date:20071224

After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at home. mind you, I loved Crouching 
Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his 
vision for that one.
 
 
I don't think that Ang Lee should be define by The Hulk and CTHD. I am sure 
that he has done other films. 
 
 
 



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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

 
In a message dated 12/23/2007 7:17:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

M. Night Shyamalan wrote Stuart Little the 
same year he did the Six Sense

 Flop Too commmerical. 
Harry Potter was too commercial. I like  LOTR films because it did not have 
that Hollywood commercial film. It was as if it was an independent film.  
Potter is too generic to co,pare. The director will not have that magic  that 
will not make it a commerical film. I am not talking about a independent film. 
I 
am talking about IT.   Jackson did something to those books that transforme 
them.  Yes he changed some things. However he made them beautiful. I loved the 
location and sets. it was as if you were really there. It was not a ypical 
fantasy film. 
 
 
Curon and del Toro will not build upon that. Since there are some characters 
from the first books in the Hobbit, the film will be different. It won't have 
that same feeling. I am not looking for Gothic or Sullen Harry Potter. 



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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

Wha? Have you  SEEN the LOTR films? Is it possible to BE more Hollywood than
a multimillion dollar  film starring Orlando Bloom, Liv Tyler, Sean Bean,
Cate Blanchett, Hugo Weaving (POST Matrix), Elijah Wood, Sir Ian McKellen
(who HAD done X Men at this point) this was as Hollywood as you could GET in
2001. 

³It² is subjective. If you don¹t like Peter  Jackson, you don¹t like Peter
Jackson. But to say that ANY of the LOTR films seemed Independent is not to
understand independent film. Star Wars Episode 4, as it was released in
1977, is an example of a big budget independent film. LOTR is an example of
Hollywood pulling out all the stops to make a picture.


On 12/24/07 6:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
  
  
 
  
 In a message dated 12/23/2007 7:17:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 mailto:tdlists%40multiculturaladvantage.com  writes:
 
 M. Night Shyamalan wrote Stuart Little the
 same year he did the Six Sense
 
 Flop Too commmerical.
 Harry Potter was too commercial. I like  LOTR films because it did not have
 that Hollywood commercial film. It was as if it was an independent film.
 Potter is too generic to co,pare. The director will not have that magic
 that 
 will not make it a commerical film. I am not talking about a independent film.
 I 
 am talking about IT.   Jackson did something to those books that transforme
 them.  Yes he changed some things. However he made them beautiful. I loved the
 location and sets. it was as if you were really there. It was not a ypical
 fantasy film. 
  
  
 Curon and del Toro will not build upon that. Since there are some characters
 from the first books in the Hobbit, the film will be different. It won't have
 that same feeling. I am not looking for Gothic or Sullen Harry Potter.
 
 **See AOL's top rated recipes
 (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
  
 




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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit


The Lord Of The Rings movies bore me because they move entirely  too slow.
There are entire scenes dedicated to  establishing shots. I know I'm
Generation X and I'm used to MTV style editing and all that, but I just
think the entire first movie could have been covered in 30 minutes and then
we could have gotten on with the second film,  which is where the action
sort of was.

When I saw these movies in a theater I immediately sympathized with people
who  don't like Star Trek. If you've never cared about any of the Trek
series, and the first  time someone sits you down to  watch it,  it's the
first  movie, you are going to fall asleep. Because it is a long and drawn
out story about people with whom you  have no connection whatsoever.

I didn't grow up reading Tolkien. I grew up reading Asimov and watching old
Flash Gordon. When my friends in high school played DD, I was reading
Douglas Adams. It's why I don't get Beowulf. It's why I've never played
Zelda.

So when I watched the movies on DVD, I was able to study the filmmaking. I
could stop and check the details. I could go get a sandwich. Take a phone
call. I was impressed by what I saw, because it was like someone had taken
all this time to  put all this data on screen. It was made,  in my  opinion,
to  stop  and take it all in. Freeze frame, slow-mo. The LOTR  movies are
the best  argument for HD that I can imagine.

On 12/22/07 1:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 why do you think LOTR bored you at the theatre? what was the difference in
 your home viewing experience?
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 And here is where the fandom line is sort of drawn. I have said this before,
 and I will say it again. I saw LOTR in a theater and I have never had such a
 good sleep outside of my own bed. I tried again with the second picture, and
 again, fell asleep. These just aren¹t my kind of stories. I can appreciate
 the production value, but I simply have never cared about these stories. So
 last year I watched all three on DVD, stayed awake, and was amazed at what I
 saw. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker and tells stories better than many
 of his contemporaries.
 
 Raimi has done stories that I DO care about, and I have to say that he is
 remarkably inconsistent. Consistently FUNNY, but not exactly a string of
 classics. I like Sam himself more than the pictures he¹s done. WITH THE
 EXCEPTION of Spider Man 2.
 
 On 12/22/07 11:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 i gotta disagree on Hellboy. That movie rocked. And some of the pieces: the
 initial magic working with Nazis, the religious dude, the look and feel of
 their headquarters, all show a deft hand with set design, FX, and even CGI.
 It's not a direct one-to-one correlation with the world of the Hobbit, but my
 point is the basic skillsets and abilities shown there can be adapted. I
 mean,
 after Blood Simple (think that was it) and The Frighteners, I never would
 have
 pegged Jackson to be right for LOTR, but New Line saw something in him...
 
 -- Original message --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:Gymfig%40aol.com
 
 In a message dated 12/22/2007 1:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net writes:
 
 for some reason I feel del Toro's immersion in fantasy (Pan's Labyrinth, Hell
 boy) would work, combined with his natural ebullience and childlike sense of
 wonder
 
 Pan had other theme intertwined in the movie. The Hobbit is not a mature
 prequel. Maybe he could do Tne Simarillion.
 
 Hellboy was a cheap comic book adaptation. It is good for the Sci Fi channel
 or FX. I don't see The Hobbit being a sci fi or FX kind of movie. The tone is
 too different. 
 
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[scifinoir2] Thanks for no memory

2007-12-24 Thread ravenadal

www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped1224memoriesdec24,0,357836.story?coll=chi_tab05_layout
chicagotribune.com

Commentary

Thanks for no memory

The Information Age has exceeded our brains' storage capacity

By Barry Gottlieb

December 24, 2007

We're not getting dumber, we're getting fuller. And I don't mean our
stomachs, I mean our brains. Think about it. Once upon a time all we
needed to know was Animal big. Me get smooshed, Berries pretty. Ogg
no breathe, and Feet hurt. Wish me have wheel.

But life isn't that simple anymore. Nowadays we have a lot more on our
minds, from what we have to do at work to how we're going to find the
time to do it when we're not at work, from what order to push the
buttons on the microwave so the chicken defrosts instead of turning to
rubber to remembering which of the 247 channels that scroll by on the
Preview Guide we actually get, because, lord knows, whenever a show
catches our eye all we wind up seeing is a message telling us the
phone number to call to subscribe.

I guess that's why the Preview Guide has such high ratings, higher
even than the final episode of Dancing with the American Survivor
Runway Idol Stars.

It's easy to confuse ignorance with a full brain. A recent poll taken
in England (motto: We had the euro named after us, what's been named
after you?) found that 3 out of 4 Brits think Mt. Everest is either
in the Alps or in England. And that a Sherpa is the new SUV by Ford.
OK, kidding about the Sherpa, but that's only because Ford didn't
think of it.

Though it would be easy to blame the Brits' lack of knowledge on an
education system that's as good as their teeth or sausage rolls
clogging their carotid arteries, that wouldn't be fair. The British
have a lot on their minds these days. Tony Blair is gone and they're
stuck with a prime minister who's duller than a powdered wig, Helen
Mirren turned out to be a better queen than the Queen, and now it
looks like the much-hoped-for Led Zeppelin-Spice Girls reunion tour
isn't going to happen because Victoria wouldn't stop telling Jimmy
Page to bend the notes like Beckham. With all that going on, who cares
about Mt. Whatever-It-Is?

Yes, our brains are saturated. The Information Age begat the Overload
Years, and now it's hard to know what to hold onto and what to send to
the Recycle Bin. We can remember what night and time our favorite TV
shows are on but think 54-40 or Fight is the ad slogan for an
anti-aging cream. We can type http://www.face book.com in our sleep --
and often do -- but for the life of us we can't remember how to find
the calculator on our cell phone when we need it. Heck, ET had it
easier when he tried to phone home than we do with the average cell
phone today. I don't know about you, but if my home phone number
wasn't in speed dial I wouldn't be able to call home.

Recently, White House press secretary Dana Perino was on the Not My
Job segment of the National Public Radio program, Wait Wait, Don't
Tell Me! She admitted that she had been at a loss when asked at a
news conference if Russian President Vladimir Putin thought our
missile defense program was like the Cuban missile crisis because she
didn't know a Cuban missile crisis from a Cuban sandwich. When she got
home she asked her British husband, who filled her in, though it would
be interesting to find out if he knows where Mt. Everest is.

Ignorant? Uneducated? Doubtful. She probably heard about the Cuban
missile crisis at one time or another in her life but that was before
her head was jam-packed. After all, she's the president's press
secretary. She has to be full of, uh, information. Lots of it. Not to
mention having to constantly figure out ways to explain what the
president really meant while at the same time trying not to forget the
Santeria curse that's supposed to make Helen Thomas invisible.

We often hear that we use only 10 percent of our brains, which could
help explain why they get so full so easily. Of course that means the
other 90 percent is filler, empty neurons designed to keep our brain
from sloshing around in our skull when we dance. But this is an urban
legend. We do, in fact, use our whole brain, which is good because the
idea that 90 percent of our brain is cellular bubble wrap that we
can't put on the floor and roll a chair over is depressing.

But the brain is trapped inside our skull, meaning it can't get any
bigger, so there's only a finite amount of information it can contain.
This explains why we need help remembering the simplest things.
Luckily, I have all my contacts synced up to my cell phone or I
wouldn't be able to call anyone. I have bookmarks in my browser so I
can remember the sites I want to go to, a program that automatically
remembers and fills in my passwords -- which are all the same, but
still -- and I single-handedly keep 3M in business with all my Post-it
notes.

Having all these helpers means I don't need to remember any of that
information. And I don't. Which has made me stupider

Re: [scifinoir2] Comics to Film

2007-12-24 Thread Astromancer

If not the board, what?

Justin Mohareb [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  I presume he means not the 
board.

JJ Mohareb

On Dec 23, 2007 7:13 PM, Astromancer [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Sorry too...Um, what is the source of the Silver Surfer's power?

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sorry! I think Astro stirred me up,
 bringing up the Galactus cloud and all!

