submit button and some of the CSS would have to be reworked, but otherwise most things would work. It hasn't happened yet, mainly because none of the people who know how the SAGE notebook work actually use IE. Supporting IE7 is definitely worth doing. Depending on funding, this might happen some time this month. It used to be a 2-3 day job, but most features have had their IE-aware code stripped out, since it was often causing more trouble than it was worth. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On 8/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding Internet Explorer, the fact is it would be 1-2 day's of work to make the SAGE notebook reasonably usable from IE 7. Shift-enter would be replaced by a submit button and some of the CSS would have to be reworked, but otherwise most things would work. It hasn't happened yet, mainly because none of the people who know how the SAGE notebook work actually use IE. Supporting IE7 is definitely worth doing. Depending on funding, this might happen some time this month. It used to be a 2-3 day job, but most features have had their IE-aware code stripped out, since it was often causing more trouble than it was worth. Hopefully many of those features disappeared from SAGE in the new version of the notebook. I optimistically think it is 2 days to get something that is fully usable. (This means that the CSS produces pages that are actually readable, and it is possible to evaluate cells, insert cells, etc.) What does depending on funding mean above, by the way? Does it mean, if I pay you some money out of startup? Another option is that I could finally get the tax-free donation (via credit card, etc.) setup through UW math, and we could see if somebody would donate a total of say $200 to support you spending a few days on this. What do you think? It would be interesting to have a comment in the code listing who paid for certain functionality... -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On Tue, 7 Aug 2007, William Stein wrote: On 8/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding Internet Explorer, the fact is it would be 1-2 day's of work to make the SAGE notebook reasonably usable from IE 7. Shift-enter would be replaced by a submit button and some of the CSS would have to be reworked, but otherwise most things would work. It hasn't happened yet, mainly because none of the people who know how the SAGE notebook work actually use IE. Supporting IE7 is definitely worth doing. Depending on funding, this might happen some time this month. It used to be a 2-3 day job, but most features have had their IE-aware code stripped out, since it was often causing more trouble than it was worth. Hopefully many of those features disappeared from SAGE in the new version of the notebook. I optimistically think it is 2 days to get something that is fully usable. (This means that the CSS produces pages that are actually readable, and it is possible to evaluate cells, insert cells, etc.) I agree that it would probably take around 2 days for it to work, and suck a little. I think it'd take a week (plus) for it to work nicely. I recall that cross-browser introspection was a hard problem, but doable. What does depending on funding mean above, by the way? Does it mean, if I pay you some money out of startup? Another option is that I could finally get the tax-free donation (via credit card, etc.) setup through UW math, and we could see if somebody would donate a total of say $200 to support you spending a few days on this. What do you think? It would be interesting to have a comment in the code listing who paid for certain functionality... It means, I'm kinda broke, so I'll do work on the notebook for pay. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
I'm here just to say that for non-US users, the name of the program is not the simplest to found on the web. SAGE is a name with many different meanings and I'd suggest a more peculiar name that could let the program to be found instantly on the web. And I agree that a web site with many examples open to free contribution and a .deb package would increase greatly the number of users. Just think about how many Debian users try to find a mathematica package in apt repository. Regards On Aug 8, 12:22 am, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sage-Devel, The SAGE downloads during the last week are as follows: Linux Binary 42 OS X Binary 42 Source 91 VMware (= Windows) 57 Total .. 232 The number of new downloads of SAGE per week have been roughly constant during the last 2-3 months. The growth of SAGE is definitely not what I hoped for during my talk at SAGE Days 4.Does anybody have any good ideas about how to increase the number of people downloading SAGE? My hope is that this question will spark a relaxed but enthusiastic and positive open-ended brainstorming thread in which a lot of crazy ideas appear. I'm laying a lot of groundwork (e.g., writing books, articles, etc.) and I think other people are (esp David Joyner), but there is probably much more that could be done. Please share your thoughts! -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
kaimmello wrote: I'm here just to say that for non-US users, the name of the program is not the simplest to found on the web. SAGE is a name with many different meanings and I'd suggest a more peculiar name that could let the program to be found instantly on the web. I very much agree with this. When someone does a web search on just sage, all kinds of other sites are returned. When telling people about Sage, one often only gets the chance to say a quick look up sage on the Internet. I was in a meeting with the head of Ohio's Learning Network organization a couple weeks ago and I was able to make a few comments about Sage. I noticed that everyone in the room picked up their pencils and wrote down notes on what I said, but I bet that most of them will have a hard time finding Sage on the Internet if they wrote the URL down wrong. Now that the SAGE acronym has been dropped, I would recommend changing the name to sagemath. This name matches the sagemath.org website, it helps explain what sage is, and search engines will not return unrelated sites if this name is used. Ted --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
Now that the SAGE acronym has been dropped, I would recommend changing the name to sagemath. This name matches the sagemath.org website, it helps explain what sage is, and search engines will not return unrelated sites if this name is used. We bring this up every few months, and I maintain that it's a good idea. Alternately, sage.math or mathsage (that would make us an m, which has it's pluses and minuses.) --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
