Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Jori Mäntysalo]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, mmarco wrote:


Related to that, i think the current 17? digits are way too much for a
visually nice representation. I would prefear to see 1.4142...
than 1.414213562373095?  inside an expression.


OK for me. But I would like to have a setting for default length; I have 
done some computations where differences arise, for example, about tenth 
digit.


Not a big deal, thought.

--
Jori Mäntysalo

[sage-devel] Sage in Mac OSX 11.11 (El Capitan)

[Juan Luis Varona]

I have try to install sage (the current stable version 6.7) in Mac OSX 
11.11 (El Capitan), public beta (the final version will be available after 
the summer).

I have tried with both
*sage-6.7-x86_64-Darwin-OSX_10.10_x86_64.dmg 
*
and
*sage-6.7-x86_64-Darwin-OSX_10.10_x86_64-app.dmg 
*
without success.

None of them can be used due to an error. I have not found any information 
about it in any sage page, so I report it.
This is the error message:

Last login: Tue Jul 14 02:29:58 on ttys001
AirTeXano:~ jvarona$ /Applications/sage/sage ; exit;
┌┐
│ SageMath Version 6.7, Release Date: 2015-05-17 │
│ Type "notebook()" for the browser-based notebook interface.│
│ Type "help()" for help.│
└┘
The Sage installation tree has moved
from /Users/buildslave-sage/slave/sage_git/build
  to /Applications/sage
Updating various hardcoded paths...
(Please wait at most a few minutes.)
DO NOT INTERRUPT THIS.
Done updating paths.
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "/Applications/sage/src/bin/sage-ipython", line 7, in 
from sage.repl.interpreter import SageTerminalApp
  File 
"/Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/__init__.py", 
line 3, in 
from sage.repl.ipython_extension import load_ipython_extension
  File 
"/Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/ipython_extension.py",
 
line 59, in 
from IPython.core.magic import Magics, magics_class, line_magic
  File 
"/Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/__init__.py", 
line 45, in 
from .config.loader import Config
  File 
"/Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/config/__init__.py",
 
line 6, in 
from .application import *
  File 
"/Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/IPython/config/application.py",
 
line 9, in 
import json
  File "/Applications/sage/local/lib/python/json/__init__.py", line 108, in 

from .decoder import JSONDecoder
  File "/Applications/sage/local/lib/python/json/decoder.py", line 5, in 

import struct
  File "/Applications/sage/local/lib/python/struct.py", line 1, in 
from _struct import *
ImportError: 
dlopen(/Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/_struct.so, 2): 
Symbol not found: _PyUnicodeUCS4_AsEncodedString
  Referenced from: 
/Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/_struct.so
  Expected in: flat namespace
 in /Applications/sage/local/lib/python2.7/lib-dynload/_struct.so
logout
Saving session...completed.

[Proceso completado]



-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[rt.]

when excuted as a regular user, this file still comes with empty contents.
It's indeed no easy to diagnose sage-on-gentoo with no sage-on-gentoo on 
the computer, now that
I have got to know the more appropriate place to report the bug, I'd better 
to file bugs there later.

thanks! :)

在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午9:39:44，François写道：
>
> What about posting "/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt” or its 
> equivalent when run 
> as a normal user? 
>
> I will only be able to test this tomorrow when I get physical access to a 
> machine with sage-on-gentoo. 
>
> François 
>
> > On 14/07/2015, at 13:35, rt. > wrote: 
> > 
> > I just switch to a normal user, it still returns the same error. And 
> before this, I am always using root to do the daily job, and sage works 
> well. 
> > (just for convinience, these days I'm considering rearrange my system, 
> and maybe, a normal user will be applied to do the daily job) 
> > thanks! :) 
> > 
> > 在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午9:23:17，François写道： 
> > I think your problem is because you are running sage as root, but from a 
> > normal user session. The big clue is that your $DOT_SAGE folder is 
> > “/root/.sage”. Please try as a normal user. 
> > 
> > François 
> > 
> > > On 14/07/2015, at 13:14, rt.  wrote: 
> > > 
> > > this seems not to be my case, as François said, this problem should 
> have been posted for sage-on-gentoo, while I haven't realized it before. 
> > > Thank you all the same! 
> > > 
> > > 在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午1:37:06，Volker Braun写道： 
> > > Confirmed, this is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18891 
> > > 
> > > Run "sage -i jmol" to fix it for now. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 7:14:03 PM UTC+2, rt. wrote: 
> > > this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
> functions works well with only 3d plot failed. 
> > > As I excute the following command: 
> > > 
> > > sage: var('x,y') 
> > > sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi)) 
> > > 
> > > it returns : 
> > > 
> > > 
> /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
>  
> RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details 
> > >   RichReprWarning, 
> > > Graphics3d Object 
> > > 
> > > Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed 
> nothing 
> > > maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these 
> days, thanks to any help very much. 
> > > If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know 
> what's neesded. 
> > > 
> > > Thanks very much! 
> > > 
> > > -- 
> > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. 
> > > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. 
> > > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[Francois Bissey]

What about posting "/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt” or its 
equivalent when run
as a normal user?

I will only be able to test this tomorrow when I get physical access to a 
machine with sage-on-gentoo.

François

> On 14/07/2015, at 13:35, rt.  wrote:
> 
> I just switch to a normal user, it still returns the same error. And before 
> this, I am always using root to do the daily job, and sage works well.
> (just for convinience, these days I'm considering rearrange my system, and 
> maybe, a normal user will be applied to do the daily job)
> thanks! :)
> 
> 在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午9:23:17，François写道：
> I think your problem is because you are running sage as root, but from a 
> normal user session. The big clue is that your $DOT_SAGE folder is 
> “/root/.sage”. Please try as a normal user. 
> 
> François 
> 
> > On 14/07/2015, at 13:14, rt.  wrote: 
> > 
> > this seems not to be my case, as François said, this problem should have 
> > been posted for sage-on-gentoo, while I haven't realized it before. 
> > Thank you all the same! 
> > 
> > 在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午1:37:06，Volker Braun写道： 
> > Confirmed, this is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18891 
> > 
> > Run "sage -i jmol" to fix it for now. 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 7:14:03 PM UTC+2, rt. wrote: 
> > this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
> > functions works well with only 3d plot failed. 
> > As I excute the following command: 
> > 
> > sage: var('x,y') 
> > sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi)) 
> > 
> > it returns : 
> > 
> > /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
> >  RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> > failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> > see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details 
> >   RichReprWarning, 
> > Graphics3d Object 
> > 
> > Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed nothing 
> > maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these days, 
> > thanks to any help very much. 
> > If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know what's 
> > neesded. 
> > 
> > Thanks very much! 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "sage-devel" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. 
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[rt.]

I just switch to a normal user, it still returns the same error. And before 
this, I am always using root to do the daily job, and sage works well.
(just for convinience, these days I'm considering rearrange my system, and 
maybe, a normal user will be applied to do the daily job)
thanks! :)

在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午9:23:17，François写道：
>
> I think your problem is because you are running sage as root, but from a 
> normal user session. The big clue is that your $DOT_SAGE folder is 
> “/root/.sage”. Please try as a normal user. 
>
> François 
>
> > On 14/07/2015, at 13:14, rt. > wrote: 
> > 
> > this seems not to be my case, as François said, this problem should have 
> been posted for sage-on-gentoo, while I haven't realized it before. 
> > Thank you all the same! 
> > 
> > 在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午1:37:06，Volker Braun写道： 
> > Confirmed, this is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18891 
> > 
> > Run "sage -i jmol" to fix it for now. 
> > 
> > 
> > On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 7:14:03 PM UTC+2, rt. wrote: 
> > this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
> functions works well with only 3d plot failed. 
> > As I excute the following command: 
> > 
> > sage: var('x,y') 
> > sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi)) 
> > 
> > it returns : 
> > 
> > 
> /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
>  
> RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details 
> >   RichReprWarning, 
> > Graphics3d Object 
> > 
> > Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed 
> nothing 
> > maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these 
> days, thanks to any help very much. 
> > If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know 
> what's neesded. 
> > 
> > Thanks very much! 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[Francois Bissey]

First I would try to use sage as your regular user, then we can talk about 
any problems arising.

