[scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
[EMAIL PROTECTED] said: One organization here in the States advertises the actual tempo of reels at 130-140 per half note/minim. Ignoring the fact that these settings are not on the standard metronome, is that lightening fast or what? Can our fiddlers really play reels that fast? Can people dance that fast?? I'm pretty sure this organization is the Scottish Harp Society of America. I checked SHSA's online rules and found that the complete rules listed the tempo range at 130-140. However, the abridged rules (which are supposed to be more competitor-friendly) listed the range as 90-130. I checked with SHSA's competition committee and they feel the 90-130 tempo range should be used, *not* the 130-140 range. They were at a loss as to where the higher range came from, as well. The only thing that makes sense is that I, as the SHSA's website person, botched the editing of the text rules into HTML. Mea culpa. I don't know how this happened, but I apologize to you Cynthia (and anyone else bothered by the faster tempos) for any heartache and finger-stress I caused you in trying to match these higher tempos. Wayne Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Toby Rider wrote: I very much like the statement that John Chambers and others made about this subject, you have to be sensitive to who, what and where you are playing for. I'm glad that you said this - I've been meaning to respond to this thread ... As I have both played for and danced at events, I have found this discussion very informative and helpful. In particular, I was very impressed with John's response, especially this comment: One thing that I like to point out to newcomers to this and other kinds of dance is that there's an interesting pattern to the speed: When playing for novices, you will need to play a bit slowly at first, and speed up as they learn the dances. But when playing for a crowd of experienced dancers, they will want you to slow down. This is, contrary to common opinion, not an age-related thing. But the more advanced dancers have the steps and the balance, and they'll like the music slower so they can do things with the dance. (agreed - especially for hornpipes!!) I thought that this showed a great deal of 'insight', understanding and sensitivity to both players' and dancers' needs ... if followed, this advice would no doubt create a great synergy between dancers and players. I couldn't help thinking, as I read the note, that any dance where the musicians projected this kind of knowledgeable, yet seemingly easy-going and accommodating attitude, would be a really positive, rewarding, fun event for all involved - players and dancers alike. Thanks for the info so far, everyone. Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] tempos
I surfed on the web for Toby and read all about him. He should know what he is talking about and, despite the fact that I am a judge for the SHSA Comps I agree with almost everything he says! Competitions are a real problem in the trad. music world. I don't really know what I'm talking about at all. Charlie Gore knows what he's talking about. I just have strong opinions and I've decided I'm not afraid to share them. I'm what William Marshall would have called a bungler :-) I've decided that I'm okay with being a bungler though, just as long as I'm having fun with it. :-) -- Toby Rider ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) He either fears his fate too much, Or his deserts are small, That puts it not unto the touch To win or lose it all. - James Graham, Marquis of Montrose Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
Wayne Morrison wrote: I don't know how this happened, but I apologize to you Cynthia (and anyone else bothered by the faster tempos) for any heartache and finger-stress I caused you in trying to match these higher tempos. It's even worse for guitarists where dance tempos can pretty much destroy the chance of expression unless you resort to flatpick melody playing against a rythmic chord accompaniment. It's not especially difficult to play fast, and some classical pieces are extremely fast - but NOT on the whole for the entire melody (more fast in the way that bits of Mozart or Bach can be fast - the melody threads itself into a pattern of alternating notes or arpeggios). And if I want to play that sort of fast I immediately pick up a nylon string guitar, too, not a steel string. I find it funny sometimes that dancers will completely fail to identify a tune when played at an entirely different tempo. A while ago I played 'The Birks of Invermay' from Bremner's 1758 guittar tutor - where it is written without much 'snap', and for an instrument which is best played delicately and with use of sustain. A Scottish country dancer friend liked it and asked what it was - after I told him, he immediately recognised it, but said playing at such a slow speed had hidden the tune from him. To me, the slow speed brings out the beauty of the tune (which has a very song-like melody and is no doubt a song too) and the dance tempo just makes it sound like everything else! David Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
David Kilpatrick writes:
| ... A Scottish country dancer friend
| liked it and asked what it was - after I told him, he immediately
| recognised it, but said playing at such a slow speed had hidden the tune
| from him. To me, the slow speed brings out the beauty of the tune (which
| has a very song-like melody and is no doubt a song too) and the dance
| tempo just makes it sound like everything else!
