Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Sunday 04 January 2004 20:43, William Anderson wrote: [snip] Special Interest Group is probably a better term :) agreed Install Days and similar events are definitely a good idea, but organising them can be a bitch. Perhaps linking with (semi-)professional LAN party organisers would be useful there, and could provide an interesting cross-pollination of membership and advocacy - increases awareness of Linux, Open Source, the LUG, etc and provides a platform for a LAN party co to advertise, and possibly pimp their own open source position if they have one. This sounds interesting, tell me more about this. -- Best Regards Willie Fleming ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
Willie wrote: On Sunday 04 January 2004 20:43, William Anderson wrote: [snip] Special Interest Group is probably a better term :) agreed Install Days and similar events are definitely a good idea, but organising them can be a bitch. Perhaps linking with (semi-)professional LAN party organisers would be useful there, and could provide an interesting cross-pollination of membership and advocacy - increases awareness of Linux, Open Source, the LUG, etc and provides a platform for a LAN party co to advertise, and possibly pimp their own open source position if they have one. This sounds interesting, tell me more about this. I think I've exhausted the topic given my knowledge about it - I was trying to stir up more ideas and conversation from others :) -- _ __/| ___ ___ __ _ When Microsoft Office is your only hammer, \`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb. -- Rob Pegoraro U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/ ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Saturday 03 January 2004 02:09, Rob Lazzurs wrote: snip Just IMHO, however I think you only have to have a look at the LUG through in Edinbugger to find out why this is a bad idea. Sorry for coming into this thread so late, I have been stuck on a windows machine and I have just finally edited my muttrc to my liking again (usually I use the most excellent evolution) Take care - RL Is Edlug currently tied up in commitee wars? I must try to get through to some more Edlug meetings, I enjoyed the couple that I did get to. If we do have a committee, it will take some thick-skinned and determined folk on that committee to keep it running right. Organising geeks is like herding cats (apologies to whoever I stole that line off). We all think we are bright enough to think we know better and we will all have differeent ideas n direction and emphasis of anything we choose to do. That doesnt mean we shouldnt have sub-groups ( I hesitate to call them committees) for those interested in advocacy or Installdays or whatever. I'd like to hear a list of suggestions for sub-groups if anyone has any thoughts. Whether those sub-groups have themselves any kind of mutually agreed formal structure would be up to them. However from this we could have a mutually recognised ScotLUG spokesperson on advocacy for example. Just thinking out loud, keep kicking it around and we'll see what falls out. -- Best Regards Willie Fleming ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
Willie wrote: [snip] If we do have a committee, it will take some thick-skinned and determined folk on that committee to keep it running right. Organising geeks is like herding cats (apologies to whoever I stole that line off). We all think we are bright enough to think we know better and we will all have differeent ideas n direction and emphasis of anything we choose to do. I agree. Trying to over-organise the lug is folly, but trying to expand the range of activities we do has merit. That doesnt mean we shouldnt have sub-groups ( I hesitate to call them committees) for those interested in advocacy or Installdays or whatever. I'd like to hear a list of suggestions for sub-groups if anyone has any thoughts. Special Interest Group is probably a better term :) Install Days and similar events are definitely a good idea, but organising them can be a bitch. Perhaps linking with (semi-)professional LAN party organisers would be useful there, and could provide an interesting cross-pollination of membership and advocacy - increases awareness of Linux, Open Source, the LUG, etc and provides a platform for a LAN party co to advertise, and possibly pimp their own open source position if they have one. -- _ __/| ___ ___ __ _ When Microsoft Office is your only hammer, \`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb. -- Rob Pegoraro U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/ ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Sat, 2003-12-13 at 23:27, ptb wrote: Don't get me wrong, SLUG has been fine in terms of individual members' achievements and help given but what has it done in say the last six months except survive? Pat It's easy to sit and heckle from the sidelines, isn't it? It seems it's a lot harder to actually come up with answers. Unfortunately it always seems to be the ones that go to one meeting every six months that make the most noise. If you have something helpful and constructive to say, we'd love to hear it. If, on the other hand, you have only criticism without suggestions, then this isn't really the place. Gordon. ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Sunday 14 December 2003 21:14, Ian Ruffell wrote: Don't get me wrong, SLUG has been fine in terms of individual members' achievements and help given but what has it done in say the last six months except survive? Don't knock the personal contacts, help given and expertise shared. In my experience, good advice, in a supportive forum, does more - and gets passed on further - than you might think. Even advice to read TFM is helpful if it's phrased tactfully ;-) This is maybe one area that we could improve on, how about a list of members interests / areas of expertise? It would provide a quick way of finding out who is who and what they do, also an opportunity to those members who are offering support or other services to make themselves known. Perhaps a section on the website with mini-bios of the usual suspects along with details of where they can be found (IRC, blog, website or on / under the table in the counting house). Dode ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
Just a couple of follow-ups. On the issue of PDAs, I believe MSPs get nice new shiny, officially-sanctioned Palms these days. Colin (Speirs) talked of the difficulties of short-term success. Sure - and that's true of so many places. BUT, frustrating as it is (and believe me I KNOW how frustrating it can be), whether its free software or anything else, we're here for the long-term (sustainability, call it what you will). On Saturday 13 December 2003 11:27 pm, ptb wrote: As an activity/interest group that can't even agree on having any need for a customarily-adequate para-bureaucratic committee component, Well, you can look at this in a couple of ways - the management of many open-source projects would be regarded as not-customarily-adequate, no? - it's a challenge, but non-hierarchical political activity is surely possible (I would say green parties in general are minimally-hierarchical in theory and tend to be non-hierarchical in practice) - a committee is not a magical solution in itself: if the membership isn't prepared to get out and do stuff, you're still getting nowhere fast SLUG would maybe feel out of place dealing with politicians who actually want to govern and are willing to face up to trying to do it. So maybe the ones who are happier with opposition jobs You can't tell me that John Swinney doesn't want to govern (if anything the SNP got criticized at the last election for being *too* managerialist); let alone Robin Harper or Tommy Sheridan. And I seem to remember the Tories governing for a few years not so long ago. (aren't all three MSPs mentioned and likewise the SSP ones 'List' as well?) As Willie says, that's the system: so are several of the LibDems and some of the Labourites (though given their lock on West-Central Scotland via first-past-the-post, not any from round here). It certainly *is* possible to get stuff done on a cross-party basis at Holyrood, and even the smaller parties had successes in the past parliament at a time when they were parties of one. Don't get me wrong, SLUG has been fine in terms of individual members' achievements and help given but what has it done in say the last six months except survive? Don't knock the personal contacts, help given and expertise shared. In my experience, good advice, in a supportive forum, does more - and gets passed on further - than you might think. Even advice to read TFM is helpful if it's phrased tactfully ;-) It's worth bearing in mind, too, that in general terms, the free/open source movement has made the kind of technical achievements, formed the wide networks and gained the kind of acceptance that radical parties (let alone more fringe groups) would give their back teeth for! Cheers, Ian -- Ian Ruffell Tel.: 0781 3101934 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Saturday 13 December 2003 15:28, ed wrote: I have no fondness for the Tories either. I only know she is a Psion user because I saw her use on on the Glasgow-Edinburgh train and since I also used a Psion, a 3a compred to her Psion5, I was aware of the difficulties Psion using politicos were having. However if you could convince her then, irrespective of her party, I'm sure she'd be a good advocate int he Parliament, yes , all joking and entirely justifiable prejudice aside, party labels have to be unimportant here. If they can be persuaded to argue in our favour, it doesn't really matter what party they represent. This isnt really a party issue and therefore, it might just be possible to get an honest debate out of it. If we can somehow persuade the politicians that a debate is necessary. And a cross-party consensus will carry more real weight (and far more likely to attract international attention) than a simple whipped majority. I doubt she is/was the only PDA-dependent MSP either. Of course its not only the MSPs that are hamstrung by this, its their support staff as well. Looks like the Civil Service Mentality is alive and well. Bet their pensions are safe though. And the head of dept will get his/her gong on retiral too. Don't get me started. Ooops, looks like I already have. There I have to take issue with you. Our pensions are now royally screwed as they have moved us from a final salary scheme to a fund scheme, like the ones failing in Private Industry, the folk who took the Equitable Life AVCs are as screwed as anyone else and there are still too many Civil Servants dependant on thinks like Family Credit to survive from one month to the next. We ain't all Sir Humphreys or Russel Hillhouse you know. OK OK I believe you. Sorry, a cheap jibe from a pensionless taxpayer. I was in wind-up mode. But I bet the bosses are still well looked after. cds -- Best Regards Willie Fleming ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
