Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers)

[KeithBJohnson]

I have to correct myself about the origin thing, which I stated badly. There's 
never been *no* origin story of Joker, just no real, definitive one that 
everyone agrees upon. Look at characters like Superman, Luthor, Flash, even 
Batman. Though the specifics change, the core remains the same. Joker has a 
dozen origins over the years. Look at the following from Wikipedia. I have to 
say, reading these, I came away dissatisfied.  Each story reduces this force of 
(insane) nature into the mundane body of a man. As soon as I read about Red 
Hood, or some engineer who's a failed comic, I instantly start saying "That 
origin doesn't explain how he'd become *that* crazy", or, "That's lame--I coul 
have created a better story". Christopher Nolan himself said tha tJoker's the 
kind of character whose origin being detaild can ruin him. This way, we can all 
envision the Joker we want.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joker_%28comics%29 

... Origin
Though many have been related, a definitive backstory has never been 
established for the Joker in the comics, and his real name has never been 
confirmed. He has been portrayed as lying so often about his former life that 
he himself is confused as to what actually happened. As he says in The Killing 
Joke: "Sometimes I remember it one way, sometimes another... if I'm going to 
have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice!"[13] In Arkham Asylum: A 
Serious House on Serious Earth written by Grant Morrison, it is said that the 
Joker may not be insane, but has some sort of "super-sanity" in which he 
creates himself each day to cope with the chaotic flow of modern urban life.[15]
The first origin account, Detective Comics #168 (February 1951), revealed that 
the Joker had once been a criminal known as the Red Hood. In the story, he was 
a scientist looking to steal from the company that employs him and adopts the 
persona of Red Hood. After committing the theft, which Batman thwarts, Red Hood 
falls into a vat of chemical waste. He emerges with bleached white skin, red 
lips, green hair, and a permanent grin.[16][17]
The most widely cited backstory, which the official DC Comics publication, 
Who's Who in the DC Universe, credits as the most widely believed account, can 
be seen in The Killing Joke. It depicts him as originally being an engineer at 
a chemical plant who quits his job to become a stand-up comedian, only to fail 
miserably. Desperate to support his pregnant wife, Jeannie, the man agrees to 
help two criminals break into the plant where he was formerly employed. In this 
version of the story, the Red Hood persona is given to the inside man of every 
job (thus it is never the same man twice); this makes the man appear to be the 
ringleader, allowing the two criminals to escape. During the planning, police 
contact him and inform him that his wife and unborn child have died in a 
household accident.[13][14]

Stricken with grief, he attempts to back out of the plan, but the criminals 
strong-arm him into keeping his promise. As soon as they enter the plant, 
however, they are immediately caught by security and a shoot-out ensues, in 
which the two criminals are killed. As the engineer tries to escape, he is 
confronted by Batman, who is investigating the disturbance. Terrified, the 
engineer leaps over a rail and plummets into a vat of chemicals. When he 
surfaces in the nearby reservoir, he removes the hood and sees his reflection: 
bleached chalk-white skin, ruby-red lips, and bright green hair. These events, 
coupled with his other misfortunes that day, drive the engineer completely 
insane, resulting in the birth of the Joker.[13][14]
The story "Pushback" (Batman: Gotham Knights # 50-55) supports part of this 
version of the Joker's origin story. In it, a witness (who coincidentally turns 
out to be Edward Nigma, a.k.a. the Riddler) recounts that the Joker's wife was 
kidnapped and murdered by the criminals in order to force the engineer into 
performing the crime. In this version, the pre-accident Joker is called 
Jack.[18]
The Paul Dini-Alex Ross story "Case Study" proposes a far different theory. 
This story suggests that the Joker was a sadistic gangster who worked his way 
up Gotham's criminal food chain until he was the leader of a powerful mob. 
Still seeking the thrills that dirty work allowed, he created the Red Hood 
identity for himself so that he could commit small-time crimes. Eventually, he 
had his fateful first meeting with Batman, resulting in his disfigurement. 
However, the story suggests that the Joker retained his sanity, and researched 
his crimes to look like the work of a sick mind in order to pursue his vendetta 
against Batman.
The latter origin is featured in the second arc of Batman Confidential (#7-12). 
This origin once more states his name as Jack, and eliminates the Red Hood 
identity. Bored with his work, Jack becomes obsessed with Batman, and crashes a 
museum ball to attract his attention. In doing so, he badly injures Lorn

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers)

[KeithBJohnson]

I can see that, he gets this really guttural, rasping voice that's meant to be 
menacing. It's not as good as Kevin Conroy (?) who voiced Batman for the 
animated shows. But it's not a showstopper for me.
If i have any criticisms, it's that Nolan needs to hold scenes a little longer 
and use long pans more. His fights are too frenetic for me at times, with me 
literally unable to see what's going on because the camera angles are so damn 
fast and ever-changing.  I understand the idea is that a real life fight 
featuring the Bat would be quick and brutal, and that he's showing in a way 
what the criminals see: some "thing" that comes out of the shadows and takes 
people out before they even see him. But still, it' makes me dizzy. Reminds me 
too much of that penchant for overactive camera work I'm seeing more and more 
in Hollywood. They should study how Ang Lee did the fight scenes in "Crouching 
Tiger...". those were action packed and fast paced, but easy to follow, and he 
often shot the fights from a distance, so we couild take in the whole scene.

There are also some incredibly beautiful wide angle shots, pans of whole 
landscapes or cityscapes. But those too are on screen too briefly. It's like 
someone's given me the best desert in the world, and just as I take a bit, 
snatch it away.

-- Original message -- 
From: Bosco Bosco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> I've seen it twice now and I think it's really really well done. I loved it 
> enough to go twice in one week. I only have one real issue. The batvoice is 
> frequently indecipherable and silly sounding. It bugged me repeatedly. 
> 
> Bosco 
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Lockhart, Daryle wrote: 
> From: Lockhart, Daryle 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:51 PM 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> So now that I've seen everything but Watchmen (which I'm personally 
> more 
> 
> excited about than Batman), I can objectively speak on this. 
> 
> 
> 
> "The Dark Knight" was a gallon of Gatorade in the desert. It is simply not 
> 
> that great a picture. Spider-Man 2 was so much better than this movie I 
> 
> have lost count of the ways. The draw of this picture is the Joker. The 
> 
> most disappointing part of this picture was The Joker. Please hear me out. 
> 
> Heath Ledger did the dangon thing. He became the Joker. But the problem is 
> 
> that he fully became a 2 dimensional cardboard standup. I know no more 
> 
> about the Joker now than I did when Cesar Romero played him. This was just 
> 
> a better suit. Yes he was violent. But his jokes were horrible. He wasn't 
> 
> really that scary. He was just randomly crazy with no backstory. 
> 
> 
> 
> I do have to highly applaud this movie for finally ending. It may have 
> 
> ended an hour late, but it ended with a very clear period. No need for a 
> 
> third, everybody can walk away from this franchise satisfied with work 
> 
> well done. Now Christian Bale can go do other work and come back for the 
> 
> Kingdom Come movie or DK2. 
> 
> 
> 
> Daryle 
> 
> 
> 
> On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:49:42 -0400, wrote: 
> 
> 
> 
> > Thanks. I love your stuff, so that's high praise. It took me a week to 
> 
> > think about it. I'm okay with this review, but less satisfied the more I 
> 
> > read it. Think I'll rework, reduce the summary and talk more about some 
> 
> > concrete stuff. So many things in there just screamed at me: the meeting 
> 
> > between Batman, Gordon and Dent where all actors are serious and 
> 
> > bringing their "A" game, as though a man in a bat suit discussig a Joker 
> 
> > were normal...the sweeping cityscapes and the way the camera swooped 
> 
> > down amongst Gotham (I hear the iMax versin is awesome)...the amazing 
> 
> > nightime events in Hong Kong and how that was shot...the wannabe Batman 
> 
> > imitators... the music that always gets me going. 
> 
> > Yep, gotta redo this one, but thanks again for the compliment. 
> 
> > 
> 
> >  -- Original message  -- 
> 
> > From: "ravenadal" 
> 
> > Great review! I am glad you took the time to absorb and reflect 
> 
> > before you wrote it. 
> 
> > 
> 
> > ~rave! 
> 
> > 
> 
> > --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, KeithBJohnson@ ... wrote: 
> 
> >> 
> 
> >> My quick take: Like any True Believer (that's Marvel speak for a 
> 
> > real fan for the unitiated) I often get a bit annoyed at those who see 
> 
> > comics, scifi, and animation as silly stuff that's the domain of geeks 
> 
> > and nerds. People who see in superheroes nothing but the "Wham! Bang!" 
> 
> > of the 60s camp "Batman". I hate having to even discss whether comics 
> 
> > deal with "real" life. I've seen drama in a comic as powerful as that 
> 
> > in some of the better TV shows, learned as much about human nature 
> 
> > from guys whocan fly as from Shakespeare. But to dance with that 
> 
> > devil this one time, I will say it: this is a 

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers)

[KeithBJohnson]

I have to say, i don't see how you can see the series ended with a period. The 
end of this movie absolutely lends itself to a third movie. I won't spoil it 
here for those who haven't seen it, but the ending leaves Batman in a position 
that can't last, one that has to be resolved. The opportunities to deal with 
that with a good story are too rich not to be explored. The Bat and the people 
of Gotham must resolve the way things have been left.

-- Original message -- 
From: "Lockhart, Daryle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
So now that I've seen everything but Watchmen (which I'm personally more 
excited about than Batman), I can objectively speak on this.

"The Dark Knight" was a gallon of Gatorade in the desert. It is simply not 
that great a picture. Spider-Man 2 was so much better than this movie I 
have lost count of the ways. The draw of this picture is the Joker. The 
most disappointing part of this picture was The Joker. Please hear me out. 
Heath Ledger did the dangon thing. He became the Joker. But the problem is 
that he fully became a 2 dimensional cardboard standup. I know no more 
about the Joker now than I did when Cesar Romero played him. This was just 
a better suit. Yes he was violent. But his jokes were horrible. He wasn't 
really that scary. He was just randomly crazy with no backstory.

I do have to highly applaud this movie for finally ending. It may have 
ended an hour late, but it ended with a very clear period. No need for a 
third, everybody can walk away from this franchise satisfied with work 
well done. Now Christian Bale can go do other work and come back for the 
Kingdom Come movie or DK2.

Daryle

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:49:42 -0400, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks. I love your stuff, so that's high praise. It took me a week to 
> think about it. I'm okay with this review, but less satisfied the more I 
> read it. Think I'll rework, reduce the summary and talk more about some 
> concrete stuff. So many things in there just screamed at me: the meeting 
> between Batman, Gordon and Dent where all actors are serious and 
> bringing their "A" game, as though a man in a bat suit discussig a Joker 
> were normal...the sweeping cityscapes and the way the camera swooped 
> down amongst Gotham (I hear the iMax versin is awesome)...the amazing 
> nightime events in Hong Kong and how that was shot...the wannabe Batman 
> imitators... the music that always gets me going.
> Yep, gotta redo this one, but thanks again for the compliment.
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Great review! I am glad you took the time to absorb and reflect
> before you wrote it.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> My quick take: Like any True Believer (that's Marvel speak for a
> real fan for the unitiated) I often get a bit annoyed at those who see
> comics, scifi, and animation as silly stuff that's the domain of geeks
> and nerds. People who see in superheroes nothing but the "Wham! Bang!"
> of the 60s camp "Batman". I hate having to even discss whether comics
> deal with "real" life. I've seen drama in a comic as powerful as that
> in some of the better TV shows, learned as much about human nature
> from guys whocan fly as from Shakespeare. But to dance with that
> devil this one time, I will say it: this is a "real" movie, not just a
> comic book one. "The Dark Knight" is a well written, intricately
> plotted movie, full of amazing action, fine acting, stunning scenes
> and photograpy, and a penetrating look at the nature of redemption,
> worth, and madness. Oh yeah--and a guy named Joker is as crazy as
> you've heard. A must-see movie.
>>
>>
>> My full take: Wow.
>>
>> That's all I could say when the last scene of "The Dark Knight" had
> flashed across the screen, emotions spinning in my head like bright
> lights behind my eyeballs, leaving me dizzy with excitement and
> stunned at the same time.
>>
>> Building and expanding on the themes started in "Batman Begins",
> director Christopher Nolan's film will leave viewers drained but
> satisfied. From beginning to end, this is a sharp, exciting movie
>>
>> Things kicks off in high gear, as a band of masked gangsters pulls
> off a daring robbery of a mob-owned bank. Their leader is called "the
> Clown", who later reveals himself at a meeting of major crime bosses
> as the Joker (Heath Ledger, who's as good as you've heard).
>>
>> A shuffling, disheveled, medium sized man, Joker walks slightly bent
> over, as if he were hurting or deformed in some way. He's completely
> unimpressive physically, but impossible to ignore given his greasy
> greenish hair, strange clothing, and twisted frightening clown makeup,
> which only accentuates the ghastly scar that is his mouth. Joker plans
> to rule crime in Gotham. Things used to be better, he tells the
> bosses, before the Bat had them running scared. He can fix the problem
> by raining terror on t

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers)

[KeithBJohnson]

Well, I disagree, but respect your opinion.  Spider-Man 2 was good, but I 
wouldn't say it was better. For one thing, the CGI in that film kept getting on 
my nerves. I enjoyed the story of how Peter's dual life drained him, but didn't 
you find him just getting so stressed, resulting in the loss of his powers, a 
bit silly? Since when does being overwhelmed turn off the super strength, 
clinging ability, and even improved eyesight that were his genetic gifts? But I 
respected the story at its core.
By the same token, I felt the story of Bruce/Batman fearing the loss of his and 
Gotham's souls to be compelling. It resonated with me.
As for Joker, I'm surprised to hear that comment, (which others have said as 
well).  The Joker's origins have never been explained in the comics. He's just 
this person who appears to be a creature of chaos--or comedy, depending on the 
interpretation. He's real identity, past, cause for his insanity-all's been a 
mystery and I like it that way. Indeed, one of the things I disliked most about 
Tim Burton's "Batman" was the whole Jack Napier thing, giving Joker a name and 
origin. 

-- Original message -- 
From: "Lockhart, Daryle" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
So now that I've seen everything but Watchmen (which I'm personally more 
excited about than Batman), I can objectively speak on this.

"The Dark Knight" was a gallon of Gatorade in the desert. It is simply not 
that great a picture. Spider-Man 2 was so much better than this movie I 
have lost count of the ways. The draw of this picture is the Joker. The 
most disappointing part of this picture was The Joker. Please hear me out. 
Heath Ledger did the dangon thing. He became the Joker. But the problem is 
that he fully became a 2 dimensional cardboard standup. I know no more 
about the Joker now than I did when Cesar Romero played him. This was just 
a better suit. Yes he was violent. But his jokes were horrible. He wasn't 
really that scary. He was just randomly crazy with no backstory.

