[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: What DVD's are you watching?
The Hangover (Funny but not as funny as advertised) Cloverfield (Finally broke down and bought it) The Forbidden Kingdom (Much better than I expected) Not Quite Hollywood(A documentary on Australian explotation films and B-movies) Point Blank (Finally got around to watching it to see how it compared to Payback and the novel) If QT is to be believed he plans on doing a Basterds-centric Inglorious Basterds prequel. We need more Hugo Stiglitz! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Kelwyn ravena...@... wrote: The Fall (the visual imagery is stunning) Inglourious Basterds (I want more Aldo Rain, more Basterds and less Natzis!) Foxy Brown (got it for $4 at Blockbuster - wait til she takes off her blouse - JESUS, she can act!) American Violet (must see DVD) District 9 (it was a gift - I am not a fan) The Hangover (had to see what all the fuss was about) Precious (must see DVD) ~rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Uncle Ruckus belsidus2000@ wrote: Watchmen Director's Cut Straight From the Projects How We Did It Ken Burns' The Civil War
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: What was the last SF novel you read that made you go WOW!?
Stephen Baxter's Vacuum Diagrams. It's a collection of stories and novellas that gives an overview of his Xeelee universe. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden belsidus2...@... wrote: (Charlie Stross' Accelerando SciFiNoir was Walter Moseley's Futureland.) --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: What was the last SF novel you read that made you go WOW! And, by that, I mean the last novel that made your head spin around. For me it was William Gibson's Neuromancer and that was published in 1984, twenty-five years ago! By-the-by, I am only interested in novel novels - do not summit graphic novels. Thanks, ~rave!
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Great Sky Woman by Steven Barnes
I'll have to give the second one a look because I felt the same way as you do about the first. It was interesting but not very engaging. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden belsidus2...@... wrote: (I didn't care for this one at all. The second in the series, Shadow Valley, though I found flawed, was readable and even enjoyable on a certain level. I think Steve had a tough job here--how to write a novel dealing with pre historic hunter gatherers--they got no agriculture, no towns or cities or even farms, no permanent settlements, no written language, no metallurgy-- You got a bunch of characters in other words, whose main activity is getting enough to eat--not likely they engaged in much philosophy, though no doubt they had a culture Such as that of Kalahari bushmen, Amazonian rain forest dwellers or people in New Guinea. I was brought to mind of The Song of Hiawatha which dealt with people at the same level of development. I would read another book about the Ibandi-- --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: Great Sky Woman by Steven Barnes One World/Ballantine Books, July 2006 $24.95, ISBN 0-345-45900-8 The latest offering from speculative fiction writer Steven Barnes is set in prehistoric Africa and is the first of two novels about the Ibandi, a tribe of hunter-gatherers. In this first installment, the Ibandi live in the plains near Mount Kilimanjaro. Frog Hopping, a boy, longs to become a great hunter. T'Cori, an abandoned girl, is apprentice to the tribe's medicine woman. After centuries of peaceful coexistence with other groups, the Ibandi face possible annihilation at the hands of the Herculean, genocidal Mk*tk. The survival of the tribe ultimately depends on Frog and T'Cori. Great Sky Woman may have particular resonance for African American readers, helping us imagine the history (and prehistory) we lost when we were dragged to this land. But the novel doesn't just recall far-gone epochs. Given the genocide that has bloodied Africa in recent years, Great Sky Woman also speaks to our time. No matter how much the world inside a fantasy or science fiction novel differs from our own, it is always similar in fundamental ways. After all, what writers of such books know about humanity and life, they know from riving in this world. While Barnes manages his narrative rather well on a macro level, there are flaws at the micro level. Too often, he tells us what a character is feeling, rather than showing us: All night and day ... she had felt her anxiety threaten to swirl out of control. Dangling modifiers and cliches trouble some of the sentences. There's also an inconsistency--at one point, Barnes forgets that Frog's stepfather has only one eye: There was some hidden fire in Snake's eyes. Despite these glitches, Great Sky Woman will not lose Barnes any fans. It will probably gain him some. --Reviewed by Dana Crum
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Bayou - Have you seen this?
