Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Hinz, David (GE Healthcare)]

I respectfully suggest that your sentence is equally correct if you leave off 
the last two words.


From:  on behalf of "ONeal, 
Miles" 
Date: Tuesday, November 27, 2018 at 2:31 PM
To: Jon Brinkmann , Akemi Yagi 
Cc: Bonnie King , "scientific-linux-users@fnal.gov" 

Subject: EXT: Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

Office365 has had all sorts of problems this month.

On 11/27/2018 02:27 PM, Jon Brinkmann wrote:

Yes, me too.  After more than a decade of subscribership with no problems!

I think FNAL's "filter" is way too sensitive:  it cited bounced messages due to

FNAL errors from three months ago as part of the reason for the unsubscription!

The period should be no more than a week and it should ignore errors caused

by the FNAL servers.



On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 01:02:50AM -0800, Akemi Yagi wrote:

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:43 AM Bonnie King 
<mailto:bonn...@fnal.gov> wrote:

Hello,



Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue

between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list

has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.

--

Bonnie King

The problem is back?  I just received the "Your removal from the

SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS list" message. I then joined the list and am

now sending this mail.



Akemi


--
Miles O'Neal
CAD Systems Engineer
Cirrus Logic | cirrus.com | 1.512.851.4659
[cid:part1.0B30D9CF.6F1B0C72@cirrus.com]

Re: [EXTERNAL] Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[ONeal, Miles]

Office365 has had all sorts of problems this month.

On 11/27/2018 02:27 PM, Jon Brinkmann wrote:

Yes, me too.  After more than a decade of subscribership with no problems!
I think FNAL's "filter" is way too sensitive:  it cited bounced messages due to
FNAL errors from three months ago as part of the reason for the unsubscription!
The period should be no more than a week and it should ignore errors caused
by the FNAL servers.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 01:02:50AM -0800, Akemi Yagi wrote:


On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:43 AM Bonnie King 
 wrote:



Hello,

Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue
between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list
has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.
--
Bonnie King



The problem is back?  I just received the "Your removal from the
SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS list" message. I then joined the list and am
now sending this mail.

Akemi



--
Miles O'Neal
CAD Systems Engineer
Cirrus Logic | cirrus.com | 1.512.851.4659
[cid:part1.0B30D9CF.6F1B0C72@cirrus.com]

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Jon Brinkmann]

Yes, me too.  After more than a decade of subscribership with no problems!
I think FNAL's "filter" is way too sensitive:  it cited bounced messages due to
FNAL errors from three months ago as part of the reason for the unsubscription!
The period should be no more than a week and it should ignore errors caused
by the FNAL servers.

On Tue, Nov 27, 2018 at 01:02:50AM -0800, Akemi Yagi wrote:
> On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:43 AM Bonnie King  wrote:
> >
> > Hello,
> >
> > Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue
> > between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list
> > has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.
> > --
> > Bonnie King
>
> The problem is back?  I just received the "Your removal from the
> SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS list" message. I then joined the list and am
> now sending this mail.
>
> Akemi

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Akemi Yagi]

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 10:43 AM Bonnie King  wrote:
>
> Hello,
>
> Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue
> between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list
> has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.
> --
> Bonnie King

The problem is back?  I just received the "Your removal from the
SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS list" message. I then joined the list and am
now sending this mail.

Akemi

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[R P Herrold]

On Sat, 17 Nov 2018, Vasili Wylie wrote:

> it is not all about office365, I don't use that and I was kicked off.

somewhat humorously, I too was kicked off over the weekend.  
The accompanying message made it look as through the 'too many 
delayed or bounced pieces' trigger was hit, with a 'look-back 
of three months

That is a configurable setting in Mailman, and may have 
inadvertently been encountered when rolling in a backup and 
not expressly disabling that counter for a few days to let it 
expire old pending non-sends

-- Russ herrold

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Vasili Wylie]

it is not all about office365, I don't use that and I was kicked off.

On Fri, 11/16/18, Paul Richard Thomas  wrote:

 Subject: Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?
 To: bferr...@baywinds.org
 Cc: SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS@fnal.gov
 Date: Friday, November 16, 2018, 11:38 AM
 
 Hi All,
 
 Could somebody explain why this is happening to
 those not versed in
 these problems with
 office365 ?
 