I do have to highly applaud this movie for finally ending. It may have 
ended an hour late, but it ended with a very clear period. No need for a 
third, everybody can walk away from this franchise satisfied with work 
well done. Now Christian Bale can go do other work and come back for the 
Kingdom Come movie or DK2.

Daryle

On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:49:42 -0400, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks. I love your stuff, so that's high praise. It took me a week to 
> think about it. I'm okay with this review, but less satisfied the more I 
> read it. Think I'll rework, reduce the summary and talk more about some 
> concrete stuff. So many things in there just screamed at me: the meeting 
> between Batman, Gordon and Dent where all actors are serious and 
> bringing their "A" game, as though a man in a bat suit discussig a Joker 
> were normal...the sweeping cityscapes and the way the camera swooped 
> down amongst Gotham (I hear the iMax versin is awesome)...the amazing 
> nightime events in Hong Kong and how that was shot...the wannabe Batman 
> imitators... the music that always gets me going.
> Yep, gotta redo this one, but thanks again for the compliment.
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Great review! I am glad you took the time to absorb and reflect
> before you wrote it.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> My quick take: Like any True Believer (that's Marvel speak for a
> real fan for the unitiated) I often get a bit annoyed at those who see
> comics, scifi, and animation as silly stuff that's the domain of geeks
> and nerds. People who see in superheroes nothing but the "Wham! Bang!"
> of the 60s camp "Batman". I hate having to even discss whether comics
> deal with "real" life. I've seen drama in a comic as powerful as that
> in some of the better TV shows, learned as much about human nature
> from guys whocan fly as from Shakespeare. But to dance with that
> devil this one time, I will say it: this is a "real" movie, not just a
> comic book one. "The Dark Knight" is a well written, intricately
> plotted movie, full of amazing action, fine acting, stunning scenes
> and photograpy, and a penetrating look at the nature of redemption,
> worth, and madness. Oh yeah--and a guy named Joker is as crazy as
> you've heard. A must-see movie.
>>
>>
>> My full take: Wow.
>>
>> That's all I could say when the last scene of "The Dark Knight" had
> flashed across the screen, emotions spinning in my head like bright
> lights behind my eyeballs, leaving me dizzy with excitement and
> stunned at the same time.
>>
>> Building and expanding on the themes started in "Batman Begins",
> director Christopher Nolan's film will leave viewers drained but
> satisfied. From beginning to end, this is a sharp, exciting movie
>>
>> Things kicks off in high gear, as a band of masked gangsters pulls
> off a daring robbery of a mob-owned bank. Their l

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers)

[Bosco Bosco]

I've seen it twice now and I think it's really really well done. I loved it 
enough to go twice in one week. I only have one real issue. The batvoice is 
frequently indecipherable and silly sounding. It bugged me repeatedly.

Bosco

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Lockhart, Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Lockhart, Daryle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 4:51 PM











So now that I've seen everything but Watchmen (which I'm personally 
more  

excited about than Batman), I can objectively speak on this.



"The Dark Knight" was a gallon of Gatorade in the desert. It is simply not  

that great a picture. Spider-Man 2 was so much better than this movie I  

have lost count of the ways. The draw of this picture is the Joker. The  

most disappointing part of this picture was The Joker. Please hear me out.  

Heath Ledger did the dangon thing. He became the Joker. But the problem is  

that he fully became a 2 dimensional cardboard standup. I know no more  

about the Joker now than I did when Cesar Romero played him. This was just  

a better suit. Yes he was violent. But his jokes were horrible. He wasn't  

really that  scary. He was just randomly crazy with no backstory.



I do have to highly applaud this movie for finally ending. It may have  

ended an hour late, but it ended with a very clear period. No need for a  

third, everybody can walk away from this franchise satisfied with work  

well done. Now Christian Bale can go do other work and come back for the  

Kingdom Come movie or DK2.



Daryle



On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:49:42 -0400,  wrote:



> Thanks. I love your stuff, so that's high praise. It took me a week to  

> think about it. I'm okay with this review, but less satisfied the more I  

> read it. Think I'll rework, reduce the summary and talk more about some  

> concrete stuff. So many things in there just screamed at me: the meeting  

> between Batman, Gordon and Dent where all actors are serious and  

> bringing their "A" game, as though a man in a bat suit discussig a Joker  

> were normal...the sweeping cityscapes and the way the camera swooped  

> down amongst Gotham (I hear the iMax versin is awesome)...the amazing  

> nightime events in Hong Kong and how that was shot...the wannabe Batman  

> imitators... the music that always gets me going.

> Yep, gotta redo this one, but thanks again for the compliment.

>

>  -- Original message  --

> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED] com>

> Great review! I am glad you took the time to absorb and reflect

> before you wrote it.

>

> ~rave!

>

> --- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, KeithBJohnson@ ... wrote:

>>

>> My quick take: Like any True Believer (that's Marvel speak for a

> real fan for the unitiated) I often get a bit annoyed at those who see

> comics, scifi, and animation as silly stuff that's the domain of geeks

> and nerds. People who see in superheroes nothing but the "Wham! Bang!"

> of the 60s camp "Batman". I hate having to even discss whether comics

> deal with "real" life. I've seen drama in a comic as powerful as that

> in some of the better TV shows, learned as much about human nature

> from guys whocan fly as from Shakespeare. But to dance with that

> devil this one time, I will say it: this is a "real" movie, not just a

> comic book one. "The Dark Knight" is a well written, intricately

> plotted movie, full of amazing action, fine acting, stunning scenes

> and photograpy, and a penetrating look at the nature of redemption,

> worth, and madness. Oh yeah--and a guy named Joker is as crazy as

> you've heard. A must-see movie.

>>

>>

>> My full take: Wow.

>>

>> That's all I could say when the last scene of "The Dark Knight" had

> flashed across the screen, emotions spinning in my head like bright

> lights behind my eyeballs, leaving me dizzy with excitement and

> stunned at the same time.

>>

>> Building and expanding on the themes started in "Batman Begins",

> director Christopher Nolan's film will leave viewers drained but

> satisfied. From beginning to end, this is a sharp, exciting movie

>>

>> Things kicks off in high gear, as a band of masked gangsters pulls

> off a daring robbery of a mob-owned bank. Their leader is called "the

> Clown", who later reveals himself at a meeting of major crime bosses

> as the Joker (Heath Ledger, who's as good as you've heard).

>>

>> A shuffling, disheveled, medium sized man, Joker walks slightly bent

> over, as if he were hurting or deformed in some way. He's completely

> unimpressive physically, but impossible to ignore given his greasy

> greenish hair, strange clothing, and twisted frightening clown makeup,

> which only accentuates the ghastly scar that is his mouth. Joker plans

> to rule crime in Gotham. Things used to be better, he tells the

> bosses, before the Bat had them running sc

[scifinoir2] Re: Italian Vogue's July 2008 "Black Issue" Goes Into Reprints

[ravenadal]

Hey Tracey,

I found this site that sells single issues of fashion magazines.  When
I sent them an e-mail I received the below response:

Yes, it is listed on the home page, top left item.  Ignore the image,
they are not updated very often.  If you order, you will receive the
black issue.

Thank you,

John Hamel

www.mymagstore.com

877-324-7323

I ordered my copy tonight.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
wrote:
>
> Why don't you call that source I gave you on Monday or call Conde
Nast on
> Monday to get the reprint.  Most Magazines will let you order
reprints by
> phone or online with a credit card
> 
> 
> -Original Message-
> From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> Behalf Of ravenadal
> Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 6:30 PM
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Italian Vogue's July 2008 "Black Issue"
Goes Into
> Reprints
> 
> I went on Ebay and some sellers are asking up to $300 for this issue!
>  The cheapest I saw was $24.  I understand Conde Nast has produced
> 100,000 more copies that they are selling at $19.99 a piece.
> 
> ~(no)rave!
> 
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "Tracey de Morsella" 
> wrote:
> >
> > This former model who was told to "stay out of the sun" so I would
> not get
> > too dark and to "keep the braids out -- you don't want to look too
> ethnic",
> > thanks you for this post.  Here are some resources you can use for
> getting
> > it.  I'm going to try to get it for my daughter, whose favorite song
> is " I
> > am not my hair" by India Aire (sp)
> > 
> > Fashionista scanned the whole thing" Jezebel 
> >
>
http://fashionista.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=6&tag=Vogue%20Italia
> > &limit=20
> > 
> > Jezebel has a nice selection of images.
> >
http://jezebel.com/5024967/italian-vogues-all-black-issue-a-guided-tour
> > 
> > 
> > Around the World Fashion publications will take phone orders
> (212)575.8543
> >  Universal News Cafe may have  
> > 
> > -Original Message-
> > From: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On
> > Behalf Of ravenadal
> > Sent: Saturday, July 26, 2008 2:23 PM
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> > Subject: [scifinoir2] Italian Vogue's July 2008 "Black Issue" Goes
Into
> > Reprints
> > 
> > (Does anybody have this issue?  I have looked all over creation and 
> > tarnation and have not been able to scare up a single issue.  Of 
> > course, I know I live in the big town of Milwaukee but jeez louise!  
> > I found the JUNE issue of Italian Vogue at a local Barnes and Noble 
> > but, I was told, they weren't sent the JULY issue.  None of the other 
> > outlets I searched carried Italian Vogue although I was able to find 
> > the July issues of French Vogue, Australian Vogue and, improbably, 
> > INDIAN Vogue!)
> > 
> > ~(no)rave!
> > 
> > http://www.glossedover.com/glossed_over/2008/07/italian-vogues.html
> > 
> > Italian Vogue's "Black Issue" Goes Into Reprints
> > 
> > As 10,000 freshly printed copies of the July edition are shipped to 
> > newsstands, Italian Vogue editor Franca Sozzani talked to Reuters 
> > about the magazine's incredibly successful "Black Issue." This quote, 
> > in particular, struck me:  
> > 
> > 
> > "America ... is ready for a black president, so why are we not ready 
> > for a black model?"
> > 
> > Aren't we ready, though? This issue is the first in Condé Nast's 
> > history to be reprinted to satisfy demand. Ad sales were up 30 
> > percent for this issue, even though many of those same advertisers 
> > stuck with white models in their ads. Photographer Steven Meisel, who 
> > shot the cover story, says, 
> > 
> > "I've asked my advertising clients so many times, `Can we use a black 
> > girl?' They say no. Advertisers say black models don't sell." 
> > 
> > Right. They don't sell advertising, which is why these same 
> > advertisers snapped up pages in this edition. They don't sell 
> > consumer goods, and it has nothing to do with the product or the ad 
> > concept. They don't sell at the newsstand, but it was Gwyneth Paltrow 
> > on the cover of the year's worst selling issue. 
> > 
> > So where does the problem really lie? Looks like America is certainly 
> > ready for more diverse models, but are magazines?
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > Yahoo! Groups Links
> >
> 
> 
> 
> 
> 
> Yahoo! Groups Links
>

Re: [scifinoir2] What you need to know about WATCHMEN

[Justin Mohareb]

I just wanted to say that my wife went to SDCC and got Gibbons to sign
my 20 year old trade of Watchmen.  He put in a little sketch of Dollar
Bill, because I figured no one would ask for a sketch of Dollar Bill.

Justin

On Mon, Jul 28, 2008 at 9:19 AM, ravenadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

-- 
Read the Bitter Guide to the Bitter Guy.
http://thebitterguy.livejournal.com

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (spoilers)

[Lockhart, Daryle]

So now that I've seen everything but Watchmen (which I'm personally more  
excited about than Batman), I can objectively speak on this.

"The Dark Knight" was a gallon of Gatorade in the desert. It is simply not  
that great a picture. Spider-Man 2 was so much better than this movie I  
have lost count of the ways. The draw of this picture is the Joker. The  
most disappointing part of this picture was The Joker. Please hear me out.  
Heath Ledger did the dangon thing. He became the Joker. But the problem is  
that he fully became a 2 dimensional cardboard standup. I know no more  
about the Joker now than I did when Cesar Romero played him. This was just  
a better suit. Yes he was violent. But his jokes were horrible. He wasn't  
really that  scary. He was just randomly crazy with no backstory.

I do have to highly applaud this movie for finally ending. It may have  
ended an hour late, but it ended with a very clear period. No need for a  
third, everybody can walk away from this franchise satisfied with work  
well done. Now Christian Bale can go do other work and come back for the  
Kingdom Come movie or DK2.

Daryle


On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 11:49:42 -0400, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Thanks. I love your stuff, so that's high praise. It took me a week to  
> think about it. I'm okay with this review, but less satisfied the more I  
> read it. Think I'll rework, reduce the summary and talk more about some  
> concrete stuff. So many things in there just screamed at me: the meeting  
> between Batman, Gordon and Dent where all actors are serious and  
> bringing their "A" game, as though a man in a bat suit discussig a Joker  
> were normal...the sweeping cityscapes and the way the camera swooped  
> down amongst Gotham (I hear the iMax versin is awesome)...the amazing  
> nightime events in Hong Kong and how that was shot...the wannabe Batman  
> imitators... the music that always gets me going.
> Yep, gotta redo this one, but thanks again for the compliment.
>
> -- Original message --
> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Great review! I am glad you took the time to absorb and reflect
> before you wrote it.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> My quick take: Like any True Believer (that's Marvel speak for a
> real fan for the unitiated) I often get a bit annoyed at those who see
> comics, scifi, and animation as silly stuff that's the domain of geeks
> and nerds. People who see in superheroes nothing but the "Wham! Bang!"
> of the 60s camp "Batman". I hate having to even discss whether comics
> deal with "real" life. I've seen drama in a comic as powerful as that
> in some of the better TV shows, learned as much about human nature
> from guys whocan fly as from Shakespeare. But to dance with that
> devil this one time, I will say it: this is a "real" movie, not just a
> comic book one. "The Dark Knight" is a well written, intricately
> plotted movie, full of amazing action, fine acting, stunning scenes
> and photograpy, and a penetrating look at the nature of redemption,
> worth, and madness. Oh yeah--and a guy named Joker is as crazy as
> you've heard. A must-see movie.
>>
>>
>> My full take: Wow.
>>
>> That's all I could say when the last scene of "The Dark Knight" had
> flashed across the screen, emotions spinning in my head like bright
> lights behind my eyeballs, leaving me dizzy with excitement and
> stunned at the same time.
>>
>> Building and expanding on the themes started in "Batman Begins",
> director Christopher Nolan's film will leave viewers drained but
> satisfied. From beginning to end, this is a sharp, exciting movie
>>
>> Things kicks off in high gear, as a band of masked gangsters pulls
> off a daring robbery of a mob-owned bank. Their leader is called "the
> Clown", who later reveals himself at a meeting of major crime bosses
> as the Joker (Heath Ledger, who's as good as you've heard).
>>
>> A shuffling, disheveled, medium sized man, Joker walks slightly bent
> over, as if he were hurting or deformed in some way. He's completely
> unimpressive physically, but impossible to ignore given his greasy
> greenish hair, strange clothing, and twisted frightening clown makeup,
> which only accentuates the ghastly scar that is his mouth. Joker plans
> to rule crime in Gotham. Things used to be better, he tells the
> bosses, before the Bat had them running scared. He can fix the problem
> by raining terror on the city and killing Batman.
>>
>> "This city needs a new class of criminal", he says at one point,
> "and I'm going to give it to them".
>>
>> All he requires in payment is—complete loyalty.
>>
>> With his lunatic appearance, wheedling, lisping voice, and tendency
> to fits of manic laughter, the Joker doesn't exactly impress the
> bosses. But after a few gruesome examples (parents take note, this is
> a violent flick) of what happens to those who cross him, they decide
> to let Joker give it a try. Soon Joker's inc

[scifinoir2] 11th Annual Black Age of Comics Convention

[ravenadal]

http://dablackage.blogspot.com/

Black Age of Comics Convention / Onli Studios 
Get ready for "BLACK AGE X!" Oct. 10th, 11th, & 12, 2008 will be the 
11th Annual Convention in the form of a group exhibition, a lecture, 
and a professional conference. The term, "The Black Age of Comics", 
refers to independent creativity in general or concepts derived from 
the Black or African experience. This, the most independent movement in 
this game, welcomes all positive creative innovators and fans.