This is indeed a problem with playing for dancing. The
tempo is determined by the dance, and you really have to
honor it. If there are no dancers, you are a lot freer to
play with the tempo, vary it, etc.
A fair number of the SCD strathspey dances have standard
tunes that are really slow airs. For dancing, of course,
you have to play them in a strict tempo. They don't come
out sounding like slow airs, but they don't sound like real
strathspeys, either. It does add variety to the dance
program.
For that matter, a tune that goes over quite well in waltz
tempo is Niel Gow's Lament for the Death of His Second
Wife. Now, this is obviously a bit of sacrilege, dancing on
her grave as it were. But it's a very effective waltz. And
then, when people ask you what that beautiful waltz tune
was, you tell them, and they get this confused look on
their face ...
Another interesting experiment a bunch of us tried at this
year's local Hogmanay dance (in Concord, Mass.), was the
following medley. You might note one tune that isn't
exactly a traditional Scottish air. But in fact it worked
well. Some of the dancers were singing along, and a number
had obvious grins on their faces. There were also a couple
who asked us whether that was a Beatles tune. Not quite.
Possibly the most interesting aspect was that most of the
remarks were about the fourth, minor tune. I don't think
any of the dancers had heard it before, and they really
seemed to notice it.
It did turn out to be good that we had several rehearsals;
the third tune lacks a downbeat, and we learned that the
accompaniment had to come in really strong to keep the beat
going. Anyway, this was the most-remarked-on medley of the
evening.
X: 0
T: Miss Gibson's Strathspey
T: 8x32S3
O: RSCDS Leaflet
K: A
X: 1
P: The Music o' Spey
C: J.S.Skinner
R: air, strathspey
Z: John Chambers [EMAIL PROTECTED]
N: Scottish Violinist p.35; Hardie p.55; BSFC II-3; Caledonian Companion, p.49.
N: The Fiddle Music of Scotland, James Hunter, #36.
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: A
[| E2 \
| Ac2 BA E2 E2 | DFE FA E7E2 FG | AA2 A2 F#mA2 A2 | BmB4 E7e2 E2 |
| Ac2 BA E2 E2 | DFE FA E7E2 FG | AA2 A2 E7B2 e2 | AA6 |]
[| E2 \
| E7d2 dc B2 E2 | Ae2 ed c2 de | Df2 e2 d2 c2 | E7c4 {dc}B2 ed |
| Ac2 BA E2 E2 | DFE FA E7E2 FG | AA2 A2 E7B2 e2 | AA6 |]
X: 2
P: Annie Laurie
O: Trad
R: air
M: C
L: 1/8
K: D
A7FE \
| DD2 D2 d3 c | Gc B3- B2 B2 |1 DA2 F2 BmF2 ED | EmE4- A7E2 FE \
:|2 DA2 F2 A7F3 E | DD6 A7A2 ||
|| Dd2 d2 A7e3 e | Df6 A7A2 | Bmd2 d2 Eme3 e | F#7f6 fe \
| Gd3 c Bc dB | DA2 F2- BmF2 FE | GDd- dF A7F3 E | DD6 |]
X: 3
P: As Tears Go By
C: Sir Michael Jagger, Keith Richards
M: 4/4
L: 1/8
K: G
|: Gz2G2 A2B2 | AA2A2 E2G2 | CG4- GEG2 | DF8 \
| Gz2G2 A2B2 | AA3A E2G2 | CG4- GEG2 | DF8 |
|1 Cz2cc c2B2 | DA3A GA3 | Gz2B2 B2A2 | EmG E7 \
| Cz2e2 e2e2 | e3E F2G2 | DA4- AGAG | F4 z4 :|
|2 Cz2cc c2B2 | DA3A GA3 | Gz2B2 B2AG | EmB3B AG3 \
| Cz2e2 e2e2 | e3E F2G2 | DA4- AGAG | F4 z4 |]
X: 4
P: Back to the Hills
N: Dedicated to Tom Fraser
C: J.S.Skinner
R: air, jig, reel
N: Skinner, SV p.41, Hardie (see fingerings) p.111 [Reverie]
M: C
L: 1/4
K: Em
F \
| EmEF GF/E/ | AmAB cB/A/ | EmBG {G}FE | (B)E2 B7{FE}^DB, \
| EmEF GF/E/ | AmAB cB/A/ | EmBe B7e^d | f2 Eme ||
B \
| Eme2 B2 | Amc3 c | EmB[gG] [fF][eE] | (B)[e2E2] B7{fe}[^d^D]B \
| Eme2 B2 | Amc3 c | EmBe B7e^d | f2 Eme |]
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Re: [scots-l] research and a few questions