 Is it likely
 that we are losing other emails or is this some
 peculiarity of the Fermilab setup? I
 haven't seen any similar warning
 messages but have suffered sporadically from
 people insisting that
 they sent me mail,
 which I have for sure not received.
 
 Regards
 
 Paul
 Thomas
 On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 17:29, Bruce Ferrell
 
 wrote:
 >
 > On 11/16/18
 9:25 AM, Franchisseur Robert wrote:
 >
 > -- Le (On) 2018-11-16 + à (at)
 10:25:46 Fred Liu écrivit (wrote): --
 >
 > me too
 >
 >        So 
 after  this message I subscribe with an other address 
 for
 >        nothing :(
 >
 >        Two 
 years  ago  I  got  the same  with  a  different 
 diag  :
 >
 > - The
 last  reported error was: 5.6.0 552 5.6.0  Headers too
 large (32768
 > max)
 >
 >
 >
 host fnal.gov
 > fnal.gov has address
 131.225.105.239
 > fnal.gov has IPv6
 address 2620:6a:0:105::105:239
 > fnal.gov
 mail is handled by 10
 fnal-gov.mail.protection.outlook.com.
 >
 > So, yeah, they moved
 the mail relay to office365/outlook
 >
 >
 
 
 -- 
 "If
 you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it
 well enough"
 - Albert
 Einstein

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Konstantin Olchanski]

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 08:05:32PM +, Teh, Kenneth M. wrote:
> ANL just rolled out spf, dkim, and dmarc handling for emails. I've heard that 
> mailman lists don't play with these new requirements. I've spent this past 
> week 
> reconfiguring postfix on my machines and noticed that protection.outlook.com 
> marks my outbound emails as having failed dkim even though gmail says it 
> passed.
> 
> Coud these be related?
> 

I am sure the official party line is "instead of this obsolete email thing,
you should be using Facebook, google circles, or any other proprietary
walled garden with all communications going past the big brother".

K.O.




> 
> On 11/16/18 12:43 PM, Bonnie King wrote:
> > Hello,
> > 
> > Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue
> > between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list
> > has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.
> > 
> > On 11/16/2018 12:40 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
> >> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:
> >>
> >>> The curious thing is that it was an Outlook message whereas the
> >>> receiving email handler is gmail. I would guess, therefore, that the
> >>> problem is occurring at the Fermilab end.
> >>
> >> 'guessing' about causes of failures in the face of a
> >> straightforward explanation, testible by speaking to your
> >> email provider, rather than positing a testible hypothesis
> >> (as I did) seems useless
> >>
> >> -- Russ herrold
> >>
> > 

-- 
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Teh, Kenneth M.]

ANL just rolled out spf, dkim, and dmarc handling for emails. I've heard that 
mailman lists don't play with these new requirements. I've spent this past week 
reconfiguring postfix on my machines and noticed that protection.outlook.com 
marks my outbound emails as having failed dkim even though gmail says it passed.

Coud these be related?


On 11/16/18 12:43 PM, Bonnie King wrote:
> Hello,
> 
> Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue
> between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list
> has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.
> 
> On 11/16/2018 12:40 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
>> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:
>>
>>> The curious thing is that it was an Outlook message whereas the
>>> receiving email handler is gmail. I would guess, therefore, that the
>>> problem is occurring at the Fermilab end.
>>
>> 'guessing' about causes of failures in the face of a
>> straightforward explanation, testible by speaking to your
>> email provider, rather than positing a testible hypothesis
>> (as I did) seems useless
>>
>> -- Russ herrold
>>
> 

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Konstantin Olchanski]

> 
> > The curious thing is that it was an Outlook message whereas the
> > receiving email handler is gmail. I would guess, therefore, that the
> > problem is occurring at the Fermilab end.
> 
> 'guessing' about causes of failures in the face of a 
> straightforward explanation, testible by speaking to your 
> email provider, rather than positing a testible hypothesis 
> (as I did) seems useless
> 

TRIUMF just switched to outlook and to the surprise of no one (except for
the victims) email started going to the spam folders, bouncing and rejecting
for mysterious reasons.

Luckily we have somebody well versed in things "guessing about causes",
"straightforward explanation" and "testible", and he was able to make
it all work ok. Hearing him do it, it did not sound easy or straightforward
or easily testable.