The 11th Annual Black Age of Comics Convention will be held from 
October 10th through 12th 2008 at the University of Illinois-Chicago 
campus, at the African American Cultural Center.  The center is located 
at 830 South Halsted Street, Chicago, IL 60607. 

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: What you need to know about WATCHMEN

[Lockhart, Daryle]

I love Watchmen and really hope that it does reasonably well so that  
graphic novels of that direction get turned into movies. Oh, who am I  
kidding, I  just want an "Authority" movie and I think it will only happen  
if people go see "Watchmen".

Daryle


On Mon, 28 Jul 2008 13:11:37 -0400, ravenadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> I am a big Alan Moore fan ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta," "League of
> Extraordinary Gentlemen") but I, too, have never read his "Watchman"
> graphic novel.  I was surprised to see it was published in 1986
> (seems long ago) and that TIME magazine rated it as one of the 100
> best novels of all time.
>
> ~rave!
>
> --- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>>
>> The trailer shown before "The Dark Knight" really intrigued me.
> I've never read "Watchmen", but determined to do so after seeing it.
> Empire magazine (a really good British mag that focuses on film and
> scifi) recently did a spread on the movie. They detailed some of the
> changes to the characters from the comic to the movie.
>>
>> Whether the movie is good or not, i'm excited because it's all new
> to me. How often do I get to approach any kind of scifi/comic
> property where I know *nothing* about it? Don't know any characters'
> names, their powers or motivations, who the villains are, what time
> period or reality this series took place in--nothing.  How cool is it
> to discover something brand new after 30+ years of inhaling scifi and
> comics?!  To  a lesser extent, I found myself cautiously excited
> before seeing "Hancock", because that too was something complelety
> new to me. I was guessing and wondering and in the dark the whole
> film. Kewl!
>> -- Original message --
>> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
>> www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-watchmen-
> 0728_coverjul28,0,4606257.story
>> chicagotribune.com
>>
>> MOVIES
>>
>> What you need to know about 'Watchmen'
>>
>> By Glenn Jeffers
>>
>> Chicago Tribune reporter
>>
>> July 28, 2008
>>
>> Who watches the Watchmen?
>>
>> Soon, we will.
>>
>> At least, that's what Warner Bros. and DC Comics are counting on
> when
>> their next comic book adaptation, "Watchmen," hits theaters in
> March.
>> Many moviegoers got a sneak peek of the film before seeing " The
> Dark
>> Knight."
>>
>> Plainly defined, "Watchmen" is a 1986 graphic novel written by
> British
>> writer Alan Moore ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta") and illustrated by
>> Dave Gibbons. It is perhaps the most celebrated title in comicdom
> and
>> has been showered with accolades including a Hugo Award, science
>> fiction's highest honor. Time listed it as one of its top 100
>> English-language novels.
>>
>> "Watchmen" touched on many Reagan-era themes, including the Cold War
>> and the nuclear arms race. But, ultimately, it moved comic books
> away
>> from the kitschy, kids-only image of the '60s and '70s and proved
> the
>> genre could handle more complex, adult drama.
>>
>> Originally released as a 12-issue limited series, "Watchmen" focuses
>> on a group of retired heroes living in an alternative version of
> 1985
>> New York. When one of them, The Comedian, is murdered, the rest
>> uncover a plot that could spark a nuclear war between the United
>> States and the Soviet Union.
>>
>> Here's what you need to know to enter the "Watchmen" world.
>>
>> The Characters
>> Dr. Manhattan (a.k.a. Jon Osterman)
>>
>> Played by: Billy Crudup ("Almost Famous," "Big Fish")
>>
>> Trapped inside an intrinsic field generator during a test run,
>> scientist Jon Osterman was ripped apart by the ensuing explosion.
>> Somehow his consciousness survived, and he rebuilt himself as a
>> glowing, blue-skinned being with a dislike for pants. The only
>> super-powered hero in the Watchmen universe, Dr. Manhattan can do
> just
>> about anything, from rearranging any kind of matter to
> teleportation.
>>
>> Interesting fact: Crudup will star in the upcoming film, "Public
>> Enemies," which was filmed around the Chicago area. He'll play J.
>> Edgar Hoover, who allegedly also had issues with clothing.
>>
>> Rorschach (a.k.a. Walter Kovacs)
>>
>> Played by: Jackie Earle Haley ("Little Children")
>>
>> Wearing a black-and-white mask that resembles a Rorschach test, this
>> vigilante patrols the streets of New York. Spewing conspiracy
> theories
>> and smelling like a trash bin, Rorschach is considered more of a
>> brutal nuisance than a help. But he's the first to realize that The
>> Comedian's death is more than just a run-of-the-mill homicide.
>>
>> Interesting fact: As in the graphic novel, the inkblot pattern on
>> Rorschach's mask will change in the movie, thanks to motion-capture
>> technology and visual effects.
>>
>> The Comedian (a.k.a. Edward Blake)
>>
>> Played by: Jeffrey Dean Morgan ("P.S. I Love You")
>>
>> Amoral, misogynistic and a borderline sadist, The Comedian took
> pride
>> in doling out punishment, which he served not only to criminals, but
>> to protest

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[KeithBJohnson]

aw man, LMBAO!

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Nice try...We were talking about women, not drag queens...and no, i have yet 
> to 
> see a real woman who looks that bad off...Not even the one on WCF... 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 10:43 AM 
> 
> hey, long as that Snipes/Swayze drag-looking lady had a great brain and 
> spirit, 
> it's all good, right??! 
> 
> :) 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Aiy! How did I miss that line...I didn't know we were talking in 
> extremes...That 
> > would mess up my brain worse than seeing Wesley Snipes and Patrick Swazey 
> in 
> > "Too Wong Fu..." Here I was worrying about your response to 
> Whoopi being 
> > stacked... 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is 
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Martin wrote: 
> > 
> > From: Martin 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & 
> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 6:42 AM 
> > 
> > "Samuel Jackson in drag"...that's something that'll wake 
> you 
> > up faster than your mornign cuppa. 
> > 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote: 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & 
> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM 
> > 
> > I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to 
> a 
> > woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the 
> strongest, 
> > most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul, 
> but I 
> > also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical 
> > perspective. I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in 
> > something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag! :) 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do 
> with 
> > beauty 
> > > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth, 
> what 
> > comes 
> > > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > > 
> > > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is 
> > Johnny 
> > > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > > 
> > > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > wrote: 
> > > 
> > > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & 
> 
> > Casting 
> > > Speculation) 
> > > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > > 
> > > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most 
> people 
> > thought 
> > > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson 
> is 
> > also 
> > > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional" 
> > beauty, as 
> > > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some 
> narrow-minded 
> > people 
> > > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of 
> 
> > beauty, 
> > > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 
> 20 
> > years 
> > > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and 
> blonde 
> > hair or 
> > > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've 
> 
> > never 
> > > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as 
> > beautiful. 
> > > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many 
> actresses 
> > going 
> > > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted 
> Scarlett 
> > > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy 
> > Crawford 
> > > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and 
> the 
> > other 
> > > two would pale in comparison t 
> > > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam 
> Grier, 
> > or 
> > > Selma Hayek. 
> > > 
> > > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a 
> variety of 
> > body 
> > > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a 
> > particular 
> > > type. 
> > > 
> > > 
> > > -- Original message -- 
> > > From: Astromancer 
> > > 
> > > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right 
> after 
> > Soul 
> > > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to 
> do 
> > with 
> > > 

1217266355

[KeithBJohnson]

true dat!

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> You see, one of two things happen when you have too much time on your hands; 
> One, you put your creative skills together and you come up with wonderful and 
> strange things that will amaze or confound those you share it with...Or two, 
> you 
> write articles like that... 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Tough times bring meaner game shows 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 10:37 AM 
> 
> I find it amazing that someone could seriously see American game shows as 
> some 
> kind of test for survival in "post-apocalyptic" times! Please! I will 
> warrant that perhaps the stress of high gas and food prices, coupled with 
> lingering exhaustion over terrorism and Iraq, might make these brain-dead 
> shows 
> a good escapist route for some. It would appear a lot of younger people might 
> indulge in some of the new batch of game shows, especially during the summer 
> months when they're not in school. I also know the networks push them on 
> the public with ever-increasing fervor, since they're cheaper to mass 
> produce than those pesky scripted dramas or comedies. The suits are like 
> crack 
> dealers nowadays. So escapist fare in tough times when people are staying at 
> home more? Okay 
> But some kind of primer for survival? No way, unless our skills to survive 
> amidst nuclear waste infested lands teeming with giant cockroaches and 
> flesh-eating mutant zombies depends on being able to take a cream pie to the 
> face, or deal with Joe Rogan's annoying presence! 
> 
> 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: "ravenadal" 
> www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-reality-tv-0728jul28,0,2191741.sto
>  
> ry 
> chicagotribune.com 
> 
> Tough times bring meaner game shows 
> 
> By David Zurawik 
> 
> Tribune Newspapers 
> 
> July 28, 2008 
> 
> Summertime TV has been dabbling in game shows and contestant 
> humiliation since 2001, when NBC debuted "Fear Factor" with an 
> episode 
> featuring players lowered into a pit filled with rats. 
> 
> But this year, the networks have taken their game to a whole new level 
> with programs that show competitors getting punched in the face and 
> falling into a pit of mud as they try to climb an obstacle-course 
> wall—or players dressed like bugs getting slammed against car windshields. 
> 
> One entire series is built on the premise of contestants being forced 
> to eat rich foods like clam chowder or cream pie until they are 
> stuffed—and then put through physical paces intended to make them sick. 
> 
> While some might say yuck, millions are eating this programming up. 
> 
> ABC's "Wipeout," a Tuesday night series steeped in mud and based 
> on a 
> Japanese program, is the highest-rated new program of the summer with 
> about 10 million viewers a week. And almost half that audience is made 
> up of adults 18 to 49 years old, the demographic most attractive to 
> advertisers. 
> 
> The bug-on-the-windshield series, ABC's "I Survived a Japanese Game 
> Show," is not far behind in popularity with 8 million viewers a week, 
> and an even larger percentage of young fans in its audience. 
> 
> While analysts and producers acknowledge the appeal of mean and the 
> lure of get-rich-quick narratives in these uncertain economic times, 
> they also see the shows speaking to other deeper cultural concerns as 
> well. 
> 
> 'Tough enough?' 
> "The appeal on one level involves ridicule and laughing at the 
> other," 
> says Sheri Parks, a University of Maryland, College Park professor of 
> popular culture. "But I think some of the shows are also about 
> survival in almost an apocalyptic sense. They ask the question: Are 
> you tough enough to survive in these times?" 
> 
> Whatever the reason, their appeal is widespread enough that cable 
> channels are getting in on the nasty game-show act, as well. In July, 
> Comedy Central premiered two new entrees, including a parody of the 
> burgeoning genre that seeks to have it both ways by mocking the 
> formula and exploiting it with its own hapless contestants. 
> 
> "The Gong Show With Dave Attell" revisits the mean-spirited 1970s 
> show 
> hosted by Chuck Barris that mocked wannabe performers for their lack 
> of talent—and became the template for the tryout episodes on Fox's 
> "American Idol." 
> 
> "Reality Bites Back" follows the remake on Thursday nights with 10 
> comedians competing in parodies of such series as NBC's "American 
> Gladiators." They don't just crack wise about the hand-to-hand combat, 
> though. They engage in it, as well. 
> 
> And there are more such series on the way. One of the most intriguing, 
> "Cash or Capture," is schedule

1217265588

[ravenadal]

I have read the section below several times and I still don't 
understand its strained logic:

"However...when it was discovered that he was actually a black man, 
he was asked to cease operating as a hero and retire by President 
John F. Kennedy. The reason being, that at the time, Kennedy and his 
brother Bobby were desperately trying to push forth Civil Rights and 
they knew that if the world found out that the Blue Marvel, a being 
of incalculable power, was actually a Negro, that would set their 
Civil Rights plan back. Maybe even kill it all together. And they 
knew that if America was to move forward and evolve socially, that 
could not happen. Not wanting to upset the apple cart, and realizing 
how important this was, the Blue Marvel complied with the President's 
executive order and stands down."

Huh?