This is kinda off the wall: Mathematica, Maple, and Matlab don't have a lot of competition for their keywords on Google, Yahoo, or MSN. By offering a **very low bid** on each of the names, you could probably put a message about the SAGE open source project on each of their names. In addition, you could do the same for SAGE's name. Together with the nice solid application based tutorials suggestion mentioned in this thread, you might easily siphon off their new users (and some old hands too). On Aug 7, 5:22 pm, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sage-Devel, The SAGE downloads during the last week are as follows: Linux Binary 42 OS X Binary 42 Source 91 VMware (= Windows) 57 Total .. 232 The number of new downloads of SAGE per week have been roughly constant during the last 2-3 months. The growth of SAGE is definitely not what I hoped for during my talk at SAGE Days 4.Does anybody have any good ideas about how to increase the number of people downloading SAGE? My hope is that this question will spark a relaxed but enthusiastic and positive open-ended brainstorming thread in which a lot of crazy ideas appear. I'm laying a lot of groundwork (e.g., writing books, articles, etc.) and I think other people are (esp David Joyner), but there is probably much more that could be done. Please share your thoughts! -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
Actually, to clarify and back up from the previous statement: I don't know what the level of competition is for those keywords. I thought it was low because Google didn't show a lot of ads, but that could be an artifact of automated programs that only show ads that are clicked on most frequently (or whatever). I suppose I could look, though I don't know if there is a way to check the average selling price. Also, this gets into economic questions: Is it better for the project to have maximum investment in RD or to have some part of investment in advertising, which can have the effect of more quickly growing the community. Perhaps it would make more sense to advertise on terms such as AMS or python or whatever else people who would make good candidate programmers search for. On Aug 8, 3:14 am, Chris Chiasson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is kinda off the wall: Mathematica, Maple, and Matlab don't have a lot of competition for their keywords on Google, Yahoo, or MSN. By offering a **very low bid** on each of the names, you could probably put a message about the SAGE open source project on each of their names. In addition, you could do the same for SAGE's name. Together with the nice solid application based tutorials suggestion mentioned in this thread, you might easily siphon off their new users (and some old hands too). On Aug 7, 5:22 pm, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sage-Devel, The SAGE downloads during the last week are as follows: Linux Binary 42 OS X Binary 42 Source 91 VMware (= Windows) 57 Total .. 232 The number of new downloads of SAGE per week have been roughly constant during the last 2-3 months. The growth of SAGE is definitely not what I hoped for during my talk at SAGE Days 4.Does anybody have any good ideas about how to increase the number of people downloading SAGE? My hope is that this question will spark a relaxed but enthusiastic and positive open-ended brainstorming thread in which a lot of crazy ideas appear. I'm laying a lot of groundwork (e.g., writing books, articles, etc.) and I think other people are (esp David Joyner), but there is probably much more that could be done. Please share your thoughts! -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On Wednesday 08 August 2007, William Stein wrote: Hi Sage-Devel, The SAGE downloads during the last week are as follows: Linux Binary 42 OS X Binary 42 Source 91 VMware (= Windows) 57 Total .. 232 The number of new downloads of SAGE per week have been roughly constant during the last 2-3 months. The growth of SAGE is definitely not what I hoped for during my talk at SAGE Days 4.Does anybody have any good ideas about how to increase the number of people downloading SAGE? My hope is that this question will spark a relaxed but enthusiastic and positive open-ended brainstorming thread I'm laying a lot of groundwork (e.g., writing books, articles, etc.) and I think other people are (esp David Joyner), but there is probably much more that could be done. Please share your thoughts! To me SAGE has at least two quite distinct target audiences. 1.) research mathematicians (or similar fields). I don't know how many people work in these areas (and know how to use a computer for research) around the world but having almost 1000 downloads a month seems like a lot to me. My guess is that most SAGE developers somehow fall into this category (correct me if I'm wrong) and that is why we focused and should focus on this area. Here, all that counts is high quality, maybe speed, good documentation and lots and lots of publications. Maybe presenting SAGE at some conferences wouldn't hurt either. So basically, it's all about a good product. 2.) undergrads taking calculus classes or people who use a CAS from time to time only. If SAGE is to reach the 10.000 user mark it is probably this group which makes up the big numbers. Many people on this list seem to assume so too, because they suggested non-mathemtical means to increase the number of users. in which a lot of crazy ideas appear. Okay, you asked for it: - is the SAGE notebook optimized for search engines? Does it get picked up? Same for the SAGE website, the documentation? Search Engine Optimization is a shady business but some tricks certainly help the visibility of a project. - right now, there is a huge hype surrounding AJAX, Web 2.0, user created content and such. SAGE fits in there because of the SAGE notebook which is a good example of AJAX actually being useful. Use the hype, let the AJAX crazy dotcom world know about it: techcrunch.com, mashable.com, uncov.com, slashdot.org, digg.com, reddit.com, lifehacker.com ... the list goes on and on and on. To them its a free webservice which doesn't even have Google Ads or VC. - buy some Google Ads, apply for venture capital ... kidding - when I did my GRE Math test I noticed that many shady websites try to lure you into installing some dialer to get some GRE Math prep material, like solutions with explanation. So, if they think it is a profitable business to rip-off potential grad students, there must be some significant number of people trying to find solutions to the GRE prep material on the web. A well placed SAGE notebook explaining the concepts and allowing a user to interact with the sample GRE test questions in the way SAGE allows this interaction could bring in some attention. - there are some math blogs news sites out there. Drop them a mail. Maybe search for Mathematica 6 review (as it just came out) and drop those reviewing Mathematica a mail about SAGE. So far, Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