It's a great comic. I can't wait to see some of their other work get published. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravena...@... wrote: Received my copy of the graphic novel Bayou, yesterday. Really good, strong, intelligent stuff. And it does my heart good, and gives an old man hope, that it was published by DC Comics. ~rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: http://www.zudacomics.com/bayou BAYOU DOMINATES 2009 GLYPH COMICS AWARDS, SETS NEW STANDARDS FOR EXCELLENCE History was made at the 2009 Glyph Comics Awards (GCA) ceremony on May 15, 2009 as Jeremy Love's webcomic Bayou swept all five categories it was nominated in, setting new records for wins by a single comic and wins by a single comic in a single year. The previous record for the former, Nat Turner, had four wins over two years (2006 and 2008), while the previous record for the latter, Stagger Lee, had four wins, all in 2007. Bayou's five-for-five sweep is also a first in GCA history. This is remarkable stuff. ~rave! http://twitter.com/ravenadal http://blackplush.blogspot.com
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Steve Barnes on Hancock
I don't know what the next one will be called but he's working on it. There's also a sequel to Great Sky Woman on the way. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion's_Blood --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Addams [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Third Lion's Blood book? --- On Fri, 8/1/08, B. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: From: B. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: [SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Steve Barnes on Hancock To: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com Date: Friday, August 1, 2008, 9:03 PM Lots of authors have trafficked in low rent fiction in order to make ends meet. Barnes had written detective fiction but with a fantastic bent so this wasn't a terrible stretch. I'd put Casanegra in the realm of work from Valerie Wilson-Wesley, Gary Phillips and Gary Hardwick. Is it Walter Mosley or George Pelecanos? Nope but it's an enjoyable mystery that is set in and around Hollywood. We'll have to agree to disagree. Casanegra and the sequel allowed Barnes the latitude to write the third in the Lion's Blood series so all is forgiven. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, ravenadal ravenadal@ .. wrote: It wasn't well written. Somehow Barnes and Due trafficing in low rent fiction is perceived as laudable. Frank Lucas might have been more noble than Nicky Barnes...but they were both still selling crack. ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: I didn't think it was badly written. It wasn't the usual stuff from them but it wasn't bad. There might have been some hiccups but it was the first time they wrote together and they were hammering out the rough spots. I imagine the second book will be a bit more polished. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: Ah, hecky naw, man! Sex doesn't bother me (the only thing I want in this life is my life and more sex). Bad writing does. ~rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: I've read it and I have to ask what bothered you about the book? Just the selling out in general or the sexcapades? Knowing Steven Barnes views on black men not getting to have sex in movies, I expected that there would be even more sex in the book. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: Doesn't make YOU want to punch them out. Have you read that trash? ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, Chris Hayden belsidus2000@ wrote: (Now Rave. You know that he is denouncing them for the WAY they took the money and ran, not for the mere taking and running. At least they way he, Due and Blair do it don't make you want to punch them out.) --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: I am somewhat amused by Steven Barnes' position. On one hand he denounces Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Sam L. Jackson for taking the money and running while on the other hand he and his lovely wife, Tananarive Due, make a naked money grab by collaborating with Blair Underwood on the blatantly commercial and barely literate Tennyson Hardwick novels Casanegra and In the Night of the Heat. ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@ yahoogroups. com, Chris Hayden belsidus2000@ wrote: http://darkush. blogspot. com/2008/ 07/hancock- 2008.html [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Steve Barnes on Hancock
I think Casanegra is a departure for Barnes and Due. It's certainly not a stretch. At first it seemed you had a problem with their actions in regard to the project but now this seems to have turned into a indictment of Barnes. In regards to the blog post about Hancock, Barnes argument was that Will Smith is a big enough star to demand some concessions. Will Smith can get a picture greenlit with his name alone. Barnes and Due to me took the Danny Glover and Denzel Washington position. They do stuff beneath them to get the projects they are passionate about made. When you're getting $20,000,000 + some of the backend you're not worried about your kids eating. Barnes' has been critical about the treatment of black men on screen as sexual/complete people and black romance being treated as box office poison for a long time. This has been a bone in his craw and Will Smith and Hancock was just his latest example. Maybe Will Smith has his own reasons for not doing love scenes in his movies but a star of his status could force the issue if it was important to him. It's not his issue, it Barnes'. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I agree Casanegra is not that much of a stretch for Barnes. As an author about the best I can say about him is that he is prolific. I do expect better from Due. That said, the only real problem I have with Barnes is his calling out black actors who are quilty of doing no more than what Barnes and his wife have done as writers of the Hardwick series. What? Will Smith is not allowed to feed his family and send his kids to college? I think Steve Barnes doth protest too much. ~rave! By the way, I love detective fiction. They are pleasant way to cleanse my palate between more taxing fare. So I have read a couple of Valery Wilson-Wesley's Tamara Hayle novels. Still, as a standard, I find these books a very low bar to step over. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: Lots of authors have trafficked in low rent fiction in order to make ends meet. Barnes had written detective fiction but with a fantastic bent so this wasn't a terrible stretch. I'd put Casanegra in the realm of work from Valerie Wilson-Wesley, Gary Phillips and Gary Hardwick. Is it Walter Mosley or George Pelecanos? Nope but it's an enjoyable mystery that is set in and around Hollywood. We'll have to agree to disagree. Casanegra and the sequel allowed Barnes the latitude to write the third in the Lion's Blood series so all is forgiven.