--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "It's the story of Marvel's first black superhero. He was the most
> powerful and the most popular superhero around for a period of three
> or four years back in the late 1950s early 1960s."
> 
> http://comicbookresources.com/?page=article&id=17398
> 
> CCI: The 'Return' of "The Blue Marvel"
> 
>
> Fri, July 25th, 2008 at 9:56AM PST
> 
> Updated: Fri, July 25th, 2008 at 11:06AM PST
> 
> 
> Breathing new life into an iconic character like Spider-Man or the
> Incredible Hulk is a considered a dream assignment by most working 
in
> the comic industry.
> 
> But for triple-threat Kevin Grevioux and fan favorite artist Mat
> Broome, the opportunity to develop a brand new hero for the Marvel
> Universe was the opportunity of a lifetime.
> 
> Marvel Comics announced at Comic-Con that the two would team 
on "Adam:
> Legend of the Blue Marvel," a six-issue miniseries starting in
> November based on an original concept by Grevioux, who also writes
> "New Warriors" for the publisher. The Chicago, Illinois native also
> wrote the original "Underworld" movie and has acted in dozens of 
films
> himself including the "Underworld" trilogy as the lycan, Raze.
> 
> While there is a hero named Blue Marvel in packed away in the vaults
> of the House of Ideas, this new character is completely unrelated.
> 
> Grevioux told CBR News, "The Blue Marvel is not the return of Marvel
> Boy or Crusader as he was last called, I think. This Blue Marvel is 
a
> completely different character, aspects of which have been in my 
head
> since I was a kid."
> 
> "It's the story of Marvel's first black superhero. He was the most
> powerful and the most popular superhero around for a period of three
> or four years back in the late 1950s early 1960s. Think of how
> pre-'Civil War' Captain America was lauded in the Marvel Universe or
> how Superman is hailed in Metropolis or throughout the DC Universe 
and
> that was the popular status that the Blue Marvel enjoyed during this
> time period.
> 
> "However, he wore a costume that completely covered his entire body 
so
> no one knew what he looked like underneath. But when it was 
discovered
> that he was actually a black man, he was asked to cease operating 
as a
> hero and retire by President John F. Kennedy. The reason being, that
> at the time, Kennedy and his brother Bobby were desperately trying 
to
> push forth Civil Rights and they knew that if the world found out 
that
> the Blue Marvel, a being of incalculable power, was actually a 
Negro,
> that would set their Civil Rights plan back. Maybe even kill it all
> together. And they knew that if America was to move forward and 
evolve
> socially, that could not happen.
> 
> "Not wanting to upset the apple cart, and realizing how important 
this
> was, the Blue Marvel complied with the President's executive order 
and
> stands down."
> 
> But Grevioux added when evil rears it ugly head, it's time for Blue
> Marvel to get back in the game.
> 
> "When a mysterious super-powerful villain comes back from the Blue
> Marvel's past, one not even the Avengers can stop, there is a quest 
to
> find the Blue Marvel as he is the only one who has ever defeated 
him,"
> explained Grevioux, who admitted it's a thrill seeing a character he
> envisioned as a child appearing on the printed page.
> 
> "I've had Blue Marvel in my head since I was a kid. And what kid
> fanboy doesn't dream of creating a major hero for his favorite comic
> book company," said Grevioux. "But it's the backstory that I've
> created for the character that makes him really interesting. He's a
> man caught between two worlds. On one hand he's a superhero who 
fights
> evil and injustice in all its myriad forms, but on the other hand,
> he's a black man who has to be careful about how he fights the
> injustice done to his own people."
> 
> "He's not a hero for blacks, but a hero for everyone. That presents 
a
> particular burden for him because he sees no end to the oppression 
of
> his people in sight and something needs to be done. But if he does 
it,
> as a black man, he immediately becomes an obje

1217265101

[ravenadal]

I am a big Alan Moore fan ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta," "League of 
Extraordinary Gentlemen") but I, too, have never read his "Watchman" 
graphic novel.  I was surprised to see it was published in 1986 
(seems long ago) and that TIME magazine rated it as one of the 100 
best novels of all time.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> The trailer shown before "The Dark Knight" really intrigued me. 
I've never read "Watchmen", but determined to do so after seeing it. 
Empire magazine (a really good British mag that focuses on film and 
scifi) recently did a spread on the movie. They detailed some of the 
changes to the characters from the comic to the movie.
> 
> Whether the movie is good or not, i'm excited because it's all new 
to me. How often do I get to approach any kind of scifi/comic 
property where I know *nothing* about it? Don't know any characters' 
names, their powers or motivations, who the villains are, what time 
period or reality this series took place in--nothing.  How cool is it 
to discover something brand new after 30+ years of inhaling scifi and 
comics?!  To  a lesser extent, I found myself cautiously excited 
before seeing "Hancock", because that too was something complelety 
new to me. I was guessing and wondering and in the dark the whole 
film. Kewl!
> -- Original message -- 
> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-watchmen-
0728_coverjul28,0,4606257.story
> chicagotribune.com
> 
> MOVIES
> 
> What you need to know about 'Watchmen'
> 
> By Glenn Jeffers
> 
> Chicago Tribune reporter
> 
> July 28, 2008
> 
> Who watches the Watchmen?
> 
> Soon, we will.
> 
> At least, that's what Warner Bros. and DC Comics are counting on 
when
> their next comic book adaptation, "Watchmen," hits theaters in 
March.
> Many moviegoers got a sneak peek of the film before seeing " The 
Dark
> Knight."
> 
> Plainly defined, "Watchmen" is a 1986 graphic novel written by 
British
> writer Alan Moore ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta") and illustrated by
> Dave Gibbons. It is perhaps the most celebrated title in comicdom 
and
> has been showered with accolades including a Hugo Award, science
> fiction's highest honor. Time listed it as one of its top 100
> English-language novels.
> 
> "Watchmen" touched on many Reagan-era themes, including the Cold War
> and the nuclear arms race. But, ultimately, it moved comic books 
away
> from the kitschy, kids-only image of the '60s and '70s and proved 
the
> genre could handle more complex, adult drama.
> 
> Originally released as a 12-issue limited series, "Watchmen" focuses
> on a group of retired heroes living in an alternative version of 
1985
> New York. When one of them, The Comedian, is murdered, the rest
> uncover a plot that could spark a nuclear war between the United
> States and the Soviet Union.
> 
> Here's what you need to know to enter the "Watchmen" world.
> 
> The Characters
> Dr. Manhattan (a.k.a. Jon Osterman)
> 
> Played by: Billy Crudup ("Almost Famous," "Big Fish")
> 
> Trapped inside an intrinsic field generator during a test run,
> scientist Jon Osterman was ripped apart by the ensuing explosion.
> Somehow his consciousness survived, and he rebuilt himself as a
> glowing, blue-skinned being with a dislike for pants. The only
> super-powered hero in the Watchmen universe, Dr. Manhattan can do 
just
> about anything, from rearranging any kind of matter to 
teleportation.
> 
> Interesting fact: Crudup will star in the upcoming film, "Public
> Enemies," which was filmed around the Chicago area. He'll play J.
> Edgar Hoover, who allegedly also had issues with clothing.
> 
> Rorschach (a.k.a. Walter Kovacs)
> 
> Played by: Jackie Earle Haley ("Little Children")
> 
> Wearing a black-and-white mask that resembles a Rorschach test, this
> vigilante patrols the streets of New York. Spewing conspiracy 
theories
> and smelling like a trash bin, Rorschach is considered more of a
> brutal nuisance than a help. But he's the first to realize that The
> Comedian's death is more than just a run-of-the-mill homicide.
> 
> Interesting fact: As in the graphic novel, the inkblot pattern on
> Rorschach's mask will change in the movie, thanks to motion-capture
> technology and visual effects.
> 
> The Comedian (a.k.a. Edward Blake)
> 
> Played by: Jeffrey Dean Morgan ("P.S. I Love You")
> 
> Amoral, misogynistic and a borderline sadist, The Comedian took 
pride
> in doling out punishment, which he served not only to criminals, but
> to protesters, women and some of his colleagues. It was all part of
> his little joke with the world. You know, the one about the heroes
> being as bad as the villains.
> 
> Interesting fact: Morgan has made a career of playing characters who
> don't last through the third act, including transplant patient Denny
> Duquette on " Grey's Anatomy," demon-fighter John Winchester on
> "Supernatural," and Nancy Botwin's husband Judah on " Weeds

[scifinoir2] Re: What you need to know about WATCHMEN

[ravenadal]

I am a big Alan Moore fan ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta," "League of 
Extraordinary Gentlemen") but I, too, have never read his "Watchman" 
graphic novel.  I was surprised to see it was published in 1986 
(seems long ago) and that TIME magazine rated it as one of the 100 
best novels of all time.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> The trailer shown before "The Dark Knight" really intrigued me. 
I've never read "Watchmen", but determined to do so after seeing it. 
Empire magazine (a really good British mag that focuses on film and 
scifi) recently did a spread on the movie. They detailed some of the 
changes to the characters from the comic to the movie.
> 
> Whether the movie is good or not, i'm excited because it's all new 
to me. How often do I get to approach any kind of scifi/comic 
property where I know *nothing* about it? Don't know any characters' 
names, their powers or motivations, who the villains are, what time 
period or reality this series took place in--nothing.  How cool is it 
to discover something brand new after 30+ years of inhaling scifi and 
comics?!  To  a lesser extent, I found myself cautiously excited 
before seeing "Hancock", because that too was something complelety 
new to me. I was guessing and wondering and in the dark the whole 
film. Kewl!
> -- Original message -- 
> From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-watchmen-
0728_coverjul28,0,4606257.story
> chicagotribune.com
> 
> MOVIES
> 
> What you need to know about 'Watchmen'
> 
> By Glenn Jeffers
> 
> Chicago Tribune reporter
> 
> July 28, 2008
> 
> Who watches the Watchmen?
> 
> Soon, we will.
> 
> At least, that's what Warner Bros. and DC Comics are counting on 
when
> their next comic book adaptation, "Watchmen," hits theaters in 
March.
> Many moviegoers got a sneak peek of the film before seeing " The 
Dark
> Knight."
> 
> Plainly defined, "Watchmen" is a 1986 graphic novel written by 
British
> writer Alan Moore ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta") and illustrated by
> Dave Gibbons. It is perhaps the most celebrated title in comicdom 
and
> has been showered with accolades including a Hugo Award, science
> fiction's highest honor. Time listed it as one of its top 100
> English-language novels.
> 
> "Watchmen" touched on many Reagan-era themes, including the Cold War
> and the nuclear arms race. But, ultimately, it moved comic books 
away
> from the kitschy, kids-only image of the '60s and '70s and proved 
the
> genre could handle more complex, adult drama.
> 
> Originally released as a 12-issue limited series, "Watchmen" focuses
> on a group of retired heroes living in an alternative version of 
1985
> New York. When one of them, The Comedian, is murdered, the rest
> uncover a plot that could spark a nuclear war between the United
> States and the Soviet Union.
> 
> Here's what you need to know to enter the "Watchmen" world.
> 
> The Characters
> Dr. Manhattan (a.k.a. Jon Osterman)
> 
> Played by: Billy Crudup ("Almost Famous," "Big Fish")
> 
> Trapped inside an intrinsic field generator during a test run,
> scientist Jon Osterman was ripped apart by the ensuing explosion.
> Somehow his consciousness survived, and he rebuilt himself as a
> glowing, blue-skinned being with a dislike for pants. The only
> super-powered hero in the Watchmen universe, Dr. Manhattan can do 
just
> about anything, from rearranging any kind of matter to 
teleportation.
> 
> Interesting fact: Crudup will star in the upcoming film, "Public
> Enemies," which was filmed around the Chicago area. He'll play J.
> Edgar Hoover, who allegedly also had issues with clothing.
> 
> Rorschach (a.k.a. Walter Kovacs)
> 
> Played by: Jackie Earle Haley ("Little Children")
> 
> Wearing a black-and-white mask that resembles a Rorschach test, this
> vigilante patrols the streets of New York. Spewing conspiracy 
theories
> and smelling like a trash bin, Rorschach is considered more of a
> brutal nuisance than a help. But he's the first to realize that The
> Comedian's death is more than just a run-of-the-mill homicide.
> 
> Interesting fact: As in the graphic novel, the inkblot pattern on
> Rorschach's mask will change in the movie, thanks to motion-capture
> technology and visual effects.
> 
> The Comedian (a.k.a. Edward Blake)
> 
> Played by: Jeffrey Dean Morgan ("P.S. I Love You")
> 
> Amoral, misogynistic and a borderline sadist, The Comedian took 
pride
> in doling out punishment, which he served not only to criminals, but
> to protesters, women and some of his colleagues. It was all part of
> his little joke with the world. You know, the one about the heroes
> being as bad as the villains.
> 
> Interesting fact: Morgan has made a career of playing characters who
> don't last through the third act, including transplant patient Denny
> Duquette on " Grey's Anatomy," demon-fighter John Winchester on
> "Supernatural," and Nancy Botwin's husband Judah on " Weeds

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[Astromancer]

Nice try...We were talking about women, not drag queens...and no, i have yet to 
see a real woman who looks that bad off...Not even the one on WCF...

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 10:43 AM

hey, long as that Snipes/Swayze drag-looking lady had a great brain and spirit,
it's all good, right??!

:)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Aiy! How did I miss that line...I didn't know we were talking in
extremes...That 
> would mess up my brain worse than seeing Wesley Snipes and Patrick Swazey
in 
> "Too Wong Fu..." Here I was worrying about your response to
Whoopi being 
> stacked... 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Martin wrote: 
> 
> From: Martin 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 6:42 AM 
> 
> "Samuel Jackson in drag"...that's something that'll wake
you 
> up faster than your mornign cuppa. 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM 
> 
> I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to
a 
> woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the
strongest, 
> most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul,
but I 
> also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical 
> perspective. I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in 
> something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag! :) 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do
with 
> beauty 
> > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth,
what 
> comes 
> > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is 
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &

> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most
people 
> thought 
> > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson
is 
> also 
> > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional" 
> beauty, as 
> > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some
narrow-minded 
> people 
> > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of

> beauty, 
> > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for
20 
> years 
> > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and
blonde 
> hair or 
> > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've

> never 
> > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as 
> beautiful. 
> > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many
actresses 
> going 
> > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted
Scarlett 
> > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy 
> Crawford 
> > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and
the 
> other 
> > two would pale in comparison t 
> > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam
Grier, 
> or 
> > Selma Hayek. 
> > 
> > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a
variety of 
> body 
> > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a 
> particular 
> > type. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right
after 
> Soul 
> > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to
do 
> with 
> > attributes of 
> > > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in
Pauley 
> > Perrette's 
> > > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on
Half 
> and 
> > > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is
also 
> the 
> > type of 
> > > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or
how 
> you 
> > dress 
> > > her (as in R

Re: [scifinoir2] Tough times bring meaner game shows

[Astromancer]

You see, one of two things happen when you have too much time on your hands; 
One, you put your creative skills together and you come up with wonderful and 
strange things that will amaze or confound those you share it with...Or two, 
you write articles like that...

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Tough times bring meaner game shows
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 10:37 AM

I find it amazing that someone could seriously see American game shows as some
kind of test for survival in "post-apocalyptic" times! Please! I will
warrant that perhaps the stress of high gas and food prices, coupled with
lingering exhaustion over terrorism and Iraq, might make these brain-dead shows
a good escapist route for some. It would appear a lot of younger people might
indulge in some of the new batch of game shows, especially during the summer
months when they're not in school. I also know the networks push them on
the public with ever-increasing fervor, since they're cheaper to mass
produce than those pesky scripted dramas or comedies. The suits are like crack
dealers nowadays. So escapist fare in tough times when people are staying at
home more? Okay
But some kind of primer for survival? No way, unless our skills to survive
amidst nuclear waste infested lands teeming with giant cockroaches and
flesh-eating mutant zombies depends on being able to take a cream pie to the
face, or deal with Joe Rogan's annoying presence!



-- Original message -- 
From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-reality-tv-0728jul28,0,2191741.story
chicagotribune.com

Tough times bring meaner game shows

By David Zurawik

Tribune Newspapers

July 28, 2008

Summertime TV has been dabbling in game shows and contestant
humiliation since 2001, when NBC debuted "Fear Factor" with an
episode
featuring players lowered into a pit filled with rats.