- right now, there is a huge hype surrounding AJAX, Web 2.0, user created content and such. SAGE fits in there because of the SAGE notebook which is a good example of AJAX actually being useful. Use the hype, let the AJAX crazy dotcom world know about it: techcrunch.com, mashable.com, uncov.com, slashdot.org, digg.com, reddit.com, lifehacker.com ... the list goes on and on and on. To them its a free webservice which doesn't even have Google Ads or VC. Spot on. Slashdot has high PageRank. After obtaining a few stories there, sagemath.org will have a much higher PageRank. It could be billed in the typical Open Source XX Killer/Competitor way. Ex. Open Source Mathematica Competitor. This really gets the juices of the Slashdot hordes flowing. Of course, it is important to have a killer demo and a really fast server waiting on the other end of a Slashdot link... - buy some Google Ads, apply for venture capital ... kidding I think it is worth looking at since they're so serious about making SAGE successful. - when I did my GRE Math test I noticed that many shady websites try to lure you into installing some dialer to get some GRE Math prep material, like solutions with explanation. So, if they think it is a profitable business to rip-off potential grad students, there must be some significant number of people trying to find solutions to the GRE prep material on the web. A well placed SAGE notebook explaining the concepts and allowing a user to interact with the sample GRE test questions in the way SAGE allows this interaction could bring in some attention. Clever - there are some math blogs news sites out there. Drop them a mail. Maybe search for Mathematica 6 review (as it just came out) and drop those reviewing Mathematica a mail about SAGE. ++ --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On Wednesday 08 August 2007, Tim Lahey wrote: On 8/8/07, Martin Albrecht [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 2.) undergrads taking calculus classes or people who use a CAS from time to time only. If SAGE is to reach the 10.000 user mark it is probably this group which makes up the big numbers. Many people on this list seem to assume so too, because they suggested non-mathemtical means to increase the number of users. I guess it depends on what you mean from time to time. I use Maple quite a bit (pretty close to daily), and I presented software I wrote to symbolically derive mass and stiffness matrices from first principles for finite element analysis at Maple's user conference in 2005. I've been trying to do nearly all my symbolic mathematics for my PhD research directly in Maple and I've been using MATLAB for my numerics. However, license restrictions have been a pain for MATLAB so I've been looking at moving away from both Maple and MATLAB and into SAGE since I'm somewhat familiar with both Python and SciPy. Unfortunately, learning to use SAGE for symbolic calculations has been quite a bit more difficult than learning Maple. With limited time (since I have to do my research) it appears that I'll be using SAGE for numerical calculations at most (at least for the foreseeable future). Hi Tim, I wasn't trying to say that everybody using Calculus is not a power-user or developer. My point is that if we are after 10.000th of users, then casual users are the ones we are after, simply because I doubt that there are so many power-users/developers out there. Presenting working code to a conference isn't something 10.000 people are going to do (?) Cheers, Martin -- name: Martin Albrecht _pgp: http://pgp.mit.edu:11371/pks/lookup?op=getsearch=0x8EF0DC99 _www: http://www.informatik.uni-bremen.de/~malb _jab: [EMAIL PROTECTED] --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On Aug 8, 3:59 am, Tim Lahey [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I presented software I wrote to symbolically derive mass and stiffness matrices from first principles for finite element analysis at Maple's user conference in 2005. That's cool. I wrote similar stuff in Mathematica when I had to take finite element classes. I bet yours is a lot more sophisticated than mine. Is your work on the web? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
William wrote: Does anybody have any good ideas about how to increase the number of people downloading SAGE? My hope is that this question will spark a relaxed but enthusiastic and positive open-ended brainstorming thread in which a lot of crazy ideas appear. I'm laying a lot of groundwork (e.g., writing books, articles, etc.) and I think other people are (esp David Joyner), but there is probably much more that could be done. Please share your thoughts! In my opinion, the most promising marketing plan for Sage is based on the idea that Sage is the first general purpose computer algebra system in history that has the potential to radically change the way people learn and perform mathematics. I have come to firmly believe this and the main strategy of this marketing plan is to provide people with the educational support needed for them to see this for themselves. I think Sage's destiny is to create a revolution in the way people learn and perform mathematics and revolutions are most effective when they are targeted at the young. Therefore, I think Sage's future lies with the millions of junior high and high school aged students in the world today that are more than ready to learn how to perform mathematics in a way that is vastly more powerful than a hand calculator and guaranteed to be available as long as civilization lasts. If Sage is successful in gaining a large user base of young people today, this will translate into increasingly wider distribution across all industries and institutions going forward. The key to successfully distributing Sage to the millions of students in the world is to understand that they all need to learn fundamental programming and computer skills before they can use any computer algebra system. Most K-12 educational institutions and learning materials are unable to teach these skills because they are extremely obsolete. The reason for this is that technology's growth is exponential and most K-12 institutions have simply been unable to keep pace with it. These institutions know they need help with their math and science curricula and they are usually very open to solutions to this large and universal problem. Using this as a foundation, here are my thoughts on action items