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Steve Barnes on Hancock
I didn't think it was badly written. It wasn't the usual stuff from them but it wasn't bad. There might have been some hiccups but it was the first time they wrote together and they were hammering out the rough spots. I imagine the second book will be a bit more polished. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ah, hecky naw, man! Sex doesn't bother me (the only thing I want in this life is my life and more sex). Bad writing does. ~rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: I've read it and I have to ask what bothered you about the book? Just the selling out in general or the sexcapades? Knowing Steven Barnes views on black men not getting to have sex in movies, I expected that there would be even more sex in the book. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: Doesn't make YOU want to punch them out. Have you read that trash? ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden belsidus2000@ wrote: (Now Rave. You know that he is denouncing them for the WAY they took the money and ran, not for the mere taking and running. At least they way he, Due and Blair do it don't make you want to punch them out.) --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: I am somewhat amused by Steven Barnes' position. On one hand he denounces Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Sam L. Jackson for taking the money and running while on the other hand he and his lovely wife, Tananarive Due, make a naked money grab by collaborating with Blair Underwood on the blatantly commercial and barely literate Tennyson Hardwick novels Casanegra and In the Night of the Heat. ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden belsidus2000@ wrote: http://darkush.blogspot.com/2008/07/hancock-2008.html
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Steve Barnes on Hancock
Lots of authors have trafficked in low rent fiction in order to make ends meet. Barnes had written detective fiction but with a fantastic bent so this wasn't a terrible stretch. I'd put Casanegra in the realm of work from Valerie Wilson-Wesley, Gary Phillips and Gary Hardwick. Is it Walter Mosley or George Pelecanos? Nope but it's an enjoyable mystery that is set in and around Hollywood. We'll have to agree to disagree. Casanegra and the sequel allowed Barnes the latitude to write the third in the Lion's Blood series so all is forgiven. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: It wasn't well written. Somehow Barnes and Due trafficing in low rent fiction is perceived as laudable. Frank Lucas might have been more noble than Nicky Barnes...but they were both still selling crack. ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: I didn't think it was badly written. It wasn't the usual stuff from them but it wasn't bad. There might have been some hiccups but it was the first time they wrote together and they were hammering out the rough spots. I imagine the second book will be a bit more polished. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: Ah, hecky naw, man! Sex doesn't bother me (the only thing I want in this life is my life and more sex). Bad writing does. ~rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, B. Smith daikaiju66@ wrote: I've read it and I have to ask what bothered you about the book? Just the selling out in general or the sexcapades? Knowing Steven Barnes views on black men not getting to have sex in movies, I expected that there would be even more sex in the book. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: Doesn't make YOU want to punch them out. Have you read that trash? ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden belsidus2000@ wrote: (Now Rave. You know that he is denouncing them for the WAY they took the money and ran, not for the mere taking and running. At least they way he, Due and Blair do it don't make you want to punch them out.) --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: I am somewhat amused by Steven Barnes' position. On one hand he denounces Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Sam L. Jackson for taking the money and running while on the other hand he and his lovely wife, Tananarive Due, make a naked money grab by collaborating with Blair Underwood on the blatantly commercial and barely literate Tennyson Hardwick novels Casanegra and In the Night of the Heat. ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden belsidus2000@ wrote: http://darkush.blogspot.com/2008/07/hancock-2008.html
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: What you need to know about Watchmen