But this year, the networks have taken their game to a whole new level
with programs that show competitors getting punched in the face and
falling into a pit of mud as they try to climb an obstacle-course
wall—or players dressed like bugs getting slammed against car windshields.

One entire series is built on the premise of contestants being forced
to eat rich foods like clam chowder or cream pie until they are
stuffed—and then put through physical paces intended to make them sick.

While some might say yuck, millions are eating this programming up.

ABC's "Wipeout," a Tuesday night series steeped in mud and based
on a
Japanese program, is the highest-rated new program of the summer with
about 10 million viewers a week. And almost half that audience is made
up of adults 18 to 49 years old, the demographic most attractive to
advertisers.

The bug-on-the-windshield series, ABC's "I Survived a Japanese Game
Show," is not far behind in popularity with 8 million viewers a week,
and an even larger percentage of young fans in its audience.

While analysts and producers acknowledge the appeal of mean and the
lure of get-rich-quick narratives in these uncertain economic times,
they also see the shows speaking to other deeper cultural concerns as
well.

'Tough enough?'
"The appeal on one level involves ridicule and laughing at the
other,"
says Sheri Parks, a University of Maryland, College Park professor of
popular culture. "But I think some of the shows are also about
survival in almost an apocalyptic sense. They ask the question: Are
you tough enough to survive in these times?"

Whatever the reason, their appeal is widespread enough that cable
channels are getting in on the nasty game-show act, as well. In July,
Comedy Central premiered two new entrees, including a parody of the
burgeoning genre that seeks to have it both ways by mocking the
formula and exploiting it with its own hapless contestants.

"The Gong Show With Dave Attell" revisits the mean-spirited 1970s
show
hosted by Chuck Barris that mocked wannabe performers for their lack
of talent—and became the template for the tryout episodes on Fox's
"American Idol."

"Reality Bites Back" follows the remake on Thursday nights with 10
comedians competing in parodies of such series as NBC's "American
Gladiators." They don't just crack wise about the hand-to-hand combat,
though. They engage in it, as well.

And there are more such series on the way. One of the most intriguing,
"Cash or Capture," is scheduled to debut in November on the red-hot
Sci Fi channel. Like "Wipeout," it is based on a Japanese
series—this
one featuring a group of contestants competing for cash prizes while
being stalked by a group of hunters.

Mark Stern, executive vice president of original programming at Sci
Fi, thinks his series will connect with viewer interests on a v

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[Astromancer]

I just wanted to mention that Jeri Ryan, though an obvious beauty, stole my 
heart when I realized she actually had talent! In spite of the lousy scripts, 
the lady showed us some skills...

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 10:17 AM

i hear you and completely agree.  Dax on DS9 really attracted me. Terry Ferrel
is pretty, but there have been women on Trek over the years with more obvious
physical assests (Seven of Nine, Troi, and Uhura for example). It was
Jadzia's humour, love of life, and intelligence that really drew me in.
Same for Kira, who has a luminous smile--when she used it! :)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> I kow, Keith. I'm finding as I grow older, I imagine what the woman
I'm staring 
> at is like intellectually...Probably because I no longer have a mate.
Maybe I am 
> unconsciously filling a need for what I am missing...I am not dismissing 
> physical atttraction, Keith, I just tend to crave more than the
superficial... 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 10:36 PM 
> 
> I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to
a 
> woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the
strongest, 
> most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul,
but I 
> also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical 
> perspective. I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in 
> something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag! :) 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do
with 
> beauty 
> > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth,
what 
> comes 
> > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is 
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &

> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most
people 
> thought 
> > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson
is 
> also 
> > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional" 
> beauty, as 
> > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some
narrow-minded 
> people 
> > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of

> beauty, 
> > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for
20 
> years 
> > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and
blonde 
> hair or 
> > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've

> never 
> > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as 
> beautiful. 
> > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many
actresses 
> going 
> > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted
Scarlett 
> > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy 
> Crawford 
> > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and
the 
> other 
> > two would pale in comparison t 
> > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam
Grier, 
> or 
> > Selma Hayek. 
> > 
> > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a
variety of 
> body 
> > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a 
> particular 
> > type. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right
after 
> Soul 
> > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to
do 
> with 
> > attributes of 
> > > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in
Pauley 
> > Perrette's 
> > > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on
Half 
> and 
> > > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is
also 
> the 
> > type of 
> > > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or
how 
> you 
> > dress 
> > > her (as in Roxann Dawson &

1217260187

[KeithBJohnson]

Thanks. I love your stuff, so that's high praise. It took me a week to think 
about it. I'm okay with this review, but less satisfied the more I read it. 
Think I'll rework, reduce the summary and talk more about some concrete stuff. 
So many things in there just screamed at me: the meeting between Batman, Gordon 
and Dent where all actors are serious and bringing their "A" game, as though a 
man in a bat suit discussig a Joker were normal...the sweeping cityscapes and 
the way the camera swooped down amongst Gotham (I hear the iMax versin is 
awesome)...the amazing nightime events in Hong Kong and how that was shot...the 
wannabe Batman imitators... the music that always gets me going.
Yep, gotta redo this one, but thanks again for the compliment.

-- Original message -- 
From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
Great review! I am glad you took the time to absorb and reflect
before you wrote it.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> My quick take: Like any True Believer (that's Marvel speak for a
real fan for the unitiated) I often get a bit annoyed at those who see
comics, scifi, and animation as silly stuff that's the domain of geeks
and nerds. People who see in superheroes nothing but the "Wham! Bang!"
of the 60s camp "Batman". I hate having to even discss whether comics
deal with "real" life. I've seen drama in a comic as powerful as that
in some of the better TV shows, learned as much about human nature
from guys whocan fly as from Shakespeare. But to dance with that
devil this one time, I will say it: this is a "real" movie, not just a
comic book one. "The Dark Knight" is a well written, intricately
plotted movie, full of amazing action, fine acting, stunning scenes
and photograpy, and a penetrating look at the nature of redemption,
worth, and madness. Oh yeah--and a guy named Joker is as crazy as
you've heard. A must-see movie.
> 
> 
> My full take: Wow.
> 
> That's all I could say when the last scene of "The Dark Knight" had
flashed across the screen, emotions spinning in my head like bright
lights behind my eyeballs, leaving me dizzy with excitement and
stunned at the same time. 
> 
> Building and expanding on the themes started in "Batman Begins",
director Christopher Nolan's film will leave viewers drained but
satisfied. From beginning to end, this is a sharp, exciting movie 
> 
> Things kicks off in high gear, as a band of masked gangsters pulls
off a daring robbery of a mob-owned bank. Their leader is called "the
Clown", who later reveals himself at a meeting of major crime bosses
as the Joker (Heath Ledger, who's as good as you've heard). 
> 
> A shuffling, disheveled, medium sized man, Joker walks slightly bent
over, as if he were hurting or deformed in some way. He's completely
unimpressive physically, but impossible to ignore given his greasy
greenish hair, strange clothing, and twisted frightening clown makeup,
which only accentuates the ghastly scar that is his mouth. Joker plans
to rule crime in Gotham. Things used to be better, he tells the
bosses, before the Bat had them running scared. He can fix the problem
by raining terror on the city and killing Batman.
> 
> "This city needs a new class of criminal", he says at one point,
"and I'm going to give it to them".
> 
> All he requires in payment is—complete loyalty.
> 
> With his lunatic appearance, wheedling, lisping voice, and tendency
to fits of manic laughter, the Joker doesn't exactly impress the
bosses. But after a few gruesome examples (parents take note, this is
a violent flick) of what happens to those who cross him, they decide
to let Joker give it a try. Soon Joker's increasingly brazen and
shocking crimes have Gotham reeling with fear.
> 
> Set against the chaos is Bruce Wayne/Batman (Christian Bale), who's
still trying to prove that Gotham is a city that won't give in to the
darkness of fear and corruption. Bruce fervently wants his alter ego
to be a symbol of hope, a dark angel to bring fear to criminals, but
inspiration to the people. Burdened, beaten, mentally and spiritually
exhausted from countless battles, Bruce dreams of one day giving up
the mantle of the Bat, if he can find others to take his place.
Perhaps he can even finally have a real life with a skeptical Rachel
Dawes (Maggie Gyllenhaal, an improvement over previous actress Katie
Holmes). 
> 
> Giving Bruce hope is District Attorney Harvey Dent (Aaron Eckhart),
a brave, extremely popular man whose exploits have earned him the
nickname "White Knight". Slowly Batman and Dent come to trust each
other, and along with Lieutenant Jim Gordon, the three men set out to
win the battle for Gotham's soul. What follows is a drama with plots
within plots, twists and tricks galore, successes and devastating
failures, with Batman and his allies met at every turn by the mad
cleverness of the Joker. 
> 
> As the stakes and body count grow ever higher, Bruce comes to
realize that Joker has no real plan other than to fomen

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[KeithBJohnson]

hey, long as that Snipes/Swayze drag-looking lady had a great brain and spirit, 
it's all good, right??!

:)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Aiy! How did I miss that line...I didn't know we were talking in 
> extremes...That 
> would mess up my brain worse than seeing Wesley Snipes and Patrick Swazey in 
> "Too Wong Fu..." Here I was worrying about your response to Whoopi being 
> stacked... 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Mon, 7/28/08, Martin wrote: 
> 
> From: Martin 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 6:42 AM 
> 
> "Samuel Jackson in drag"...that's something that'll wake you 
> up faster than your mornign cuppa. 
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM 
> 
> I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a 
> woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the strongest, 
> most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul, but I 
> also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical 
> perspective. I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in 
> something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag! :) 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do with 
> beauty 
> > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth, what 
> comes 
> > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is 
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & 
> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people 
> thought 
> > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson is 
> also 
> > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional" 
> beauty, as 
> > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded 
> people 
> > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of 
> beauty, 
> > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20 
> years 
> > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and blonde 
> hair or 
> > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've 
> never 
> > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as 
> beautiful. 
> > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many actresses 
> going 
> > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted Scarlett 
> > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy 
> Crawford 
> > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the 
> other 
> > two would pale in comparison t 
> > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam Grier, 
> or 
> > Selma Hayek. 
> > 
> > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a variety of 
> body 
> > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a 
> particular 
> > type. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after 
> Soul 
> > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do 
> with 
> > attributes of 
> > > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in Pauley 
> > Perrette's 
> > > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half 
> and 
> > > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also 
> the 
> > type of 
> > > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how 
> you 
> > dress 
> > > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates}) 
> I 
> > guess I find 
> > > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as in I 
> 
> > can't 
> > > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi 
> Goldberg 
> > was (and 
> > > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a 
> nutshell 
> > though it is a 
> > > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and 
> cultural 
> > > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last comment 
> on 
> > this 
> > > subject; 

Re: [scifinoir2] Tough times bring meaner game shows

[KeithBJohnson]

I find it amazing that someone could seriously see American game shows as some 
kind of test for survival in "post-apocalyptic" times! Please! I will warrant 
that perhaps the stress of high gas and food prices, coupled with lingering 
exhaustion over terrorism and Iraq, might make these brain-dead shows a good 
escapist route for some. It would appear a lot of younger people might indulge 
in some of the new batch of game shows, especially during the summer months 
when they're not in school. I also know the networks push them on the public 
with ever-increasing fervor, since they're cheaper to mass produce than those 
pesky scripted dramas or comedies. The suits are like crack dealers nowadays. 
So escapist fare in tough times when people are staying at home more? Okay
But some kind of primer for survival? No way, unless our skills to survive 
amidst nuclear waste infested lands teeming with giant cockroaches and 
flesh-eating mutant zombies depends on being able to take a cream pie to the 
face, or deal with Joe Rogan's annoying presence!



-- Original message -- 
From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-reality-tv-0728jul28,0,2191741.story
chicagotribune.com

Tough times bring meaner game shows

By David Zurawik

Tribune Newspapers

July 28, 2008

Summertime TV has been dabbling in game shows and contestant
humiliation since 2001, when NBC debuted "Fear Factor" with an episode
featuring players lowered into a pit filled with rats.

But this year, the networks have taken their game to a whole new level
with programs that show competitors getting punched in the face and
falling into a pit of mud as they try to climb an obstacle-course
wall—or players dressed like bugs getting slammed against car windshields.

One entire series is built on the premise of contestants being forced
to eat rich foods like clam chowder or cream pie until they are
stuffed—and then put through physical paces intended to make them sick.

While some might say yuck, millions are eating this programming up.

ABC's "Wipeout," a Tuesday night series steeped in mud and based on a
Japanese program, is the highest-rated new program of the summer with
about 10 million viewers a week. And almost half that audience is made
up of adults 18 to 49 years old, the demographic most attractive to
advertisers.

The bug-on-the-windshield series, ABC's "I Survived a Japanese Game
Show," is not far behind in popularity with 8 million viewers a week,
and an even larger percentage of young fans in its audience.

While analysts and producers acknowledge the appeal of mean and the
lure of get-rich-quick narratives in these uncertain economic times,
they also see the shows speaking to other deeper cultural concerns as
well.

'Tough enough?'
"The appeal on one level involves ridicule and laughing at the other,"
says Sheri Parks, a University of Maryland, College Park professor of
popular culture. "But I think some of the shows are also about
survival in almost an apocalyptic sense. They ask the question: Are
you tough enough to survive in these times?"

Whatever the reason, their appeal is widespread enough that cable
channels are getting in on the nasty game-show act, as well. In July,
Comedy Central premiered two new entrees, including a parody of the
burgeoning genre that seeks to have it both ways by mocking the
formula and exploiting it with its own hapless contestants.

"The Gong Show With Dave Attell" revisits the mean-spirited 1970s show
hosted by Chuck Barris that mocked wannabe performers for their lack
of talent—and became the template for the tryout episodes on Fox's
"American Idol."

"Reality Bites Back" follows the remake on Thursday nights with 10
comedians competing in parodies of such series as NBC's "American
Gladiators." They don't just crack wise about the hand-to-hand combat,
though. They engage in it, as well.

And there are more such series on the way. One of the most intriguing,
"Cash or Capture," is scheduled to debut in November on the red-hot
Sci Fi channel. Like "Wipeout," it is based on a Japanese series—this
one featuring a group of contestants competing for cash prizes while
being stalked by a group of hunters.

Mark Stern, executive vice president of original programming at Sci
Fi, thinks his series will connect with viewer interests on a variety
of levels.

Escapism a big appeal
"Winning the cash windfall is obviously a big part of the wish
fulfillment of any of these game shows or reality shows—especially
during times when things are tougher for people economically," Stern
says. "But I think the bigger appeal when times are tough is escapism.
People really want to be taken out of their lives and transported to
other places. They want to escape, to go someplace else and not be in
their lives—and I think that is part of the appeal of the
larger-than-life reality shows."

"Cash or Capture" is intended to look and feel like a video game,
according to Stern, an

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[Astromancer]

Amongst others

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, ravenadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: ravenadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [scifinoir2] Re: Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 8:17 AM






I am so glad I changed the subject line of this thread. Nothing
better than seeing "Rosario is so..." over and over and over and over!