for a Sage marketing plan: 1) All technical students need to learn how a computer actually works and how to program. Create a series of free eBooks that teach these topics from scratch in a way that provides a solid foundation for learning how to use Sage: Status: Done ( http://professorandpat.org ) 2) The Internet heavily depends on UNIX-based open source operating systems and this dependency is increasing over time. A significant number of technical students need to learn how to manually install these type of operating systems so that they have a solid understanding of how they work. This knowledge is needed in order to do more advanced tasks like patching applications and building them. Create a series of free eBooks that show how to manually install Linux in a way which provides the learner with the skills needed to build Sage from scratch and set it up as a web service on the Internet. Status: 3/4 done ( http://206.21.94.60/tkosan/distancelearning/etec150/lectures/linux/ ). eBooks on building applications and manually setting up a Sage server still need to be written. 3) Develop an eBook for high school aged students that shows how to use Sage from the ground up. Status: In progress. 4) Develop a series of free mathematics books for high school aged students which are based on Sage. Status: If it can be assumed that the students already know the content in parts 1-3 above, these books should be a joy to write and I bet that people can be located who would be willing to develop these books. #3 above should be able to significantly increase the pool of people who have the Sage skills needed to write Sage-based textbooks. 5) Develop online courses that are based on the above materials. Make the course materials available for free to universities that would like to offer them as post secondary options to their local high schools. Encourage schools to donate some of the profits they make from the post secondary revenues to the Sage project. Status: This is exactly what my university is doing. We just signed a contract for $50,000 with a consortium of 16 high schools in our state capital to offer a course based on the above eBooks, along with 2 other courses. If this goes well, we will be in a good position to market courses to the rest of the schools in Ohio and this will hopefully include mathematics and programming courses based on Sage. Other universities could easily use the eBooks to do the same thing. 6) Similar to #5 except target Tech Prep schools in the US. These schools are easier to communicate with than normal high schools because they are all part of the nation-wide Tech Prep program. Status: My University is currently offering an online post secondary
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On 8/8/07, Chris Chiasson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: That's cool. I wrote similar stuff in Mathematica when I had to take finite element classes. I bet yours is a lot more sophisticated than mine. Is your work on the web? No, it isn't on the web at the moment, mainly because some of the code I wrote for it is kind of hackish. The other reason is that I'm trying to finish a paper on it and the numeric piece for the Journal of Symbolic Computation. Unfortunately, it hasn't been high on the priority list. If you're really interested, I could send you the Maple code and a couple of example worksheets. One worksheet derives the mass and stiffness matrices for the St. Louis arch and the other for a rotating Timoshenko beam. The arch is an example that my supervisor is using for a textbook he's writing (my code discovered a problem in his derivation) and the rotating Timoshenko beam is part of my thesis work. Send me an email off-line. Cheers, Tim Lahey --- Tim Lahey PhD Candidate, University of Waterloo Systems Design Engineering. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On Tuesday 07 August 2007 18:22, William Stein wrote: The number of new downloads of SAGE per week have been roughly constant during the last 2-3 months. The growth of SAGE is definitely not what I hoped for during my talk at SAGE Days 4.Does anybody have any good ideas about how to increase the number of people downloading SAGE? My hope is that this question will spark a relaxed but enthusiastic and positive open-ended brainstorming thread in which a lot of crazy ideas appear. I've spent some time evangelizing sage to 3 research mathematicians. I realize the responses below may not be valid given design constraints. But these are hurdles that the average computer-savvy mathematician needs to cross before they are going to even consider SAGE a competitor. Here's the responses I've gotten: 1) Ugh, a web-based interface: My feeling was that this mathematician felt exactly as I do about web-based interfaces -- they are always clunky. I'll admit that the new web interface is *very* smooth, but, it doesn't even begin to compare to a well crafted native interface. * What about hot keys for menu items? * What about syntax highlight? * What about smart python indenting? * Why does my browswer not scroll to contain the entire tab complete list? * How do I insert a cell with my keyboard? * Why do the edits shift up/down a pixel or 2 when focus changes? I don't necessarily mention these things as things to fix -- I honestly believe that to fix them all would make your javascript horridly unmaintainable. This not to mention browser compatibility (I'm on firefox of gentoo). My underlying point here is that the browser interface is off-putting to many experienced computer users and I don't blame them one bit. I think it's stunning that the notebook is this good at all because many web ui's suck far more. 2) Why does sage install so many things that I already have installed?: Really I don't think that this is a valid complaint. I totally understand the reason that sage installs all these things. I'm just pointing out that many linux users consider this blasphemy. I think the solution is better advertising about why this design decision was made. 3) It's not user friendly: I made the mistake of telling this mathematician that sage uses a mainstream programming language. Of course, I considered this a huge advantage -- lack of sensible file IO and string support in mathematica and others have pissed me off for years. These things mean absolutely nothing to most I've talked to. Even the ugly kludges that pass as for-loops in other mathematica-style languages don't arouse peoples understanding! The underlying point I took from this is that real programming languages scare people. Again, this is a matter of better advertising (but it does make me wonder if the appeals of sage aren't niche appeals.) Ok, I'm sorry if this came off a