Colin McKinnon wrote: The three document management systems I've come across (apologies if I've overlooked someone here Julian) are all intensively Microsoft based. The serious contenders tend to run on a variety of platforms, i.e. Documentum ($500k+): Platforms Supported Windows NT Server 4.0 Windows 2000 Solaris 7 Solaris 8 AIX 4.3 HP-UX and Stellent: Operating Systems supported Microsoft Windows Sun Solaris Red Hat Linux Hewlett-Packard HP-UX IBM AIX Cheers Julian ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Saturday 13 December 2003 14:13, Martin Habets wrote: snip And with all the political talk I think we have found a perfect raison d'etre for the Scottish LUG (versus the Glasgow LUG). With SLUG we can have one interface to all of of Scottish politics, and we can all contact our local MSPs. sounds good -- you volunteering to do a skeleton letter we can all send? We'll need to do individual ones to those pols we want to contact directly. As a starter list I'd go for Patrick Harvey Green Nicola Sturgeon SNP Annabel Goldie Con We can stress the anti-globalisation aspect when we find someone in the SSP who wants to take this on. Anybody want to help me draft sensible letters to these folks? Or possibly more to the point, does anybody object to me/us contacting them in the name of SLUG? -- Best Regards Willie Fleming ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
Hallo all : - As an activity/interest group that can't even agree on having any need for a customarily-adequate para-bureaucratic committee component, SLUG would maybe feel out of place dealing with politicians who actually want to govern and are willing to face up to trying to do it. So maybe the ones who are happier with opposition jobs (aren't all three MSPs mentioned and likewise the SSP ones 'List' as well?) would indeed be suitably irrelevant? Not exactly building on strengths is it? Don't get me wrong, SLUG has been fine in terms of individual members' achievements and help given but what has it done in say the last six months except survive? Pat On Sat, 13 Dec 2003 22:15:23 + Willie [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: On Saturday 13 December 2003 14:13, Martin Habets wrote: snip And with all the political talk I think we have found a perfect raison d'etre for the Scottish LUG (versus the Glasgow LUG). With SLUG we can have one interface to all of of Scottish politics, and we can all contact our local MSPs. sounds good -- you volunteering to do a skeleton letter we can all send? We'll need to do individual ones to those pols we want to contact directly. As a starter list I'd go for Patrick HarveyGreen Nicola Sturgeon SNP Annabel GoldieCon We can stress the anti-globalisation aspect when we find someone in the SSP who wants to take this on. Anybody want to help me draft sensible letters to these folks? Or possibly more to the point, does anybody object to me/us contacting them in the name of SLUG? -- Best Regards Willie Fleming ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish -- Debian GNU/Linux 3.0r0 Sylpheed 0.7.4 are free software Free as in http://fsfeurope.org/ or http://www.fsf.org/ also http://www.linux-on-laptops.com/ http://www.ukcdr.org/ http://www.debian.org/doc/user-manuals ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Saturday 13 December 2003 23:27, ptb wrote: Hallo all : - As an activity/interest group that can't even agree on having any need for a customarily-adequate para-bureaucratic committee component, SLUG would maybe feel out of place dealing with politicians who actually want to govern and are willing to face up to trying to do it. So maybe the ones who are happier with opposition jobs (aren't all three MSPs mentioned and likewise the SSP ones 'List' as well?) would indeed be suitably irrelevant? Not exactly building on strengths is it? Not exactly clear what your point is here but I'm getting a hint of negativity, perhaps you would care to expand on this. Are these MSPs irrelevant because they are not new labour or lib dem? Why does whether they are 'List' or directly elected matter? we would expect to deal with members of all parties, not simply those mentioned. Why on earth should we feel out of place? Are our views of no import because as a self-selecting subset of Linux users in Scotland we have no formal structure? We're doomed to failure before we start, so why bother? So what do you propose then? Don't get me wrong, SLUG has been fine in terms of individual members' achievements and help given but what has it done in say the last six months except survive? A lot more than may appear obvious from the mailing list or the website. SLUG is its members so their individual achievements are to an extent shared by us all. A lot of good stuff on all sorts of levels wouldn't happen but for the friends people have made through SLUG meetings and IRC. A lot less than we could have achieved if there been more action on the mailing list or volunteers to organise something during the last six months. You should have told us you were bored with just surviving earlier. Since Ben Thorp kicked off the present discussion the board has never been busier. Bandwidth may not always equal quality but its good to talk. If you think we need a committee structure then go ahead and propose it, there may well be more support for this than is immediately obvious. But if you don't ask, you won't find out. -- Best Regards Willie Fleming ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