~rave!

--- In [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com, Martin  wrote:
>
> "Samuel Jackson in drag"...that' s something that'll wake you up
faster than your mornign cuppa.
> 
> http://www.youtube. com/watch? v=fQUxw9aUVik
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, KeithBJohnson@ ...  wrote:
> From: KeithBJohnson@ ... 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting Speculation)
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM
> 
> I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a
> woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the
strongest,
> most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul,
but I
> also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical
> perspective. I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in
> something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag! :)
> 
>  -- Original message  -- 
> From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED] > 
> 
> > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to
do with
> beauty 
> > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth,
what
> comes 
> > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, KeithBJohnson@ ... 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > From: KeithBJohnson@ ... 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people
> thought 
> > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny
Johnson is
> also 
> > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional"
> beauty, as 
> > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded
> people 
> > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of
> beauty, 
> > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20
> years 
> > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and
blonde
> hair or 
> > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've
> never 
> > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as
> beautiful. 
> > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many
actresses
> going 
> > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted
Scarlett 
> > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy
> Crawford 
> > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the
> other 
> > two would pale in comparison t 
> > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam
Grier,
> or 
> > Selma Hayek. 
> > 
> > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a
variety of
> body 
> > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a
> particular 
> > type. 
> > 
> > 
> >  -- Original message  -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after
> Soul 
> > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do
> with 
> > attributes of 
> > > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in
Pauley 
> > Perrette's 
> > > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half
> and 
> > > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also
> the 
> > type of 
> > > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how
> you 
> > dress 
> > > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates})
> I 
> > guess I find 
> > > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as
in I
> 
> > can't 
> > > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi
> Goldberg 
> > was (and 
> > > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a
> nutshell 
> > though it is a 
> > > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and
> cultural 
> > > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last
comment
> on 
> > this 
> > > subject; If you look deeply and 
> > > open-mindedly at any woman, you will see something beautiful in
every
> one. 
> > It 
> > > is a gift given to all females that I think was designed by
Nature to
> be 
> > noticed 
> > > by the 'right man' for 

1217258997

[KeithBJohnson]

The trailer shown before "The Dark Knight" really intrigued me. I've never read 
"Watchmen", but determined to do so after seeing it. Empire magazine (a really 
good British mag that focuses on film and scifi) recently did a spread on the 
movie. They detailed some of the changes to the characters from the comic to 
the movie.

Whether the movie is good or not, i'm excited because it's all new to me. How 
often do I get to approach any kind of scifi/comic property where I know 
*nothing* about it? Don't know any characters' names, their powers or 
motivations, who the villains are, what time period or reality this series took 
place in--nothing.  How cool is it to discover something brand new after 30+ 
years of inhaling scifi and comics?!  To  a lesser extent, I found myself 
cautiously excited before seeing "Hancock", because that too was something 
complelety new to me. I was guessing and wondering and in the dark the whole 
film. Kewl!
-- Original message -- 
From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-watchmen-0728_coverjul28,0,4606257.story
chicagotribune.com

MOVIES

What you need to know about 'Watchmen'

By Glenn Jeffers

Chicago Tribune reporter

July 28, 2008

Who watches the Watchmen?

Soon, we will.

At least, that's what Warner Bros. and DC Comics are counting on when
their next comic book adaptation, "Watchmen," hits theaters in March.
Many moviegoers got a sneak peek of the film before seeing " The Dark
Knight."

Plainly defined, "Watchmen" is a 1986 graphic novel written by British
writer Alan Moore ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta") and illustrated by
Dave Gibbons. It is perhaps the most celebrated title in comicdom and
has been showered with accolades including a Hugo Award, science
fiction's highest honor. Time listed it as one of its top 100
English-language novels.

"Watchmen" touched on many Reagan-era themes, including the Cold War
and the nuclear arms race. But, ultimately, it moved comic books away
from the kitschy, kids-only image of the '60s and '70s and proved the
genre could handle more complex, adult drama.

Originally released as a 12-issue limited series, "Watchmen" focuses
on a group of retired heroes living in an alternative version of 1985
New York. When one of them, The Comedian, is murdered, the rest
uncover a plot that could spark a nuclear war between the United
States and the Soviet Union.

Here's what you need to know to enter the "Watchmen" world.

The Characters
Dr. Manhattan (a.k.a. Jon Osterman)

Played by: Billy Crudup ("Almost Famous," "Big Fish")

Trapped inside an intrinsic field generator during a test run,
scientist Jon Osterman was ripped apart by the ensuing explosion.
Somehow his consciousness survived, and he rebuilt himself as a
glowing, blue-skinned being with a dislike for pants. The only
super-powered hero in the Watchmen universe, Dr. Manhattan can do just
about anything, from rearranging any kind of matter to teleportation.

Interesting fact: Crudup will star in the upcoming film, "Public
Enemies," which was filmed around the Chicago area. He'll play J.
Edgar Hoover, who allegedly also had issues with clothing.

Rorschach (a.k.a. Walter Kovacs)

Played by: Jackie Earle Haley ("Little Children")

Wearing a black-and-white mask that resembles a Rorschach test, this
vigilante patrols the streets of New York. Spewing conspiracy theories
and smelling like a trash bin, Rorschach is considered more of a
brutal nuisance than a help. But he's the first to realize that The
Comedian's death is more than just a run-of-the-mill homicide.

Interesting fact: As in the graphic novel, the inkblot pattern on
Rorschach's mask will change in the movie, thanks to motion-capture
technology and visual effects.

The Comedian (a.k.a. Edward Blake)

Played by: Jeffrey Dean Morgan ("P.S. I Love You")

Amoral, misogynistic and a borderline sadist, The Comedian took pride
in doling out punishment, which he served not only to criminals, but
to protesters, women and some of his colleagues. It was all part of
his little joke with the world. You know, the one about the heroes
being as bad as the villains.

Interesting fact: Morgan has made a career of playing characters who
don't last through the third act, including transplant patient Denny
Duquette on " Grey's Anatomy," demon-fighter John Winchester on
"Supernatural," and Nancy Botwin's husband Judah on " Weeds."

Nite Owl I & II (a.k.a. Hollis Mason and Dan Dreiberg)

Played by: Stephen McHattie ("A History of Violence") and Patrick
Wilson ("Little Children," "The Alamo")

The first man to wear the Nite Owl mantle was Hollis Mason, a police
officer who led the "Minuteman," a team of costumed heroes in the
1940s. After a successful career of crime-fighting, Mason retired and
wrote an autobiography called "Under The Hood." Soon, Dan Dreiberg, an
aeronautics engineer and lifelong Nite Owl fan, contacted Mason and
asked to carry on the name.

Interesting fact: In the 

Re: [scifinoir2] Re: Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[KeithBJohnson]

funny!

-- Original message -- 
From: "ravenadal" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
I am so glad I changed the subject line of this thread. Nothing
better than seeing "Rosario is so..." over and over and over and over!

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Samuel Jackson in drag"...that's something that'll wake you up
faster than your mornign cuppa.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting Speculation)
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM
> 
> I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a
> woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the
strongest,
> most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul,
but I
> also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical
> perspective. I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in
> something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag! :)
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to
do with
> beauty 
> > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth,
what
> comes 
> > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people
> thought 
> > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny
Johnson is
> also 
> > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional"
> beauty, as 
> > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded
> people 
> > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of
> beauty, 
> > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20
> years 
> > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and
blonde
> hair or 
> > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've
> never 
> > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as
> beautiful. 
> > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many
actresses
> going 
> > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted
Scarlett 
> > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy
> Crawford 
> > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the
> other 
> > two would pale in comparison t 
> > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam
Grier,
> or 
> > Selma Hayek. 
> > 
> > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a
variety of
> body 
> > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a
> particular 
> > type. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after
> Soul 
> > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do
> with 
> > attributes of 
> > > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in
Pauley 
> > Perrette's 
> > > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half
> and 
> > > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also
> the 
> > type of 
> > > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how
> you 
> > dress 
> > > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates})
> I 
> > guess I find 
> > > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as
in I
> 
> > can't 
> > > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi
> Goldberg 
> > was (and 
> > > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a
> nutshell 
> > though it is a 
> > > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and
> cultural 
> > > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last
comment
> on 
> > this 
> > > subject; If you look deeply and 
> > > open-mindedly at any woman, you will see something beautiful in
every
> one. 
> > It 
> > > is a gift given to all females that I think was designed by
Nature to
> be 
> > noticed 
> > > by the 'right man' for them...Told you you shouldn't make
> me 
> > think on a 
> > > Saturday...after Soul Train... 
> > > 
> > > "See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? 
> > That's 
> > > Johnny Ross." From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > > 
> > > -

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[KeithBJohnson]

i hear you and completely agree.  Dax on DS9 really attracted me. Terry Ferrel 
is pretty, but there have been women on Trek over the years with more obvious 
physical assests (Seven of Nine, Troi, and Uhura for example). It was Jadzia's 
humour, love of life, and intelligence that really drew me in. Same for Kira, 
who has a luminous smile--when she used it! :)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> I kow, Keith. I'm finding as I grow older, I imagine what the woman I'm 
> staring 
> at is like intellectually...Probably because I no longer have a mate. Maybe I 
> am 
> unconsciously filling a need for what I am missing...I am not dismissing 
> physical atttraction, Keith, I just tend to crave more than the 
> superficial... 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 10:36 PM 
> 
> I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a 
> woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the strongest, 
> most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul, but I 
> also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical 
> perspective. I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in 
> something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag! :) 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do with 
> beauty 
> > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth, what 
> comes 
> > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is 
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & 
> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people 
> thought 
> > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson is 
> also 
> > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional" 
> beauty, as 
> > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded 
> people 
> > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of 
> beauty, 
> > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20 
> years 
> > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and blonde 
> hair or 
> > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've 
> never 
> > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as 
> beautiful. 
> > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many actresses 
> going 
> > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted Scarlett 
> > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy 
> Crawford 
> > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the 
> other 
> > two would pale in comparison t 
> > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam Grier, 
> or 
> > Selma Hayek. 
> > 
> > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a variety of 
> body 
> > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a 
> particular 
> > type. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after 
> Soul 
> > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do 
> with 
> > attributes of 
> > > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in Pauley 
> > Perrette's 
> > > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half 
> and 
> > > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also 
> the 
> > type of 
> > > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how 
> you 
> > dress 
> > > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates}) 
> I 
> > guess I find 
> > > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as in I 
> 
> > can't 
> > > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi 
> Goldberg 
> > was (and 
> > > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a 
> nutshell 
> > though it is a 
> > > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and 
> cultural 
> > > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last comment 
> on 
> > this 
> > > subject; If you look deeply and 
> > > open-mindedly a

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[Astromancer]

Aiy! How did I miss that line...I didn't know we were talking in 
extremes...That would mess up my brain worse than seeing Wesley Snipes and 
Patrick Swazey in "Too Wong Fu..." Here I was worrying about your response to 
Whoopi being stacked...

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 6:42 AM

"Samuel Jackson in drag"...that's something that'll wake you
up faster than your mornign cuppa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

--- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM

I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a
woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the strongest,
most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul, but I
also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical
perspective.  I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in
something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag!  :)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do with
beauty 
> when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth, what
comes 
> out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> 
> Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people
thought 
> the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson is
also 
> gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional"
beauty, as 
> if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded
people 
> decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of
beauty, 
> then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20
years 
> or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and blonde
hair or 
> light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've
never 
> gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as
beautiful. 
> Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many actresses
going 
> thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted Scarlett 
> Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy
Crawford 
> voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the
other 
> two would pale in comparison t 
> o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam Grier,
or 
> Selma Hayek. 
> 
> As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a variety of
body 
> types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a
particular 
> type. 
> 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after
Soul 
> > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do
with 
> attributes of 
> > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in Pauley 
> Perrette's 
> > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half
and 
> > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also
the 
> type of 
> > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how
you 
> dress 
> > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates})
I 
> guess I find 
> > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as in I

> can't 
> > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi
Goldberg 
> was (and 
> > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a
nutshell 
> though it is a 
> > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and
cultural 
> > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last comment
on 
> this 
> > subject; If you look deeply and 
> > open-mindedly at any woman, you will see something beautiful in every
one. 
> It 
> > is a gift given to all females that I think was designed by Nature to
be 
> noticed 
> > by the 'right man' for them...Told you you shouldn't make
me 
> think on a 
> > Saturday...after Soul Train... 
> > 
> > "See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? 
> That's 
> > Johnny Ross." 

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[Astromancer]

They will...I former mother-in law's favorite line still rings true everyt time 
she says it: "Keep Livin'..."

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny 
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 6:29 AM

And, IMO, there's *nothing* wrong with that outlook. If only a few of our
young men were to adopt that viewpoint...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 1:31 AM

I kow, Keith. I'm finding as I grow older, I imagine what the woman I'm
staring at is like intellectually...Probably because I no longer have a mate.
Maybe I am unconsciously filling a need for what I am missing...I am not
dismissing physical atttraction, Keith, I just tend to crave more than the
superficial...

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 10:36 PM

I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a
woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the strongest,
most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul, but I
also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical
perspective.  I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in
something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag!  :)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do with
beauty 
> when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth, what
comes 
> out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> 
> Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people
thought 
> the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson is
also 
> gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional"
beauty, as 
> if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded
people 
> decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of
beauty, 
> then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20
years 
> or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and blonde
hair or 
> light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've
never 
> gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as
beautiful. 
> Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many actresses
going 
> thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted Scarlett 
> Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy
Crawford 
> voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the
other 
> two would pale in comparison t 
> o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam Grier,
or 
> Selma Hayek. 
> 
> As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a variety of
body 
> types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a
particular 
> type. 
> 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after
Soul 
> > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do
with 
> attributes of 
> > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in Pauley 
> Perrette's 
> > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half
and 
> > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also
the 
> type of 
> > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how
you 
> dress 
> > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates})
I 
> guess I find 
> > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as in I

> can't 
> > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi
Goldberg 
> was (and 
> > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a
nutshell 
> though it is a 
> > very

Re: [scifinoir2] Tough times bring meaner game shows

[Martin]

To quote Morris Day, "Time to just walk and shake my head..."

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, ravenadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: ravenadal <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: [scifinoir2] Tough times bring meaner game shows
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 9:29 AM











www.chicagotribune. com/features/ lifestyle/ chi-reality- 
tv-0728jul28, 0,2191741. story

chicagotribune. com



Tough times bring meaner game shows



By David Zurawik



Tribune Newspapers



July 28, 2008



Summertime TV has been dabbling in game shows and contestant

humiliation since 2001, when NBC debuted "Fear Factor" with an episode

featuring players lowered into a pit filled with rats.