-- 
Read the Bitter Guide to the Bitter Guy.
http://thebitterguy.livejournal.com


 


Akin, but no matter what you think, I am concerned for your life, so Ill only 
say this once; if you talk too much or ask too many questions, you might say 
something that interests the Community, and you really, really dont want to 
get them interested. - The Side Street Chonicles by C.W. Badie
   
-
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Re: [scifinoir2] Comics to Film

2007-12-24 Thread Astromancer

This is the result of having the script done by a non-fan...I'm necessarily a 
fan, but I am in a funk over the cloud thing...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  minor spoilers--but it doesn't matter

The Surfer is *supposed* to be strengthened by the Power Cosmic, imparted to 
him by Galactus. The silvery material covering him makes him invulnerable to 
most injury, but outside of that material, the Power gives him innate powers of 
super strength, immortality, matter/energy manipulation, a complete lack of 
need for food or air, etc. The board allows him to fly at FTL speeds and helps 
him navigate, but it is *not* the *source* of his powers, merely an extension 
of them: a peripheral, if you will. It's akin to the relationship between 
Mjolnir and Thor. The Power Cosmic is fully integrated into the Surfer's body, 
not just in the board.

In the movie, they said the Surfer's powers *all* originated from the board, as 
evidenced by the scan tape that showed energy surging from it into the Surfer's 
body when Doom was attacking him. So, by simply separating him from the board, 
they greatly weakened him. That is absolute crap. Why in the world did the 
idiot writer have to rewrite things like that? Too stupid to work within the 
confines of the established comic lore?

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer 
Sorry too...Um, what is the source of the Silver Surfer's power?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sorry! I think Astro stirred me up, bringing up the 
Galactus cloud and all!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin 
Keith, spot on with your analysis of Reed. And the therapy bill's in the mail, 
for bringing back the horror of that movie...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: me too, and no evidence of sentience in Galactus, and 
that battle between him and the Surfer--gawd that movie sucked!
I'm still most pissed at the Surfer's source of power being changed--gawd that 
movie sucked!

There's a better Reed Richards to be depicted. I really like Ian as Reed, but 
they've written Reed as too uncertain, too much of a wimp. That is *not* Reed 
Richards. He's always been distracted, absent-minded, overly analytical, dense 
in the ways of romance at times, but he was never uncertain and unsure unless 
someone like Doom had one of his loved ones in danger. Reed might have been a 
bookwarm, but that's not the same as a wimp.

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer 
I agree about the choice of Alba as Sue Richards too...plus I was major pissed 
that they turned Galactus into a frickin' cloud monster!!!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: although many applaud or at least tolerate the FF 
movies because they have a sense of fun, i've found them to be trash. Alba 
can't act, is the wrong choice for Sue, and the scripts have sucked. Galactus 
was a bitter disappointment, the change to the source of the Surfer's power was 
laughably pitiful, and the Doctor Doom's character needs to go. i do agree that 
the whole thing needs to be re-written, and maybe McDuffie could do a job to 
save what is to me a wasted opportunity so far.

I didn't see Awake. Alba doesn't do enough for me in any department to go see 
a movie in which she's starring.

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle 
I thought Peter's dance was a highlight of the picture. That is to say, the
whole picture was bad. I don't think anyone will be able to do a better
picture than Spider Man 2. I'd hand the franchise off to another director at
this point and let Raimi co-produce.

When I hold Spiderman 3 against Rise of the Silver Surfer, I have to
say that Rise is a better picture. Tim is trying to build a sense of
friendship between the four, whereas Spiderman is just rehashing the same
relationships and trying to dazzle us with effects. I do think that if there
is to be a third Fantastic Four picture, Dwayne McDuffie and/or Reggie
Hudlin simply HAVE to be brought in to write the script. Black Panther and
Fantastic Four are simply two of the best books out right now, and Dwayne's
writing in Justice League of America is GREAT stuff. Now that the basic
stories have been told with these two franchises, it's time to take them to
the next level, and I can't think of any better writers to handle the
material. I believe a Dwayne McDuffie script can make Jessica Alba a better
actress in the suit.

Speaking of Alba, did anybody catch this movie with her and the Anakin
Skywalker guy? It's a horror movie, and not just because the two of them are
the stars (ba-DUM-bum). The movie is supposed to be about being awake during
surgery, in fact I think it's called Awake or something like that.

On 12/22/07 10:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Well, which was worse: Peter's strut down the street, winking at women, or
 Reed Richards' elasticized dance routine in Rise of the Silver Surfer? Both
 left me gagging. As for which movie was the worst, that's a tough one. I have
 no desire to see FF2 again, but it's shorter

Re: [scifinoir2] Thanks for no memory

I would stand up and thump my chest in a thoroughly manly fashion, proclaiming
my intellect to be superior to one and all, but I realize that I can't remember
what I had for lunch. And that was an hour and a half ago...

ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
www.chicagotribune.com/news/opinion/chi-oped1224memoriesdec24,0,357836.story?coll=chi_tab05_layout
chicagotribune.com

Commentary

Thanks for no memory

The Information Age has exceeded our brains' storage capacity

By Barry Gottlieb

December 24, 2007

I guess that's why the Preview Guide has such high ratings, higher
even than the final episode of Dancing with the American Survivor
Runway Idol Stars.

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

You're right, Gymfig. It was unfair of me to toss that out. But I was really 
expecting something out of the movie, because the Hulk is my third-favorite 
Marvel property, after the FF and Cap.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at 
home. mind you, I loved Crouching 
Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his 
vision for that one.


I don't think that Ang Lee should be define by The Hulk and CTHD. I am sure 
that he has done other films. 




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There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
Country
   
-
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RE: [scifinoir2] somewhat related

2007-12-24 Thread Reece Jennings

I thought Will did an excellent job!  I don't know about the 2/3, 1/3 thing.
I guess by the time the
good 2/3's of the movie were over, I didn't judge the last 1/3.
 
I normally don't watch virus movies, but this was a good one!
 
 Maurice Jennings
Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
KEEP your home and  Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation = http://www.legacyhomesavers.com
http://www.legacyhomesavers.com/ 
 
 
 

  _  

From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
Sent: Monday, December 24, 2007 2:06 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] somewhat related



i'm looking fo?rward to it. I read that it really showcases Smith's 
talents and that the first 2/3s of the movie is well done with some 
problems with the last 1/3. What did you think

Reece Jennings wrote:
 I went to see I am Legend today. Maybe my tastes are pretty simple, but
I
 really enjoyed the movie. 


 Maurice Jennings
 Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation = http://www.legacyho
http://www.legacyhomesavers.com mesavers.com
 
 

 -Original Message-
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com]
On
 Behalf Of Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
 Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 4:03 PM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com
 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] somewhat related

 Extremely related. I just posted a long post about Burton. Gymfig said he
 does not he it and in my opinion, he's got something. You post supports
 that. I will add Sweeney Todd to my list. Let us know what you think
 about Legend

 maidmarian_thepoet wrote:
 
 I can recommend Sweeney Todd. No less than the NY Times declares it 
 is a horror musical, which I guess is somewhat related to the topics 
 we cover here. It's always been one of my favorite musicals.

 What can I say? It's a perfect antidote to the sappy movies that we
 usually get at this season. And in its way, it's a slap at 
 laizzez-faire capitalism.

 I will try to hit I am Legend today. Alas, I've already missed the 
 cheap showing.



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Re: [scifinoir2] NT Times - Hoover Planned Mass Jailing in 1950

(standing ovation)

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  the media lost its backbone, integrity and courage a 
long time ago. It's been coming for a long while: the emphasis on ratings 
instead of good reporting...the proliferation of models reading the news 
(watched CNN lately? They have more Asian/Amer-Asian female anchors than you 
would believe, all young; and Fox News is obssessed with blondes)...the old 
requirements of reporters who are well educated/traveled/experienced going out 
the window...corporate ownership of news divisions, with staff reductions, 
consolidations, and budget decreases in order to turn a profit... freakin' 
*entertainment* divisions of said corporations controlling the news 
divisions...megalomaniacs like Rupert Murdoch stamping their one-sided 
viewpoint on everthing from print to radio to television...and finally, the 
backing down in terror of the insane jingoistic xenophobic berserker rage 
sweeping America after 9-11. The media lost its backbone indeed, with even
 liberal groups like the New York Times and CNN 
backing down on telling the truth about how Bush and his coterie were fuc 
up the world.

MSNBC fired Donahue because he was upsetting the administration and his bosses 
were gutless. Donahue was required to have *two* conservatives for every *one* 
liberal he had on his talk show. Seriously. The New York Times buried whole 
stories casting doubt on the whole Al-queda/Hussein/WMD crap inside its paper. 
Everyone from ABC News to CBS warped stories critical of the administration so 
as not to offend. The Fourth Estate let us down, and i'll never forgive them 
for that. While many of us were typing and screaming and voting like demons to 
stop this insanity, the press cowered in a corner and through action or 
inaction, helped it take place. 

Sorry, I'm ranting, I know, but I'm getting angry just typing this. Journalism 
is the one that got away, the career i should have chosen instead of IT. 
Corny as it sounds, I still remember my days as my high school's editor, and I 
adhere(d) to the old principles of Who, What, When, Where, How, and Why. 
Journalists must tell the truth and get the facts, and dig for the 
story--popular or not. If you don't have truth--the facts--and don't have the 
courage to speak them in times when the whole world is against you, then you're 
no good to me.

You should listen to or watch Bill Moyers' special Buying the War, which he 
did for PBS earlier this year. I have it on my iPod and have listened to it 
several times. He speaks of many specific examples of how the media backed down 
on this whole Iraq thing. He's the one who interviewed Donahue about how he was 
treated by MSNBC. Amazing, disturbing, and infuriating report.

Our media has a long way to go to get back to what it was--if it ever will. Now 
there's this whole debate about whether corporate-controlled, profit-driven 
media will ever again be truly effective, or if this new world of citizen 
journalists (bloggers and the like) is the new future of journalism...

-- Original message -- 
From: Bosco Bosco 
What's amazing about this is not Hoover's desire to suspend habeas
corpus is news. The man was a backwards facist and represents all the
things foul that draw this country down from the moral high ground.

What's amazing is that habeas corpus has been suspended and no one
really cares. It wasn't even news worthy. So much for the theory of a
liberally biased media.

Bosco
--- Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
wrote:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/washington/23habeas.html?_r=1oref=slogin
 
 
 
 A newly declassified document shows that J. Edgar Hoover, the
 longtime 
 director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, had a plan to
 suspend 
 habeas corpus and imprison some 12,000 Americans he suspected of
 disloyalty.
 
 Hoover sent his plan to the White House on July 7, 1950, 12 days
 after 
 the Korean War began. It envisioned putting suspect Americans in 
 military prisons.
 