RE: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
Title: RE: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG Just for clarification: it's more a case of persuading folk like the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body to shift off MS; not to mention encouraging similar moves in the public sector at large. Pat talks about this (with text of parliamentary questions, etc.) on his website (www.patrickharviemsp.com). It's not so much getting politicians away from using Microsoft's products (although it could save a substantial amount) as getting them away from closed, secret, non-free document formats. I can foresee problems ahead when all those documents written in Word 95 suddenly aren't readable when Office 2005 comes out and support for older formats is dropped (not that Microsoft would do such a thing, would they?) As an IT person working in IT for the Scottish Executive I'm saying nothing. However I think your chances of getting anything done in the short term considering there has just been a massive Microsoft based OS roll-out are minimal to say the least. cds *** This email and any files transmitted with it are intended solely for the use of the individual or entity to whom they are addressed. *** ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 20:10, Ian Ruffell wrote: Just for clarification: it's more a case of persuading folk like the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body to shift off MS; not to mention encouraging similar moves in the public sector at large. Pat talks about this (with text of parliamentary questions, etc.) on his website (www.patrickharviemsp.com). It's not so much getting politicians away from using Microsoft's products (although it could save a substantial amount) as getting them away from closed, secret, non-free document formats. I can foresee problems ahead when all those documents written in Word 95 suddenly aren't readable when Office 2005 comes out and support for older formats is dropped (not that Microsoft would do such a thing, would they?) That's not to say that other parties are not interested: I also saw Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP make positive noises abour open source software recently. As Willie was saying, coalitions ... Well, using an openly published document format (really, even using .RTF would be a start) would benefit everyone, in all parties. Internally, the Green machines in Glasgow are all on various flavours of Debian at the moment (putting our technology where our mouth is). Can't answer for the Edinburgh mob, though. Argh! Not Slackware? I'm definitely not voting for you! Cheers, Gordon. ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Thursday 11 December 2003 10:03, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 20:10, Ian Ruffell wrote: Just for clarification: it's more a case of persuading folk like the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body to shift off MS; not to mention encouraging similar moves in the public sector at large. Pat talks about this (with text of parliamentary questions, etc.) on his website (www.patrickharviemsp.com). It's not so much getting politicians away from using Microsoft's products (although it could save a substantial amount) as getting them away from closed, secret, non-free document formats. I can foresee problems ahead when all those documents written in Word 95 suddenly aren't readable when Office 2005 comes out and support for older formats is dropped (not that Microsoft would do such a thing, would they?) Problem is, the UK govt seem to be keen on giving MASSIVE amounts of money to extrnal bodies to solve their problems (presumably the problems of *the external body*). The likes of Capita, IBM, Logicaetc. Does someone *really* think We're only going to be changing things this month - so why employ staff to fix our own problems when we can give someone else lots of money and blame them if it doesn't work. Is there some Machiavellian legislation preventing the civil service from providing an internal IT dept? After IBM dropped the ball, it seems like UK plc is now making overtones to Sun (http://www.theregister.co.uk/content/4/34440.html) about 'Open Source'. There's a company with a long history of involvement in Linux, that doesn't have it's own competing product range and agenda. Whoops! I suppose I shouldn't grumble - it might have been SCO! C. ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
