Re: [scots-l] Oswald's English guittar (was Cumbernauld House)
Toby Rider wrote: re: http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/guittar.html and also at http://www.robmackillop.com/ Wow, these are some very nice photos. I can almost smell the wood. What a fascinating axe! I noticed that the two bass strings are not doubled, whereas all the other ones are. Do you know why they decided to set it up that way? As with the lute, orpharion etc. The question is more 'why do we have doubled basses now' on any instrument. The beats created by double bass strings are not pleasant, and lack the chorusing effect of double or treble course means and trebles - they just sound off-tune. Single basses are more than adequate, the thumb provides a firm pure sound of the correct volume. The basses should be made from catline (gut wound with a fine steel thread in it) or twisted brass wire, not the modern copper wound strings I use myself. But reproduction strings sets are from #40 to #80 a throw! Yes, the tuning mechanism is *totally* different. It actually seems like a logical way to do this. What were the downfalls of it? I'm wondering why this style of tuner never made it onto modern instruments. It was 'patented' by Preston around 1734 and it does seem incredibly robust - mine has been tuning away since around 1770 and still works like clockwork (which in engineering terms, it resembles!). Portugese guittaras and German waldzithers do still use these machines, but the Portugese put a big tuning knob on each of the 12 screws of their instrument, instead of a key which you have to remove and replace. The Germans use a grandfather clock key on harp-tuner size adjusters instead, and it's much easier to find those in a hurry. So do you think that's where the open tunings that American "old-time" players use originated from? I knew this was raise all of these questions in my mind. Too bad I didn't see any sound samples of this insturment. I think the open triad/hexchord tuning is so fundamental it could equally well have come from Africa as Europe. But I would guess yes, that the American folk banjo, dulcimer and slide guitar tunings can from German-Dutch-French-English-Scots-Irish influence (old cittern tunings) rather than the Arabic-Spanish side (which tends be tuning in fourths, the exact reverse of an open tuning). The oldest and most universal tuning in the world is octave and fifth, as it's the most mathematically pure tuning. It's fundamental to most Scottish music. From there it is a small step to add a major third, a minor third, or ('mountain minor') a fourth. Sound samples were linked somewhere! Here are some, one correctly Scottish (Bremner 1758): Tweedside - http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/1617/1617988.html and one which is just me doing a pastiche 'o'er the Border' variation in modern folk style, which I suspect may be the way the instrument was used informally, but Rob MacKillop finds too American/modern in manner: Border Marches - http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/1416/1416640.html I have one tune recorded, played on a modern instrument for comparison. This was before I acquired the guittar, Jack Campin sent me a transcription of a duet, on to one stave, for the 'Edinburgh Trained Bands March' from Bremner 1758. I worked out a single-handed soprano guitar arrangement from this, using a Tacoma Papoose, which has the same scale length as a guittar, but rather heavier single modern strings: ETBM - http://artists.mp3s.com/artist_song/900/900446.html However, the best thing to do is get Rob MacKillop's wonderful CD 'Flowers of the Forest' which is played on several different lutes, a Scottish mandour (tiny renaissance ukelele-scale lute!), Scottish cittern, and his Broderip guittar. This CD can change your view of where Scottish music came from, and what happened to it when the German hired-hand composers got hold of it in the 18th c, and what further damage was done by the piano, and then the accordion :-) David Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Oswald's English guittar (was Cumbernauld House)
>> >> >> Wow, how well do those bone pegs work? Are they subject to the same >> problems that the wooden pegs on fiddles are? > > Whoa! slow down... take a look at - > > http://www.maxwellplace.demon.co.uk/pandemonium/guittar.html > and also at > http://www.robmackillop.com/ Wow, these are some very nice photos. I can almost smell the wood. What a fascinating axe! I noticed that the two bass strings are not doubled, whereas all the other ones are. Do you know why they decided to set it up that way? > The bone string pins are at the *other end* of the instrument, the > tailpiece, and you loop the wire round them (I will shortly replace that > photo with the beautiful pins that Chris made for me). The tuner > mechanism is different from anything you will have seen apart from a > Portugese guitarra or German waldzither, Yes, the tuning mechanism is *totally* different. It actually seems like a logical way to do this. What were the downfalls of it? I'm wondering why this style of tuner never made it onto modern instruments. > Banjo and dobro players use the tuning all the time, however, so a book > of banjo chord shapes helps a long way to playing guittar or waldzither. So do you think that's where the open tunings that American "old-time" players use originated from? I knew this was raise all of these questions in my mind. Too bad I didn't see any sound samples of this insturment. -- Toby Rider ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "He either fears his fate too much, Or his deserts are small, That puts it not unto the touch To win or lose it all." - James Graham, Marquis of Montrose Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Navan