François

> On 14/07/2015, at 13:27, rt.  wrote:
> 
> It's strange that all the file in the directory is empty，and I find 
> scene.spt.zip
> in the subdirectory，but when try to display it directly with Jmol:
> 
> jmol  /root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip 
> splash_image=jar:file:/usr/share/sage-jmol-bin/lib/Jmol.jar!/org/openscience/jmol/app/images/Jmol_splash.jpg
> history file is /root/.jmol/history
> (C) 2012 Jmol Development
> Jmol Version: 14.2.11_2015.01.20  2015-01-20 12:29
> java.vendor: Java: Oracle Corporation
> java.version: Java 1.7.0_79
> os.name: Linux
> Access: ALL
> memory: 44.5/97.4
> processors available: 4
> useCommandThread: false
> User macros dir: /root/.jmol/macros
>exists: false
>   isDirectory: false
> Executing script: load "/root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip";
> 
> FileManager.getAtomSetCollectionFromFile(/root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip)
> cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
> cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
> FileManager opening 2 /root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip
> cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
> cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
> The Resolver thinks Xyz
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: -3 -2.84615 0.0919047
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: -3 -2.69231 0.806228
> ...
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.69231 -1.61538 1.4976
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.69231 2.69231 1.49328
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.84615 1.46154 -1.48303
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.84615 2.53846 1.49646
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 1521
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 1
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 41
> line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 40
> ...
> 
> I'm wondering is there something wrong with the data file
> 
> 
> 
> 在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午3:28:16，François写道：
> Hi rt, 
> 
> sage-on-gentoo bugs are best discussed in a github issue unless you 
> can reproduce it in a “vanilla” sage build. Github issue for sage-on-gentoo: 
> https://github.com/cschwan/sage-on-gentoo/issues 
> 
> Funny that your message lead Volker to something that was wrong 
> in vanilla when your problem is unrelated. Volker's advice is not applicable 
> to your install since “sage -i” doesn’t exist in sage-on-gentoo. 
> 
> Can you post "/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt” so I can try 
> to figure it out. 
> 
> François 
> 
> > On 14/07/2015, at 04:50, rt.  wrote: 
> > 
> > this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
> > functions works well with only 3d plot failed. 
> > As I excute the following command: 
> > 
> > sage: var('x,y') 
> > sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi)) 
> > 
> > it returns : 
> > 
> > /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
> >  RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> > failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> > see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details 
> >   RichReprWarning, 
> > Graphics3d Object 
> > 
> > Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed nothing 
> > maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these days, 
> > thanks to any help very much. 
> > If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know what's 
> > neesded. 
> > 
> > Thanks very much! 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> > "sage-devel" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> > email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. 
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
> 
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[rt.]

It's strange that all the file in the directory is empty，and I find 
scene.spt.zip
in the subdirectory，but when try to display it directly with Jmol:

jmol  /root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip 
splash_image=jar:file:/usr/share/sage-jmol-bin/lib/Jmol.jar!/org/openscience/jmol/app/images/Jmol_splash.jpg
history file is /root/.jmol/history
(C) 2012 Jmol Development
Jmol Version: 14.2.11_2015.01.20  2015-01-20 12:29
java.vendor: Java: Oracle Corporation
java.version: Java 1.7.0_79
os.name: Linux
Access: ALL
memory: 44.5/97.4
processors available: 4
useCommandThread: false
User macros dir: /root/.jmol/macros
   exists: false
  isDirectory: false
Executing script: load 
"/root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip";

FileManager.getAtomSetCollectionFromFile(/root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip)
cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
FileManager opening 2 /root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip
cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
cacheGet file://root/.sage/temp/rt./29736/dir_fz8ajw/scene.spt.zip false
The Resolver thinks Xyz
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: -3 -2.84615 0.0919047
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: -3 -2.69231 0.806228
...
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.69231 -1.61538 1.4976
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.69231 2.69231 1.49328
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.84615 1.46154 -1.48303
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 2.84615 2.53846 1.49646
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 1521
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 1
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 41
line cannot be read for XYZ atom data: 40
...

I'm wondering is there something wrong with the data file



在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午3:28:16，François写道：
>
> Hi rt, 
>
> sage-on-gentoo bugs are best discussed in a github issue unless you 
> can reproduce it in a “vanilla” sage build. Github issue for 
> sage-on-gentoo: 
> https://github.com/cschwan/sage-on-gentoo/issues 
>
> Funny that your message lead Volker to something that was wrong 
> in vanilla when your problem is unrelated. Volker's advice is not 
> applicable 
> to your install since “sage -i” doesn’t exist in sage-on-gentoo. 
>
> Can you post "/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt” so I can try 
> to figure it out. 
>
> François 
>
> > On 14/07/2015, at 04:50, rt. > wrote: 
> > 
> > this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
> functions works well with only 3d plot failed. 
> > As I excute the following command: 
> > 
> > sage: var('x,y') 
> > sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi)) 
> > 
> > it returns : 
> > 
> > 
> /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
>  
> RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details 
> >   RichReprWarning, 
> > Graphics3d Object 
> > 
> > Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed 
> nothing 
> > maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these 
> days, thanks to any help very much. 
> > If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know 
> what's neesded. 
> > 
> > Thanks very much! 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[Francois Bissey]

I think your problem is because you are running sage as root, but from a
normal user session. The big clue is that your $DOT_SAGE folder is
“/root/.sage”. Please try as a normal user.

François

> On 14/07/2015, at 13:14, rt.  wrote:
> 
> this seems not to be my case, as François said, this problem should have been 
> posted for sage-on-gentoo, while I haven't realized it before.
> Thank you all the same!
> 
> 在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午1:37:06，Volker Braun写道：
> Confirmed, this is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18891
> 
> Run "sage -i jmol" to fix it for now.
> 
> 
> On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 7:14:03 PM UTC+2, rt. wrote:
> this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other functions 
> works well with only 3d plot failed.
> As I excute the following command:
> 
> sage: var('x,y')
> sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi))
> 
> it returns :
> 
> /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
>  RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details
>   RichReprWarning,
> Graphics3d Object
> 
> Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed nothing
> maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these days, 
> thanks to any help very much.
> If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know what's 
> neesded.
> 
> Thanks very much!
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[rt.]

this seems not to be my case, as François said, this problem should have 
been posted for sage-on-gentoo, while I haven't realized it before.
Thank you all the same!

在 2015年7月14日星期二 UTC+8上午1:37:06，Volker Braun写道：
>
> Confirmed, this is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18891
>
> Run "sage -i jmol" to fix it for now.
>
>
> On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 7:14:03 PM UTC+2, rt. wrote:
>>
>> this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
>> functions works well with only 3d plot failed.
>> As I excute the following command:
>>
>> sage: var('x,y')
>> sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi))
>>
>> it returns :
>>
>> /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
>>  
>> RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
>> failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
>> see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details
>>   RichReprWarning,
>> Graphics3d Object
>>
>> Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed 
>> nothing
>> maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these days, 
>> thanks to any help very much.
>> If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know what's 
>> neesded.
>>
>> Thanks very much!
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Building Sage 6.8.beta8 from source; singular build errors

[Francois Bissey]

This is ticket http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18892 and it has been solved 
earlier
today and incidentally in April in sage-on-gentoo.

You can just copy the patch 
https://raw.githubusercontent.com/cschwan/sage-on-gentoo/master/sci-mathematics/singular/files/singular-3.1.7-use_cxx_for_linking.patch
in build/pkgs/singular/patches/ and you should be good to go.

