RE: OT: suggestion! (was Re: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!!)
-Original Message- From: Robert Adkins II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I have read a few more of your responses. It appears that you believe wholeheartedly that your more advanced questions are going unanswered simply because of the volume of lower skilled questions. I see it go both ways. The really interesting problems that uncover new bugs in the Samba code generally get a lot of attention. (Sometimes forwarding them to samba-technical can be productive, incidentally.) The easy problems generally get answered eventually, too, even if it's just with a pointer to the right section of the manual. It's the ones in between, the tricky problems that are difficult to work out, but probably not actual bugs, that sometimes tend to languish unanswered. -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: OT: suggestion! (was Re: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!!)
On Mon, 17 Feb 2003, David Brodbeck wrote: -Original Message- From: Robert Adkins II [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] I have read a few more of your responses. It appears that you believe wholeheartedly that your more advanced questions are going unanswered simply because of the volume of lower skilled questions. I see it go both ways. The really interesting problems that uncover new bugs in the Samba code generally get a lot of attention. (Sometimes forwarding them to samba-technical can be productive, incidentally.) Obviously, any real bugs need to be fixed asap. Many bugs are NOT interesting - just a right royal pain! The easy problems generally get answered eventually, too, even if it's just with a pointer to the right section of the manual. I can not speak for anyone else, but my approach is to look carefully at the posting (typically about 10 seconds). I answer if: - the user is new and shows they have tried to solve the problem - the user is experienced and made an obvious error - some else's help is wrong - the problem is not well documented either in samba code or through the mailing list archives - the problem pertains to something I can contribute something to I do NOT answer if the answer can be readily found. This demonstrates that the enquirer is lazy and wants to abuse my time and energy. It's the ones in between, the tricky problems that are difficult to work out, but probably not actual bugs, that sometimes tend to languish unanswered. You will note that sometimes I do NOT provide the answer, but I do ask a question that contains the answer. Example: Recently someone who had a clear name resolution problem was not using WINS. They did not want to use WINS: I do NOT have time to educate every subscriber who does NOT WANT to use WINS as to it's benefits in a NetBIOS over TCP/IP environment. Some of my help in this area has gone on for over 10 interchanges - and I am tired of that. So I simply sent back a reply that asked Why are you sure you do not want to use WINS? - from that point forward it's up to the recipient to do some more home work. From my analysis of my January respsonses the average time I spent per reply was around 13 minutes. Most replies take about 1-2 minutes, but a few too MUCH longer. Several took over 1 hour. I do carefully take note of problem areas and then try to capture useful hints and answers. These get fed back into documentation. Most of the new documentation is going into Samba-3.0.0. Hopefully the 3.0.0 release will set a new standard in helpful documentation. We need to be realistic though: the new documentation will largely close gaps in older samba functionality. It will take a while to prepare and include this same level of utility in documentation pertaining to new features. This is a slow but beneficial process and is a key reason why I often ask people who have solved a problem to document their solution and to contribute it. Unfortunately, most people we help do NOT contribute back in this manner (but human nature is like that). - John T. -- John H Terpstra Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
Re: OT: suggestion! (was Re: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!!)
--- Kurt Weiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wow / i did newer see such a response to a theme as in this case! :-O Yeah, it actually had the opposite effect of what I was begging people to do :-P here's a suggestion: i did send (in a view cases) a short message to this 'NEWBEES' with important internet links, such as: (e.g.) http://www.samba.org/samba/ml-etiquette.html http://hr.uoregon.edu/davidrl/samba/ http://at.samba.org/samba/docs/ As did I. The message I wanted to get across was, Help yourself, this is why... This is how I help myself; here are ALL of the resources I've used! It just was misunderstood, I believe. I thought I was doing a service, but as I read it again, it looked like an angry slam, not what I hoped. Why can't we all get video email so inflections can be easier seen? (-: I actually spend more time with my email client helping newbies with greatly detailed letters than any other thing. A slam wasn't intended, and I'm sorry I was misunderstood. /dev/idal __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: OT: suggestion! (was Re: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!!)
