Re: [Scons-dev] Shipping one time migration scripts with SCons

2016-02-01 Thread Dirk Bächle 

Hi Anatoly,

On 01.02.2016 20:14, anatoly techtonik wrote:

Hi,

There is an interesting thread, which needs some
consensus.
https://bitbucket.org/scons/scons/pull-requests/302/change-the-cache-to-use-2-character/



"consensus" between whom? And what is your concrete idea about how this consensus should be reached? It looks to me as if the issue 
has been properly discussed among the people that are actively working on the pull request...and they've reached a consensus already.

One that I support too, I might add...


I am against shipping global scripts that are not
generally useful to all scons users, but it seems
that nobody agrees.



Yes, I see that you have concerns and your position is on the one side of the scale. But the guys that have done all the hard work 
have a position too, which happens to be different from yours (=other side of the scale). This happens, please don't take offense 
over it and get upset.


Best regards,

Dirk

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Re: [Scons-dev] Shipping one time migration scripts with SCons

2016-02-01 Thread William Blevins 
On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Dirk Bächle  wrote:

> Hi Anatoly,
>
> On 01.02.2016 20:14, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>
>> Hi,
>>
>> There is an interesting thread, which needs some
>> consensus.
>>
>> https://bitbucket.org/scons/scons/pull-requests/302/change-the-cache-to-use-2-character/
>>
>>
> "consensus" between whom? And what is your concrete idea about how this
> consensus should be reached? It looks to me as if the issue has been
> properly discussed among the people that are actively working on the pull
> request...and they've reached a consensus already.
> One that I support too, I might add...


I think that a script of this nature should be revision controlled with the
software release that it is related to. I'm not sure when this script
should be removed sadly. I wish I could recommend doing it in the commit
immediately after the first SCons release containing the change, but seems
that many SCons users don't really keep up-to-date, so there is a definite
possibility for people skipping versions of the software.


>
>
> I am against shipping global scripts that are not
>> generally useful to all scons users, but it seems
>> that nobody agrees.
>>
>>
> Yes, I see that you have concerns and your position is on the one side of
> the scale. But the guys that have done all the hard work have a position
> too, which happens to be different from yours (=other side of the scale).
> This happens, please don't take offense over it and get upset.
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dirk
>
>
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Re: [Scons-dev] Missing Wiki page on pkg-config

2016-02-01 Thread Russel Winder 
On Sun, 2016-01-31 at 22:07 +0200, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> […]
> 
> So how can I use it? I don't have `pkg-config` installed and I can't
> install
> pango binary package from MinGW, but I need to get to includes, libs
> and
> C flags from this archive.

This add-on is all about using pkg-config, which is the standard
mechanism for dealing with library options and dependencies. If this is
not installed then it is down to manually knowing everything and
encoding it in the build.

If you cannot install Pango library, headers, and dependencies, I am
not sure there is any point in knowing the flags and libraries as you
won't be able to do any compilation.

Clearly I am missing something of the situation you are in. Sorry.

[…]
> 
> A most popular desktop system in the world. Somehow it happens that
> "Windows is awesome" and "Linux sucks 2016".

Everyone to their own view. :-)

> Also, a system where the problem with free mingw toolchain and
> pkg-config is more actual than for systems where these were designed
> to work.

Exactly. Pango, Fontconfig, etc. are alien to Windows, they are Linux
and UNIX things (that also work fairly well on the UNIX variant called
OSX). I am not convinced trying to get stuff that is alien to Windows
to work on Windows is worth the effort. 

I guess that using full on MinGW or Cygwin would make things a lot
easier, but last time I did anything like this was > 12 years ago.

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: [Scons-dev] Missing Wiki page on pkg-config

2016-02-01 Thread Russel Winder 
On Sun, 2016-01-31 at 22:14 +0200, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> 
[…]
> Wiki usually contains more info and useful user feedback. So is it
> possible to recover that page to ensure that nothing important was
> lost?