François

> On 14/07/2015, at 12:53, Brenton Horne  wrote:
> 
> Hi, 
> 
> I attempted to build Sage 6.8.beta8 by cloning the git SageMath repo, i.e., 
> running:
> git clone git://git.sagemath.org/sage.git
> then running:
> cd sage
> make
> 
> This runs without issue until the
> ~/sage
> directory reaches 1.5 GB in size then I received the error:
> make[2]: *** 
> [/home/fusion809/sage/local/var/lib/sage/installed/singular-3.1.7p1.p0] Error 
> 1
> make[2]: Leaving directory '/home/fusion809/sage/build'
> Makefile:418: recipe for target 'all' failed
> make[1]: *** [all] Error 2
> make[1]: Leaving directory '/home/fusion809/sage/build'
> 
> 
> real 6m16.285s
> user 5m44.756s
> sys 0m19.516s
> ***
> Error building Sage.
> 
> 
> The following package(s) may have failed to build:
> 
> 
> package: singular-3.1.7p1.p0
> log file: /home/fusion809/sage/logs/pkgs/singular-3.1.7p1.p0.log
> build directory: 
> /home/fusion809/sage/local/var/tmp/sage/build/singular-3.1.7p1.p0
> 
> 
> The build directory may contain configuration files and other potentially
> helpful information. WARNING: if you now run 'make' again, the build
> directory will, by default, be deleted. Set the environment variable
> SAGE_KEEP_BUILT_SPKGS to 'yes' to prevent this.
> 
> 
> Makefile:19: recipe for target 'build' failed
> make: *** [build] Error 1
> 
> I have attempted to build sage 6.7 from source tarballs and I received the 
> same error, so I doubt it's unique to git. My operating system is 32 bit 
> Ubuntu 15.04 (although I have switched to a 4.0.0 kernel, but I experienced 
> this same error before I switched the kernel too). My RAM is 3.8 GB, CPU is 4 
> x Intel Core (TM) i5 CPU M 460 @ 2.53GHz. 
> 
> Thanks for your time,
> Brenton
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
> 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Simon King]

Hi Bill,

On 2015-07-13, Bill Hart  wrote:
> On Monday, 13 July 2015 19:15:40 UTC+2, Simon King wrote:
>> On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen > wrote: 
>> > sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element 
>> > sqrt(2) 
>> > sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value 
>> > 1.414213562373095? 
>> > 
>> > It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some 
>> additional 
>> > digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact. 
>> > 
>> > How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we 
>> always 
>> > provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' 
>> at least 
>> > when it is free to do so? 
>>
>> The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you 
>> probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, in 
>> general, not be expressed that nicely.
>>
>
> This is slightly incorrect.

For an appropriate notion of "such a representation" resp. "that nicely", my
statement is correct :-)

Indeed, I replied to a message that was about representation of elements
of QQbar in terms of square (generally n-th) roots.

Best regards,
Simon

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Bill Hart]

On Monday, 13 July 2015 22:07:46 UTC+2, Jeroen Demeyer wrote:
>
> On 2015-07-13 21:55, Bill Hart wrote: 
> > The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As 
> you 
> > probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 
> > can, in general, not be expressed that nicely. 
> > 
> > This is slightly incorrect. The general quintic can be solved in terms 
> > of Jacobi theta functions, the general sextic in terms of Kampe de 
> > Feriet functions, amongst others. 
> > 
> > In general Mellin integrals, Fuchsian functions and theta functions can 
> > be used to solve general equations of degree n. 
>
> ...which proves the original poster's point about "not be expressed that 
> nicely". 
>

The formulas for the quintic in terms of Jacobi functions, for example, 
don't look that much more frightening than those for the quartic in terms 
of radicals. I don't see any explosion in complexity. 

Perhaps it is a matter of taste.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Monday, 13 July 2015 20:30:34 UTC+1, Volker Braun wrote:
>
> ¿¡Qué estás diciendo!?


So that  '¿' indicates the beginning of the questionable part!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Jeroen Demeyer]

On 2015-07-13 21:55, Bill Hart wrote:

The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you
probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4
can, in general, not be expressed that nicely.

This is slightly incorrect. The general quintic can be solved in terms
of Jacobi theta functions, the general sextic in terms of Kampe de
Feriet functions, amongst others.

In general Mellin integrals, Fuchsian functions and theta functions can
be used to solve general equations of degree n.


...which proves the original poster's point about "not be expressed that 
nicely".


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Bill Hart]

On Monday, 13 July 2015 19:15:40 UTC+2, Simon King wrote:
>
> Hi! 
>
> On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen > wrote: 
> > sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element 
> > sqrt(2) 
> > sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value 
> > 1.414213562373095? 
> > 
> > It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some 
> additional 
> > digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact. 
> > 
> > How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we 
> always 
> > provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' 
> at least 
> > when it is free to do so? 
>
> The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you 
> probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, in 
> general, not be expressed that nicely.
>

This is slightly incorrect. The general quintic can be solved in terms of 
Jacobi theta functions, the general sextic in terms of Kampe de Feriet 
functions, amongst others. 

In general Mellin integrals, Fuchsian functions and theta functions can be 
used to solve general equations of degree n. 

Bill.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Vincent Delecroix]

On 13/07/15 19:48, Jonas Jermann wrote:

On 13.07.2015 19:33, Nathann Cohen wrote:

I agree with Simon, although finding a nice expression like
sqrt(2)+3^(1/3)
can be very costly deppending on how the algebraic number was
constructed.


Yepyep. As Simon said we cannot always express algebraic numbers in
such a nice way, though. Well, if you want to build such an object
*in Sage* then you must describe your value somehow, and it is also
stored internally somewhere.. And I wonder how, and whether we can
base the representation on this internal version of the value :-)


Anyways we could have such an expression for the cases where it is
evident
from the number construction.


-1

I definitely prefer a uniform output.


Me too. I would really much prefer uniform output and uniform storage... 
If somebody input sum(QQbar(i).sqrt() for i in range(100)) do we really 
want to output


1 + sqrt(2) + sqrt(3) + etc

I guess not. And we do not want to slow down the computation of numbers 
in QQbar because one can potentially have a nicer output form.


> If you want a symbolic representation then convert the element to
> one from SR (symbolic ring). This is basically what you are asking with
> "where it is evident" anyway...
>

Of course you could add a function which tries to do exactly that
but in my opinion the default output should have a "uniform" look
for a given parent. That way you also realize (better) over what
parent you are working with currently.


That is a different matter and we already have #17516 for that.

Vincent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Vincent Delecroix]

On 13/07/15 19:15, Simon King wrote:

Hi!

On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen  wrote:

 sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element
 sqrt(2)
 sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value
 1.414213562373095?

It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some additional
digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact.

How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we always
provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' at least
when it is free to do so?


The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you
probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, in
general, not be expressed that nicely. But it seems like an appealing
idea to show a nice expression for algebraic numbers of degree up to 4.


If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what would you
think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more
informative, e.g.:


1.4142134... looks exact to me: "..." seems to suggest that Sage knows all
(potentially infinitely many) digits but can't show them all, whereas "?" seems
to suggest that the last shown digit is questionable (i.e., subject to rounding
errors), i.e., "?" seems to suggest that Sage doesn't know the exact value.


+1

It is consistent with

sage: words.FibonacciWord([0,1])
word: 0100101001001010010100100101001001010010...

sage: continued_fraction(pi)
[3; 7, 15, 1, 292, 1, 1, 1, 2, 1, 3, 1, 14, 2, 1, 1, 2, 2, 2, 2, ...]

sage: IntegerRange(0,+Infinity,2)
{0, 2, ...}

Vincent

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Volker Braun]

¿¡Qué estás diciendo!?