 Hoover wanted President Harry S. Truman to proclaim the mass
 arrests 
 necessary to âprotect the country against treason, espionage and 
 sabotage.â The F.B.I would âapprehend all individuals
 potentially 
 dangerousâ to national security, Hooverâs proposal said. The
 arrests 
 would be carried out under âa master warrant attached to a list
 of 
 namesâ provided by the bureau.
 
 The names were part of an index that Hoover had been compiling for 
 years. âThe index now contains approximately twelve thousand 
 individuals, of which approximately ninety-seven per cent are
 citizens 
 of the United States,â he wrote.
 
 âIn order to make effective these apprehensions, the proclamation
 
 suspends the Writ of Habeas Corpus,â it said.
 
 Habeas corpus, the right to seek relief from illegal detention, has
 been 
 a fundamental principle of law for seven centuries. The Bush 
 administrationâs decision to hold suspects for years at
 GuantÃ¡namo

Re: [scifinoir2] NT Times - Hoover Planned Mass Jailing in 1950

Exactly, bosco. In a decidedly neocon group I used to post in, they lo ved to 
rant on for days on end about the liberal media and how they were destroying 
the American Way of life. I casually made the analogy that, if said liberal 
media had actually existed, then Dan Rather's botched attempt to disclose the 
military records of Our Imperial Leader *wouldn't* have been botched. Oh, the 
snide neocon slams I got for that piece of logic...

Bosco Bosco [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  What's amazing about this is 
not Hoover's desire to suspend habeas
corpus is news. The man was a backwards facist and represents all the
things foul that draw this country down from the moral high ground.

What's amazing is that habeas corpus has been suspended and no one
really cares. It wasn't even news worthy. So much for the theory of a
liberally biased media.

Bosco
--- Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:


http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/washington/23habeas.html?_r=1oref=slogin
 
 
 
 A newly declassified document shows that J. Edgar Hoover, the
 longtime 
 director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, had a plan to
 suspend 
 habeas corpus and imprison some 12,000 Americans he suspected of
 disloyalty.
 
 Hoover sent his plan to the White House on July 7, 1950, 12 days
 after 
 the Korean War began. It envisioned putting suspect Americans in 
 military prisons.
 
 Hoover wanted President Harry S. Truman to proclaim the mass
 arrests 
 necessary to âprotect the country against treason, espionage and 
 sabotage.â The F.B.I would âapprehend all individuals
 potentially 
 dangerousâ to national security, Hooverâs proposal said. The
 arrests 
 would be carried out under âa master warrant attached to a list
 of 
 namesâ provided by the bureau.
 
 The names were part of an index that Hoover had been compiling for 
 years. âThe index now contains approximately twelve thousand 
 individuals, of which approximately ninety-seven per cent are
 citizens 
 of the United States,â he wrote.
 
 âIn order to make effective these apprehensions, the proclamation
 
 suspends the Writ of Habeas Corpus,â it said.
 
 Habeas corpus, the right to seek relief from illegal detention, has
 been 
 a fundamental principle of law for seven centuries. The Bush 
 administrationâs decision to hold suspects for years at
 GuantÃ¡namo Bay, 
 Cuba, has made habeas corpus a contentious issue for Congress and
 the 
 Supreme Court today.
 
 The Constitution says habeas corpus shall not be suspended
 âunless when 
 in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require
 it.â 
 The plan proposed by Hoover, the head of the F.B.I. from 1924 to
 1972, 
 stretched that clause to include âthreatened invasionâ or
 âattack upon 
 United States troops in legally occupied territory.â
 
 After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, President Bush
 issued an 
 order that effectively allowed the United States to hold suspects 
 indefinitely without a hearing, a lawyer, or formal charges. In 
 September 2006, Congress passed a law suspending habeas corpus for 
 anyone deemed an âunlawful enemy combatant.â
 
 But the Supreme Court has reaffirmed the right of American citizens
 to 
 seek a writ of habeas corpus. This month the court heard arguments
 on 
 whether about 300 foreigners held at GuantÃ¡namo Bay had the same
 rights. 
 It is expected to rule by next summer.
 
 Hooverâs plan was declassified Friday as part of a collection of 
 cold-war documents concerning intelligence issues from 1950 to
 1955. The 
 collection makes up a new volume of âThe Foreign Relations of the
 United 
 States,â a series that by law has been published continuously by
 the 
 State Department since the Civil War.
 
 Hooverâs plan called for âthe permanent detentionâ of the
 roughly 12,000 
 suspects at military bases as well as in federal prisons. The
 F.B.I., he 
 said, had found that the arrests it proposed in New York and
 California 
 would cause the prisons there to overflow.
 
 So the bureau had arranged for âdetention in military facilities
 of the 
 individuals apprehendedâ in those states, he wrote.
 
 The prisoners eventually would have had a right to a hearing under
 the 
 Hoover plan. The hearing board would have been a panel made up of
 one 
 judge and two citizens. But the hearings âwill not be bound by
 the rules 
 of evidence,â his letter noted.
 
 The only modern precedent for Hooverâs plan was the Palmer Raids
 of 
 1920, named after the attorney general at the time. The raids,
 executed 
 in large part by Hooverâs intelligence division, swept up
 thousands of 
 people suspected of being communists and radicals.
 
 Previously declassified documents show that the F.B.I.âs
 âsecurity 
 indexâ of suspect Americans predated the cold war. In March 1946,
 Hoover 
 sought the authority to detain Americans âwho might be
 dangerousâ if the 
 United States went

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Speaking of Will Smith

She has favored me...
   
  (falling prostrate)

Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  ... However, I do appreciate your words of wisdom

Martin wrote:
 ...though, thinking on that now, quietly is an option best removed. Wisdom 
 predicates the notion of being overt in regard to worshipping the Superior 
 Sex...

 Reece Jennings wrote: More GENTLY than QUIETLY! YIKES! Reverently?
 
 Maurice Jennings
 Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation = http://www.legacyhomesavers.com
 
 
 
 
 
 _ 
 
 From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Martin
 Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 1:23 PM
 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Speaking of Will Smith
 
 (quietly expanding shrine to all women of the City of Brotherly Love...)
 
 tdemorsella  aladvantage.com wrote: Smart
 man. I think that trumps a Baltimore woman. Of course, you
 guys all know from experience with me that we Philly women are as meek
 as church mice...right, Right, RIGHT?!?!?!? 
 
 :)
 
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com,
 James A. Landrith, Jr.
 wrote:
 
  Bronx woman.
  
  (James sits in corner, quietly minding Ps and Qs for 14 years and
 counting)
  
  ___
  Sent with SnapperMail
  www.snappermail.com
  
  .. Original Message ...
  On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:23:13 -0800 (PST) Astromancer 
  wrote:
  (whispering close to the screen after shutting study room doors) It
 aint 
  just Baltimore women...
  
 
 
 There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A
 Country
 
 -
 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
 now.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 


 There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
 Country
 
 -
 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
Country
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Speaking of Will Smith

Now, Tracey, I've lived in the Lil' Ole Souf for over forty years, and I have 
*never* met a gentle bunny rabbit...

Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  
c'mon guys. I'm as gentle as a bunny rabbit. I stopped using the cat 
o' nine tales weeks ago.

Martin wrote:
 All of the above, for reasons of self-preservation...

 Reece Jennings wrote: More GENTLY than QUIETLY! YIKES! Reverently?
 
 Maurice Jennings
 Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation = http://www.legacyhomesavers.com
 
 
 
 
 
 _ 
 
 From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
 Behalf Of Martin
 Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 1:23 PM
 To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Speaking of Will Smith
 
 (quietly expanding shrine to all women of the City of Brotherly Love...)
 
 tdemorsella  aladvantage.com wrote: Smart
 man. I think that trumps a Baltimore woman. Of course, you
 guys all know from experience with me that we Philly women are as meek
 as church mice...right, Right, RIGHT?!?!?!? 
 
 :)
 
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com,
 James A. Landrith, Jr.
 wrote:
 
  Bronx woman.
  
  (James sits in corner, quietly minding Ps and Qs for 14 years and
 counting)
  
  ___
  Sent with SnapperMail
  www.snappermail.com
  
  .. Original Message ...
  On Wed, 19 Dec 2007 11:23:13 -0800 (PST) Astromancer 
  wrote:
  (whispering close to the screen after shutting study room doors) It
 aint 
  just Baltimore women...
  
 
 
 There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A
 Country
 
 -
 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it
 now.
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 


 There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
 Country
 
 -
 Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now.

 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
 Yahoo! Groups Links





 



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There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
Country
   
-
Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

LMNAO!!!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  i agree, i'd probably need therapy after 
seeing an Ang Lee rendition of The Hobbit. I was actually depressed after 
Hulk. it was such a brooding, downbeat movie. I'm all for well done angst in 
comic films. Indeed, it's those movies with realistic human drama that are the 
best, even in the cape-and-cowl genre. But Hulk--i came out of it feeling like 
i needed a shower and a stiff drink. And I don't drink!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at home. mind you, I loved Crouching 
Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his 
vision for that one.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
In a message dated 12/22/2007 11:00:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

they're good examples of story, acting, plotting, action, FX, CGI, and that 
all-important, all-evasise look of a film.

They may be okay directors but they don't have the it factor. I don't expect 
Scorsese to do the Hobbit. It is not his style. I don't expect Eastwood to do 
it either. I can see Ang Lee doing it. He has don different genres of film.

These directors have not. 

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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
Country

-
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[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

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There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
Country
   
-
Looking for last minute shopping deals?  Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Comics to Film

'Tis okay. I have minions I can torture on other sites to relieve the angst.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  sorry! I think Astro stirred me up, bringing up the 
Galactus cloud and all!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin 
Keith, spot on with your analysis of Reed. And the therapy bill's in the mail, 
for bringing back the horror of that movie...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: me too, and no evidence of sentience in Galactus, and 
that battle between him and the Surfer--gawd that movie sucked!
I'm still most pissed at the Surfer's source of power being changed--gawd that 
movie sucked!

There's a better Reed Richards to be depicted. I really like Ian as Reed, but 
they've written Reed as too uncertain, too much of a wimp. That is *not* Reed 
Richards. He's always been distracted, absent-minded, overly analytical, dense 
in the ways of romance at times, but he was never uncertain and unsure unless 
someone like Doom had one of his loved ones in danger. Reed might have been a 
bookwarm, but that's not the same as a wimp.

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer 
I agree about the choice of Alba as Sue Richards too...plus I was major pissed 
that they turned Galactus into a frickin' cloud monster!!!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: although many applaud or at least tolerate the FF 
movies because they have a sense of fun, i've found them to be trash. Alba 
can't act, is the wrong choice for Sue, and the scripts have sucked. Galactus 
was a bitter disappointment, the change to the source of the Surfer's power was 
laughably pitiful, and the Doctor Doom's character needs to go. i do agree that 
the whole thing needs to be re-written, and maybe McDuffie could do a job to 
save what is to me a wasted opportunity so far.