I hope they manage to pull this off. The trailer was perfect. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: www.chicagotribune.com/features/lifestyle/chi-watchmen- 0728_coverjul28,0,4606257\ .story chicagotribune.com What you need to know about 'Watchmen' By Glenn Jeffers Chicago Tribune reporter July 28, 2008 Who watches the Watchmen? Soon, we will. At least, that's what Warner Bros. and DC Comics are counting on when their next comic book adaptation, Watchmen, hits theaters in March. Many moviegoers got a sneak peek of the film before seeing The Dark Knight. Plainly defined, Watchmen is a 1986 graphic novel written by British writer Alan Moore (From Hell, V for Vendetta) and illustrated by Dave Gibbons. It is perhaps the most celebrated title in comicdom and has been showered with accolades including a Hugo Award, science fiction's highest honor. Time listed it as one of its top 100 English-language novels. Watchmen touched on many Reagan-era themes, including the Cold War and the nuclear arms race. But, ultimately, it moved comic books away from the kitschy, kids-only image of the '60s and '70s and proved the genre could handle more complex, adult drama. Originally released as a 12-issue limited series, Watchmen focuses on a group of retired heroes living in an alternative version of 1985 New York. When one of them, The Comedian, is murdered, the rest uncover a plot that could spark a nuclear war between the United States and the Soviet Union. Here's what you need to know to enter the Watchmen world. The Characters Dr. Manhattan (a.k.a. Jon Osterman) Played by: Billy Crudup (Almost Famous, Big Fish) Trapped inside an intrinsic field generator during a test run, scientist Jon Osterman was ripped apart by the ensuing explosion. Somehow his consciousness survived, and he rebuilt himself as a glowing, blue-skinned being with a dislike for pants. The only super-powered hero in the Watchmen universe, Dr. Manhattan can do just about anything, from rearranging any kind of matter to teleportation. Interesting fact: Crudup will star in the upcoming film, Public Enemies, which was filmed around the Chicago area. He'll play J. Edgar Hoover, who allegedly also had issues with clothing. Rorschach (a.k.a. Walter Kovacs) Played by: Jackie Earle Haley (Little Children) Wearing a black-and-white mask that resembles a Rorschach test, this vigilante patrols the streets of New York. Spewing conspiracy theories and smelling like a trash bin, Rorschach is considered more of a brutal nuisance than a help. But he's the first to realize that The Comedian's death is more than just a run-of-the-mill homicide. Interesting fact: As in the graphic novel, the inkblot pattern on Rorschach's mask will change in the movie, thanks to motion-capture technology and visual effects. The Comedian (a.k.a. Edward Blake) Played by: Jeffrey Dean Morgan (P.S. I Love You) Amoral, misogynistic and a borderline sadist, The Comedian took pride in doling out punishment, which he served not only to criminals, but to protesters, women and some of his colleagues. It was all part of his little joke with the world. You know, the one about the heroes being as bad as the villains. Interesting fact: Morgan has made a career of playing characters who don't last through the third act, including transplant patient Denny Duquette on Grey's Anatomy, demon-fighter John Winchester on Supernatural, and Nancy Botwin's husband Judah on Weeds. Nite Owl I II (a.k.a. Hollis Mason and Dan Dreiberg) Played by: Stephen McHattie (A History of Violence) and Patrick Wilson (Little Children, The Alamo) The first man to wear the Nite Owl mantle was Hollis Mason, a police officer who led the Minuteman, a team of costumed heroes in the 1940s. After a successful career of crime-fighting, Mason retired and wrote an autobiography called Under The Hood. Soon, Dan Dreiberg, an aeronautics engineer and lifelong Nite Owl fan, contacted Mason and asked to carry on the name. Interesting fact: In the book, Mason and Dreiberg meet up every Saturday night to drink beer, listen to jazz albums and swap crime-fighting stories. Ozymandias (a.k.a. Adrian Veidt) Played by: Matthew Goode (The Lookout, Stealing Liberty) After spending years busting up crime syndicates, the self- proclaimed smartest man in the world hung up the tights, made his identity public and started a company that sold self-help books, diet drinks and Ozymandias action figures. Interesting fact: Watchmen director Zack Snyder drastically altered Ozymandias' costume for the movie, replacing the character's tunic and gold unitard with one that parodies the outfits in Joel Schumaker's much-maligned Batman Robin. Silk Spectre I II (a.k.a. Sally Jupiter and Laurel Jane Laurie Juspeczyk) Played by: Carla Gugino (Sin City, Spy Kids)
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Steve Barnes on Hancock