On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 9:14:51 PM UTC+2, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>
>
> On Monday, 13 July 2015 18:49:48 UTC+1, William wrote:
>>
>> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Simon King  
>> wrote: 
>> > Hi! 
>> > 
>> > On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen  wrote: 
>> >> sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element 
>> >> sqrt(2) 
>> >> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value 
>> >> 1.414213562373095? 
>> >> 
>> >> It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some 
>> additional 
>> >> digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is 
>> exact. 
>> >> 
>> >> How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we 
>> always 
>> >> provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 
>> 'sqrt(2)' at least 
>> >> when it is free to do so? 
>> > 
>> > The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you 
>> > probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, 
>> in 
>> > general, not be expressed that nicely. But it seems like an appealing 
>> > idea to show a nice expression for algebraic numbers of degree up to 4. 
>> > 
>> >> If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what 
>> would you 
>> >> think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more 
>> >> informative, e.g.: 
>> > 
>> > 1.4142134... looks exact to me: "..." seems to suggest that Sage knows 
>> all 
>> > (potentially infinitely many) digits but can't show them all, whereas 
>> "?" seems 
>> > to suggest that the last shown digit is questionable (i.e., subject to 
>> rounding 
>> > errors), i.e., "?" seems to suggest that Sage doesn't know the exact 
>> value. 
>>
>> Yes.  Also, with interval arithmetic, that is precisely what it means: 
>>
>> sage: RealIntervalField(53)(sqrt(2)) 
>> 1.414213562373095? 
>> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) 
>> 1.414213562373095? 
>>
>> It's certainly not good that the above two print in the same way. 
>> The (mysterious [1]) person who made those design choices -- Carl 
>> Witty -- isn't contributing anymore, or I'd ask his opinion. 
>>
>
> As we now allow unicode, we can probably find a better character than '?'.
> Say ⇘, or ↴, or even ¿.
>
>  
>
>>
>>
>> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/users/684532/carl-witty 
>>
>> > 
>> > So, I'd prefer to display elements of QQbar as floating point numbers 
>> > (what default precision?), always rounded DOWN to the last digit that 
>> is 
>> > displayed, and followed by "..." (not "?") unless the displayed value 
>> is 
>> > exact. So, what is displayed is an initial part of the potentially 
>> > infinite sequence of digits. 
>> > 
>> > Best regards, 
>> > Simon 
>> > 
>> > 
>> > -- 
>> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
>> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
>> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
>> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com. 
>> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
>> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>>
>>
>>
>> -- 
>> William (http://wstein.org) 
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[Francois Bissey]

Hi rt,

sage-on-gentoo bugs are best discussed in a github issue unless you
can reproduce it in a “vanilla” sage build. Github issue for sage-on-gentoo:
https://github.com/cschwan/sage-on-gentoo/issues

Funny that your message lead Volker to something that was wrong 
in vanilla when your problem is unrelated. Volker's advice is not applicable
to your install since “sage -i” doesn’t exist in sage-on-gentoo.

Can you post "/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt” so I can try
to figure it out.

François

> On 14/07/2015, at 04:50, rt.  wrote:
> 
> this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other functions 
> works well with only 3d plot failed.
> As I excute the following command:
> 
> sage: var('x,y')
> sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi))
> 
> it returns :
> 
> /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
>  RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details
>   RichReprWarning,
> Graphics3d Object
> 
> Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed nothing
> maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these days, 
> thanks to any help very much.
> If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know what's 
> neesded.
> 
> Thanks very much!
> 
> -- 
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Monday, 13 July 2015 18:49:48 UTC+1, William wrote:
>
> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Simon King  > wrote: 
> > Hi! 
> > 
> > On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen > wrote: 
> >> sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element 
> >> sqrt(2) 
> >> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value 
> >> 1.414213562373095? 
> >> 
> >> It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some 
> additional 
> >> digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is 
> exact. 
> >> 
> >> How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we 
> always 
> >> provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' 
> at least 
> >> when it is free to do so? 
> > 
> > The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you 
> > probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, 
> in 
> > general, not be expressed that nicely. But it seems like an appealing 
> > idea to show a nice expression for algebraic numbers of degree up to 4. 
> > 
> >> If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what 
> would you 
> >> think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more 
> >> informative, e.g.: 
> > 
> > 1.4142134... looks exact to me: "..." seems to suggest that Sage knows 
> all 
> > (potentially infinitely many) digits but can't show them all, whereas 
> "?" seems 
> > to suggest that the last shown digit is questionable (i.e., subject to 
> rounding 
> > errors), i.e., "?" seems to suggest that Sage doesn't know the exact 
> value. 
>
> Yes.  Also, with interval arithmetic, that is precisely what it means: 
>
> sage: RealIntervalField(53)(sqrt(2)) 
> 1.414213562373095? 
> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) 
> 1.414213562373095? 
>
> It's certainly not good that the above two print in the same way. 
> The (mysterious [1]) person who made those design choices -- Carl 
> Witty -- isn't contributing anymore, or I'd ask his opinion. 
>

As we now allow unicode, we can probably find a better character than '?'.
Say ⇘, or ↴, or even ¿.

 

>
>
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/users/684532/carl-witty 
>
> > 
> > So, I'd prefer to display elements of QQbar as floating point numbers 
> > (what default precision?), always rounded DOWN to the last digit that is 
> > displayed, and followed by "..." (not "?") unless the displayed value is 
> > exact. So, what is displayed is an initial part of the potentially 
> > infinite sequence of digits. 
> > 
> > Best regards, 
> > Simon 
> > 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> William (http://wstein.org) 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: a sage bug

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Monday, 13 July 2015 11:08:02 UTC+1, Simon King wrote:
>
> Hi Volker, 
>
> On 2015-07-13, Volker Braun > wrote: 
> > You can use tor (https://www.torproject.org) to access the entire 
> internet 
> > or gmane (http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel) 
> > specifically for sage-devel. 
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if they blocked tor, too (and of course anybody 
> who uses tor automatically becomes suspect). And I have seen at several 
> European and US-American universities that the web is configured in such 
> a way that using gmane via slrn doesn't work (but I don't know if they 
> just block slrn or also block using gmane in a web browser). 
>
> I have only seen NNTP port (119) blocked (the one needed by the classical 
Usenet readers such as slrn).  And this is mostly out of ignorance - I 
managed a couple of times to get it open just by emailing sysadmins.

Best regards, 
> Simon 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[John Cremona]

Jonas -- the implementation of QQbar elements is precisely via real
intervals and a polynomial satisfied by the number (not always the min poly
unless that is forced, since that can be expensive).

This I think that the only issue is in how real interval field elements are
represented.  No-one (or almost) has ever liked the current form ending in
a ? which does of course have a logic behind it but is *very* hard to
explain (and to remember).

The sqrt() - style representation is only really practical for number of
degree 2 -- in principle one could do more general radical expressions, and
sqrt(2)+sqrt(3) looks rather nicer than

sage: QQbar(2).sqrt()+QQbar(3).sqrt()
3.146264369941973?

but that is (a) expensive and (b) only applies to rather special algebraic
numbers.

John

On 13 July 2015 at 18:49, William Stein  wrote:

> On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Simon King 
> wrote:
> > Hi!
> >
> > On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen  wrote:
> >> sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element
> >> sqrt(2)
> >> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value
> >> 1.414213562373095?
> >>
> >> It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some
> additional
> >> digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact.
> >>
> >> How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we
> always
> >> provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)'
> at least
> >> when it is free to do so?
> >
> > The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you
> > probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, in
> > general, not be expressed that nicely. But it seems like an appealing
> > idea to show a nice expression for algebraic numbers of degree up to 4.
> >
> >> If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what
> would you
> >> think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more
> >> informative, e.g.:
> >
> > 1.4142134... looks exact to me: "..." seems to suggest that Sage knows
> all
> > (potentially infinitely many) digits but can't show them all, whereas
> "?" seems
> > to suggest that the last shown digit is questionable (i.e., subject to
> rounding
> > errors), i.e., "?" seems to suggest that Sage doesn't know the exact
> value.
>
> Yes.  Also, with interval arithmetic, that is precisely what it means:
>
> sage: RealIntervalField(53)(sqrt(2))
> 1.414213562373095?
> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2))
> 1.414213562373095?
>
> It's certainly not good that the above two print in the same way.
> The (mysterious [1]) person who made those design choices -- Carl
> Witty -- isn't contributing anymore, or I'd ask his opinion.
>
>
> [1] http://stackoverflow.com/users/684532/carl-witty
>
> >
> > So, I'd prefer to display elements of QQbar as floating point numbers
> > (what default precision?), always rounded DOWN to the last digit that is
> > displayed, and followed by "..." (not "?") unless the displayed value is
> > exact. So, what is displayed is an initial part of the potentially
> > infinite sequence of digits.
> >
> > Best regards,
> > Simon
> >
> >
> > --
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
> Groups "sage-devel" group.
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
> an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>
>
>
> --
> William (http://wstein.org)
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[William Stein]