I didn't see Awake. Alba doesn't do enough for me in any department to go see 
a movie in which she's starring.

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle 
I thought Peter's dance was a highlight of the picture. That is to say, the
whole picture was bad. I don't think anyone will be able to do a better
picture than Spider Man 2. I'd hand the franchise off to another director at
this point and let Raimi co-produce.

When I hold Spiderman 3 against Rise of the Silver Surfer, I have to
say that Rise is a better picture. Tim is trying to build a sense of
friendship between the four, whereas Spiderman is just rehashing the same
relationships and trying to dazzle us with effects. I do think that if there
is to be a third Fantastic Four picture, Dwayne McDuffie and/or Reggie
Hudlin simply HAVE to be brought in to write the script. Black Panther and
Fantastic Four are simply two of the best books out right now, and Dwayne's
writing in Justice League of America is GREAT stuff. Now that the basic
stories have been told with these two franchises, it's time to take them to
the next level, and I can't think of any better writers to handle the
material. I believe a Dwayne McDuffie script can make Jessica Alba a better
actress in the suit.

Speaking of Alba, did anybody catch this movie with her and the Anakin
Skywalker guy? It's a horror movie, and not just because the two of them are
the stars (ba-DUM-bum). The movie is supposed to be about being awake during
surgery, in fact I think it's called Awake or something like that.

On 12/22/07 10:49 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 Well, which was worse: Peter's strut down the street, winking at women, or
 Reed Richards' elasticized dance routine in Rise of the Silver Surfer? Both
 left me gagging. As for which movie was the worst, that's a tough one. I have
 no desire to see FF2 again, but it's shorter than Spidey 3, so maybe i'd
 choose it as a shorter term pain. But then, even at its worse Spidey 3 has
 better writing, acting, and character development than FF2, so i think it'd be
 my choice between the two.
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
 
 
 I always loved the symbiote story and they trivialized it and treated it
 like an afterthought while totally destroying it with that strut you
 call the 
 
 Stupid Saturday Night Fever thing. Up until now, I felt that Raimi was
 fantastic storyteller of the larger than life. After Spidey 3, I'm terrified
 at 
 the thought of him helming the Hobbit
 
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 i thoroughly disliked it. Too long, too boring, too many plotlines, FX and
 CGI 
 the worst of all the films--which is saying something, since as i said
 yesterday, the CGI has always disappointed me in teh Spidey films.
 The cardinal sins are that the Sandman really isn't used all that much in
 the 
 film (not as much as we probably expected), and the amount of time Peter's
 atually in the black suit is incredibly short--at least, compared to what
 those 
 eleventy million trailers led us to believe. He gets the suit, does that
 stupid 
 Saturday Night Fever thing, punches out Osborn, and then dumps the symbiote.
 The 
 way

RE: [scifinoir2] Re: Speaking of Will Smith

LMNAO!

Reece Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Hail Mary, Full of Grace...

Maurice Jennings
Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation = http://www.legacyhomesavers.com
http://www.legacyhomesavers.com/ 




_ 

From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
Behalf Of Martin
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 8:37 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Speaking of Will Smith

(promises to visit Reece in ICU daily)

tdemorsella [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:tdlists%40multiculturaladvantage.com aladvantage.com wrote: too
late to cover your tracks now. I'm gunning for you.

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com,
Reece Jennings
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Maurice? Maurice who? :o)
 (arms flailing, running screaming past Independence Hall)
 
 Maurice Jennings
 Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
 KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
 Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation = http://www.legacyho
http://www.legacyhomesavers.com mesavers.com
 http://www.legacyho http://www.legacyhomesavers.com/ mesavers.com/ 
 
 
 
 
 _ 
 
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com]
On
 Behalf Of Astromancer
 Sent: Friday, December 21, 2007 2:13 AM
 To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com ups.com
 Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Speaking of Will Smith
 
 
 
 Maurice, Martin? I'm afraid...
 
 Meta [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:hettrek%40yahoo.com com wrote: We
certainly
 are, Tracey. Just ask my husband.:-)
 
 Meta
 
 --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:scifinoir2%40yahoogroups.com
ups.com,
 tdemorsella tdlists@ wrote:
 
  Smart man. I think that trumps a Baltimore woman. Of course, you
  guys all know from experience with me that we Philly women are as meek
  as church mice...right, Right, RIGHT?!?!?!? 
  
  :)
  

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organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
Country
   
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RE: [scifinoir2] NT Times - Hoover Planned Mass Jailing in 1950

2007-12-24 Thread Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)

LMNAO

Reece Jennings [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  Maybe Hoover was having his 
dresses altered and couldn't take the time...

Maurice Jennings
Have you or someone you know been threatened with foreclosure?
KEEP your home and Stop Foreclosure in its Tracks!
Get a Free, No Obligation Evaluation = http://www.legacyhomesavers.com 
http://www.legacyhomesavers.com/ 




_ 

From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Martin
Sent: Sunday, December 23, 2007 7:53 AM
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] NT Times - Hoover Planned Mass Jailing in 1950

The only thing that shocks me about this is that it wasn't implemented.

Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
mailto:tdlists%40multiculturaladvantage.com aladvantage.com wrote: 
http://www.nytimes. 
http://www.nytimes.com/2007/12/23/washington/23habeas.html?_r=1oref=slogin 
com/2007/12/23/washington/23habeas.html?_r=1oref=slogin

A newly declassified document shows that J. Edgar Hoover, the longtime 
director of the Federal Bureau of Investigation, had a plan to suspend 
habeas corpus and imprison some 12,000 Americans he suspected of disloyalty.

Hoover sent his plan to the White House on July 7, 1950, 12 days after 
the Korean War began. It envisioned putting suspect Americans in 
military prisons.

Hoover wanted President Harry S. Truman to proclaim the mass arrests 
necessary to Ã¢â¬Åprotect the country against treason, espionage and 
sabotage.Ã¢â¬Â The F.B.I would Ã¢â¬Åapprehend all individuals potentially 
dangerousÃ¢â¬Â to national security, HooverÃ¢â¬â¢s proposal said. The 
arrests 
would be carried out under Ã¢â¬Åa master warrant attached to a list of 
namesÃ¢â¬Â provided by the bureau.

The names were part of an index that Hoover had been compiling for 
years. Ã¢â¬ÅThe index now contains approximately twelve thousand 
individuals, of which approximately ninety-seven per cent are citizens 
of the United States,Ã¢â¬Â he wrote.

Ã¢â¬ÅIn order to make effective these apprehensions, the proclamation 
suspends the Writ of Habeas Corpus,Ã¢â¬Â it said.

Habeas corpus, the right to seek relief from illegal detention, has been 
a fundamental principle of law for seven centuries. The Bush 
administrationÃ¢â¬â¢s decision to hold suspects for years at GuantÃÂ¡namo 
Bay, 
Cuba, has made habeas corpus a contentious issue for Congress and the 
Supreme Court today.

The Constitution says habeas corpus shall not be suspended Ã¢â¬Åunless when 
in cases of rebellion or invasion, the public safety may require it.Ã¢â¬Â 
The plan proposed by Hoover, the head of the F.B.I. from 1924 to 1972, 
stretched that clause to include Ã¢â¬Åthreatened invasionÃ¢â¬Â or 
Ã¢â¬Åattack upon 
United States troops in legally occupied territory.Ã¢â¬Â

After the terrorist attacks of Sept. 11, 2001, President Bush issued an 
order that effectively allowed the United States to hold suspects 
indefinitely without a hearing, a lawyer, or formal charges. In 
September 2006, Congress passed a law suspending habeas corpus for 
anyone deemed an Ã¢â¬Åunlawful enemy combatant.Ã¢â¬Â

But the Supreme Court has reaffirmed the right of American citizens to 
seek a writ of habeas corpus. This month the court heard arguments on 
whether about 300 foreigners held at GuantÃÂ¡namo Bay had the same rights. 
It is expected to rule by next summer.

HooverÃ¢â¬â¢s plan was declassified Friday as part of a collection of 
cold-war documents concerning intelligence issues from 1950 to 1955. The 
collection makes up a new volume of Ã¢â¬ÅThe Foreign Relations of the United 
States,Ã¢â¬Â a series that by law has been published continuously by the 
State Department since the Civil War.

HooverÃ¢â¬â¢s plan called for Ã¢â¬Åthe permanent detentionÃ¢â¬Â of the 
roughly 12,000 
suspects at military bases as well as in federal prisons. The F.B.I., he 
said, had found that the arrests it proposed in New York and California 
would cause the prisons there to overflow.

So the bureau had arranged for Ã¢â¬Ådetention in military facilities of the 
individuals apprehendedÃ¢â¬Â in those states, he wrote.

The prisoners eventually would have had a right to a hearing under the 
Hoover plan. The hearing board would have been a panel made up of one 
judge and two citizens. But the hearings Ã¢â¬Åwill not be bound by the rules 
of evidence,Ã¢â¬Â his letter noted.

The only modern precedent for HooverÃ¢â¬â¢s plan was the Palmer Raids of 
1920, named after the attorney general at the time. The raids, executed 
in large part by HooverÃ¢â¬â¢s intelligence division, swept up thousands of 
people suspected of being communists and radicals.

Previously declassified documents show that the F.B.I.Ã¢â¬â¢s Ã¢â¬Åsecurity 
indexÃ¢â¬Â of suspect Americans predated the cold war. In March 1946, Hoover 
sought the authority to detain Americans Ã¢â¬Åwho might be dangerousÃ¢â¬Â 
if the 
United States

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

I do not define any writer/director by one or two things they have done, 
but their body of work.  That is why I was running the resumes of the 
artists that you said did not have IT or have range to cross over 
genres  It seems to me that you see one or two thing done by a director 
and define him by it. 

Funny you were just stressing to me that Ang Lee had done other films.  
Come to find out you do not even know what they are.   In addition to 
Crouching Tiger, he won critical acclaim and awards for The Ice Storm, 
Sense and Sensibility, Eat Drink Man Woman and Brokeback Mountain.   
There are a few other films that he is known for, but I have not seen 
them or heard as much about them

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at home. mind you, I loved Crouching 
 Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his 
 vision for that one.
  
  
 I don't think that Ang Lee should be define by The Hulk and CTHD. I am sure 
 that he has done other films. 
  