But they were in a different position than the people he referenced. Will Smith has power. He is a major Hollywood player and he can use his clout to demand changes. Other stars of his caliber(and lower on the totem pole) do it so why can't he? As far as the Tennyson Hardwicke novels go, I ain't mad at them. Barnes and Due have never tried to hide the fact what those novels were meant to do. They wrote those books for money to put their kids through school, to allow them the freedom to do the work they love and to strengthen their profile in Hollywood and it worked. Their film projects are finally getting off the ground and we got a sequel to The Living Blood and a new novels in the Lion's Blood and Great Sky Woman series. And the books aren't bad. They are good summer mysteries/beach books. It's not Walter Mosley but they sure aren't thug lit or whatever moniker they are sticking on what passes for urban fiction this week. BTW I used those books as a gateway drug for a lot of folks that would have never picked up their other novels. So now folks I know that would never think to read anything remotely sci-fi or horror are reading stuff like Charisma, Blood Brothers, The Between and their other work. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I am somewhat amused by Steven Barnes' position. On one hand he denounces Will Smith, Denzel Washington and Sam L. Jackson for taking the money and running while on the other hand he and his lovely wife, Tananarive Due, make a naked money grab by collaborating with Blair Underwood on the blatantly commercial and barely literate Tennyson Hardwick novels Casanegra and In the Night of the Heat. ~(no)rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden belsidus2000@ wrote: http://darkush.blogspot.com/2008/07/hancock-2008.html
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: 20th Anniversary Edition of Nueromancer
I really liked his stuff up to Virtual Light. After that I lost interest. My wife on the other hand loved Pattern Recognition and Spook Country. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: (None of the others he did were that good. He was on fire when he did that one. Why he didn't milk it till it ran dry I don't know) --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, ravenadal ravenadal@ wrote: Few novels have rocked my world the way Neuromancer did. I still purchase books written by William Gibson, athough I haven't read one in years. ~rave! --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden Frofidemus@ wrote: The foreword and afterword are ludicrous--but the book still rocks (rips, kicks) after 20 years. This kind of writing is to shoot for.
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: The Pesthouse by Jim Crace
This sounds like a more a literary version of S. M. Stirling's Sunrise Lands series. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chris Hayden [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: This is a novel set in a Post Apocalyptic America that Diane Reims practically raved about on NPR. I got it and it was, while not horrible, not very good either. I never felt so set up since people raved about the superiority of The Ghormenghast trilogy to Lord of the Rings. This is actually one case where a non literary book--either of Octavia Butler's Parables books, was superior to the literary version.
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: to whomever suggested...
Maybe Nantucket had some shortwave enthusiasts. CB bands would work for short range communication as well. I thought they had trouble with their normal communications after the event happened but it's been a while since I've read the book. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, La Tricia Ransom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: ...to me Island in the Sea of Time,by S.M. Stirling, i thank you. i bought it shortly after it was suggested, but only recently got around to reading it, and i enjoyed it very very much, and if you know of others like it, let me know. i have only one question that pestered me thru-out: how were they able to communicate via radio if there were no satellites or transmission towers/antennae? I'd like them to say that Shirley Chisholm had guts.That's how I'd like to be remembered. -- Shirley Chisholm, 1924-2005 (U.S. lawmaker) [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Community email addresses: Post message: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com Subscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe Digest Mode: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS Visit your group "SciFiNoir_Lit" on the web. To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service.