On Mon, Jul 13, 2015 at 10:15 AM, Simon King  wrote:
> Hi!
>
> On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen  wrote:
>> sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element
>> sqrt(2)
>> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value
>> 1.414213562373095?
>>
>> It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some 
>> additional
>> digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact.
>>
>> How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we always
>> provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' at 
>> least
>> when it is free to do so?
>
> The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you
> probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, in
> general, not be expressed that nicely. But it seems like an appealing
> idea to show a nice expression for algebraic numbers of degree up to 4.
>
>> If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what would you
>> think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more
>> informative, e.g.:
>
> 1.4142134... looks exact to me: "..." seems to suggest that Sage knows all
> (potentially infinitely many) digits but can't show them all, whereas "?" 
> seems
> to suggest that the last shown digit is questionable (i.e., subject to 
> rounding
> errors), i.e., "?" seems to suggest that Sage doesn't know the exact value.

Yes.  Also, with interval arithmetic, that is precisely what it means:

sage: RealIntervalField(53)(sqrt(2))
1.414213562373095?
sage: QQbar(sqrt(2))
1.414213562373095?

It's certainly not good that the above two print in the same way.
The (mysterious [1]) person who made those design choices -- Carl
Witty -- isn't contributing anymore, or I'd ask his opinion.


[1] http://stackoverflow.com/users/684532/carl-witty

>
> So, I'd prefer to display elements of QQbar as floating point numbers
> (what default precision?), always rounded DOWN to the last digit that is
> displayed, and followed by "..." (not "?") unless the displayed value is
> exact. So, what is displayed is an initial part of the potentially
> infinite sequence of digits.
>
> Best regards,
> Simon
>
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an 
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.



-- 
William (http://wstein.org)

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Jonas Jermann]

On 13.07.2015 19:33, Nathann Cohen wrote:

I agree with Simon, although finding a nice expression like sqrt(2)+3^(1/3)
can be very costly deppending on how the algebraic number was constructed.


Yepyep. As Simon said we cannot always express algebraic numbers in
such a nice way, though. Well, if you want to build such an object
*in Sage* then you must describe your value somehow, and it is also
stored internally somewhere.. And I wonder how, and whether we can
base the representation on this internal version of the value :-)


Anyways we could have such an expression for the cases where it is evident
from the number construction.


-1

I definitely prefer a uniform output.
If you want a symbolic representation then convert the element to
one from SR (symbolic ring). This is basically what you are asking with
"where it is evident" anyway...

Of course you could add a function which tries to do exactly that
but in my opinion the default output should have a "uniform" look
for a given parent. That way you also realize (better) over what
parent you are working with currently.

Sidenote: Another useful representation is the minimal polynomial + 
exact bounds (maybe interval field element?) for a root location.


I implemented a proof of concept of such a field once where all elements
were displayed as their minimal polynomial + bounds for the root 
location. Arithmetic operations like addition or multiplication can
be defined for the root polynomial. What is harder are the root location 
bounds (+ irreducible parts of the polynomial) which have to

be recalculated I suppose.


Best
Jonas

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[Volker Braun]

Confirmed, this is http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18891

Run "sage -i jmol" to fix it for now.


On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 7:14:03 PM UTC+2, rt. wrote:
>
> this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
> functions works well with only 3d plot failed.
> As I excute the following command:
>
> sage: var('x,y')
> sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi))
>
> it returns :
>
> /usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
>  
> RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
> failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
> see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details
>   RichReprWarning,
> Graphics3d Object
>
> Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed nothing
> maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these days, 
> thanks to any help very much.
> If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know what's 
> neesded.
>
> Thanks very much!
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Nathann Cohen]

> I agree with Simon, although finding a nice expression like sqrt(2)+3^(1/3)
> can be very costly deppending on how the algebraic number was constructed.

Yepyep. As Simon said we cannot always express algebraic numbers in
such a nice way, though. Well, if you want to build such an object
*in Sage* then you must describe your value somehow, and it is also
stored internally somewhere.. And I wonder how, and whether we can
base the representation on this internal version of the value :-)

> Anyways we could have such an expression for the cases where it is evident
> from the number construction.

+1

> Related to that, i think the current 17? digits are way too much for a
> visually nice representation. I would prefear to see 1.4142... than
> 1.414213562373095?  inside an expression.

+1. It would also lessen the odds of having people believe that it is
stored as a float (with possibly many, but finitely many, digits)

Nathann

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[mmarco]

I agree with Simon, although finding a nice expression like sqrt(2)+3^(1/3) 
can be very costly deppending on how the algebraic number was constructed. 
Anyways we could have such an expression for the cases where it is evident 
from the number construction.

Related to that, i think the current 17? digits are way too much for a 
visually nice representation. I would prefear to see 1.4142... than 
1.414213562373095?  
inside an expression.

El lunes, 13 de julio de 2015, 19:15:40 (UTC+2), Simon King escribió:
>
> Hi! 
>
> On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen > wrote: 
> > sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element 
> > sqrt(2) 
> > sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value 
> > 1.414213562373095? 
> > 
> > It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some 
> additional 
> > digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact. 
> > 
> > How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we 
> always 
> > provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' 
> at least 
> > when it is free to do so? 
>
> The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you 
> probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, in 
> general, not be expressed that nicely. But it seems like an appealing 
> idea to show a nice expression for algebraic numbers of degree up to 4. 
>
> > If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what 
> would you 
> > think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more 
> > informative, e.g.: 
>
> 1.4142134... looks exact to me: "..." seems to suggest that Sage knows all 
> (potentially infinitely many) digits but can't show them all, whereas "?" 
> seems 
> to suggest that the last shown digit is questionable (i.e., subject to 
> rounding 
> errors), i.e., "?" seems to suggest that Sage doesn't know the exact 
> value. 
>
> So, I'd prefer to display elements of QQbar as floating point numbers 
> (what default precision?), always rounded DOWN to the last digit that is 
> displayed, and followed by "..." (not "?") unless the displayed value is 
> exact. So, what is displayed is an initial part of the potentially 
> infinite sequence of digits. 
>
> Best regards, 
> Simon 
>
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Simon King]

Hi!

On 2015-07-13, Nathann Cohen  wrote:
> sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element
> sqrt(2)
> sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value
> 1.414213562373095?
>
> It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some additional
> digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact.
>
> How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we always
> provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' at 
> least
> when it is free to do so?

The elements of QQbar are the solutions of algebraic equations. As you
probably know, the solutions of algebraic equations of degree > 4 can, in
general, not be expressed that nicely. But it seems like an appealing
idea to show a nice expression for algebraic numbers of degree up to 4.

> If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what would you
> think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more
> informative, e.g.:

1.4142134... looks exact to me: "..." seems to suggest that Sage knows all
(potentially infinitely many) digits but can't show them all, whereas "?" seems
to suggest that the last shown digit is questionable (i.e., subject to rounding
errors), i.e., "?" seems to suggest that Sage doesn't know the exact value.

So, I'd prefer to display elements of QQbar as floating point numbers
(what default precision?), always rounded DOWN to the last digit that is
displayed, and followed by "..." (not "?") unless the displayed value is
exact. So, what is displayed is an initial part of the potentially
infinite sequence of digits.