TEST Sending to both Willie and list by means of auto reply Tony D In message [EMAIL PROTECTED], Willie [EMAIL PROTECTED] writes On Thursday 11 December 2003 10:03, Gordon JC Pearce wrote: On Wed, 2003-12-10 at 20:10, Ian Ruffell wrote: Did he now? I never got that msg which is kinda worrying.. Just for clarification: it's more a case of persuading folk like the Scottish Executive and the Scottish Parliament Corporate Body to shift off MS; not to mention encouraging similar moves in the public sector at large. Pat talks about this (with text of parliamentary questions, etc.) on his website (www.patrickharviemsp.com). I'll have a look at that It's not so much getting politicians away from using Microsoft's products (although it could save a substantial amount) as getting them away from closed, secret, non-free document formats. I can foresee problems ahead when all those documents written in Word 95 suddenly aren't readable when Office 2005 comes out and support for older formats is dropped (not that Microsoft would do such a thing, would they?) That's not to say that other parties are not interested: I also saw Nicola Sturgeon of the SNP make positive noises abour open source software recently. As Willie was saying, coalitions ... Ahemm, I may be able to claim a bit of credit there. One time last year was sitting across from Nichola and another of her SNP colleagues on the train. I bent their ears all the way back to Queen St on the benefits of Open Source. Well, using an openly published document format (really, even using .RTF would be a start) would benefit everyone, in all parties. Well politcs is the art of the possible so lets tackle something that could make a difference and may be attainable. I havent thought this one through thoroughly yet,(thats what you guys are for!) but could we make a realistic costed case for keeping a copy of all Scottish Executive documents in a format other than .doc? Personally I'd go for Open Office formats but ,yes .RTF would be a start. Storage has never been cheaper and it should be reasonably(!) simple to implement. Internally, the Green machines in Glasgow are all on various flavours of Debian at the moment (putting our technology where our mouth is). Can't answer for the Edinburgh mob, though. Argh! Not Slackware? I'm definitely not voting for you! Vote SNP then. -- Copyright 2003 by W. N. Dyer; all rights reserved. First class web hosting from 11 at http://oneandone.co.uk/xml/init?k_id=5075954 ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Thursday 11 December 2003 10:16 pm, ed wrote: As an IT person working for the Scottish Executive I obviously can't say anything about this but if an MSP were to ask the Executive when the last time they had an OS refresh, what OS it was and what consideration was given to Linux I do not believe the answers would give you any hope of replacing MS products real soon now. No indeed. I think the questions were focused on cost - and last time I looked at the answers (yes I am that sad), they were simply a bland statement of rather depressing fact. Ian -- Ian Ruffell Tel.: 0781 3101934 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
It's not so much getting politicians away from using Microsoft's products (although it could save a substantial amount) as getting them away from closed, secret, non-free document formats. Yeah, I don't dispute that open formats are a large issue. But a) saving money is not to be sniffed at, b) I am extremely skeptical about saving to an open(ish) default (RTF) happening in practice - esp. when many users respond to Save As with No, no, it's all too complicated. Periodic noises are made about RTF where I work and nah... There are also issues over upgrade cycle, no? I can foresee problems ahead when all those documents written in Word 95 suddenly aren't readable when Office 2005 comes out and support for older formats is dropped (not that Microsoft would do such a thing, would they?) Course not. Lovely people. I'm not going to say proprietary software = proprietary formats, but the temptation is always going to be there. Argh! Not Slackware? I'm definitely not voting for you! :-) Ian -- Ian Ruffell Tel.: 0781 3101934 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
William Anderson wrote: Colin McKinnon wrote: On Tuesday 09 Dec 2003 14:40, William Anderson wrote: Is it time perhaps to rename ourselves the Glasgow LUG? Also, the Scottish LUG could be reused as an umbrella organisation, perhaps uniting the other LUGs in Scotland to form a larger community ... [snip] I don't think there's any need to dismantle Scottish LUG; I suggested nothing of the sort. I suggested *renaming* scotlug to glasgow lug, and *reusing* the scotlug name to provide an umbrella LUG to help build stronger links between the LUG in glasgow with other LUGs in the country. I don't think there is merit in renaming the user group, changing the name won't make any difference to what we do, let's not start grasping at straws and instead do something positive to better the user group. Lots of very good suggestions have come about from Willie's original post. The last then we need is our web presence removed when we change name, the domain name (scotlug.org.uk) to become invalid for our uses and the IRC channel to die/move in such a way that people can't find us. Thanks, Allan ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG
On Wednesday 10 December 2003 12:01 pm, Willie wrote: Possibly it may evolve into 2 talks per month, one for beginners and one more advanced. Probably a good idea not to get trapped into a binary newbie/advanced (I know that's not quite what you're saying) - maybe a better way of looking at it is that there are a range of interests (and applications)? It would be nice if we could get a meeting with the Green party to see what we can do to assist Robin Harper. I dont always agree with all of what the Green Party say but thats politics, working with those whom you can agree with on some points to advance common interests. I think that's a very healthy point-of-view in general. But I'll probably drive to that meeting :-) Touché :-) ( preferably along the new bit of the M74) Always happy to have *that* discussion - but one for off-list or the pub! Cheers, Ian -- Ian Ruffell Tel.: 0781 3101934 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
[Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
Willie wrote: [snip] OK not everyone is near Glasgow and like it or not, whether we call ourselves the Scottish LUG we are effectively the Glasgow LUG. Although by all accounts a successful LAN party was held through in the mysterious east at the weekend. Is it time perhaps to rename ourselves the Glasgow LUG? Also, the Scottish LUG could be reused as an umbrella organisation, perhaps uniting the other LUGs in Scotland to form a larger community ... This could be an excellent way of getting LUGs to work together in a variety of ways, maybe encouraging other LUGs to be formed to cater for local communities where there is no LUG (Inverness? Oban? Ayr? Orkneys?) and would allow ourselves to refocus on the task of being a user group for Glasgow, and not the whole of Scotland. I personally have been humbled and astounded by the membership of our LUG, both by the amount of knowledge we all have as a whole, and in the friendly manner in which we (normally!) conduct ourselves. But as a community, I think it's fair to say we're not performing under the remit of embracing Linux (and other Open Source / Free Software) communities in and around Glasgow, and helping those who haven't the time or experience to get fully into Linux. To my knowledge, it's quite some time since an Install Day took place, and as Willie says, all we're really doing these days is meeting at the Counting House and drinking (not that that's a bad thing in and of itself!), so I think we should all take the time to have a think about the LUG, what each of us can contribute, and delurking if possible to have your say, and have your contribution made. Let's muck in! :) OK two suggestions -- non IRC folk, please consider joining in if at all possible. I suppose a mini HOWTO is called for here but for now excellent :) 1) get a client - mIRC is good for starters if you are just beginning cos it is a Win prog and effectively free for 30 days - I won't presume to suggest a Linux client but I'd be surprised if there isnt one installed by default with your distro. if not ... apt-get install xchat (or) apt-get install bitchx (or) apt-get install irssi http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=xchat (or) http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=bitchx (or) http://rpmfind.net/linux/rpm2html/search.php?query=irssi http://www.xchat.org/ (or) http://www.bitchx.com/ (or) http://irssi.org/ 2) point it at eu.freenode.net -- yes there _are_ alternatives, this will get you started. connecting to irc.scotlug.org.uk would be a better bet, imo, as a) it already points to freenode, and b) if we ever decide to move irc networks (to escape the curse of the rehub-mad lilo), it's a clean move to make. 3) join #scotlug /join #scotlug :) 4) Have a lot of fun -- and dont be scared to jump in with the boots on and ask for help, advice whatever. Absolutely :) -- _ __/| ___ ___ __ _ When Microsoft Office is your only hammer, \`O_o' / _ \/ -_) // / __/ _ \ pretty much everything begins to look like =(_ _)=/_//_/\__/\_,_/_/ \___/ a nail. Or a thumb. -- Rob Pegoraro U - Ack! Phttpt! Thhbbt! neuro at well dot com http://neuro.me.uk/ ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
On Tuesday 09 Dec 2003 14:40, William Anderson wrote: Is it time perhaps to rename ourselves the Glasgow LUG? Also, the Scottish LUG could be reused as an umbrella organisation, perhaps uniting the other LUGs in Scotland to form a larger community ... This could be an excellent way of getting LUGs to work together in a variety of ways, maybe encouraging other LUGs to be formed to cater for local communities where there is no LUG (Inverness? Oban? Ayr? Orkneys?) and would allow ourselves to refocus on the task of being a user group for Glasgow, and not the whole of Scotland. But then we would be GLUG? Which in itself, sounds like a bunch of pissheads(We at least have to keep up the facade of being sensible) I have been to a few Meetings, which initially were held at Borders, which suited me as I worked in town, and usually worked late.(why was Borders finished with?, I always thought it was a good neutral place) Now with a different job, i finish at 5, and normally dont fancy hanging around town for 2 1/2 hours before the meeting, which explains why I havn't been to one for a few years. Also being customer facing, and having a 9am appointment on Firdays I dont like to drink the night before, and I its against my irishness to go into a pub and not drink :) -- Phil Deane http://www.MiracleExpress.force9.co.uk ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