With luck Fermilab has somebody as good and it will all be sorted out.

-- 
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Konstantin Olchanski]

On Fri, Nov 16, 2018 at 05:38:02PM +, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:
> 
> ... those not versed in these problems with office365 ?
> 

One word answer is "Microsoft".

Two word answer is "opaque, mysterious, proprietary" (all synonyms for the same 
thing).

If not for Microsoft, the open source movement would not exist. Think about it.

-- 
Konstantin Olchanski
Data Acquisition Systems: The Bytes Must Flow!
Email: olchansk-at-triumf-dot-ca
Snail mail: 4004 Wesbrook Mall, TRIUMF, Vancouver, B.C., V6T 2A3, Canada

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Bonnie King]

Hello,

Some users were erroneously unsubscribed from the list due to an issue
between the listserv and Fermilab's email provider. The subscriber list
has been restored. Sorry for the inconvenience.

On 11/16/2018 12:40 PM, R P Herrold wrote:
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:
> 
>> The curious thing is that it was an Outlook message whereas the
>> receiving email handler is gmail. I would guess, therefore, that the
>> problem is occurring at the Fermilab end.
> 
> 'guessing' about causes of failures in the face of a 
> straightforward explanation, testible by speaking to your 
> email provider, rather than positing a testible hypothesis 
> (as I did) seems useless
> 
> -- Russ herrold
> 

-- 
Bonnie King

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[R P Herrold]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:

> The curious thing is that it was an Outlook message whereas the
> receiving email handler is gmail. I would guess, therefore, that the
> problem is occurring at the Fermilab end.

'guessing' about causes of failures in the face of a 
straightforward explanation, testible by speaking to your 
email provider, rather than positing a testible hypothesis 
(as I did) seems useless

-- Russ herrold

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Paul Richard Thomas]

Thanks Russ,

The curious thing is that it was an Outlook message whereas the
receiving email handler is gmail. I would guess, therefore, that the
problem is occurring at the Fermilab end.

My gmail account seems to collect all spam coming its way - I check it
about once a week and mark wanted messages appropriately. To be
honest, judging by my own "drafts" mailbox, I suspect that my phantom
messages have never been sent. It's way too easy to get distracted :-)

Regards

Paul

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 18:27, R P Herrold  wrote:
>
> On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:
>
> > Could somebody explain why this is happening to those not versed in
> > these problems with office365 ?
>
> Every receiver of email decides the policies under which it
> will accept it, or indeed, whether it will accept an offered
> piece at all.  Anti-spam defense systems are the most common
> reason offered
>
> The owners of the Office 365 product, and those of Gmail have
> (probably) decided that the content from the list 'looks
> spammy' ... their choice, and that decision is applied on
> behalf of their subscribers.  Also, to avoid 'educating'
> senders of unsolicited email how to evade such restrictions,
> the criteria shift without notice and may get tighter or
> looser, depending on the whim of the email receiver that day
>
>
> The alternative approach is for a email receiver is to simply
> 'mark' such as with a spam-assassin score, their opinion as to
> how 'spammy' something is, and permit the mail user client to
> decide what to do with it
>
> I run under that latter system, and I see this as to your
> question piece:
>
> Return-Path: 
> X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2-r929478
> (2010-03-31) on (elided)
> X-Spam-Level:
> X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,
> DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,
> DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,
> T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2-r929478
>
>
> The theory is that an unhappy subscriber will complain, or go
> elsewhere
>
> These questions should properly be directed to your email
> handling firm (here: Microsoft or Google)
>
> -- Russ herrold



-- 
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
- Albert Einstein

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[R P Herrold]

On Fri, 16 Nov 2018, Paul Richard Thomas wrote:

> Could somebody explain why this is happening to those not versed in
> these problems with office365 ?