Best regards,
Simon


-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] sage 6.7 failed to load jmol to display 3d object

[rt.]

this is a newly built version together with gentoo, while the other 
functions works well with only 3d plot failed.
As I excute the following command:

sage: var('x,y')
sage: plot3d(sin(x*y), (x, -pi, pi), (y, -pi, pi))

it returns :

/usr/lib64/python2.7/site-packages/sage/repl/rich_output/display_manager.py:561:
 
RichReprWarning: Exception in _rich_repr_ while displaying object: Jmol 
failed to create file '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/dir_W9ZHtR/preview.png', 
see '/root/.sage/temp/rt./12958/tmp_KGOIjb.txt' for details
  RichReprWarning,
Graphics3d Object

Not knowing what's going wrong, I have rebuild Jmol, but it changed nothing
maybe I can find the solution or reason here, and just around these days, 
thanks to any help very much.
If needed, more information would be provided (as now I don't know what's 
neesded.

Thanks very much!

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Algebraic numbers: the '?' could be more informative (e.g.: 1.4142?)

[Nathann Cohen]

Hello everybody!

In a recent thread [1], Nils Bruin mentionned that the default representation of
algebraic numbers does not really inspire trust:

sage: sqrt(2) # a symbolic ring element
sqrt(2)
sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # an algebraic value
1.414213562373095?

It is true that this final '?' sounds more like a '...', as if some additional
digits were hidden in a value stored as a float/double. Yet it is exact.

How could we replace it? Ideally, that would be a 'sqrt(2)' but can we always
provide such a representation cheaply? Could we display it as 'sqrt(2)' at least
when it is free to do so?

If we cannot get rid totally of this numerical representation, what would you
think of replacing this '?' by a 'alg', which would be (slightly) more
informative, e.g.:

sage: QQbar(sqrt(2)) # still not very trust-inspiring
1.414213562373095alg

Thaaanks,

Nathann

P.S.: If you know a word which means "that inspires trust", please
share it (in private :-P)

[1] https://groups.google.com/d/msg/sage-support/b6OinTC9mdk/Y_SLTILRI9kJ

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Heuristics to approximate matrix bandwidth

[Thierry Dumont]

Le 13/07/2015 10:36, michele.bora...@imtlucca.it a écrit :

Hi all!
My name is Michele Borassi, and I recently entered this great community
for a Google Summer of Code project.
Among other works, I am including in Sage an algorithm for computing the
Cuthill-McKee and the King orderings [1,2], which are heuristics used to
approximate the bandwidth of a graph [3] (ticket 18876, [4]). Since the
bandwidth of a graph is the bandwidth of its adjacency matrix, maybe
these algorithms might be useful also in the matrix context. However,
before including them, since I work with graphs and I know very little
about matrix algorithms, I have some doubts:

  * Are these algorithm really interesting for matrix analysis?
  * In case, where and how should I include these algorithms?
  * If it is more complicated than this), could you provide more
information? For instance, if you need related routines, like
permuting rows and columns according to these orderings, or maybe
you would like to integrate this work with other algorithms. In
case, I might open a new ticket that takes care of all these things.


Hi,
These methods have been widely used for the solution of large linear 
systems one encounter in the discretization of Partial Differential 
Equations; these systems are sparse (O(n) non zeros for an order n); the 
factorizations (LU, Cholesky) create  new non zeros terms inside the 
band. So reducing  the band width is a necessity.
Nowadays, direct methods for  sparse systems (SuperLU, Mumps)  are based 
on more sophisticated ideas (like nested dissection).


The Cuthill-Mac Kee algorithm (actually the reverse Cuthill-Mac Kee 
version) is implemented in scipy (scipy.sparse.csgraph improvements).


I think this is the right place for this.

Yours
t.d.

For any other comment, doubt, or suggestion, please feel free to contact
me!

Thank you very much for your help!

Best,

Michele


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuthill%E2%80%93McKee_algorithm

[2] http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_58_0/libs/graph/doc/king_ordering.html

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_bandwidth

[4] http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18876

--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google
Groups "sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send
an email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com
.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.


--
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
<>

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Build system changes in 6.8.beta7

[mmarco]

In gentoo, for instance, there is a file that you edit to add the licenses that 
you accept. That way the package manager knows which packages can be installed 
and which can't.

I don't know if that kind of system would work for sage, but it does work 
pretty well for gentoo.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Server Relocation

[William Stein]

On Monday, July 13, 2015, R. Andrew Ohana  wrote:

>
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 6:02 AM, Jeroen Demeyer  > wrote:
>
>> On 2015-07-12 03:40, R. Andrew Ohana wrote:
>>
>>> In addition, boxen.math.washington.edu
>>>  will finally be going offline, and
>>> due to lack of space won't be coming back (at least for now).
>>>
>>
>> Important question: what will happen with the data currently stored on
>> boxen? Will you transfer it to the new machine?
>>
>
> It depends on what you mean by data currently on boxen. Do you mean things
> under /home? If so then that will still be accessible on
> geom.math.washington.edu and mod.math.washington.edu for the time being,
> as it actually a network filesystem being exported from another machine.
>
> My plan is to mount it as read only for a bit on the new machines, but
> after a period of time (probably a couple of months) the storage machine of
> the current/old sage cluster will be repurposed as a backup machine, at
> which point I'll make a final snapshot of the /home directory on an
> external usb drive.
>
>
> Anything lying on the root and scratch filesystems on boxen will be wiped.
>

Don't wipe it.  Instead archive it to an external usb drive. I have a bunch
of large Ian drives in my office.



>
>> --
>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
>> "sage-devel" group.
>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
>> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
>> 
>> .
>> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com
>> .
>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>>
>
>
>
> --
> Andrew
>
> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com
> 
> .
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com
> .
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>


-- 
Sent from my massive iPhone 6 plus.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: local failure of tests/startup.py doctest

[Ralf Stephan]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 1:49:25 PM UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote:
>
> Do you have "pdb" directory in your current working directory, or 
> something like that?
>

Ah yes, I had "pdb.py" and "pdb.pyc" from earlier unrelated sessions.
Quite an accident, but you can see it happens.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Volker Braun]

True, but in practice its easy to have a matrix result hang off an 
@cached_method.



On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:15:07 PM UTC+2, Simon King wrote:
>
> Hi Volker and Jori, 
>
> On 2015-07-13, Volker Braun > wrote: 
> > For every matrix dimension there is a parent (MatrixSpace). You are 
> most=20 
> > likely seeing those. Use @fork / @parallel. 
>
> MatrixSpace is supposed to use a weak cache. Hence, if you drop all 
> matrices of a given dimension and base ring, then the corresponding 
> matrix space is supposed to be deallocated. If it isn't, then it's a 
> bug. 
>
> Best regards, 
> Simon 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: a sage bug

[Volker Braun]

Tor works in China (you might have to manually configure a bridge 
https://bridges.torproject.org). It also works great for circumventing 
censorship by European and American universities for that matter.



On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 12:08:02 PM UTC+2, Simon King wrote:
>
> Hi Volker, 
>
> On 2015-07-13, Volker Braun > wrote: 
> > You can use tor (https://www.torproject.org) to access the entire 
> internet 
> > or gmane (http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel) 
> > specifically for sage-devel. 
>
> I wouldn't be surprised if they blocked tor, too (and of course anybody 
> who uses tor automatically becomes suspect). And I have seen at several 
> European and US-American universities that the web is configured in such 
> a way that using gmane via slrn doesn't work (but I don't know if they 
> just block slrn or also block using gmane in a web browser). 
>
> Best regards, 
> Simon 
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: local failure of tests/startup.py doctest

[Volker Braun]

Do you have "pdb" directory in your current working directory, or something 
like that?