  
  



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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

yeah, see, that's one of my problems with younger filmmakers: no establishing 
shots. Just like a good story (which it is) a good movie should slowly build to 
action and adventure. If you just get on with it, you end up focusing more on 
action and less on things like plot, acting, and the all-important, 
oft-neglected thing called suspense or build up.  And when that happens, 
you go down this road of having to top each subsequent film with more 
outrageous action, more expensive FX, louder music, more frenetic camera shots, 
as audiences get inured to the effects of what came before. LOTR succeeds 
because it's an engaging *story* with good writing and a good *adventure*, that 
is supported and bolstered by the action and FX.  The Two Towers arguably is 
the most overall action intense of the three films, and it's my least favorite. 
I much more remember the little things of suspense: Gandalf's battle with the 
Balrog, but more importantly, the reaction of the Fellowship when he fel
l...the moment in the first film when the Dark Riders entered Barliman's 
tavern, preceed by mist, the owner cowering in terror behind the bar...the 
scene of overwhelming sadness and resignation at the meeting in Rivendale when 
Frodo says I will take the Ring. But...I do not know the way.

Maybe it is generational, but this tendency to ignore slow build ups, long 
camera pans, and suspense in favor of immediate action and gratification just 
doesn't always work for me.  The best films--scifi or fantasy--from Blade 
Runner to The Matrix, succeed because they have something behind the action and 
FX. If you just jump into things, you have all gloss but no substance.

Off the soapbox now!  :)

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

The Lord Of The Rings movies bore me because they move entirely too slow.
There are entire scenes dedicated to establishing shots. I know I'm
Generation X and I'm used to MTV style editing and all that, but I just
think the entire first movie could have been covered in 30 minutes and then
we could have gotten on with the second film, which is where the action
sort of was.

When I saw these movies in a theater I immediately sympathized with people
who don't like Star Trek. If you've never cared about any of the Trek
series, and the first time someone sits you down to watch it, it's the
first movie, you are going to fall asleep. Because it is a long and drawn
out story about people with whom you have no connection whatsoever.

I didn't grow up reading Tolkien. I grew up reading Asimov and watching old
Flash Gordon. When my friends in high school played DD, I was reading
Douglas Adams. It's why I don't get Beowulf. It's why I've never played
Zelda.

So when I watched the movies on DVD, I was able to study the filmmaking. I
could stop and check the details. I could go get a sandwich. Take a phone
call. I was impressed by what I saw, because it was like someone had taken
all this time to put all this data on screen. It was made, in my opinion,
to stop and take it all in. Freeze frame, slow-mo. The LOTR movies are
the best argument for HD that I can imagine.

On 12/22/07 1:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 why do you think LOTR bored you at the theatre? what was the difference in
 your home viewing experience?
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 And here is where the fandom line is sort of drawn. I have said this before,
 and I will say it again. I saw LOTR in a theater and I have never had such a
 good sleep outside of my own bed. I tried again with the second picture, and
 again, fell asleep. These just aren¹t my kind of stories. I can appreciate
 the production value, but I simply have never cared about these stories. So
 last year I watched all three on DVD, stayed awake, and was amazed at what I
 saw. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker and tells stories better than many
 of his contemporaries.
 
 Raimi has done stories that I DO care about, and I have to say that he is
 remarkably inconsistent. Consistently FUNNY, but not exactly a string of
 classics. I like Sam himself more than the pictures he¹s done. WITH THE
 EXCEPTION of Spider Man 2.
 
 On 12/22/07 11:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 i gotta disagree on Hellboy. That movie rocked. And some of the pieces: the
 initial magic working with Nazis, the religious dude, the look and feel of
 their headquarters, all show a deft hand with set design, FX, and even CGI.
 It's not a direct one-to-one correlation with the world of the Hobbit, but my
 point is the basic skillsets and abilities shown there can be adapted. I
 mean,
 after Blood Simple (think that was it) and The Frighteners, I never would
 have
 pegged Jackson to be right for LOTR, but New Line saw something in him...
 
 -- Original message --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:Gymfig%40aol.com
 
 In a message dated 12/22/2007 1:44:29

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

definitely a generational thing. I won't watch a movie on DVD at home unless i 
can be assured of watching it in one sitting with minimal interruptions. Don't 
take phone calls, prepare my food ahead of time. I get that stopping and 
examining the film is cool (do it myself). But they're meant to be digested at 
one sitting, with all those things you mentioned fllowing together to make a 
good whole. 

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

The Lord Of The Rings movies bore me because they move entirely too slow.
There are entire scenes dedicated to establishing shots. I know I'm
Generation X and I'm used to MTV style editing and all that, but I just
think the entire first movie could have been covered in 30 minutes and then
we could have gotten on with the second film, which is where the action
sort of was.

When I saw these movies in a theater I immediately sympathized with people
who don't like Star Trek. If you've never cared about any of the Trek
series, and the first time someone sits you down to watch it, it's the
first movie, you are going to fall asleep. Because it is a long and drawn
out story about people with whom you have no connection whatsoever.

I didn't grow up reading Tolkien. I grew up reading Asimov and watching old
Flash Gordon. When my friends in high school played DD, I was reading
Douglas Adams. It's why I don't get Beowulf. It's why I've never played
Zelda.

So when I watched the movies on DVD, I was able to study the filmmaking. I
could stop and check the details. I could go get a sandwich. Take a phone
call. I was impressed by what I saw, because it was like someone had taken
all this time to put all this data on screen. It was made, in my opinion,
to stop and take it all in. Freeze frame, slow-mo. The LOTR movies are
the best argument for HD that I can imagine.

On 12/22/07 1:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 why do you think LOTR bored you at the theatre? what was the difference in
 your home viewing experience?
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 And here is where the fandom line is sort of drawn. I have said this before,
 and I will say it again. I saw LOTR in a theater and I have never had such a
 good sleep outside of my own bed. I tried again with the second picture, and
 again, fell asleep. These just aren¹t my kind of stories. I can appreciate
 the production value, but I simply have never cared about these stories. So
 last year I watched all three on DVD, stayed awake, and was amazed at what I
 saw. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker and tells stories better than many
 of his contemporaries.
 
 Raimi has done stories that I DO care about, and I have to say that he is
 remarkably inconsistent. Consistently FUNNY, but not exactly a string of
 classics. I like Sam himself more than the pictures he¹s done. WITH THE
 EXCEPTION of Spider Man 2.
 
 On 12/22/07 11:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 i gotta disagree on Hellboy. That movie rocked. And some of the pieces: the
 initial magic working with Nazis, the religious dude, the look and feel of
 their headquarters, all show a deft hand with set design, FX, and even CGI.
 It's not a direct one-to-one correlation with the world of the Hobbit, but my
 point is the basic skillsets and abilities shown there can be adapted. I
 mean,
 after Blood Simple (think that was it) and The Frighteners, I never would
 have
 pegged Jackson to be right for LOTR, but New Line saw something in him...
 
 -- Original message --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:Gymfig%40aol.com
 
 In a message dated 12/22/2007 1:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net writes:
 
 for some reason I feel del Toro's immersion in fantasy (Pan's Labyrinth, Hell
 boy) would work, combined with his natural ebullience and childlike sense of
 wonder
 
 Pan had other theme intertwined in the movie. The Hobbit is not a mature
 prequel. Maybe he could do Tne Simarillion.
 
 Hellboy was a cheap comic book adaptation. It is good for the Sci Fi channel
 or FX. I don't see The Hobbit being a sci fi or FX kind of movie. The tone is
 too different. 
 
 **See AOL's top rated recipes
 (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
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* To visit your group on the web, go to:
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

although we're diammetrically opposed (see my two responses), and I really 
lament the decline in filmmaking quality among some--those damn fast 
cameras!--i was impressed with how you stated your feelings. You always have 
insightful things to say about movies and pop culture. Obviously you think 
about these things a great deal. I may not always agree with you, but i always 
get food for thought from what you say.

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

The Lord Of The Rings movies bore me because they move entirely too slow.
There are entire scenes dedicated to establishing shots. I know I'm
Generation X and I'm used to MTV style editing and all that, but I just
think the entire first movie could have been covered in 30 minutes and then
we could have gotten on with the second film, which is where the action
sort of was.

When I saw these movies in a theater I immediately sympathized with people
who don't like Star Trek. If you've never cared about any of the Trek
series, and the first time someone sits you down to watch it, it's the
first movie, you are going to fall asleep. Because it is a long and drawn
out story about people with whom you have no connection whatsoever.

I didn't grow up reading Tolkien. I grew up reading Asimov and watching old
Flash Gordon. When my friends in high school played DD, I was reading
Douglas Adams. It's why I don't get Beowulf. It's why I've never played
Zelda.

So when I watched the movies on DVD, I was able to study the filmmaking. I
could stop and check the details. I could go get a sandwich. Take a phone
call. I was impressed by what I saw, because it was like someone had taken
all this time to put all this data on screen. It was made, in my opinion,
to stop and take it all in. Freeze frame, slow-mo. The LOTR movies are
the best argument for HD that I can imagine.

On 12/22/07 1:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 why do you think LOTR bored you at the theatre? what was the difference in
 your home viewing experience?
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 And here is where the fandom line is sort of drawn. I have said this before,
 and I will say it again. I saw LOTR in a theater and I have never had such a
 good sleep outside of my own bed. I tried again with the second picture, and
 again, fell asleep. These just aren¹t my kind of stories. I can appreciate
 the production value, but I simply have never cared about these stories. So
 last year I watched all three on DVD, stayed awake, and was amazed at what I
 saw. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker and tells stories better than many
 of his contemporaries.
 
 Raimi has done stories that I DO care about, and I have to say that he is
 remarkably inconsistent. Consistently FUNNY, but not exactly a string of
 classics. I like Sam himself more than the pictures he¹s done. WITH THE
 EXCEPTION of Spider Man 2.
 
 On 12/22/07 11:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 i gotta disagree on Hellboy. That movie rocked. And some of the pieces: the
 initial magic working with Nazis, the religious dude, the look and feel of
 their headquarters, all show a deft hand with set design, FX, and even CGI.
 It's not a direct one-to-one correlation with the world of the Hobbit, but my
 point is the basic skillsets and abilities shown there can be adapted. I
 mean,
 after Blood Simple (think that was it) and The Frighteners, I never would
 have
 pegged Jackson to be right for LOTR, but New Line saw something in him...
 
 -- Original message --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:Gymfig%40aol.com
 
 In a message dated 12/22/2007 1:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net writes:
 
 for some reason I feel del Toro's immersion in fantasy (Pan's Labyrinth, Hell
 boy) would work, combined with his natural ebullience and childlike sense of
 wonder
 
 Pan had other theme intertwined in the movie. The Hobbit is not a mature
 prequel. Maybe he could do Tne Simarillion.
 
 Hellboy was a cheap comic book adaptation. It is good for the Sci Fi channel
 or FX. I don't see The Hobbit being a sci fi or FX kind of movie. The tone is
 too different. 
 