bit rant-like. I really don't mean it that way and I consider SAGE god's gift to mathematicians, but I've realized over the years that the things that make me giddy on a computer mean nothing to the vast majority of the computer-using public. Oh, and I agree with Bill --- you want market share, make a native windows port. Good luck with that! -- Joel --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On 8/8/07, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On 8/7/07, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Regarding Internet Explorer, the fact is it would be 1-2 day's of work to make the SAGE notebook reasonably usable from IE 7. Shift-enter would be replaced by a submit button and some of the CSS would have to be reworked, but otherwise most things would work. It hasn't happened yet, mainly because none of the people who know how the SAGE notebook work actually use IE. Supporting IE7 is definitely worth doing. Depending on funding, this might happen some time this month. It used to be a 2-3 day job, but most features have had their IE-aware code stripped out, since it was often causing more trouble than it was worth. Hopefully many of those features disappeared from SAGE in the new version of the notebook. I optimistically think it is 2 days to get something that is fully usable. (This means that the CSS produces pages that are actually readable, and it is possible to evaluate cells, insert cells, etc.) What does depending on funding mean above, by the way? Does it mean, if I pay you some money out of startup? Another option is that I could finally get the tax-free donation (via credit card, etc.) setup through UW math, and we could see if somebody would donate a total of say $200 to support you spending a few days on this. What do you think? It would be interesting to have a comment in the code listing who paid for certain functionality... I definitely think this should be done if it hasn't already. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] pari precision setting
I am using the simon_two_descent() method for EllipticCurve(), and have some curves where the default pari precision is in sufficient, for example e=EllipticCurve([0,0,0,-10164,409444]); e.simon_two_descent() fails withe the (gp) run-time error *** bnfsunit: precision too low in get_arch. Now in a normal gp session I can fix this after either \p56 or default(realprecision, 56) but when running in sage, doing pari.set_real_precision(120) seems to have no effect. I guess this is because the latter call effects the precision of the pari library functions, whereas simon_two_descent() is a gp script. If this is the case, and there is no better method, I guess we could add an extra input parameter prec to the simon_two_descent() function and then in that function call default(realprecision,prec). The default would be 28. I should be capable of doing this myself! But (1) I'm not sure which file to edit: looks like /home/jec/sage-2.7/devel/sage-main/build/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/gp_simon.py but there is at least one other clone of that file; (2) What should I do then to rebuild sage and test it? (3) When I am happy that it works, exactly what should I do to upload the change to that it gets incorporated into sage? If this is documented, someone please point me in the right direction. By the way, whoever it was who did the SAGE search thing deserves a prize -- it is permanently in my firefox top right corner and is how I look up anything about SAGE now! John PS I also have some fixes for the mwrank C++ code which I should upload, so the answers to my questions above should ideally answer that too. -- John Cremona --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
Anyone who is an academic using SAGE should try to give a little talk on it to your department (unneccessary at UW of course). I did this and I generated a fair amount of interest from our grad students. The faculty weren't overwhelmed, they all wanted particular things that sage currently lacks - an easy linear programming interface, support for R, bifurcation analysis, etc. I think the exhibit at the joint meetings will help a lot. We should do similar things at other meetings - I haven't had the time or energy to do that yet, but after the joint meetings maybe it will be easier for 1-2 people to set up a table at things like MathFest, SIAM, Society for Mathematical Biology, local MAA meetings, whatever. One of my goals is also to do more undergraduate research/development work with sage. One can view big unfergrad poster sessions as free advertising, at least to an academic audience. I agree with some other posters that eye-candy is crucial. I think a lot more could be done with Tachyon that might impress people. Also, exporting to PDF is very important I think, and currently seems a little broken (although maybe I am not doing it right). -Marshall On Aug 7, 4:22 pm, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi Sage-Devel, The SAGE downloads during the last week are as follows: Linux Binary 42 OS X Binary 42 Source 91 VMware (= Windows) 57 Total .. 232 The number of new downloads of SAGE per week have been roughly constant during the last 2-3 months. The growth of SAGE is definitely not what I hoped for during my talk at SAGE Days 4.Does anybody have any good ideas about how to increase the number of people downloading SAGE? My hope is that this question will spark a relaxed but enthusiastic and positive open-ended brainstorming thread in which a lot of crazy ideas appear. I'm laying a lot of groundwork (e.g., writing books, articles, etc.) and I think other people are (esp David Joyner), but there is probably much more that could be done. Please share your thoughts! -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
I've never used colinux, but why is vmware a preferable choice than colinux? I would think that it would be much easier to get something that felt like a native windows application with colinux. I also think that it makes more sense in the long term (that is, virtualization is the wave of the future. VMWare looks good for the moment, but it doesn't appear to me to make much sense on the desktop -- we need *application level* virtualization to make things feel good on the desktop. Perhaps VMWare does more than I think, but I always thought it just provided a mass window to a pseudo-machine and didn't allow sensible window-manager-like support.) Anyhow, an idea that builds on this is to build some X application instead of the notebook (ok, I'll admit I'm not a fan of the web notebook) and distribute a free x-server for windows with SAGE for windows. I believe that there might be an x-server out there which could make this feel like a very native solution. Of course, there's still the file transfer problem ... that is, the file system of colinux is distinct from the windows file system. -- Joel --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] new colloquium talk on SAGE