On Tuesday 09 December 2003 3:58 pm, Ben Thorp wrote: Feb - Debate - will Linux be ready for the desktop in 2004 bits snipped Tony has advised that he doesn't think that a debate is a good idea, so we can change that one. I don't know about a debate as such, but it would be handy to have a discussion about the prospects and obstacles on this one. OK, this is a bit selfish, since I find myself doing the advocate thing within my organisation from time to time. Part of what I would be interested in is software-related (e.g. my major concern still is the Access replacement - both Rekall and Kexio are getting there, perhaps) but also to do with institutions and processes. I would like the name GLUG myself, but that possibly says more about me than anything else ;-) The speaker meetings are what would interest me the most. At which point I should acknowledge that I've never actually made it to a meeting ;-) Most recently it's because it clashes with Glasgow meetings of the Green Party ... (Ahem, minor plug: the Greens have a very pro-open source policy; the Green MSP for Glasgow, Patrick Harvie, is a Linux user and has been prodding the Executive to shift away from Microsoft.) Ian -- Ian Ruffell Tel.: 0781 3101934 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
Ian Ruffell wrote: (e.g. my major concern still is the Access replacement - both Rekall and Kexio are getting there, perhaps) but also to do with institutions and processes. Ian, What's Kexio? I'm guessing it's a tyop since google only returns 9 results, none of which seem relevant or maybe google is just having a bad day. Anyway, can you supply a link and/or correct the typo? I'd have a vague (non-commercial) interest in the program if it were free[1] (which Rekall isn't). BTW: Is it just me or is the reply-to field not being set correctly on the mailing list? Thanks, Allan [1] Free as in however you'd like to define it. -- A bad random number generator: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 4.33e+67, 1, 1, 1... ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 09 December 2003 19:40, Allan Whiteford wrote: Ian Ruffell wrote: (e.g. my major concern still is the Access replacement - both Rekall and Kexio are getting there, perhaps) but also to do with institutions and processes. Ian, What's Kexio? I'm guessing it's a tyop since google only returns 9 results, none of which seem relevant or maybe google is just having a bad day. Anyway, can you supply a link and/or correct the typo? I'd have a vague (non-commercial) interest in the program if it were free[1] (which Rekall isn't). I believe he was meaning Kexi, from http://www.koffice.org/kexi/ BTW: Is it just me or is the reply-to field not being set correctly on the mailing list? Not sure, I use 'Reply to mailing list' in kmail. I'll have another look at the mailman options when I get into work. Thanks, Allan Regards Kyle [1] Free as in however you'd like to define it. -- A bad random number generator: 1, 1, 1, 1, 1, 4.33e+67, 1, 1, 1... ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/1kGxl4cZwpbv7iIRAgLqAJ94YSNne8C59tkmAQ391BkuEAaZdACfTkH9 4PLewKJYZ+p4Srbm7oG0npI= =5wDP -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 On Tuesday 09 December 2003 19:03, Phil Deane wrote: On Tuesday 09 Dec 2003 14:40, William Anderson wrote: Is it time perhaps to rename ourselves the Glasgow LUG? Also, the Scottish LUG could be reused as an umbrella organisation, perhaps uniting the other LUGs in Scotland to form a larger community ... This could be an excellent way of getting LUGs to work together in a variety of ways, maybe encouraging other LUGs to be formed to cater for local communities where there is no LUG (Inverness? Oban? Ayr? Orkneys?) and would allow ourselves to refocus on the task of being a user group for Glasgow, and not the whole of Scotland. But then we would be GLUG? Which in itself, sounds like a bunch of pissheads(We at least have to keep up the facade of being sensible) Maybe GlasLUG then? I dunno, maybe it sounds silly. We've referred to the group as ScotLUG for a long time, stick with the pattern? I have been to a few Meetings, which initially were held at Borders, which suited me as I worked in town, and usually worked late.(why was Borders finished with?, I always thought it was a good neutral place) If I recall correctly, Borders ran out of space and an alternative venue was sought. Strathclyde Uni had space, and we were allowed to use it. Now with a different job, i finish at 5, and normally dont fancy hanging around town for 2 1/2 hours before the meeting, which explains why I havn't been to one for a few years. Also being customer facing, and having a 9am appointment on Firdays I dont like to drink the night before, and I its against my irishness to go into a pub and not drink :) -- Phil Deane http://www.MiracleExpress.force9.co.uk Regards Kyle ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.2.3 (GNU/Linux) iD8DBQE/1kKDl4cZwpbv7iIRAtiXAJ4tw0AoCc7U4u1hn3QElQgYsWY8RACfbi6x smNaHzVqKXhE9ZpBfyhn5Sw= =FTrZ -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