Every receiver of email decides the policies under which it 
will accept it, or indeed, whether it will accept an offered 
piece at all.  Anti-spam defense systems are the most common 
reason offered

The owners of the Office 365 product, and those of Gmail have 
(probably) decided that the content from the list 'looks 
spammy' ... their choice, and that decision is applied on 
behalf of their subscribers.  Also, to avoid 'educating' 
senders of unsolicited email how to evade such restrictions, 
the criteria shift without notice and may get tighter or 
looser, depending on the whim of the email receiver that day


The alternative approach is for a email receiver is to simply 
'mark' such as with a spam-assassin score, their opinion as to 
how 'spammy' something is, and permit the mail user client to 
decide what to do with it 

I run under that latter system, and I see this as to your 
question piece:

Return-Path: 
X-Spam-Checker-Version: SpamAssassin 3.3.2-r929478 
(2010-03-31) on (elided)
X-Spam-Level: 
X-Spam-Status: No, score=-0.8 required=4.0 tests=BAYES_00,
DKIM_ADSP_CUSTOM_MED,
DKIM_SIGNED,FREEMAIL_FROM,
T_DKIM_INVALID autolearn=no version=3.3.2-r929478


The theory is that an unhappy subscriber will complain, or go 
elsewhere

These questions should properly be directed to your email 
handling firm (here: Microsoft or Google)

-- Russ herrold

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Paul Richard Thomas]

Hi All,

Could somebody explain why this is happening to those not versed in
these problems with office365 ?

Is it likely that we are losing other emails or is this some
peculiarity of the Fermilab setup? I haven't seen any similar warning
messages but have suffered sporadically from people insisting that
they sent me mail, which I have for sure not received.

Regards

Paul Thomas
On Fri, 16 Nov 2018 at 17:29, Bruce Ferrell  wrote:
>
> On 11/16/18 9:25 AM, Franchisseur Robert wrote:
>
> -- Le (On) 2018-11-16 + à (at) 10:25:46 Fred Liu écrivit (wrote): --
>
> me too
>
>So  after  this message I subscribe with an other address  for
>nothing :(
>
>Two  years  ago  I  got  the same  with  a  different  diag  :
>
> - The last  reported error was: 5.6.0 552 5.6.0  Headers too large (32768
> max)
>
>
> host fnal.gov
> fnal.gov has address 131.225.105.239
> fnal.gov has IPv6 address 2620:6a:0:105::105:239
> fnal.gov mail is handled by 10 fnal-gov.mail.protection.outlook.com.
>
> So, yeah, they moved the mail relay to office365/outlook
>
>


-- 
"If you can't explain it simply, you don't understand it well enough"
- Albert Einstein

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Bruce Ferrell]

On 11/16/18 9:25 AM, Franchisseur Robert wrote:

-- Le (On) 2018-11-16 + à (at) 10:25:46 Fred Liu écrivit (wrote): --


me too


So  after  this message I subscribe with an other address  for
nothing :(

Two  years  ago  I  got  the same  with  a  different  diag  :

- The last  reported error was: 5.6.0 552 5.6.0  Headers too large (32768
max)



host fnal.gov
fnal.gov has address 131.225.105.239
fnal.gov has IPv6 address 2620:6a:0:105::105:239
fnal.gov mail is handled by 10 fnal-gov.mail.protection.outlook.com.

So, yeah, they moved the mail relay to office365/outlook

Re: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Franchisseur Robert]

-- Le (On) 2018-11-16 + à (at) 10:25:46 Fred Liu écrivit (wrote): --

> me too
> 

   So  after  this message I subscribe with an other address  for
   nothing :(

   Two  years  ago  I  got  the same  with  a  different  diag  :

- The last  reported error was: 5.6.0 552 5.6.0  Headers too large (32768
max)


-- 
 Best regards,
   Robert FRANCHISSEUR
  Apollo_gist :-)___
| Robert FRANCHISSEUR Phone  : +33 (0)950  635  636 |
| 30 rue René Hamon   Phone  : +33 (0)1 46 78 37 29 |
| F-94800 VILLEJUIFe-mail : Robert at Franchisseur . fr |
 ---


pgpqVXoQq3SHN.pgp
Description: PGP signature

RE: kicked off the list via Office 365?

[Fred Liu]

me too

> -Original Message-
> From: owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov
> [mailto:owner-scientific-linux-us...@listserv.fnal.gov] On Behalf Of Howard,
> Chris
> Sent: 星期四, 十一月 15, 2018 23:39
> To: SCIENTIFIC-LINUX-USERS@fnal.gov
> Subject: kicked off the list via Office 365?
> 
> FYI
> 
> I received a kicked-off-the-list message which seems to indicate that either 
> the
> listserv or people being relayed through the listserv were falling afoul of 
> Office
> 365 spam-control on my end, which gave me too many bounces and hence,
> kicked off.