On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 11:12:20 AM UTC+2, Ralf Stephan wrote:
>
> Oops, rather:
> >>> from sage.all import *
> Traceback (most recent call last):
>   File "", line 1, in 
>   File "/home/ralf/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/all.py", 
> line 84, in 
> from sage.misc.all   import * # takes a while
>   File 
> "/home/ralf/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/all.py", line 
> 4, in 
> from misc import (alarm, cancel_alarm,
>   File 
> "/home/ralf/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/misc.py", line 
> 2002, in 
> import pdb
>   File "pdb.py", line 2, in 
> pdb.set_trace()
> AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'set_trace'
> >
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Jori Mäntysalo]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Nils Bruin wrote:


A little bisection shows that the leak is caused by calling "eigenvalues".


Can you make a ticket with minimal example demonstrating bug?

--
Jori Mäntysalo

[sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Simon King]

Hi Volker and Jori,

On 2015-07-13, Volker Braun  wrote:
> For every matrix dimension there is a parent (MatrixSpace). You are most=20
> likely seeing those. Use @fork / @parallel.

MatrixSpace is supposed to use a weak cache. Hence, if you drop all
matrices of a given dimension and base ring, then the corresponding
matrix space is supposed to be deallocated. If it isn't, then it's a
bug.

Best regards,
Simon

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Nils Bruin]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 10:51:09 AM UTC+2, Nils Bruin wrote:
>
>
> so I'd think there's a leak in constructing univar_pd. My guess would be a 
> cached routine that shouldn't be cached.
>
A little bisection shows that the leak is caused by calling "eigenvalues". 

However

L=[c for c in gc.get_objects() if type(c) is 
sage.rings.polynomial.polynomial_compiled.univar_pd]
objgraph.show_backrefs(L[1000],filename="test.png")

seems to show that the only reference that's findable by python's gc is the 
one from L! So the leak in this case might be due to a refcounting error 
(or a reference to a python object held by something outside the scope of 
the python memory manager). Or I've overlooked some subtle issue.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: local failure of tests/startup.py doctest

[Ralf Stephan]

Oops, rather:
>>> from sage.all import *
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
  File "/home/ralf/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/all.py", 
line 84, in 
from sage.misc.all   import * # takes a while
  File 
"/home/ralf/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/all.py", line 
4, in 
from misc import (alarm, cancel_alarm,
  File 
"/home/ralf/sage/local/lib/python2.7/site-packages/sage/misc/misc.py", line 
2002, in 
import pdb
  File "pdb.py", line 2, in 
pdb.set_trace()
AttributeError: 'module' object has no attribute 'set_trace'
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: local failure of tests/startup.py doctest

[Ralf Stephan]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 10:45:20 AM UTC+2, Volker Braun wrote:
>
> Never seen that before. What do you get when you run it manually?
>
>>
>> Python 2.7.9 (default, May 28 2015, 07:15:13) 
[GCC 4.8.3 20140627 [gcc-4_8-branch revision 212064]] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> print('IPython' in sys.modules)
Traceback (most recent call last):
  File "", line 1, in 
NameError: name 'sys' is not defined
 

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Jori Mäntysalo]

On Mon, 13 Jul 2015, Volker Braun wrote:

For every matrix dimension there is a parent (MatrixSpace). You are most 
likely seeing those.


But they have the same size. 7 x 7 on my example code.

--
Jori Mäntysalo

[sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Nils Bruin]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 10:39:17 AM UTC+2, Ralf Stephan wrote:
>
> As quick hint I would use valgrind for the search.
> http://wiki.sagemath.org/ValgrindingSage
>

Does valgrind understand python memory layout? most leaks in sage are due 
to lingering references and hence are detectable by python. If I run:

import gc
from collections import Counter
gc.collect()
pre={id(c) for c in gc.get_objects()}

n = 5
m = Integer(n*(n-1)/2)
for i in IntegerRange(2^m):
 d = i.digits(base=2, padto=m)
 l = [[1]+[0]*(n-1)]
 for j in range(n-1):
 l.append( d[(j+1)*j/2:(j+1)*(j+2)/2]+ [1] + [0]*(n-j-2) )
 M = Matrix(l)
 eig = sorted((M*M.transpose()).eigenvalues())[0]
 if eig <= 0:
 print "Foobar" 

gc.collect()
post=Counter(type(o) for o in gc.get_objects() if id(o) not in pre)
sorted(post.iteritems(),key=lambda t: t[1])

I find:

...
[(, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (,
  1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 1),
 (, 3),
 (, 4),
 (, 6),
 (, 6),
 (, 6),
 (, 6),
 (, 7),
 (, 9),
 (, 11),
 (, 29),
 (, 32),
 (, 6273)]
...

so I'd think there's a leak in constructing univar_pd. My guess would be a 
cached routine that shouldn't be cached.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Volker Braun]

For every matrix dimension there is a parent (MatrixSpace). You are most 
likely seeing those. Use @fork / @parallel.






On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 9:44:01 AM UTC+2, Jori Mäntysalo wrote:
>
> I was asked to make a code that iterates over all matrices of given type 
> and size. And once again I see a memory leak. Here's an example code 
>
> n = 7 
> m = Integer(n*(n-1)/2) 
> for i in IntegerRange(2^m): 
>  d = i.digits(base=2, padto=m) 
>  l = [[1]+[0]*(n-1)] 
>  for j in range(n-1): 
>  l.append( d[(j+1)*j/2:(j+1)*(j+2)/2]+ [1] + [0]*(n-j-2) ) 
>  M = Matrix(l) 
>  eig = sorted((M*M.transpose()).eigenvalues())[0] 
>  if eig <= 0: 
>  print "Foobar" 
>
> These kind of codes, where I make millions of small objects, compute 
> something and discard the object, seems to eat memory. Not much, but so 
> much that otherwise reasonable computable thing - say, something to run 
> for two days - will be impossible to do directly. 
>
> Is there anything I can do for these? (Other than running the code 
> part-by-part.) 
>
> This was ran on newest beta version. 
>
> -- 
> Jori Mäntysalo 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: local failure of tests/startup.py doctest

[Volker Braun]

Never seen that before. What do you get when you run it manually?

$ sage --python
Python 2.7.9 (default, Jul  5 2015, 10:21:02) 
[GCC 5.1.1 20150618 (Red Hat 5.1.1-4)] on linux2
Type "help", "copyright", "credits" or "license" for more information.
>>> from sage.all import *
>>> print('IPython' in sys.modules)
False




On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 10:36:21 AM UTC+2, Ralf Stephan wrote:
>
> What could be the reason for 
>
> File "src/sage/tests/startup.py", line 17, in sage.tests.startup
> Failed example:
> print test_executable(["sage", "--python"], cmd)[0]  # long time
> Expected:
> False
> Got:
> 
>
>
> which happens here in the two latest devel versions,
> not sure when it started, I don't want to recompile half
> a dozen versions. System is OpenSuSE.
>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Heuristics to approximate matrix bandwidth

[michele . borassi]

Hi all!
My name is Michele Borassi, and I recently entered this great community for 
a Google Summer of Code project.
Among other works, I am including in Sage an algorithm for computing the 
Cuthill-McKee and the King orderings [1,2], which are heuristics used to 
approximate the bandwidth of a graph [3] (ticket 18876, [4]). Since the 
bandwidth of a graph is the bandwidth of its adjacency matrix, maybe these 
algorithms might be useful also in the matrix context. However, before 
including them, since I work with graphs and I know very little about 
matrix algorithms, I have some doubts:

   - Are these algorithm really interesting for matrix analysis?
   - In case, where and how should I include these algorithms?
   - If it is more complicated than this), could you provide more 
   information? For instance, if you need related routines, like permuting 
   rows and columns according to these orderings, or maybe you would like to 
   integrate this work with other algorithms. In case, I might open a new 
   ticket that takes care of all these things.

For any other comment, doubt, or suggestion, please feel free to contact 
me! 

Thank you very much for your help!