Chris, I have read a few more of your responses. It appears that you believe wholeheartedly that your more advanced questions are going unanswered simply because of the volume of lower skilled questions. Well, how do you know that there are enough people on the mailing list that have experienced the more advanced issues you are experiencing? Then, out of those people, how many of those do you believe will take their time to answer your questions? It is likely that the number is quite low. While I don't consider myself an expert with Samba, I can answer a few advanced questions and a glut of basic questions. When I was in the midst of configuring the domain controllers we are using, I read and answered dozens upon dozens of questions, newbie and otherwise. However, since I now have my issues resolved, I answer far fewer questions then I did previously. I believe that is very common amongst users that move beyond the basics of Samba and most other services. Once they have the majority of their issues resolved, they move one. So, it is likely that if all the Newbs started researching from the get go and rarely ever posted to the Samba list with their basic questions, you would still find your more advanced questions go unanswered. That's just the way things go. I would like to apologize for the feather ruffling that I have done regarding this issue. I didn't have all the information behind your issue until I read a few of your posts after the flames I started fanning. I wish you the best with finding the answers to your more advanced questions. I know that many of mine go unanswered and that is just the way it goes. Regards, Robert Adkins II IT Manager/Buyer Impel Industries, Inc. 586-254-5800 -Original Message- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Chris de Vidal Sent: Friday, February 14, 2003 9:16 AM To: Kurt Weiss Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Re: OT: suggestion! (was Re: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!!) --- Kurt Weiss [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: wow / i did newer see such a response to a theme as in this case! :-O Yeah, it actually had the opposite effect of what I was begging people to do :-P here's a suggestion: i did send (in a view cases) a short message to this 'NEWBEES' with important internet links, such as: (e.g.) http://www.samba.org/samba/ml-etiquette.html http://hr.uoregon.edu/davidrl/samba/ http://at.samba.org/samba/docs/ As did I. The message I wanted to get across was, Help yourself, this is why... This is how I help myself; here are ALL of the resources I've used! It just was misunderstood, I believe. I thought I was doing a service, but as I read it again, it looked like an angry slam, not what I hoped. Why can't we all get video email so inflections can be easier seen? (-: I actually spend more time with my email client helping newbies with greatly detailed letters than any other thing. A slam wasn't intended, and I'm sorry I was misunderstood. /dev/idal __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
RE: OT: suggestion! (was Re: [Samba] !!ATTENTION NEWBIES!!)
--- Robert Adkins II [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I have read a few more of your responses. It appears that you believe wholeheartedly that your more advanced questions are going unanswered simply because of the volume of lower skilled questions. That was but one of the 5 points I was making. The other four: 1. Newbies, your questions will often go unanswered 2. Help yourself, here's how 3. Developers are likely to be overwhelmed by the volume of simple questions. I'd much rather have them improve Samba than answer how do I mount an NT share for the 20th time. 4. It's just disrespectful when they went to alot of work writing documents. Well, how do you know that there are enough people on the mailing list that have experienced the more advanced issues you are experiencing? Then, out of those people, how many of those do you believe will take their time to answer your questions? It is likely that the number is quite low. You really must know what questions I'd asked to say that. Please don't assume. I would like to apologize for the feather ruffling that I have done regarding this issue. I didn't have all the information behind your issue until I read a few of your posts after the flames I started fanning. Thanks, Robert! Apology accepted. Please accept my apology for being arrogant at your responses. I _really_did_ want to help, not bash. /dev/idal __ Do you Yahoo!? Yahoo! Shopping - Send Flowers for Valentine's Day http://shopping.yahoo.com -- To unsubscribe from this list go to the following URL and read the instructions: http://lists.samba.org/mailman/listinfo/samba