 **See AOL's top rated recipes
 (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
 Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 


 

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]



 
Yahoo! Groups Links

* To visit your group on the web, go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/

* Your email settings:
Individual Email | Traditional

* To change settings online go to:
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/scifinoir2/join

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

 
In a message dated 12/24/2007 2:46:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

In addition to 
Crouching Tiger, he won critical acclaim and awards for The Ice Storm, 
Sense and Sensibility, Eat Drink Man Woman and Brokeback Mountain.   
There are a few other films that he is known for, but I have not seen 
them or heard as much about them

 
 
 
I have seen those movies. He is not just a martial arts director. I like 
that. Raimi seem to be an action director. 



**See AOL's top rated recipes 
(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

In a message dated 12/24/2007 9:27:23 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
[EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

Wha? Have you  SEEN the LOTR films? Is it possible to BE more Hollywood than
a multimillion dollar  film starring Orlando Bloom,
Never really heard of him before this. 
 
 
 

Liv Tyler,
 
Never really heard of her either
 

Sean Bean,
 
Is not really knoew to American audiences. He has done alot of British 
television and film.  He does alot of supporting roles. He is not a big name 
celebrity/
 
 


Cate Blanchett,
Did Elizabeth. Not a celebrity
 
 

Hugo Weaving (POST Matrix), 
 
Never saw nor heard of him before
 
 

Elijah Wood,
 
Nope 
 

Sir Ian McKellen
Nope 
 
 


(who HAD done X Men at this point) this was as Hollywood as you could GET in
2001. 


Besides that, he was not a Clinnt eastwood
 


LOTR is an example of
Hollywood pulling out all the stops to make a picture.
They did a damn good job. It was NOT a typical fantasy film



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(http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

2007-12-24 Thread Bosco Bosco

Badda Bing Badda Boom he nails it. LOTR was as big and as a
commercial as Hollywood gets. The marketing and advertising budgets
alone were enough to feed most thirdworld countries for a decade.

Bosco 
--- Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Wha? Have you  SEEN the LOTR films? Is it possible to BE more
 Hollywood than
 a multimillion dollar  film starring Orlando Bloom, Liv Tyler, Sean
 Bean,
 Cate Blanchett, Hugo Weaving (POST Matrix), Elijah Wood, Sir Ian
 McKellen
 (who HAD done X Men at this point) this was as Hollywood as you
 could GET in
 2001. 
 
 ³It² is subjective. If you don¹t like Peter  Jackson, you don¹t
 like Peter
 Jackson. But to say that ANY of the LOTR films seemed Independent
 is not to
 understand independent film. Star Wars Episode 4, as it was
 released in
 1977, is an example of a big budget independent film. LOTR is an
 example of
 Hollywood pulling out all the stops to make a picture.
 
 
 On 12/24/07 6:12 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
   
   
   
  
   
  In a message dated 12/23/2007 7:17:01 PM Eastern Standard Time,
  [EMAIL PROTECTED]
  mailto:tdlists%40multiculturaladvantage.com  writes:
  
  M. Night Shyamalan wrote Stuart Little the
  same year he did the Six Sense
  
  Flop Too commmerical.
  Harry Potter was too commercial. I like  LOTR films because it
 did not have
  that Hollywood commercial film. It was as if it was an
 independent film.
  Potter is too generic to co,pare. The director will not have that
 magic
  that 
  will not make it a commerical film. I am not talking about a
 independent film.
  I 
  am talking about IT.   Jackson did something to those books that
 transforme
  them.  Yes he changed some things. However he made them
 beautiful. I loved the
  location and sets. it was as if you were really there. It was not
 a ypical
  fantasy film. 
   
   
  Curon and del Toro will not build upon that. Since there are some
 characters
  from the first books in the Hobbit, the film will be different.
 It won't have
  that same feeling. I am not looking for Gothic or Sullen Harry
 Potter.
  
  **See AOL's top rated recipes
  (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
  
  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
  
   
  
 
 
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 


I got friends who are in prison and Friends who are dead.
I'm gonna tell ya something that I've often said.

You know these things that happen,
That's just the way it's supposed to be.
And I can't help but wonder,
Don't ya know it coulda been me.


  

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know-it-all with Yahoo! Mobile.  Try it now.  
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

2007-12-24 Thread Bosco Bosco

Raimi has done several projects that were not Action films including
a Simple Plan which features a really fabulous performance from Billy
Bob Thorton. He also directed the Gift and For the Love of The Game.

Bosco
--- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

  
 In a message dated 12/24/2007 2:46:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:
 
 In addition to 
 Crouching Tiger, he won critical acclaim and awards for The Ice
 Storm, 
 Sense and Sensibility, Eat Drink Man Woman and Brokeback Mountain. 
  
 There are a few other films that he is known for, but I have not
 seen 
 them or heard as much about them
 
  
  
  
 I have seen those movies. He is not just a martial arts director. I
 like 
 that. Raimi seem to be an action director. 
 
 
 
 **See AOL's top rated recipes 
 (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304)
 
 
 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 


I got friends who are in prison and Friends who are dead.
I'm gonna tell ya something that I've often said.

You know these things that happen,
That's just the way it's supposed to be.
And I can't help but wonder,
Don't ya know it coulda been me.


  

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Find them fast with Yahoo! Search.  
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

2007-12-24 Thread Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)

Wow, what a wonderful compliment! Thank you!

I talk a lot about popcorn movies, but I really love the art of filmmaking.
When done right, it's a beautiful art form. Many cinematographers and sound
mixers I admire got started on some really crappy films. And a lot of times
in those movies they do some really creative work that slips by the studios
and makes it to the screen. When a director has a good eye (or trusts their
DP) --  I think it shows.

You have an eye for the written word and how it is brought to life, which
is really, really important. Too many stories are lost in the process of
comic penciling and filmmaking. So to me, we aren't really opposing as much
as we are coming to the same point from different angles. It's like if the
two of us collaborated on the same picture, it would have a serious -- but
funny -- script with solid effects, really balanced camera work -- and the
best looking female cast in the history of cinema!





On 12/24/07 3:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 although we're diammetrically opposed (see my two responses), and I really
 lament the decline in filmmaking quality among some--those damn fast
 cameras!--i was impressed with how you stated your feelings. You always have
 insightful things to say about movies and pop culture. Obviously you think
 about these things a great deal. I may not always agree with you, but i always
 get food for thought from what you say.
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 The Lord Of The Rings movies bore me because they move entirely too slow.
 There are entire scenes dedicated to establishing shots. I know I'm
 Generation X and I'm used to MTV style editing and all that, but I just
 think the entire first movie could have been covered in 30 minutes and then
 we could have gotten on with the second film, which is where the action
 sort of was.
 
 When I saw these movies in a theater I immediately sympathized with people
 who don't like Star Trek. If you've never cared about any of the Trek
 series, and the first time someone sits you down to watch it, it's the
 first movie, you are going to fall asleep. Because it is a long and drawn
 out story about people with whom you have no connection whatsoever.
 
 I didn't grow up reading Tolkien. I grew up reading Asimov and watching old
 Flash Gordon. When my friends in high school played DD, I was reading
 Douglas Adams. It's why I don't get Beowulf. It's why I've never played
 Zelda.
 
 So when I watched the movies on DVD, I was able to study the filmmaking. I
 could stop and check the details. I could go get a sandwich. Take a phone
 call. I was impressed by what I saw, because it was like someone had taken
 all this time to put all this data on screen. It was made, in my opinion,
 to stop and take it all in. Freeze frame, slow-mo. The LOTR movies are
 the best argument for HD that I can imagine.
 
 On 12/22/07 1:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 why do you think LOTR bored you at the theatre? what was the difference in
 your home viewing experience?
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 And here is where the fandom line is sort of drawn. I have said this before,
 and I will say it again. I saw LOTR in a theater and I have never had such a
 good sleep outside of my own bed. I tried again with the second picture, and
 again, fell asleep. These just aren¹t my kind of stories. I can appreciate
 the production value, but I simply have never cared about these stories. So
 last year I watched all three on DVD, stayed awake, and was amazed at what I
 saw. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker and tells stories better than many
 of his contemporaries.
 
 Raimi has done stories that I DO care about, and I have to say that he is
 remarkably inconsistent. Consistently FUNNY, but not exactly a string of
 classics. I like Sam himself more than the pictures he¹s done. WITH THE
 EXCEPTION of Spider Man 2.
 
 On 12/22/07 11:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 i gotta disagree on Hellboy. That movie rocked. And some of the pieces:
 the
 initial magic working with Nazis, the religious dude, the look and feel of
 their headquarters, all show a deft hand with set design, FX, and even CGI.
 It's not a direct one-to-one correlation with the world of the Hobbit, but
 my
 point is the basic skillsets and abilities shown there can be adapted. I
 mean,
 after Blood Simple (think that was it) and The Frighteners, I never would
 have
 pegged Jackson to be right for LOTR, but New Line saw something in him...
 
 -- Original message --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:Gymfig%40aol.com
 
 In a message dated 12/22/2007 1:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net writes:
 
 for some reason I feel del Toro's immersion in fantasy (Pan's Labyrinth,
 Hell
 boy) would work, combined with his natural ebullience

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

Whether you like it or not is irrelevant in determining a success of a 
movie.  Try as you might and you do, you can not change facts.  Good try 
thought/  Stuart Little was such a flop it had a sequel.  Im not even 
going to go there with The Sixth Sense.Which Harry Potter.  How do 
you criticize things without seeing them.  Do you know which one I'm 
talking to.  Chris Columbus Potter films are dramatically different than 
Cuaron's.  How do you know what Cuaron and del Toro have the ability to 
build on when you have only seen one or two of their films and a few clips?

Before Lord of the Rings, Jackson did Heavenly Creatures, the 
Frighteners, some  in the outback and three other movies.  The 
Frighteners was the closest to the fantasy of LOTR - and not remotely 
close at that.

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
  
 In a message dated 12/23/2007 7:17:01 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 M. Night Shyamalan wrote Stuart Little the 
 same year he did the Six Sense

  Flop Too commmerical. 
 Harry Potter was too commercial. I like  LOTR films because it did not have 
 that Hollywood commercial film. It was as if it was an independent film.  
 Potter is too generic to co,pare. The director will not have that magic  
 that 
 will not make it a commerical film. I am not talking about a independent 
 film. I 
 am talking about IT.   Jackson did something to those books that transforme 
 them.  Yes he changed some things. However he made them beautiful. I loved 
 the 
 location and sets. it was as if you were really there. It was not a ypical 
 fantasy film. 
  
  
 Curon and del Toro will not build upon that. Since there are some characters 
 from the first books in the Hobbit, the film will be different. It won't have 
 that same feeling. I am not looking for Gothic or Sullen Harry Potter. 