Best,

Michele


[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cuthill%E2%80%93McKee_algorithm

[2] http://www.boost.org/doc/libs/1_58_0/libs/graph/doc/king_ordering.html

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graph_bandwidth

[4] http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/18876

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Re: Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Ralf Stephan]

On Monday, July 13, 2015 at 9:44:01 AM UTC+2, Jori Mäntysalo wrote:
>
> Is there anything I can do for these? (Other than running the code 
> part-by-part.) 
>

As quick hint I would use valgrind for the search.
http://wiki.sagemath.org/ValgrindingSage

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] local failure of tests/startup.py doctest

[Ralf Stephan]

What could be the reason for 

File "src/sage/tests/startup.py", line 17, in sage.tests.startup
Failed example:
print test_executable(["sage", "--python"], cmd)[0]  # long time
Expected:
False
Got:



which happens here in the two latest devel versions,
not sure when it started, I don't want to recompile half
a dozen versions. System is OpenSuSE.

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Announcing $0M in new funding for the SageMathCloud over the next 3 years

[Nathann Cohen]

> there were unconfirmed reports of an 1-person demonstration in front of the
> US Embassy
> in Paris, with a banner saying "Sage Days are a waste of US taxpayer's
> money! Stop them now!"

Don't trust anybody who claims to have seen me in Paris. They are liars.

Though on the other hand that would prove one point: that anybody can
voice his/her own opinion, and yet be heard. There is no need of
indirect representation here as everybody can post freely, and so I do
not want to be made to talk against my will, encompassed in the set of
"european developers", "developers of combinatorics code", or whatever
may come next.

I do not trust representatives (least of all self-appointed), and with
good reasons. I would be surprised if most of you did (*).

Have fun,

Nathann

(*) In France they believe that the people wants to be monitored
US-style, nowadays. Who wouldn't?

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

[sage-devel] Memory leaks on matrix creation?

[Jori Mäntysalo]

I was asked to make a code that iterates over all matrices of given type 
and size. And once again I see a memory leak. Here's an example code


n = 7
m = Integer(n*(n-1)/2)
for i in IntegerRange(2^m):
d = i.digits(base=2, padto=m)
l = [[1]+[0]*(n-1)]
for j in range(n-1):
l.append( d[(j+1)*j/2:(j+1)*(j+2)/2]+ [1] + [0]*(n-j-2) )
M = Matrix(l)
eig = sorted((M*M.transpose()).eigenvalues())[0]
if eig <= 0:
print "Foobar"

These kind of codes, where I make millions of small objects, compute 
something and discard the object, seems to eat memory. Not much, but so 
much that otherwise reasonable computable thing - say, something to run 
for two days - will be impossible to do directly.


Is there anything I can do for these? (Other than running the code 
part-by-part.)


This was ran on newest beta version.

--
Jori Mäntysalo

Re: [sage-devel] Re: a sage bug

[Volker Braun]

You can use tor (https://www.torproject.org) to access the entire internet 
or gmane (http://dir.gmane.org/gmane.comp.mathematics.sage.devel) 
specifically for sage-devel.

Realistically, the Chinese government is always going to block mass 
communication utilities that are not under their control; So if gmane is 
not blocked then thats only because they are too small to be noticed.





On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 11:39:20 PM UTC+2, William wrote:
>
> Thanks Ralf! 
>
> By the way, does anybody know what the deal is with: "Please forgive 
> me to send it to you for I am in China and have a problem to access 
> Google groups." 
>
> Do most people in China really not have access to Google groups?  If 
> so, that's a very good reason for us to consider at least some sort of 
> alternative way to access the groups. 
>
>  -- William 
>
> On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 12:08 PM, Ralf Stephan  > wrote: 
> > On Sunday, July 12, 2015 at 2:34:56 PM UTC+2, Stein William wrote: 
> >> -- Forwarded message -- 
> >> From: ruiming zhang  
> >> Date: Sunday, July 12, 2015 
> >> Subject: a sage bug 
> >> To: wst...@math.washington.edu 
> >> 
> >> ... 
> >> e=x+1<=x-2 
> >> e*(-1) 
> >> -x-1<=-x+2, 
> > 
> > This is known and has a fix. Only the review is missing. 
> > 
> > If someone wants to review the fix, please see this ticket: 
> > http://trac.sagemath.org/ticket/7660 
> > 
> > Regards, 
> > 
> > -- 
> > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google 
> Groups "sage-devel" group. 
> > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send 
> an email to sage-devel+...@googlegroups.com . 
> > To post to this group, send email to sage-...@googlegroups.com 
> . 
> > Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel. 
> > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. 
>
>
>
> -- 
> William (http://wstein.org) 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Announcing $0M in new funding for the SageMathCloud over the next 3 years

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Monday, 13 July 2015 08:16:22 UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote:
>
> > Nicolas did not put 'the' after 'we'; do not twist his words please. 
> > What he wrote is a correct statement. 
>
> You are amazing, guys. 
>
>
there were unconfirmed reports of an 1-person demonstration in front of the 
US Embassy
in Paris, with a banner saying "Sage Days are a waste of US taxpayer's 
money! Stop them now!"

Probably that's why William had no luck with NSF lately.



 

> Nathann 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Announcing $0M in new funding for the SageMathCloud over the next 3 years

[Nathann Cohen]

> Nicolas did not put 'the' after 'we'; do not twist his words please.
> What he wrote is a correct statement.

You are amazing, guys.

Nathann

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Announcing $0M in new funding for the SageMathCloud over the next 3 years

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Monday, 13 July 2015 08:11:45 UTC+1, Dima Pasechnik wrote:
>
>
>
> On Sunday, 12 July 2015 20:59:40 UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote:
>>
>> > We, European devs, have benefited from NSF funding for Sage in 
>> > numerous occasions (Sage days, visits, ...) when we had no funding 
>> > here. 
>>
>> You are speaking in your own name only. You are not the "Europeans 
>> Devs", are are not entitled to speak in their name. 
>>
>> Nicolas did not put 'the' after 'we'; do not twist his words please.
> What he wrote is a correct statement.
>

and, by the way, Nathann, you do use Sage code that was developed with NFS
funding, and thus benefit from it, so your point is really, really moot... 


>
>
>  
>
>> Nathann 
>>
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Server Relocation

[R. Andrew Ohana]

On Sun, Jul 12, 2015 at 6:02 AM, Jeroen Demeyer 
wrote:

> On 2015-07-12 03:40, R. Andrew Ohana wrote:
>
>> In addition, boxen.math.washington.edu
>>  will finally be going offline, and
>> due to lack of space won't be coming back (at least for now).
>>
>
> Important question: what will happen with the data currently stored on
> boxen? Will you transfer it to the new machine?
>

It depends on what you mean by data currently on boxen. Do you mean things
under /home? If so then that will still be accessible on
geom.math.washington.edu and mod.math.washington.edu for the time being, as
it actually a network filesystem being exported from another machine.

My plan is to mount it as read only for a bit on the new machines, but
after a period of time (probably a couple of months) the storage machine of
the current/old sage cluster will be repurposed as a backup machine, at
which point I'll make a final snapshot of the /home directory on an
external usb drive.


Anything lying on the root and scratch filesystems on boxen will be wiped.


> --
> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups
> "sage-devel" group.
> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an
> email to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
> To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
>



-- 
Andrew

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.

Re: [sage-devel] Announcing $0M in new funding for the SageMathCloud over the next 3 years

[Dima Pasechnik]

On Sunday, 12 July 2015 20:59:40 UTC+1, Nathann Cohen wrote:
>
> > We, European devs, have benefited from NSF funding for Sage in 
> > numerous occasions (Sage days, visits, ...) when we had no funding 
> > here. 
>
> You are speaking in your own name only. You are not the "Europeans 
> Devs", are are not entitled to speak in their name. 
>
> Nicolas did not put 'the' after 'we'; do not twist his words please.
What he wrote is a correct statement.



 

> Nathann 
>

-- 
You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups 
"sage-devel" group.
To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email 
to sage-devel+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com.
To post to this group, send email to sage-devel@googlegroups.com.
Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/sage-devel.
For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.