Hi, I just wrote a new colloquium-style talk on SAGE for CECM today: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/tmp/20070808-sfu/ (look for the pdf. The notebook.txt file also has the relevant SAGE notebook) -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://www.williamstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: new colloquium talk on SAGE
Excellent and very interesting. page 2: SD4 was held at UW not UCLA page 15: add VIGRE to PIMS for SD4 funding? page 16: Is it correct to say instead of there likely will never be a native windows version, to say there likely will never be a native windows version without significant addition funding directed towards that? On 8/8/07, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi, I just wrote a new colloquium-style talk on SAGE for CECM today: http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/tmp/20070808-sfu/ (look for the pdf. The notebook.txt file also has the relevant SAGE notebook) -- William Stein Associate Professor of Mathematics University of Washington http://www.williamstein.org --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On Aug 7, 2007, at 11:17 PM, William Stein wrote: The suggestion to make a serious major push for good 3d graphics, is clearly difficult but totally doable. I think this would be the best investment of time at present for the greatest return. The lack of good integrated interactive 3d graphics in SAGE is now the main remaining missing functionality. I still think the best solution is a java applet in the notebook and vtk/mayavi for people using the command line. Good interactive 3d graphics (in the notebook (and also from the command line if Java is installed)) is not as far off as one might think. There's still hard work left to do, but we've got a good plan and a fair amount of code written and I've been planning to start working on it again next week. I still think vtk/mayavi will probably be necessary for visualizing very large data sets. As well as being useful in its own right, I agree with the sentiments that fancy, flashy 3d graphics are a great way to get SAGE noticed. Aaron's suggestion to make it really easy to run the SAGE notebook publicly through apachessl sort of scares me because running the SAGE notebook publicly in anything but a chroot jail is inviting disaster, and that will never change. This is definitely not ready for anybody to trivially do, and probably it should never be. Notice that there are -- as far as I can tell -- no web pages (besides the SAGE notebook) that let a person enter arbitrary Python code, and Python is vastly more popular than SAGE. (Also, running the notebook through apache is already reasonably easy via using mod proxy.) I think a public SAGE notebook is the best and lowest entry point for people trying out SAGE. Unfortunately I think recently this has taken a big step back with requiring signing up to try it out and (though it may not seem like a big deal to some people but can be very scary to those that aren't so computer-savvy) the warnings browsers put up about the apparent insecurity of the self-signed certificate (since every page now uses ssh). I personally would like to see a no- commitment open public notebook again, even if it had limitations (e.g. a short max runtime and non-persistent worksheets, with the explanation that these are security/resource constraints, and one can log in and/or download sage for free). - Robert --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On 8/8/07, Joel B. Mohler wrote: I've never used colinux, but why is vmware a preferable choice than colinux? I would think that it would be much easier to get something that felt like a native windows application with colinux. I think both vmware and colinux do very clumsy things to the Windows network configuration. These have caused me trouble on several occasions. On Windows I find Microsoft's Virtual PC to be simpler and superior: http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamily/virtualpc/default.mspx I use it to run both SuSE 10 and Solaris 10.2 on my Windows dual-processor desktop very happily. Anyhow, an idea that builds on this is to build some X application instead of the notebook (ok, I'll admit I'm not a fan of the web notebook) and distribute a free x-server for windows with SAGE for windows. I believe that there might be an x-server out there which could make this feel like a very native solution. I run Xming and Putty: http://sourceforge.net/project/showfiles.php?group_id=156984package_id=222154 to provide x-server support under Windows. I use it to run Linux x-windows applications like the Axiom HyperDoc browser and graphics on my Windows desktop. Xmaxima should be ok too. I rarely touch the virtual machine itself. Xming creates application windows that look and feel a lot like Windows windows (depending on the actual UI). For example you can run FireFox as a x-windows application on the same virtual machine that is running Sage. Except for some font differences it looks and works very nearly the same as native Windows FireFox. This seems faster for running the notebook than running native Windows FireFox and accessing the notebook remotely. Of course, there's still the file transfer problem ... that is, the file system of colinux is distinct from the windows file system. The usual solution is to mount a Windows shared directory via Samba smbfs. The big problem with all this is it assumes a fair amount of sophistication for the average Windows user and some knowledge of Linux fundamentals. I do not know how or if it is possible to create a single installer file that would install all of this in one step on a virgin Windows system (with Administrator rights, of course). Regards, Bill Page. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Fwd: [linbox-devel] Re: linbox det bug
David,
FYI, the Linbox bug you and Gabe found has been fixed in svn Linbox,
so it will be fixed in SAGE in the not-too-distant future.
Thanks Pascal!!
-- william
-- Forwarded message --
From: Pascal Giorgi [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Date: Aug 8, 2007 9:00 AM
Subject: [linbox-devel] Re: linbox det bug
To: linbox-devel [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Hi William,
I looked for your bug and I finally managed to fix it.
It came from an optimization code for applying an integer dense matrix
to a vector,
which is, unfortunately, used in integer determinant computations.