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Re: [scifinoir2] Comics to Film

According to Wikipedia (insert grain of NaCl here), this is the rationale for 
the Galactus Cloud:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galactus
20th Century Fox's rationale for having the character as a cloud was to keep 
him discreet.[65] Visual effects studio Weta Digital convinced Fox to add 
physical hints of the comic book incarnation, such as a shadow and the fiery 
mass within the cloud resembling a helmet.[65] Director Tim Story claimed he 
made Galactus a cloud so that the future Silver Surfer spin-off film would have 
a chance to be unique and introduce the character as he normally appears.[66] 
J. Michael Straczynski, the spin-off's writer, confirmed Galactus is in his 
script and that You don't want to sort of blow out something that big and 
massive for one quick shot in the first movie.

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
This is the result of having the script done by a non-fan...I'm necessarily a 
fan, but I am in a funk over the cloud thing...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: minor spoilers--but it doesn't matter

The Surfer is *supposed* to be strengthened by the Power Cosmic, imparted to 
him by Galactus. The silvery material covering him makes him invulnerable to 
most injury, but outside of that material, the Power gives him innate powers of 
super strength, immortality, matter/energy manipulation, a complete lack of 
need for food or air, etc. The board allows him to fly at FTL speeds and helps 
him navigate, but it is *not* the *source* of his powers, merely an extension 
of them: a peripheral, if you will. It's akin to the relationship between 
Mjolnir and Thor. The Power Cosmic is fully integrated into the Surfer's body, 
not just in the board.

In the movie, they said the Surfer's powers *all* originated from the board, as 
evidenced by the scan tape that showed energy surging from it into the Surfer's 
body when Doom was attacking him. So, by simply separating him from the board, 
they greatly weakened him. That is absolute crap. Why in the world did the 
idiot writer have to rewrite things like that? Too stupid to work within the 
confines of the established comic lore?

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer 
Sorry too...Um, what is the source of the Silver Surfer's power?

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: sorry! I think Astro stirred me up, bringing up the 
Galactus cloud and all!

-- Original message -- 
From: Martin 
Keith, spot on with your analysis of Reed. And the therapy bill's in the mail, 
for bringing back the horror of that movie...

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: me too, and no evidence of sentience in Galactus, and 
that battle between him and the Surfer--gawd that movie sucked!
I'm still most pissed at the Surfer's source of power being changed--gawd that 
movie sucked!

There's a better Reed Richards to be depicted. I really like Ian as Reed, but 
they've written Reed as too uncertain, too much of a wimp. That is *not* Reed 
Richards. He's always been distracted, absent-minded, overly analytical, dense 
in the ways of romance at times, but he was never uncertain and unsure unless 
someone like Doom had one of his loved ones in danger. Reed might have been a 
bookwarm, but that's not the same as a wimp.

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer 
I agree about the choice of Alba as Sue Richards too...plus I was major pissed 
that they turned Galactus into a frickin' cloud monster!!!

[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: although many applaud or at least tolerate the FF 
movies because they have a sense of fun, i've found them to be trash. Alba 
can't act, is the wrong choice for Sue, and the scripts have sucked. Galactus 
was a bitter disappointment, the change to the source of the Surfer's power was 
laughably pitiful, and the Doctor Doom's character needs to go. i do agree that 
the whole thing needs to be re-written, and maybe McDuffie could do a job to 
save what is to me a wasted opportunity so far.

I didn't see Awake. Alba doesn't do enough for me in any department to go see 
a movie in which she's starring.

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle 
I thought Peter's dance was a highlight of the picture. That is to say, the
whole picture was bad. I don't think anyone will be able to do a better
picture than Spider Man 2. I'd hand the franchise off to another director at
this point and let Raimi co-produce.

When I hold Spiderman 3 against Rise of the Silver Surfer, I have to
say that Rise is a better picture. Tim is trying to build a sense of
friendship between the four, whereas Spiderman is just rehashing the same
relationships and trying to dazzle us with effects. I do think that if there
is to be a third Fantastic Four picture, Dwayne McDuffie and/or Reggie
Hudlin simply HAVE to be brought in to write the script. Black Panther and
Fantastic Four are simply two of the best books out right now, and Dwayne's
writing in Justice League of America is

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

2007-12-24 Thread Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)

I was gonna leave this alone with the Raimi discussion, but hey, it's
Christmas.

I think these kinds of conversations are like sports conversations, and so
it's fitting that we're having it around the holiday. It isn't crucial that
you've seen every game ever played, but it helps for one to have seen beyond
the last two playoff games before one starts talking about which coach
should be fired or hired.


On 12/24/07 2:46 PM, Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 I do not define any writer/director by one or two things they have done,
 but their body of work.  That is why I was running the resumes of the
 artists that you said did not have IT or have range to cross over
 genres  It seems to me that you see one or two thing done by a director
 and define him by it.
 
 Funny you were just stressing to me that Ang Lee had done other films.
 Come to find out you do not even know what they are.   In addition to
 Crouching Tiger, he won critical acclaim and awards for The Ice Storm,
 Sense and Sensibility, Eat Drink Man Woman and Brokeback Mountain.
 There are a few other films that he is known for, but I have not seen
 them or heard as much about them
 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at home. mind you, I loved Crouching
 Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his
 vision for that one.
  
  
 I don't think that Ang Lee should be define by The Hulk and CTHD. I am sure
 that he has done other films.
  
  
  
 
 
 
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

The Angst that you described is the Angst I always felt when watching 
the Bill Bixby Series, so while I too needed a stiff drink, it felt more 
of the same for me.  However, the CGI was absolutely horrible-- 
especially when the Hulk turned into a bouncing green ball.

Martin wrote:
 LMNAO!!!

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:  i agree, i'd probably need therapy after 
 seeing an Ang Lee rendition of The Hobbit. I was actually depressed after 
 Hulk. it was such a brooding, downbeat movie. I'm all for well done angst 
 in comic films. Indeed, it's those movies with realistic human drama that are 
 the best, even in the cape-and-cowl genre. But Hulk--i came out of it feeling 
 like i needed a shower and a stiff drink. And I don't drink!

 -- Original message -- 
 From: Martin [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
 After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at home. mind you, I loved Crouching 
 Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his 
 vision for that one.

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
 In a message dated 12/22/2007 11:00:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 they're good examples of story, acting, plotting, action, FX, CGI, and that 
 all-important, all-evasise look of a film.

 They may be okay directors but they don't have the it factor. I don't expect 
 Scorsese to do the Hobbit. It is not his style. I don't expect Eastwood to do 
 it either. I can see Ang Lee doing it. He has don different genres of film.

 These directors have not. 

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 There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
 Country

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 There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
 Country

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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

2007-12-24 Thread Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)

I forgot he do those.  I love him too.  Hopefully, Spidey 3 is an aberration

Bosco Bosco wrote:
 Raimi has done several projects that were not Action films including
 a Simple Plan which features a really fabulous performance from Billy
 Bob Thorton. He also directed the Gift and For the Love of The Game.

 Bosco
 --- [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
  
 In a message dated 12/24/2007 2:46:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, 
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes:

 In addition to 
 Crouching Tiger, he won critical acclaim and awards for The Ice
 Storm, 
 Sense and Sensibility, Eat Drink Man Woman and Brokeback Mountain. 
  
 There are a few other films that he is known for, but I have not
 seen 
 them or heard as much about them

  
  
  
 I have seen those movies. He is not just a martial arts director. I
 like 
 that. Raimi seem to be an action director. 



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 I got friends who are in prison and Friends who are dead.
 I'm gonna tell ya something that I've often said.

 You know these things that happen,
 That's just the way it's supposed to be.
 And I can't help but wonder,
 Don't ya know it coulda been me.


   
 
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

2007-12-24 Thread Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)

I agree. I do not think you have to have seen every move done by an 
artist to assess there abilities, I do think one or two out of 20 or 30 
movies is not enough to judge their range.

Daryle wrote:
 I was gonna leave this alone with the Raimi discussion, but hey, it's
 Christmas.

 I think these kinds of conversations are like sports conversations, and so
 it's fitting that we're having it around the holiday. It isn't crucial that
 you've seen every game ever played, but it helps for one to have seen beyond
 the last two playoff games before one starts talking about which coach
 should be fired or hired.


 On 12/24/07 2:46 PM, Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

   
 I do not define any writer/director by one or two things they have done,
 but their body of work.  That is why I was running the resumes of the
 artists that you said did not have IT or have range to cross over
 genres  It seems to me that you see one or two thing done by a director
 and define him by it.

 Funny you were just stressing to me that Ang Lee had done other films.
 Come to find out you do not even know what they are.   In addition to
 Crouching Tiger, he won critical acclaim and awards for The Ice Storm,
 Sense and Sensibility, Eat Drink Man Woman and Brokeback Mountain.
 There are a few other films that he is known for, but I have not seen
 them or heard as much about them

 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at home. mind you, I loved 
 Crouching
 Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his
 vision for that one.
  
  
 I don't think that Ang Lee should be define by The Hulk and CTHD. I am sure
 that he has done other films.
  
  
  



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[scifinoir2] Re: somewhat related/I am Legend response

2007-12-24 Thread maidmarian_thepoet

You asked what I thought of I am Legend.  It's a fine
adventure movie.  I took my glasses off at various times, less I see
what I didn't want to see.  (And I was annoyed to hear that some
people bought young and impressionable kids to the picture.  Lots of
nightmares tonight, I would imagine.)  And Will Smith, despite saying
that his days of action movies will soon be behind him, still acquits
himself well.  There is the requisite abs scene where he proves that he
can still do pull-ups.

Nevertheless.  What I remember of the original novella is the emotional
impact of the end.  I'm not asking for the book to be re-enacted; I
don't even completely remember what happens in the book.  However, I
wanted that emotional sting.

There was quite a different book that I read while in high school. The
author was tracing the belief in fairies, elves and such.  He came to
the conclusion that the belief was based on the shorter inhabitants of
Britain that the Anglo-Saxons ran into when they conquered the island. 
The Picts, as I remember. As time passed, those human barrow folk became
our legends of elves living in barrows.

The end of the original novella was like thatthe protagonist looks
over the sea of monsters and realizes that they are creating
their own society.  He realizes that he will become the boogey man of
this new generation.  This was almost implied in the movie.  The Will
Smith character never has time to consider that they trapped him as he
trapped them.  He never wonders if the man who exposed himself to light
was seeking to retrieve his partner.  It's the audience that
understands what the character does not.  Then we got the cheesy ending
that implies that the plague was stopped.I'm ready for the
director's cut and the actual nihilistic ending that the movie
called for.   I am Legend is an apocalyptic story.  If the
apocalypse doesn't comewhat's the point?