I think it would be worth having the page recovered if at all possible.
> > 
[…]
> Currently it is done with
> env.ParseConfig("pkg-config --libs --cflags $PKGCONFIG_FLAGS
> pango" + backend + version_arg)
> https://github.com/wesnoth/wesnoth/blob/master/scons/pango.py#L22
> 
> but it assumes that I have development libs installed on the system
> in
> appropriate location. I am on Windows. But even on Linux I'd prefer
> not
> to install anything anyway just to compile one package. So instead I
> unpack http://win-builds.org/doku.php/1.5.0_packages#pango_1341-1_-_l
> ibrary_for_layout_and_rendering_of_text
> and need to find all files there.
> 
> Is that feasible?

No. You have to have the development headers installed to do the
compilation at all, and the *.pc files needed for pkg-config invariable
come with the development headers.

Pango comes with a lot of dependencies.

> I also found this on PyPI - https://pypi.python.org/pypi/pykg-
> config/1.3.0
> which seems like it may help.

Looks like an unmaintained project. Certainly we could fork this and
have it inside SCons so as to replace the need for the external pkg-
config program. The ParseConfig stuff could then be rewritten to make
is very much easier to work with. Maybe this would lead to work on the
whole Configure system, which is a wee bit difficult to work with at
times.
 

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: [Scons-dev] On the state of CI

2016-02-01 Thread Russel Winder 
On Sun, 2016-01-31 at 22:17 +0200, anatoly techtonik wrote:
> 
[…]
> So, you're not going to donate to SCons Foundation? =(
> And we could get a nice build graph representation for that
> money.

Well I am donating my time to SCons, which I think must count for
something ;-)

-- 
Russel.
=
Dr Russel Winder  t: +44 20 7585 2200   voip: sip:russel.win...@ekiga.net
41 Buckmaster Roadm: +44 7770 465 077   xmpp: rus...@winder.org.uk
London SW11 1EN, UK   w: www.russel.org.uk  skype: russel_winder



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Re: [Scons-dev] The Git vs Mercurial debate…

2016-02-01 Thread Neal Becker 
Russel Winder wrote:

> I have started using Git submodules as ways of getting certain sorts of
> dependencies into projects. I have no idea if Mercurial has something
> similar.
> 
> In this case getting tools and add-ons from a repository is easy using
> Git and submodules. Populating site_scons for a project then becomes
> very much more automated.
> 

Yes, hg has something similar.

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Re: [Scons-dev] Shipping one time migration scripts with SCons

2016-02-01 Thread Vasily 
Maybe such scripts could be kept in a separate directory or even in a
separate repository to not be mixed with core scons code?

Thanks,
Vasily
02 февр. 2016 г. 0:57 пользователь "William Blevins" 
написал:

>
>
> On Mon, Feb 1, 2016 at 9:13 PM, Dirk Bächle  wrote:
>
>> Hi Anatoly,
>>
>> On 01.02.2016 20:14, anatoly techtonik wrote:
>>
>>> Hi,
>>>
>>> There is an interesting thread, which needs some
>>> consensus.
>>>
>>> https://bitbucket.org/scons/scons/pull-requests/302/change-the-cache-to-use-2-character/
>>>
>>>
>> "consensus" between whom? And what is your concrete idea about how this
>> consensus should be reached? It looks to me as if the issue has been
>> properly discussed among the people that are actively working on the pull
>> request...and they've reached a consensus already.
>> One that I support too, I might add...
>
>
> I think that a script of this nature should be revision controlled with
> the software release that it is related to. I'm not sure when this script
> should be removed sadly. I wish I could recommend doing it in the commit
> immediately after the first SCons release containing the change, but seems
> that many SCons users don't really keep up-to-date, so there is a definite
> possibility for people skipping versions of the software.
>
>
>>
>>
>> I am against shipping global scripts that are not
>>> generally useful to all scons users, but it seems
>>> that nobody agrees.
>>>
>>>
>> Yes, I see that you have concerns and your position is on the one side of
>> the scale. But the guys that have done all the hard work have a position
>> too, which happens to be different from yours (=other side of the scale).
>> This happens, please don't take offense over it and get upset.
>>
>> Best regards,
>>
>> Dirk
>>
>>
>> ___
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>> Scons-dev@scons.org
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>
>
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