But this year, the networks have taken their game to a whole new level

with programs that show competitors getting punched in the face and

falling into a pit of mud as they try to climb an obstacle-course

wall—or players dressed like bugs getting slammed against car windshields.



One entire series is built on the premise of contestants being forced

to eat rich foods like clam chowder or cream pie until they are

stuffed—and then put through physical paces intended to make them sick.



While some might say yuck, millions are eating this programming up.



ABC's "Wipeout," a Tuesday night series steeped in mud and based on a

Japanese program, is the highest-rated new program of the summer with

about 10 million viewers a week. And almost half that audience is made

up of adults 18 to 49 years old, the demographic most attractive to

advertisers.



The bug-on-the-windshie ld series, ABC's "I Survived a Japanese Game

Show," is not far behind in popularity with 8 million viewers a week,

and an even larger percentage of young fans in its audience.



While analysts and producers acknowledge the appeal of mean and the

lure of get-rich-quick narratives in these uncertain economic times,

they also see the shows speaking to other deeper cultural concerns as

well.



'Tough enough?'

"The appeal on one level involves ridicule and laughing at the other,"

says Sheri Parks, a University of Maryland, College Park professor of

popular culture. "But I think some of the shows are also about

survival in almost an apocalyptic sense. They ask the question: Are

you tough enough to survive in these times?"



Whatever the reason, their appeal is widespread enough that cable

channels are getting in on the nasty game-show act, as well. In July,

Comedy Central premiered two new entrees, including a parody of the

burgeoning genre that seeks to have it both ways by mocking the

formula and exploiting it with its own hapless contestants.



"The Gong Show With Dave Attell" revisits the mean-spirited 1970s show

hosted by Chuck Barris that mocked wannabe performers for their lack

of talent—and became the template for the tryout episodes on Fox's

"American Idol."



"Reality Bites Back" follows the remake on Thursday nights with 10

comedians competing in parodies of such series as NBC's "American

Gladiators." They don't just crack wise about the hand-to-hand combat,

though. They engage in it, as well.



And there are more such series on the way. One of the most intriguing,

"Cash or Capture," is scheduled to debut in November on the red-hot

Sci Fi channel. Like "Wipeout," it is based on a Japanese series—this

one featuring a group of contestants competing for cash prizes while

being stalked by a group of hunters.



Mark Stern, executive vice president of original programming at Sci

Fi, thinks his series will connect with viewer interests on a variety

of levels.



Escapism a big appeal

"Winning the cash windfall is obviously a big part of the wish

fulfillment of any of these game shows or reality shows—especially

during times when things are tougher for people economically, " Stern

says. "But I think the bigger appeal when times are tough is escapism.

People really want to be taken out of their lives and transported to

other places. They want to escape, to go someplace else and not be in

their lives—and I think that is part of the appeal of the

larger-than- life reality shows."



"Cash or Capture" is intended to look and feel like a video game,

according to Stern, and that virtual realm is where he and the

producers want to take their target audience of young viewers who grew

up with and continue to play video games.



Shirley Peroutka, professor of popular culture at Goucher College in

Baltimore, sees a definite connection between the TV game shows that

feature contestant humiliation and video games in which characters are

abused on screen.



"It is not in the least surprising that what teenagers are playing at

on their computers screens now becomes a successful new form of TV

programming, " she says. "The combat, the meanness, the one-upmanship,

the laughing at others' misfortune of these shows are all there in the

video games."



Analys

[scifinoir2] Tough times bring meaner game shows

[ravenadal]

www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-reality-tv-0728jul28,0,2191741.story
chicagotribune.com

Tough times bring meaner game shows

By David Zurawik

Tribune Newspapers

July 28, 2008

Summertime TV has been dabbling in game shows and contestant
humiliation since 2001, when NBC debuted "Fear Factor" with an episode
featuring players lowered into a pit filled with rats.

But this year, the networks have taken their game to a whole new level
with programs that show competitors getting punched in the face and
falling into a pit of mud as they try to climb an obstacle-course
wall—or players dressed like bugs getting slammed against car windshields.

One entire series is built on the premise of contestants being forced
to eat rich foods like clam chowder or cream pie until they are
stuffed—and then put through physical paces intended to make them sick.

While some might say yuck, millions are eating this programming up.

ABC's "Wipeout," a Tuesday night series steeped in mud and based on a
Japanese program, is the highest-rated new program of the summer with
about 10 million viewers a week. And almost half that audience is made
up of adults 18 to 49 years old, the demographic most attractive to
advertisers.

The bug-on-the-windshield series, ABC's "I Survived a Japanese Game
Show," is not far behind in popularity with 8 million viewers a week,
and an even larger percentage of young fans in its audience.

While analysts and producers acknowledge the appeal of mean and the
lure of get-rich-quick narratives in these uncertain economic times,
they also see the shows speaking to other deeper cultural concerns as
well.

'Tough enough?'
"The appeal on one level involves ridicule and laughing at the other,"
says Sheri Parks, a University of Maryland, College Park professor of
popular culture. "But I think some of the shows are also about
survival in almost an apocalyptic sense. They ask the question: Are
you tough enough to survive in these times?"

Whatever the reason, their appeal is widespread enough that cable
channels are getting in on the nasty game-show act, as well. In July,
Comedy Central premiered two new entrees, including a parody of the
burgeoning genre that seeks to have it both ways by mocking the
formula and exploiting it with its own hapless contestants.

"The Gong Show With Dave Attell" revisits the mean-spirited 1970s show
hosted by Chuck Barris that mocked wannabe performers for their lack
of talent—and became the template for the tryout episodes on Fox's
"American Idol."

"Reality Bites Back" follows the remake on Thursday nights with 10
comedians competing in parodies of such series as NBC's "American
Gladiators." They don't just crack wise about the hand-to-hand combat,
though. They engage in it, as well.

And there are more such series on the way. One of the most intriguing,
"Cash or Capture," is scheduled to debut in November on the red-hot
Sci Fi channel. Like "Wipeout," it is based on a Japanese series—this
one featuring a group of contestants competing for cash prizes while
being stalked by a group of hunters.

Mark Stern, executive vice president of original programming at Sci
Fi, thinks his series will connect with viewer interests on a variety
of levels.

Escapism a big appeal
"Winning the cash windfall is obviously a big part of the wish
fulfillment of any of these game shows or reality shows—especially
during times when things are tougher for people economically," Stern
says. "But I think the bigger appeal when times are tough is escapism.
People really want to be taken out of their lives and transported to
other places. They want to escape, to go someplace else and not be in
their lives—and I think that is part of the appeal of the
larger-than-life reality shows."

"Cash or Capture" is intended to look and feel like a video game,
according to Stern, and that virtual realm is where he and the
producers want to take their target audience of young viewers who grew
up with and continue to play video games.

Shirley Peroutka, professor of popular culture at Goucher College in
Baltimore, sees a definite connection between the TV game shows that
feature contestant humiliation and video games in which characters are
abused on screen.

"It is not in the least surprising that what teenagers are playing at
on their computers screens now becomes a successful new form of TV
programming," she says. "The combat, the meanness, the one-upmanship,
the laughing at others' misfortune of these shows are all there in the
video games."

Analysts say the trend will continue—if for global economic reasons,
if nothing else. Such shows are cheap to make, and they travel
incredibly well.

Ridicule is universal
As the University of Maryland's Parks puts it, "Ridicule translates
across cultures." Endemol, the company the produces "Wipeout" for ABC,
has opened an office in Turkey where it is now producing a local
version of the game show for that audience.

And countries such as Japan and Britain offer what 

[scifinoir2] What you need to know about WATCHMEN

[ravenadal]

www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-watchmen-0728_coverjul28,0,4606257.story
chicagotribune.com

MOVIES

What you need to know about 'Watchmen'

By Glenn Jeffers

Chicago Tribune reporter

July 28, 2008

Who watches the Watchmen?

Soon, we will.

At least, that's what Warner Bros. and DC Comics are counting on when
their next comic book adaptation, "Watchmen," hits theaters in March.
Many moviegoers got a sneak peek of the film before seeing " The Dark
Knight."

Plainly defined, "Watchmen" is a 1986 graphic novel written by British
writer Alan Moore ("From Hell," "V for Vendetta") and illustrated by
Dave Gibbons. It is perhaps the most celebrated title in comicdom and
has been showered with accolades including a Hugo Award, science
fiction's highest honor. Time listed it as one of its top 100
English-language novels.

"Watchmen" touched on many Reagan-era themes, including the Cold War
and the nuclear arms race. But, ultimately, it moved comic books away
from the kitschy, kids-only image of the '60s and '70s and proved the
genre could handle more complex, adult drama.

Originally released as a 12-issue limited series, "Watchmen" focuses
on a group of retired heroes living in an alternative version of 1985
New York. When one of them, The Comedian, is murdered, the rest
uncover a plot that could spark a nuclear war between the United
States and the Soviet Union.

Here's what you need to know to enter the "Watchmen" world.

The Characters
Dr. Manhattan (a.k.a. Jon Osterman)

Played by: Billy Crudup ("Almost Famous," "Big Fish")

Trapped inside an intrinsic field generator during a test run,
scientist Jon Osterman was ripped apart by the ensuing explosion.
Somehow his consciousness survived, and he rebuilt himself as a
glowing, blue-skinned being with a dislike for pants. The only
super-powered hero in the Watchmen universe, Dr. Manhattan can do just
about anything, from rearranging any kind of matter to teleportation.

Interesting fact: Crudup will star in the upcoming film, "Public
Enemies," which was filmed around the Chicago area. He'll play J.
Edgar Hoover, who allegedly also had issues with clothing.

Rorschach (a.k.a. Walter Kovacs)

Played by: Jackie Earle Haley ("Little Children")

Wearing a black-and-white mask that resembles a Rorschach test, this
vigilante patrols the streets of New York. Spewing conspiracy theories
and smelling like a trash bin, Rorschach is considered more of a
brutal nuisance than a help. But he's the first to realize that The
Comedian's death is more than just a run-of-the-mill homicide.

Interesting fact: As in the graphic novel, the inkblot pattern on
Rorschach's mask will change in the movie, thanks to motion-capture
technology and visual effects.

The Comedian (a.k.a. Edward Blake)

Played by: Jeffrey Dean Morgan ("P.S. I Love You")

Amoral, misogynistic and a borderline sadist, The Comedian took pride
in doling out punishment, which he served not only to criminals, but
to protesters, women and some of his colleagues. It was all part of
his little joke with the world. You know, the one about the heroes
being as bad as the villains.

Interesting fact: Morgan has made a career of playing characters who
don't last through the third act, including transplant patient Denny
Duquette on " Grey's Anatomy," demon-fighter John Winchester on
"Supernatural," and Nancy Botwin's husband Judah on " Weeds."

Nite Owl I & II (a.k.a. Hollis Mason and Dan Dreiberg)

Played by: Stephen McHattie ("A History of Violence") and Patrick
Wilson ("Little Children," "The Alamo")

The first man to wear the Nite Owl mantle was Hollis Mason, a police
officer who led the "Minuteman," a team of costumed heroes in the
1940s. After a successful career of crime-fighting, Mason retired and
wrote an autobiography called "Under The Hood." Soon, Dan Dreiberg, an
aeronautics engineer and lifelong Nite Owl fan, contacted Mason and
asked to carry on the name.

Interesting fact: In the book, Mason and Dreiberg meet up every
Saturday night to drink beer, listen to jazz albums and swap
crime-fighting stories.

Ozymandias (a.k.a. Adrian Veidt)

Played by: Matthew Goode ("The Lookout," "Stealing Liberty")

After spending years busting up crime syndicates, the self-proclaimed
"smartest man in the world" hung up the tights, made his identity
public and started a company that sold self-help books, diet drinks
and Ozymandias action figures.

Interesting fact: "Watchmen" director Zack Snyder drastically altered
Ozymandias' costume for the movie, replacing the character's tunic and
gold unitard with one that parodies the outfits in Joel Schumaker's
much-maligned " Batman & Robin."

Silk Spectre I & II (a.k.a. Sally Jupiter and Laurel Jane "Laurie"
Juspeczyk)

Played by: Carla Gugino ("Sin City," "Spy Kids") and Malin Akerman
("The Comeback")

For the first Silk Spectre, becoming a hero was about money and fame,
both of which quickly followed her debut in 1939. But after a vicious
assault and the death of teammate Dol

1217251073

[ravenadal]

I am so glad I changed the subject line of this thread.  Nothing
better than seeing "Rosario is so..." over and over and over and over!

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, Martin <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> "Samuel Jackson in drag"...that's something that'll wake you up
faster than your mornign cuppa.
> 
> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting Speculation)
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM
> 
> I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a
> woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the
strongest,
> most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul,
but I
> also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical
> perspective.  I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in
> something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag!  :)
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 
> 
> > Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to
do with
> beauty 
> > when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth,
what
> comes 
> > out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> > 
> > -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
> Johnny 
> > Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote: 
> > 
> > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> > 
> > Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people
> thought 
> > the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny
Johnson is
> also 
> > gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional"
> beauty, as 
> > if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded
> people 
> > decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of
> beauty, 
> > then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20
> years 
> > or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and
blonde
> hair or 
> > light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've
> never 
> > gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as
> beautiful. 
> > Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many
actresses
> going 
> > thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted
Scarlett 
> > Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy
> Crawford 
> > voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the
> other 
> > two would pale in comparison t 
> > o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam
Grier,
> or 
> > Selma Hayek. 
> > 
> > As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a
variety of
> body 
> > types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a
> particular 
> > type. 
> > 
> > 
> > -- Original message -- 
> > From: Astromancer 
> > 
> > > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after
> Soul 
> > > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do
> with 
> > attributes of 
> > > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in
Pauley 
> > Perrette's 
> > > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half
> and 
> > > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also
> the 
> > type of 
> > > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how
> you 
> > dress 
> > > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates})
> I 
> > guess I find 
> > > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as
in I
> 
> > can't 
> > > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi
> Goldberg 
> > was (and 
> > > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a
> nutshell 
> > though it is a 
> > > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and
> cultural 
> > > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last
comment
> on 
> > this 
> > > subject; If you look deeply and 
> > > open-mindedly at any woman, you will see something beautiful in
every
> one. 
> > It 
> > > is a gift given to all females that I think was designed by
Nature to
> be 
> > noticed 
> > > by the 'right man' for them...Told you you shouldn't make
> me 
> > think on a 
> > > Saturday...after Soul Train... 
> > > 
> > > "See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? 
> > That's 
> > > Johnny Ross." From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > > 
> > > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Martin wrote: 
> > > 
> > > From: Martin 
> > > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2

[scifinoir2] Re: My Take - "The Dark Knight" (No spoilers)

[ravenadal]

Great review!  I am glad you took the time to absorb and reflect
before you wrote it.

~rave!