Not that every movie has to have an unhappy ending.  I ran into
Hogfather on cable last night.  I didn't realize that
someone had filmed Terry Prachett's novel where Death takes over the
job of Hogfather (readSanta Claus) for a night.  I love Death's
explanation to his human granddaughter (long story) that humans have to
learn to believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus at an early age so
that they will believe in Justice and Mercy when they grow up.  
Death's opinion is that Justice and Mercy exist because we humans
believe that there actually are logical constructs with those names.  It
was sweet to see a defense of Santa Claus that actually included, in the
course of the movie, an explanation of where most winter festivals came
from.


--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey
L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:

 Extremely related.  I just posted a long post about Burton.  Gymfig
said
 he does not he it and in my opinion, he's got something.  You post
 supports that.  I will add Sweeney Todd  to my list.  Let us know what
 you think about Legend

 maidmarian_thepoet wrote:
  I can recommend Sweeney Todd.  No less than the NY Times declares
it
  is a horror musical, which I guess is somewhat related to the topics
we
  cover here.  It's always been one of my favorite musicals.
 
  What can I say?   It's a perfect antidote to the  sappy movies that
we
  usually get at this season.  And in its way, it's a slap at
  laizzez-faire capitalism.
 
  I will try to hit I am Legend today.  Alas, I've already missed
the
  cheap showing.
 
 
 
  [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
 
 
 
 
  Yahoo! Groups Links
 
 
 
 
 
 




[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: somewhat related/I am Legend response

2007-12-24 Thread Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor)

Great Review.  Almost everyone who has read the book or even seem Omega 
man was shocked at the saccharin ending. 

maidmarian_thepoet wrote:
 You asked what I thought of I am Legend.  It's a fine
 adventure movie.  I took my glasses off at various times, less I see
 what I didn't want to see.  (And I was annoyed to hear that some
 people bought young and impressionable kids to the picture.  Lots of
 nightmares tonight, I would imagine.)  And Will Smith, despite saying
 that his days of action movies will soon be behind him, still acquits
 himself well.  There is the requisite abs scene where he proves that he
 can still do pull-ups.

 Nevertheless.  What I remember of the original novella is the emotional
 impact of the end.  I'm not asking for the book to be re-enacted; I
 don't even completely remember what happens in the book.  However, I
 wanted that emotional sting.

 There was quite a different book that I read while in high school. The
 author was tracing the belief in fairies, elves and such.  He came to
 the conclusion that the belief was based on the shorter inhabitants of
 Britain that the Anglo-Saxons ran into when they conquered the island. 
 The Picts, as I remember. As time passed, those human barrow folk became
 our legends of elves living in barrows.

 The end of the original novella was like that---the protagonist looks
 over the sea of monsters and realizes that they are creating
 their own society.  He realizes that he will become the boogey man of
 this new generation.  This was almost implied in the movie.  The Will
 Smith character never has time to consider that they trapped him as he
 trapped them.  He never wonders if the man who exposed himself to light
 was seeking to retrieve his partner.  It's the audience that
 understands what the character does not.  Then we got the cheesy ending
 that implies that the plague was stopped.I'm ready for the
 director's cut and the actual nihilistic ending that the movie
 called for.   I am Legend is an apocalyptic story.  If the
 apocalypse doesn't come---what's the point?


 Not that every movie has to have an unhappy ending.  I ran into
 Hogfather on cable last night.  I didn't realize that
 someone had filmed Terry Prachett's novel where Death takes over the
 job of Hogfather (read---Santa Claus) for a night.  I love Death's
 explanation to his human granddaughter (long story) that humans have to
 learn to believe in the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus at an early age so
 that they will believe in Justice and Mercy when they grow up.  
 Death's opinion is that Justice and Mercy exist because we humans
 believe that there actually are logical constructs with those names.  It
 was sweet to see a defense of Santa Claus that actually included, in the
 course of the movie, an explanation of where most winter festivals came
 from.


 --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey
 L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
   
 Extremely related.  I just posted a long post about Burton.  Gymfig
 
 said
   
 he does not he it and in my opinion, he's got something.  You post
 supports that.  I will add Sweeney Todd  to my list.  Let us know what
 you think about Legend

 maidmarian_thepoet wrote:
 
 I can recommend Sweeney Todd.  No less than the NY Times declares
   
 it
   
 is a horror musical, which I guess is somewhat related to the topics
   
 we
   
 cover here.  It's always been one of my favorite musicals.

 What can I say?   It's a perfect antidote to the  sappy movies that
   
 we
   
 usually get at this season.  And in its way, it's a slap at
 laizzez-faire capitalism.

 I will try to hit I am Legend today.  Alas, I've already missed
   
 the
   
 cheap showing.



 [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]




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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

so true, and thanks to you too!

-- Original message -- 
From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
Wow, what a wonderful compliment! Thank you!

I talk a lot about popcorn movies, but I really love the art of filmmaking.
When done right, it's a beautiful art form. Many cinematographers and sound
mixers I admire got started on some really crappy films. And a lot of times
in those movies they do some really creative work that slips by the studios
and makes it to the screen. When a director has a good eye (or trusts their
DP) -- I think it shows.

You have an eye for the written word and how it is brought to life, which
is really, really important. Too many stories are lost in the process of
comic penciling and filmmaking. So to me, we aren't really opposing as much
as we are coming to the same point from different angles. It's like if the
two of us collaborated on the same picture, it would have a serious -- but
funny -- script with solid effects, really balanced camera work -- and the
best looking female cast in the history of cinema!

On 12/24/07 3:10 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:

 although we're diammetrically opposed (see my two responses), and I really
 lament the decline in filmmaking quality among some--those damn fast
 cameras!--i was impressed with how you stated your feelings. You always have
 insightful things to say about movies and pop culture. Obviously you think
 about these things a great deal. I may not always agree with you, but i always
 get food for thought from what you say.
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 The Lord Of The Rings movies bore me because they move entirely too slow.
 There are entire scenes dedicated to establishing shots. I know I'm
 Generation X and I'm used to MTV style editing and all that, but I just
 think the entire first movie could have been covered in 30 minutes and then
 we could have gotten on with the second film, which is where the action
 sort of was.
 
 When I saw these movies in a theater I immediately sympathized with people
 who don't like Star Trek. If you've never cared about any of the Trek
 series, and the first time someone sits you down to watch it, it's the
 first movie, you are going to fall asleep. Because it is a long and drawn
 out story about people with whom you have no connection whatsoever.
 
 I didn't grow up reading Tolkien. I grew up reading Asimov and watching old
 Flash Gordon. When my friends in high school played DD, I was reading
 Douglas Adams. It's why I don't get Beowulf. It's why I've never played
 Zelda.
 
 So when I watched the movies on DVD, I was able to study the filmmaking. I
 could stop and check the details. I could go get a sandwich. Take a phone
 call. I was impressed by what I saw, because it was like someone had taken
 all this time to put all this data on screen. It was made, in my opinion,
 to stop and take it all in. Freeze frame, slow-mo. The LOTR movies are
 the best argument for HD that I can imagine.
 
 On 12/22/07 1:26 PM, [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 wrote:
 
 why do you think LOTR bored you at the theatre? what was the difference in
 your home viewing experience?
 
 -- Original message --
 From: Daryle [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 
 And here is where the fandom line is sort of drawn. I have said this before,
 and I will say it again. I saw LOTR in a theater and I have never had such a
 good sleep outside of my own bed. I tried again with the second picture, and
 again, fell asleep. These just aren¹t my kind of stories. I can appreciate
 the production value, but I simply have never cared about these stories. So
 last year I watched all three on DVD, stayed awake, and was amazed at what I
 saw. Peter Jackson is a great filmmaker and tells stories better than many
 of his contemporaries.
 
 Raimi has done stories that I DO care about, and I have to say that he is
 remarkably inconsistent. Consistently FUNNY, but not exactly a string of
 classics. I like Sam himself more than the pictures he¹s done. WITH THE
 EXCEPTION of Spider Man 2.
 
 On 12/22/07 11:15 AM, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
 
 
 
 
 
 i gotta disagree on Hellboy. That movie rocked. And some of the pieces:
 the
 initial magic working with Nazis, the religious dude, the look and feel of
 their headquarters, all show a deft hand with set design, FX, and even CGI.
 It's not a direct one-to-one correlation with the world of the Hobbit, but
 my
 point is the basic skillsets and abilities shown there can be adapted. I
 mean,
 after Blood Simple (think that was it) and The Frighteners, I never would
 have
 pegged Jackson to be right for LOTR, but New Line saw something in him...
 
 -- Original message --
 From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:Gymfig%40aol.com
 
 In a message dated 12/22/2007 1:44:29 AM Eastern Standard Time,
 [EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:KeithBJohnson%40comcast.net writes:
 
 for some reason I feel del

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit

the series was sombre at times, but the movie felt more so to me. It was 
actually downright depressing.  Good series that, even though the Hulk was 
drastically depowered. Good series, that is, until the horrible TV movie when 
they brought that idiotic version of Thor onto the scene. Ever see that one? 
Really, really awful!

-- Original message -- 
From: Tracey de Morsella (formerly Tracey L. Minor) [EMAIL PROTECTED] 

 The Angst that you described is the Angst I always felt when watching 
 the Bill Bixby Series, so while I too needed a stiff drink, it felt more 
 of the same for me. However, the CGI was absolutely horrible-- 
 especially when the Hulk turned into a bouncing green ball. 
 
 Martin wrote: 
  LMNAO!!! 
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: i agree, i'd probably need therapy 
 after seeing an Ang Lee rendition of The Hobbit. I was actually depressed 
 after 
 Hulk. it was such a brooding, downbeat movie. I'm all for well done angst 
 in 
 comic films. Indeed, it's those movies with realistic human drama that are 
 the 
 best, even in the cape-and-cowl genre. But Hulk--i came out of it feeling 
 like i 
 needed a shower and a stiff drink. And I don't drink! 
  
  -- Original message -- 
  From: Martin 
  After The Hulk, Ang Lee needs to stay at home. mind you, I loved 
  Crouching 
 Tiger, but I really want to know what he was thinking when he formed his 
 vision 
 for that one. 
  
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: 
  In a message dated 12/22/2007 11:00:29 AM Eastern Standard Time, 
  [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: 
  
  they're good examples of story, acting, plotting, action, FX, CGI, and that 
  all-important, all-evasise look of a film. 
  
  They may be okay directors but they don't have the it factor. I don't 
  expect 
  Scorsese to do the Hobbit. It is not his style. I don't expect Eastwood to 
  do 
  it either. I can see Ang Lee doing it. He has don different genres of film. 
  
  These directors have not. 
  
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  (http://food.aol.com/top-rated-recipes?NCID=aoltop000304) 
  
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  There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
 Country 
  
  - 
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  There is no reason Good can't triumph over Evil, if only angels will get 
 organized along the lines of the Mafia. -Kurt Vonnegut, A Man Without A 
 Country 
  
  - 
  Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. 
  
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Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Raimi Helming Hell, Then Hobbit