It is now updated in the svn repository.
Pascal.
On Aug 3, 1:27 am, William Stein [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Hi Clement,
Any chance you could look into this. It's an 8x8 full matrix where
linbox (via SAGE)
computes the wrong determinant?
Here's the SAGE session that gives the bad result:
sage: M = matrix(
[
[-3821257660, -3821257669, -1736935303, -2779096486, -1736935306,
-2779096486, -2779096489, -2779096483],
[-3821257669, -3821257660, -1736935303, -2779096486, -1736935303,
-2779096489, -2779096486, -2779096489],
[-1736935303, -1736935303, -789516040, -1263225676, -789516049,
-1263225676, -1263225679, -1263225676],
[-2779096486, -2779096486, -1263225676, -2021161072, -1263225676,
-2021161081, -2021161081, -2021161084],
[-1736935306, -1736935303, -789516049, -1263225676, -789516040,
-1263225676, -1263225676, -1263225676],
[-2779096486, -2779096489, -1263225676, -2021161081, -1263225676,
-2021161072, -2021161081, -2021161081],
[-2779096489, -2779096486, -1263225679, -2021161081, -1263225676,
-2021161081, -2021161072, -2021161081],
[-2779096483, -2779096489, -1263225676, -2021161084, -1263225676,
-2021161081, -2021161081,-2021161072] ])
sage: M._det_linbox()
ERROR in reconstruction ?
0
The C++ code against linbox that's used for _det_linbox is:
void linbox_integer_dense_det(mpz_t ans, mpz_t** matrix, size_t nrows,
size_t ncols) {
commentator.setMaxDetailLevel(0);
commentator.setMaxDepth (0);
DenseMatrixIntegers A(new_matrix_integers(matrix, nrows, ncols));
GMP_Integers::Element d;
det(d, A);
mpz_set(ans, spy.get_mpz(d));
}
Thoughts?
--
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washingtonhttp://www.williamstein.org
--
William Stein
Associate Professor of Mathematics
University of Washington
http://www.williamstein.org
--~--~-~--~~~---~--~~
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-~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: pari precision setting
Thanks, Robert. I am well advanced with testing this now. I changed 3 files: 1. ~/sage-2.7/data/extcode/pari/simon/ellQ.gp where I changed one function main() to have an extra parameter 2. ~/sage-2.7/devel/sage-main/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/gp_simon.py which is the associated wrapper, and 3. ~/sage-2.7/devel/sage-main/sage/schemes/elliptic_curves/ell_rational_field.py so that the member function simon_two_descent() for EllipticCurve also has the new parameter. I edited the documentation part of 3 accordingly, and am now trying to find the example which failed before... John On 8/8/07, Robert Bradshaw [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 8, 2007, at 4:28 AM, John Cremona wrote: I am using the simon_two_descent() method for EllipticCurve(), and have some curves where the default pari precision is in sufficient, for example e=EllipticCurve([0,0,0,-10164,409444]); e.simon_two_descent() fails withe the (gp) run-time error *** bnfsunit: precision too low in get_arch. Now in a normal gp session I can fix this after either \p56 or default(realprecision, 56) but when running in sage, doing pari.set_real_precision(120) seems to have no effect. I guess this is because the latter call effects the precision of the pari library functions, whereas simon_two_descent() is a gp script. Yes, this is correct. Gp scripts run in their own clean session of pari so that previous commands/etc. won't (adversely or not) affect their behavior. If this is the case, and there is no better method, I guess we could add an extra input parameter prec to the simon_two_descent() function and then in that function call default(realprecision,prec). The default would be 28. Sounds good to me. I should be capable of doing this myself! But That would be great. (1) I'm not sure which file to edit: looks like /home/jec/sage-2.7/devel/sage-main/build/sage/schemes/ elliptic_curves/gp_simon.py but there is at least one other clone of that file; This is the one, where was the other one you were looking at? (2) What should I do then to rebuild sage and test it? sage -b rebuilds. To add a test to the doctests, add an example (preferably one that you fixed) to the area surrounded by triple quotes at the top of the relevant function. This example will then be tested before every release of SAGE to make sure it still works correctly. (3) When I am happy that it works, exactly what should I do to upload the change to that it gets incorporated into sage? SAGE uses the mercurial revision control system. http:// www.selenic.com/mercurial/wiki/ When you are happy with your changes, you can (from the sage prompt) type sage: hg_sage.commit() which will bring up an editor where you comment on your changes, then it will check them in. To send those changes to someone else (e.g. William) do sage: hg_sage.bundle(name_of_file) and send the resulting .hg file via email. There are lots of other commands, e.g. hg_sage.diff() to see what you changed, etc. This should be enough to get you going, but I would reccoment taking a look at http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/doc/html/prog/ prog.html , specifically section 7. If this is documented, someone please point me in the right direction. By the way, whoever it was who did the SAGE search thing deserves a prize -- it is permanently in my firefox top right corner and is how I look up anything about SAGE now! John PS I also have some fixes for the mwrank C++ code which I should upload, so the answers to my questions above should ideally answer that too. -- John Cremona -- John Cremona --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On Aug 8, 12:03 pm, Ted Kosan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might even be possible to actually use Google analytics to track global Sage notebook usage. If this is implemented, could this please be restricted to sagemath.org? --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] sage -clisp fails in sage-2.7.3
William, et al.; I downloaded sage-2.7.3-x86_64-Linux.tar.gz, untarred it and started sage successfully. But when I ask sage to start a clisp session, it fails with the following message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/sage-2.7.3-x86_64-Linux$ ./sage -clisp clisp: /home/was/sage-2.7.2.rc1/local/lib/clisp/base/lisp.run: No such file or directory I did 'sage -upgrade' and tried again, but the error remains. Any ideas how I can make this work? (It worked in sage-2.7.1) Regards, Bill Page. --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] AMS Notices column