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Perdido Street Station
I haven't read Perdido Street Station but I have read The Scar and Iron Council. Both are very good reads and I reccommend them. Of the two I'd say that The Scar is the better book. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Chedder Bob [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Hey all: I'm reading Perdido Street station by China Mieville and I've got to say its one of the best sci-f/horror texts I've read in a while. I only use the term horror because the landscape he presents is truly horrific and grotesque in a way that I've never seen geogrpahy described as. I only use the term science fiction due to the novels prescription of the term thaumaturgy (Literally mircale working) as a science along side alchemy and the like. Anyone who hasn't read it I strongly recommend it. And don't worry, issues of race, gender, and class are all present within this work, and not in a typical U.S. apologetic way. A question for any who've read any of Mr. Mieville's other works: Worth the bother? P.S.: I'd be so down for a classics sci-fi reading list if not group. Let a kid know. - Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls for ridiculously low rates. [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Community email addresses: Post message: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com Subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe Digest Mode: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
Re: [SciFiNoir Lit] Ender's Game
I loved Ender's Game but I enjoyed each successive book set in that universe a little bit less. One day I'll try to finish the series. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Nora [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: I just finished Ender's Game. I already read Ender's shadow so i kinda knew the storyline and plot. I really liked the 'parallax' (different points of view) that the two books presented. Anybody have any thoughts on the books? I loved ENDER'S GAME. Didn't care for Shadow -- I liked the stuff about Bean struggling to survive on the streets, though I'm not sure I believed it -- but I wasn't really all that interested in seeing EG redone from someone else's perspective. The fact that Ender wasn't infallible wasn't the point of EG, IMO; it was Ender's spiritual development that made EG so powerful. Bean, by contrast, did not develop along these lines at all, so I stopped reading the Shadow books after the first one. What did you think of Alai's (the one black character in the Battle School) portrayal? I was always put off by the fact that the majority of kids in the battle school seemed to be white/European, but considering it was Card's first novel I gave him some slack. I *was* annoyed that the only thing they could find to tease him about was being black, and the use of the n-word. Then again, I think that might actually be typical of children; they notice the differences first. Nora Community email addresses: Post message: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com Subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe Digest Mode: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Best and worst spec fic books of 2005
It's the fourth novel in the A Song Of Ice And Fire series. It's like The War of The Roses done in a Dark Fantasy world. There are four novels in the series: A Game of Thrones (1996) A Clash of Kings (1999) A Storm of Swords (2000) A Feast for Crows (2005) Some folks call it Dark Tolkien but I say they are two drastically different beasts. The land of Westeros is at crucial time in its existence. It appears that the an old, dark power is stirring at the north end of the kingdom but rebellion, wars and court intrigue have prevented the rulers from dealing with the coming threat. It's heavy on royal court intrigue, wars, has tons of well developed and fleshed out characters. Everyone has shades of grey and only a few of the characters are totally good or evil. Magic is scarce but it is scary and powerful and everyone touched by it iswell lets just say I wouldn't want to be a mage of any sort in this world. And NO character is safe in these novels. Be warned that it is violent and quite dark in tone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A_Song_of_Ice_and_Fire A Feast For Crows and its planned follow up A Dance With Dragons are the bridging novels of the series. Some folks complain it didn't move the plot along far enough but I loved it. It's a rich novel filled with characters that just leap off the page. All the threads set up in this one will pay off big time. The subtitle of this one should be Hubris Is A Killer. Never has one character so richly deserved the fate they dealt themselves. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, La Tricia Ransom [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: what's it about? i'm not familiar with the writer. On Jan 7, 2006, at 3:58 PM, SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com wrote: Subject: Re: Re: Best and worst spec fic books of 2005 I am reading it now and I agree lois B. Smith [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: A Feast For Crows by George R. R. Martin. It was worth the wait. You can have wealth concentrated in the hands of a few, or democracy. But you cannot have both. --Louis Brandeis [Non-text portions of this message have been removed] Community email addresses: Post message: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com Subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe Digest Mode: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Best and worst spec fic books of 2005