1. I remember reading somewhere , that there were Classicly trained violinists living, teaching, etc in and around Edinburgh in the mid to late 18th century. Can anyone confirm this with names , dates and possible stylistic idiosyncricies? Oh! and of course sources I may consult.Maybe its in your book Kate? It's in a heck of a lot of books. Try David Johnson's Scottish Fiddle Music in the Eighteenth Century or Music and Society in Lowland Scotland in the Eighteenth Century for two. Johnson has edited a number of their works over the years, most recently in the Musica Scotica series. Or for some of the (rather seedy) socio-political background to what they were doing there, look at my CD-ROM (which also reproduces many of their tunes). Some names (not just fiddlers, but also people who wrote fiddle music with classical tradition and forms behind them a lot of the time): Stabilini, Jarnovici, Schetky, the Reinagles, the Earl of Kellie, Domenico and Natali Corri, Alexander Munro, Alexander Baillie, James Oswald, William Macgibbon, Charles Maclean, and Rob Mackintosh. Their influence permeated the whole musical culture of Scotland as far as the most remote parts of the Highlands; there's no sharp line between art- music players and traditional fiddlers. Classically-trained players like Catriona Macdonald and Alasdair Fraser are not a 20th century aberration. (Conversely, Scottish trad briefly became the world music of Europe, 1780-1830ish, the same people being responsible for transmission in both directions). The most phenomenal example must have been Isaac Cooper, who composed a lot of straight-up traditional idiom dance music but could also teach more instruments than most people would think of learning in three lifetimes. - Jack Campin * 11 Third Street, Newtongrange, Midlothian EH22 4PU, Scotland tel 0131 660 4760 * fax 0870 055 4975 * http://www.purr.demon.co.uk/jack/ food intolerance data recipes, freeware Mac logic fonts, and Scottish music Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] re: A Fiddler's Book of Scottish Jigs
In a message dated 1/14/03 7:10:54 PM Eastern Standard Time, [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes: The tempo is determined by the dance, and you really have to honor it. If there are no dancers, you are a lot freer to play with the tempo, vary it, etc I'm heartened to read this! As a clarsair, I don't find myself in demand as a dance accompanist. The fiddlers can have it (more appropriate anyway, IMHO). So, when I play dance tunes, I'm honoring the melody, not an arbitrary metronome marking. --Cynthia Cathcart http://www.cynthiacathcart.net/
[scots-l] Tempos
There is an excellent article by Elke Baker on reel tempos at the SHSA website: http://www.shsa.org/music. She talks about many of the issues we have discussed here. At 05:21 PM 1/14/03 -0500, Sharon wrote: (snip) despite the fact that I am a judge for the SHSA Comps I agree with almost everything he says! Competitions are a real problem in the trad. music world. (snip) I agree with everything else you said, but here is 2 cents more: There are many people in the Scottish musical world who agree with you, and competing is not for them. But there are many many people who love the challenge of competing, and I think we should be careful about discounting them. If we have rules it is because we want the playing field to be even, and everything understood clearly. It is NOT because we get off on ordering people around. Many people use competitions as a balm to their egos, and it is dangerous to have comp rules that would allow the judges too much power. As a Teacher, I really like to see the student learn tunes and style. I Never insist that my students compete. It is always their decision. As a Judge, I hate to see all that work not recognized because only one person can get first prize. And too many people only see the prize and don't appreciate the sweat that went into all the competitors. As the Audience, I love to hear the instrument played, and occasionally see the drama when two really good people compete. Sue Richards