On Tuesday 09 December 2003 9:42 pm, Kyle Gordon wrote: I believe he was meaning Kexi, from http://www.koffice.org/kexi/ Yes, ahem, sorry. My bad. (There's a [non-free] Latin grammar program called Flexio which is on my mind at the moment for various reasons: one of my copious-free-time projects is getting a GPL'ed Latin and Greek grammar training program off the ground [using Qt].) Ian -- Ian Ruffell Tel.: 0781 3101934 Email: [EMAIL PROTECTED] ___ Scottish mailing list [EMAIL PROTECTED] http://mailman.lug.org.uk/mailman/listinfo/scottish
Re: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting)
Ben Thorp wrote: Unfortunately I don't have access to IRC from work, and I'm not always free in the evening :o( However, I will try and attend more. I posted a topic with some suggestions for talks/topics for the next 6 months on the webpage. It went something like this: Jan - Bring your favourite Linux Book Feb - Debate - will Linux be ready for the desktop in 2004 Mar - Individual speaker Apr - Easter pub event/quiz May - Installing Linux on laptops (individual speaker) Jun - Individual speaker Tony has advised that he doesn't think that a debate is a good idea, so we can change that one. But we've had two people offer talks - 1 on installing and running Smootwall, the other on installing Linux for beginners. Plus Tony has offered to do a beginners corner each month. I think this sounds like a good plan. Maybe a question and answer session like before, as we've done this already and it often leads to a good chitchat about linux and computing in general. It would be nice to get all this confirmed soonish - can someone who listens here and is on IRC regularly pass it on there, and maybe we can get this all sorted before year-end, and not have to worry for 6 months!?! The IRC fans have seen this :-) Another alternative would be to specify an IRC meeting time so that all the IRC bods, plus anyone else who has access but doesn't always sit on IRC (like me) can attend and talk it over. Shouldn't take more than 30-60 minutes. We recently did a similar thing on the Nixhelp network, so that the admins/ops etc could discuss things at a central point in time. It proved to be extremely useful, and everyone went away feeling positive. I'm not sure how to best go about this kind of meeting, but it could prove useful in the long run. On the other hand, email is a pretty instantaneous method of communication, it just needs people to be at their email client all the time :-p It would be good for different folks to offer to do a month - not necessarily give a talk or anything, but just to take control, and make sure it all happens smoothly - for instance, someone who has a Linux book, who is happy to just bring it in January, and say This is my favourite Linux book because for 2 minutes would be a start. Also, sounds good, although requires some formality, which from previous situations some people seem to be opposed to. Maybe they will warm to the rotational style of organising, preventing any one person from leading the way. I'd be happy to try and sort something out. (But be warned, my public speaking skills are terrible :-p) I believe we have a really good thing in our LUG, but that we need to give it a little TLC. True. Every little bit helps Ben Thorp (PS - whats with the mailing list - keep getting funny reply-to addresses?) No idea :-p Regards Kyle William Anderson [EMAIL PROTECTED]To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Sent by:cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]Subject: [Scottish] The Future of the LUG (was: Re: Next Meeting) .lug.org.uk 09-12-03 14:40 Willie wrote: [snip] OK not everyone is near Glasgow and like it or not, whether we call ourselves the Scottish LUG we are effectively the Glasgow LUG. Although by all accounts a successful LAN party was held through in the mysterious east at the weekend. Is it time perhaps to rename ourselves the Glasgow LUG? Also, the Scottish LUG could be reused as an umbrella organisation, perhaps uniting the other LUGs in Scotland to form a larger community ... This could be an excellent way of getting LUGs to work together in a variety of ways, maybe encouraging other LUGs to be formed to cater for local communities where there is no LUG (Inverness? Oban? Ayr? Orkneys?) and would allow ourselves to refocus on the task of being a user group for Glasgow, and not the whole of Scotland. I personally have been humbled and astounded by the membership of our LUG, both by the amount of knowledge we all have as a whole, and in the friendly manner in which we (normally!) conduct ourselves. But as a community, I think it's fair to say we're not performing under the remit of embracing Linux (and other Open Source / Free Software) communities in and around Glasgow, and helping those who haven't the time or experience to get fully into Linux. To my knowledge, it's quite some time since an Install Day took place, and as Willie says, all we're really doing these days is meeting at the Counting House and drinking (not that that's a bad thing in and of itself!), so I think we should all take the time to have a think about the LUG, what each of us can contribute, and delurking if possible to have your say, and have your contribution made. Let's muck in! :) OK two suggestions -- non IRC folk