A Feast For Crows by George R. R. Martin. It was worth the wait. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, Tracey de Morsella \(formerly Tracey L. Minor\) [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: What do you guys think were the best and worst speculative fiction books of 2005. Please share with us why you made your selections. What forthcoming books are you looking forward to Tracey de Morsella Convergence Media, Inc Publisher of The Job Seeker's Guide to Diversity Employment Resources 8345 NW 66th Street, Suite 8916 Miami, FL 33166-2626 Phone: 888-750-6132 [EMAIL PROTECTED] URL: http://www.jobseekersdiversityguide.com -- No virus found in this outgoing message. Checked by AVG Free Edition. Version: 7.1.371 / Virus Database: 267.14.10/218 - Release Date: 1/2/2006 Community email addresses: Post message: SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com Subscribe:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Subscribe Digest Mode: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Unsubscribe: [EMAIL PROTECTED]: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ Yahoo! Groups Links * To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/SciFiNoir_Lit/ * To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: [EMAIL PROTECTED] * Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/
[SciFiNoir Lit] Re: Lion's Blood again
Looks like I picked a good day to come back to the fold. LKS, I read a lot of alternate history and I am well versed on Turtledove's work. Some of your complaints against Barnes are leveled at all writers in the genre including Turtledove. I've seen some pretty brutal discussions where Turtledove gets hammered for getting the history not quite right or bending the facts to suit his assumptions. The getting the history right and creating a believeable point of departure are very important to genre but the stories are more the bigger draw for me. I don't find the same problems with Barnes series that you do. I don't think he's working in quite the same vein as Turtledove. I think a closer comparison would be to the work of S.M. Stirling. His Draka and New British Empire novels get flak for some of the same reasons you have problems with Barnes but it doesn't hurt the novels or the storytelling. Barnes, Stirling and others get a little creative within the genre and in some ways stack the probability deck to get the playing field they want to write stories about. The Lion's Blood and Draka timelines fall apart under scrutiny(to many of the lucky dice rolls form the timelines) but I don't think it's their goal to create a perfect p.o.d. BTW what do you think of Turtledove's stuff where he loosens the formula and writes some alternate history that really plays with the conventions? Guns Of The South has huge, improbable deus ex machina as the foundation of the story and A Different Flesh makes a lot of what if assumptions to give him a neolithic North and South America. Flaws aside these are some of his more popular works. You could add his World War series in there as well. --- In SciFiNoir_Lit@yahoogroups.com, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: Ok. I've got a bit of time. The reason I reiterate exactly how this thread started--as a critique of what Barnes has to do to get to the next level--is because without that part we veer off into weird directions. Directions that may be lively but may end up shedding more heat than light. This is why the comparison with Turtledove, something Chris neglected, becomes important. Turtledove's writing is a definite problem as it relates to black people. The depiction of Africans in his fantasy riff of World War II was deeply problematic. But he's the best in the business...in alternative history. If we're to refer to Barnes as one of the best in alternative history, then to ME what we're saying is that he's as good as, if not better than, the best in his field. What makes an alternative history good? Some of the same things that makes a STORY good. Because in science fiction, one of the most important things is creating a believable world--the world in science fiction and fantasy is as much a character as the real characters--getting the reader to suspend her disbelief is crucial. You don't suspend her disbelief, and it doesn't really matter how good or interesting your characters are. In alternative history for ME, an important part of suspending disbelief is creating a plausible jumping off point for the alternative universe. In Philip Roth's recent novel THE PLOT AGAINST AMERICA his jumping off point isa 1940 presidential election in which truman loses to Charles Lindbergh. Once Lindbergh wins he quickly establishes America as an anti-Semitic nation that uses all types of terroristic legislation and behavior to subjugate American jews. For a number of readers, this account was riveting. There's one problem though. There was ALREADY an example in the forties of a group of people who were subjugated by terroristic policy and law. US. I don't know how Roth could've ignored this simple fact--lynching had died down a bit but people were still being dragged out of their homes in the middle of the night, they were victimized and brutalized by night riders, their land stolen, their bodies broken by slave labor. But Roth did. No way in hell does that alternative history ring true for me. I cannot suspend my disbelief. ... Reading Lion's Blood, what jumped out to me was that I found myself asking over and over again--why does slavery still occur if the Europeans don't do it? The enslavement was a product of material expansion--Slaves WORKED THE LAND TO PROVIDE PRODUCT. In South America and in the Caribbean they worked sugar cane. In the Deep South they worked cotton. These goods were then used to create finished product that was sold on an international market. The countries of Europe were so desirous of slave labor as a way to grow their own economies that the Pope had to step in and basically create a legal process that would determine WHO had the rights to go WHERE. And of course on top of this was an ideological machine that used religion, science, and manifest destiny, to say