--- In scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
>
> My quick take:  Like any True Believer (that's Marvel speak for a
real fan for the unitiated) I often get a bit annoyed at those who see
comics, scifi, and animation as silly stuff that's the domain of geeks
and nerds. People who see in superheroes nothing but the "Wham! Bang!"
of the 60s camp "Batman". I hate having to even discss whether comics
deal with "real" life. I've seen drama in a comic as powerful as that
in some of the better TV shows, learned as much about human nature
from guys whocan fly as from Shakespeare.  But to dance with that
devil this one time, I will say it: this is a "real" movie, not just a
comic book one. "The Dark Knight" is a well written, intricately
plotted movie,  full of amazing action, fine acting, stunning scenes
and photograpy, and a penetrating look at the nature of redemption,
worth, and madness. Oh yeah--and a guy named Joker is as crazy as
you've heard. A must-see movie.
> 
> 
> My full take: Wow.
>  
> That's all I could say when the last scene of "The Dark Knight" had
flashed across the screen, emotions spinning in my head like bright
lights behind my eyeballs, leaving me dizzy with excitement and
stunned at the same time.  
>  
> Building and expanding on the themes started in "Batman Begins",
director Christopher Nolan's film will leave viewers drained but
satisfied. From beginning to end, this is a sharp, exciting movie  
>  
> Things kicks off in high gear, as a band of masked gangsters pulls
off a daring robbery of a mob-owned bank.  Their leader is called "the
Clown", who later reveals himself at a meeting of major crime bosses
as the Joker (Heath Ledger, who's as good as you've heard). 
>  
> A shuffling, disheveled, medium sized man, Joker walks slightly bent
over, as if he were hurting or deformed in some way. He's completely
unimpressive physically, but impossible to ignore given his greasy
greenish hair, strange clothing, and twisted frightening clown makeup,
which only accentuates the ghastly scar that is his mouth. Joker plans
to rule crime in Gotham.  Things used to be better, he tells the
bosses, before the Bat had them running scared. He can fix the problem
by raining terror on the city and killing Batman.
>  
> "This city needs a new class of criminal", he says at one point,
"and I'm going to give it to them".
>  
> All he requires in payment is—complete loyalty.
>  
> With his lunatic appearance, wheedling, lisping voice, and tendency
to fits of manic laughter, the Joker doesn't exactly impress the
bosses. But after a few gruesome examples (parents take note, this is
a violent flick) of what happens to those who cross him, they decide
to let Joker give it a try. Soon Joker's increasingly brazen and
shocking crimes have Gotham reeling with fear.
>  
> Set against the chaos is Bruce Wayne/Batman (Christian Bale), who's
still trying to prove that Gotham is a city that won't give in to the
darkness of fear and corruption. Bruce fervently wants his alter ego
to be a symbol of hope, a dark angel to bring fear to criminals, but
inspiration to the people. Burdened, beaten, mentally and spiritually
exhausted from countless battles, Bruce dreams of one day giving up
the mantle of the Bat, if he can find others to take his place.
Perhaps he can even finally have a real life with a skeptical Rachel
Dawes (Maggie Gyllenhaal, an improvement over previous actress Katie
Holmes).  
>  
> Giving Bruce hope is District Attorney Harvey Dent (Aaron Eckhart),
a brave, extremely popular man whose exploits have earned him the
nickname "White Knight". Slowly Batman and Dent come to trust each
other, and along with Lieutenant Jim Gordon, the three men set out to
win the battle for Gotham's soul. What follows is a drama with plots
within plots, twists and tricks galore, successes and devastating
failures, with Batman and his allies met at every turn by the mad
cleverness of the Joker. 
>  
> As the stakes and body count grow ever higher, Bruce comes to
realize that Joker has no real plan other than to foment chaos. Is
there a way to counter such madness rationally?
> 
> "I now see the lengths to which I must go to stop such men", Bruce
laments to Alfred at one point. Alfred replies that there are some men
who can't be beaten, just put down. 
>  
> "Some men just want to watch the world burn", he warns.
>  
> "I'm like a dog chasing a car", Joker himself gleefully relates at
one point, "I have no idea what I'd do once I catch it."
>  
> In time, no one in Gotham--no citizen, hero, or even criminal--is
untouched by the sweeping battle that engulfs the entire city. 
>  
> Christopher Nolan gets that comic book movies can be as "real" as
other movies. His take on Batman is grounded in reality. He eschews
much of the fantastical, the improbable science fiction aspects of
superheroes, and gets down to the basics of telling a

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[Martin]

"Samuel Jackson in drag"...that's something that'll wake you up faster than 
your mornign cuppa.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

--- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 11:36 PM

I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a
woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the strongest,
most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul, but I
also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical
perspective.  I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in
something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag!  :)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do with
beauty 
> when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth, what
comes 
> out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> 
> Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people
thought 
> the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson is
also 
> gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional"
beauty, as 
> if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded
people 
> decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of
beauty, 
> then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20
years 
> or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and blonde
hair or 
> light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've
never 
> gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as
beautiful. 
> Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many actresses
going 
> thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted Scarlett 
> Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy
Crawford 
> voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the
other 
> two would pale in comparison t 
> o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam Grier,
or 
> Selma Hayek. 
> 
> As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a variety of
body 
> types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a
particular 
> type. 
> 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after
Soul 
> > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do
with 
> attributes of 
> > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in Pauley 
> Perrette's 
> > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half
and 
> > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also
the 
> type of 
> > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how
you 
> dress 
> > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates})
I 
> guess I find 
> > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as in I

> can't 
> > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi
Goldberg 
> was (and 
> > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a
nutshell 
> though it is a 
> > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and
cultural 
> > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last comment
on 
> this 
> > subject; If you look deeply and 
> > open-mindedly at any woman, you will see something beautiful in every
one. 
> It 
> > is a gift given to all females that I think was designed by Nature to
be 
> noticed 
> > by the 'right man' for them...Told you you shouldn't make
me 
> think on a 
> > Saturday...after Soul Train... 
> > 
> > "See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? 
> That's 
> > Johnny Ross." From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> > 
> > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Martin wrote: 
> > 
> > From: Martin 
> > Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &

> Casting 
> > Speculation) 
> > To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> > Date: Saturday, July 26, 2008, 6:56 AM 
> > 
> > We need names, pal. Not to make you justify our ground, mind you.
It's 
> a 
> > slow Saturday, and my imagination could use a romp or three... ;-) 
> > 
> > "My father said, 'When in doubt, castle."- Kurt 
> > Vonnegut 
> > 
> > 
> > 
> > http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik 
> > 
> > --- On Sat, 7/26/08, Ast

Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting Speculation)

[Martin]

And, IMO, there's *nothing* wrong with that outlook. If only a few of our young 
men were to adopt that viewpoint...

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fQUxw9aUVik

--- On Mon, 7/28/08, Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting 
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Monday, July 28, 2008, 1:31 AM

I kow, Keith. I'm finding as I grow older, I imagine what the woman I'm
staring at is like intellectually...Probably because I no longer have a mate.
Maybe I am unconsciously filling a need for what I am missing...I am not
dismissing physical atttraction, Keith, I just tend to crave more than the
superficial...

-See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is Johnny
Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie

--- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains & Casting
Speculation)
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 10:36 PM

I agree, but there's nothing wrong with being physically attracted to a
woman, as well as to her mind and spirit. I mean, my wife is the strongest,
most compassionate, wisest person I know. I'm attracted to her soul, but I
also think she's the most beautiful woman in the world from physical
perspective.  I mean, it's nice that the inner package is wrapped in
something that looks better than, say, Samuel Jackson in drag!  :)

-- Original message -- 
From: Astromancer <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> 

> Whoa...One more time...the superficial stuff aint got a thing to do with
beauty 
> when it comes to me...mainly because once a woman opens her mouth, what
comes 
> out decides whether she'll hold my attention after.. 
> 
> -See that guy who looks like a cross between Elvis and P-Funk? He is
Johnny 
> Ross.- From THE SIDE STREET CHRONICLES by C.W. Badie 
> 
> --- On Sun, 7/27/08, [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> wrote: 
> 
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> Subject: Re: [scifinoir2] Rosario is so...(was: Batman Villains &
Casting 
> Speculation) 
> To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com 
> Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008, 2:30 AM 
> 
> Rachel True is gorgeous! It always struck me as funny that most people
thought 
> the actress playing her sister was the hot one. Not so! Penny Johnson is
also 
> gorgeous. I don't think she's an "unconventional"
beauty, as 
> if she doesn't fit some standard. I rather think some narrow-minded
people 
> decide the likes of Berry, Jolie, Paltrow, etc., are some standard of
beauty, 
> then make anyone else seem to be "other". For example, for 20
years 
> or so, the standard of beauty in the US has been thin bodies and blonde
hair or 
> light skin (the so-called "cheerleader" look) that I've
never 
> gotten.Heather Locklear and the likes of Paris Hilton are touted as
beautiful. 
> Even Black women have fallen into this trap at times, with many actresses
going 
> thin to fit in. I read a magazine article recently that hinted Scarlett 
> Johansen was borderline heavy and called Claude Schiffer and Cindy
Crawford 
> voluptuous! Where and when I come from, Scarlett is just fine, and the
other 
> two would pale in comparison t 
> o true voluptuousness like that to be found with Racque Welch, Pam Grier,
or 
> Selma Hayek. 
> 
> As you state below, beauty has a wide range that encompasses a variety of
body 
> types, colors, faces, and attitudes, and I never narrow it down to a
particular 
> type. 
> 
> 
> -- Original message -- 
> From: Astromancer 
> 
> > Aw, man...Why do you wanna make me think on a Saturday...right after
Soul 
> > Train?? Okay, I can't give you names because I has more to do
with 
> attributes of 
> > personality; like like cleverly disguised intelligence, as in Pauley 
> Perrette's 
> > Abby Sciuto on NCIS; or the quirky Rachel True (older sister on Half
and 
> > Half..or the the only sistah in the movie The Craft). There is also
the 
> type of 
> > woman who is undeniably feminine no matter where you put her or how
you 
> dress 
> > her (as in Roxann Dawson & Penny Johnson Jerald [Kassidy yates})
I 
> guess I find 
> > beauty in the unusual of the sometimes socially unacceptable, as in I

> can't 
> > figure out how no one noticed how 'stacked the young Whoopi
Goldberg 
> was (and 
> > pretty, when she wasn't making faces...) That's it in a
nutshell 
> though it is a 
> > very long list of women I find attractive beyond the social and
cultural 
> > definitions with quickly become cliche` to me...Okay, my last comment
on 
> this 
> > subject; If you look deeply and 
> > open-mindedly at any woman, you will see something beautiful in every
one. 
> It 
> > is a gift given to all females that I think was designed by Nature to
be 
> noticed 
> > by the 'right man' for them...Told you you shouldn't make
me 
> think on a 
> > Saturday...after Soul Train... 
> >

[scifinoir2] "Scrabble" more than a game to Africans

[oberonz]

For some Africans, Scrabble more than just a game

To compete in the Francophone World Scrabble Championship, 32-year-old Elisee 
Poka spent five days in a bus traversing Africa's potholed roads. His 
competitors from France arrived by plane.
To prepare for the game, he carried a diary in his satchel, spending every 
spare moment committing words to memory. His French competitors used computers 
to spit out anagrams, the game's key building block.
But in spite of all their advantages, France lost to an African player for the 
third year in a row this week in the one-on-one duel at the Francophone World 
Scrabble Championship.
"We have far less means than the French players," says Poka, who as a child in 
Ivory Coast made his own Scrabble set out of wood because he couldn't afford a 
store-bought one. "But we keep on beating them."
There is more than a little irony in the string of wins given that French is 
the language of West Africa's colonizers. With literacy rates as low as 30 
percent in Guinea and 40 percent in Senegal, many Africans still speak local 
dialects and know only a smattering of French, the language of the elite.
"French is not my mother tongue. I taught myself French when I was in my 
teens," said Senegalese player Amar Diokh, 53, who clinched the one-on-one 
title from a Frenchman last year. "So I can't help but feel enormous pride to 
be able to beat the French in their own language."
Whereas in France the game is viewed as a hobby, in several African countries 
Scrabble has been elevated to the status of an official sport. Mali's Ministry 
of Sports paid for 10 players to fly to the competition that ended here Friday. 
Senegal's Minister of Sports attended the closing ceremonies of this year's 
championship and made a declaration calling the tournament one of the year's 
most important sports events.
Top Scrabble players are celebrities in Senegal and have been able to parlay 
their success at word combinations into political careers, like former doubles 
champion Arona Gaye, now an adviser on sports to Senegal.
The game's popularity has meant that even French players have become household 
names here, like Antonin Michel, a multiple champion from Nancy, France, who 
has appeared on Senegalese TV. "I get a lot more respect here than I do in 
France," he said.
The tournament held in Dakar, Senegal's capital, drew more than 500 
participants from around 20 French-speaking countries. More than half the 
countries represented are African. Players are divided by age and play in four 
major categories — one-on-one, pair-on-pair, speed Scrabble and an open 
competition in which a giant board is projected on a screen and all the 
contestants play with the same letters.
Although the French-language championship is now in its 37th year, it was not 
until 2000 that an African player grabbed one of the top honors. When Gaye and 
his Senegalese partner won the doubles tournament in Paris, the French were 
shocked — and a tad embarrassed.
"Their victory made an enormous amount of noise," says Michel.
Since then, Senegal hasn't looked back and last year, Senegalese players 
grabbed three of the top four trophies at the World Championship in Quebec.
No African player has yet won the grand champion title, which is based on 
scores in the four different competitions. But this year's No. 3 overall player 
is from Congo. Organizers say it won't be long before a player from the 
continent breaks the word ceiling.
The success of the African players has sharpened the skills of the French, said 
one of the tournament's referees, Pierre Salvati, a Scrabble player from 
Toulouse.
"For many years, the French had a lock on the competition," he said. "So the 
players started to fall asleep. Now that they're being beaten by the Africans 
and that motivates us to make sure we keep winning."
Another sign of Africa's growing influence is the number of African words that 
have been accepted into the official Francophone Scrabble dictionary. The most 
recent edition has at least 20 African words, most in Wolof, Senegal's main 
dialect. They include 'yet,' a kind of shellfish found off Senegal's coast and 
'mbalax,' the style of music made famous by Grammy winner Youssou N'Dour, 
Senegal's most famous singer.
Joseph Kouassi, 27, of Ivory Coast, said he was too poor to be able to afford 
his own boardgame and so he made his first Scrabble set using discarded kitchen 
tiles. He said every time he gets to play an African word in a Scrabble 
competition he feels a sense of pride.
"I feel joy to know that not only have I mastered French — a language that 
isn't mine — but that our African words are helping enrich the French 
language," he said

- Original Message -
From: Tracey de Morsella 
Date: Sunday, July 27, 2008 1:43 pm
Subject: [scifinoir2] Charles Barkley tips well, pays busboy's tuition to Temple
To: scifinoir2@yahoogroups.com
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED], 'Albert Fields' , [EMAIL PROTECTED], CINQUE , 'Cleo' , 
[EM