Hi: The version at http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/papers/oscas/oscas-ams-notices.pdf has been accepted by the editor for the November NOTICES Opinion column. Are there any further comments? We have a day or 2 before sending in the final version. - David Joyner --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: AMS Notices column
I think saying that Mathematica is the company that made that claim about needing to know about internals is incorrect since Wikipedia says that Mathematica is produced by Wolfram Research. On 8/8/07, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: The version at http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/papers/oscas/oscas-ams-notices.pdf has been accepted by the editor for the November NOTICES Opinion column. Are there any further comments? We have a day or 2 before sending in the final version. - David Joyner --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: AMS Notices column
Minor fix on page 2: We probably will believe her, but she knows that she will be required to produce a proof if required. should probably be We probably will believe her, but she knows that she will be required to produce a proof if requested. --Mike On 8/8/07, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: The version at http://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/papers/oscas/oscas-ams-notices.pdf has been accepted by the editor for the November NOTICES Opinion column. Are there any further comments? We have a day or 2 before sending in the final version. - David Joyner --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: SAGE download stats -- how to increase SAGE usage?
On 8/8/07, Chris Chiasson [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Aug 8, 12:03 pm, Ted Kosan [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It might even be possible to actually use Google analytics to track global Sage notebook usage. If this is implemented, could this please be restricted to sagemath.org? Yes, it would definitely be restricted. We've discussed stuff like this before on sage-devel, and the decision was made to not put any automatic call home features in SAGE. For example, SAGE won't automatically check for updates, report usage patterns, etc., without the user explicitly doing something to opt in. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: AMS Notices column
I have been resisting a mention of this, but I finally gave in: Do you think the second author is a bit awkward, especially right after mentioning a bunch of mathematical software? It is possible that readers could become confused. Ways to deal with this: 1. Use Your second author... or One of your authors ... 2. Use This article's second author ... 3. Use William Stein, your second author, ... 4. Use William Stein, this article's second author, ... 5. Some other variation On Aug 8, 11:03 pm, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: The version athttp://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/papers/oscas/oscas-ams-notic... has been accepted by the editor for the November NOTICES Opinion column. Are there any further comments? We have a day or 2 before sending in the final version. - David Joyner --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: AMS Notices column
Other minor English usage suggestions: (repairs: em dash, em dash spacing, and run-on sentence) various mathematical facts - no code is given, and the programs are proprietary software some of which only run on hardware many years out of date. - various mathematical facts-no code is given. The programs are proprietary software, some of which only run on hardware many years out of date. On Aug 8, 11:03 pm, David Joyner [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hi: The version athttp://sage.math.washington.edu/home/was/papers/oscas/oscas-ams-notic... has been accepted by the editor for the November NOTICES Opinion column. Are there any further comments? We have a day or 2 before sending in the final version. - David Joyner --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
[sage-devel] Re: sage -clisp fails in sage-2.7.3
On 8/8/07, Bill Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: William, et al.; I downloaded sage-2.7.3-x86_64-Linux.tar.gz, untarred it and started sage successfully. But when I ask sage to start a clisp session, it fails with the following message: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/sage-2.7.3-x86_64-Linux$ ./sage -clisp clisp: /home/was/sage-2.7.2.rc1/local/lib/clisp/base/lisp.run: No such file or directory I did 'sage -upgrade' and tried again, but the error remains. Any ideas how I can make this work? (It worked in sage-2.7.1) I think this is a problem with the binary not being supported on your machine. In fact, I just tried installing the binary on my Opteron machine and it doesn't work either. Even started SAGE doesn't work: [EMAIL PROTECTED]:~/incoming/bin/linux/64bit/sage-2.7.3-x86_64-Linux$ ./sage -- | SAGE Version 2.7.3, Release Date: 2007-08-02 | | Type notebook() for the GUI, and license() for information.| -- Illegal instruction I thought that code built on an Intel x86_64 machine (Xeon) would also work on an opteron x86_64 machine, but evidently that is very much not the case. I will have to build binaries both for Intel and Opteron x86_64. I've started an opteron binary building, and will post it at sagemath.org when it finishes. Thanks for reporting this problem. All this building SAGE binaries stuff is starting to get complicated to do entirely by myself. Would anybody like to volunteer to help out? Labor, hardware, and clever technical solutions are all appreciated. -- William --~--~-~--~~~---~--~~ To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [EMAIL PROTECTED] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel URLs: http://sage.scipy.org/sage/ and http://modular.math.washington.edu/sage/ -~--~~~~--~~--~--~---