So they're kind of like a Gaelic version of the Manhattan Transfer :-) > No instruments, just voices. > > At 07:49 AM 1/22/03 -0800, you wrote: >> So from their website it appears that they have 4 voices and no >>instruments? Or did they hire some studio players in sit in on their >> sessions? > Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Navan
No instruments, just voices. At 07:49 AM 1/22/03 -0800, you wrote: So from their website it appears that they have 4 voices and no instruments? Or did they hire some studio players in sit in on their sessions? > I don't know whether they have been mentioned yet on this list, but a > new young group from Madison, Wisconsin, called "Navan" is well worth > listening to. Really tight harmonies and excellent singing. They have > one CD out. > > Sue Richards > > At 11:40 AM 1/21/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> > Slainte Mhath (from Cape Breton) makes some really >> > interesting and danceable music using pop/techno >> > fusion. They play fiddle, bagpipes, bodhran, >> > keyboards, flutes and more (and stepdance!). A nice >> > description of their style from their website: >> > (http://www.slaintemhath.com) >> >> Slainte Mhath is great. I love those guys (and girls). I've still got >>their first CD on constant rotation. They're definately on the right >> track I think. >> >> >> > As far as I can tell, thru logic and listening to many >> > musicians, the "secret" to making good fusion music is >> > to know traditional music inside and out. If you know >> > where it's coming from and what makes it unique, and >> > respect that, then you're more likely to understand >> > what will mix well with it. >> >> >> Not only knowing trad. music inside out, but you've also got to know >>whatever genres that make in into your "sound". >> >> >> >> >>Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To >> subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: >>http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Toby Rider ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "He either fears his fate too much, Or his deserts are small, That puts it not unto the touch To win or lose it all." - James Graham, Marquis of Montrose Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
Re: [scots-l] Navan
So from their website it appears that they have 4 voices and no instruments? Or did they hire some studio players in sit in on their sessions? > I don't know whether they have been mentioned yet on this list, but a > new young group from Madison, Wisconsin, called "Navan" is well worth > listening to. Really tight harmonies and excellent singing. They have > one CD out. > > Sue Richards > > At 11:40 AM 1/21/03 -0800, you wrote: > >> > Slainte Mhath (from Cape Breton) makes some really >> > interesting and danceable music using pop/techno >> > fusion. They play fiddle, bagpipes, bodhran, >> > keyboards, flutes and more (and stepdance!). A nice >> > description of their style from their website: >> > (http://www.slaintemhath.com) >> >> Slainte Mhath is great. I love those guys (and girls). I've still got >>their first CD on constant rotation. They're definately on the right >> track I think. >> >> >> > As far as I can tell, thru logic and listening to many >> > musicians, the "secret" to making good fusion music is >> > to know traditional music inside and out. If you know >> > where it's coming from and what makes it unique, and >> > respect that, then you're more likely to understand >> > what will mix well with it. >> >> >> Not only knowing trad. music inside out, but you've also got to know >>whatever genres that make in into your "sound". >> >> >> >> >>Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To >> subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: >>http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html -- Toby Rider ([EMAIL PROTECTED]) "He either fears his fate too much, Or his deserts are small, That puts it not unto the touch To win or lose it all." - James Graham, Marquis of Montrose Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html
[scots-l] Tune Id?
Hi, X:1 T:??? C:??? Q:1/4=200 M:4/4 L:1/8 R:reel? K:E Minor B,B, | G2 GG FE^DE | B,6 B,B, | E2F2G2A2 | (B4 B2) GA | B2cB A2 BA | G2 AG F2 GA | B2 EE GFE^D | E6 :| E^DEF G2 FG | AGFE ^D2 B,2 | E^DEF GFGA | B6 GA | B2 cB A2 BA | G2 AG F2 GA | B2 EE GFE^D | E6 :| Any idea? Thanks... Dominique R http://domren.free.fr Posted to Scots-L - The Traditional Scottish Music & Culture List - To subscribe/unsubscribe, point your browser to: http://www.tullochgorm.com/lists.html