Re: [SMW-devel] {{#ask}}
Any idea how to add page and wiki-meta data to SMW? The problem is, by
simply adding further special properties (last modified date, creation
date, etc.) it seems to clutter the property namespace... Well, doing
the implementation is not trivial either, but heck :)
Cheers,
denny
Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
I use DPL for techpresentations.org http://techpresentations.org but
only because it has access to page meta-data (in my case page creation
dates). I wasn't impressed with DPL's approach and prefer SMW approach
which is about semantic data storage.
Sergey
On Nov 28, 2007 10:52 AM, Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, I am THRILLED that this is coming down the pipe.
Sergey, If you're planning to do something crazy, I suggest checking
out DPL and shamelessplugRegExParserFunctions/shamelessplug.
Combining {{#ask}} with {{#dpl}} and {{#regex}} can produce some very
neat combinations. Also, I'm interested to see what you come up with
in the way of {{#ask}} queries.
-- Jim
On Nov 27, 2007 5:04 PM, Sergey Chernyshev
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perfect - it works great for what I was planning to use it for!
Now almost
no barriers are there ;)
Sergey
On Nov 27, 2007 4:43 PM, Markus Krötzsch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
On Dienstag, 27. November 2007, Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
WOW! Markus, this is great present for being back from
vacation! ;) I'll
test it on my instances as soon as I'll get some time with
computer
tomorrow.
Great, hope you like it. Surprisingly, most of the work had to
go into
modifying Special:Ask to allow linking to queries using
internal links,
and
into supporting the new separation of printout requests and
queries (which
also makes way for some more presents). I had to adopt the
Special:ask
interface a little to account for this. I will drop another
short note
about
recent changes and then be offline for a few days. I guess RC3
would be in
order after this.
Markus
Sergey
On Nov 23, 2007 4:01 PM, Markus Krötzsch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
And another note: {{#ask}} is in SVN (in a first version).
Working example query:
{{#ask: [[Category:Country]] [[borders::Nigeria]] |
?population|
?area#km² = ''Size''|
format=list|
limit = 3|
link=all|
intro=bTest/b_|
}}
Moreover, it is now of course possible to use templates and
their
params
rather freely in {{#ask}}. Actually even some very
unreasonable things
work,
but many cool things should also be possible. One real
issue might be
that uninitiated users might nest {{#ask}} in order to emulate
q-subqueries, even though the latter are much more
efficient and
complete. Of course nesting sometimes is desirable:
{{#ask:
[[Category:Country]]
[[population::{{#ask:headers=hide|?Population|[[Uganda]]}}
]] |
sort=population|
?population
}}
This indeed works now.
Here is what should hopefully work for #ask on SVN:
* all printout formats other than debug (which still
gives some
HTML),
* all known parameters (though some now are more flexible
since you
can
use
wiki-markup as values),
* printout requests with the syntax ? property#unit = label,
* basic queries, nested queries, value ranges, wildcards,
and yet
* ask should work as it did before (I hope).
Here is what certainly does not work:
* links to further results don't work in wikitext (we need
another
URL-scheme
for that, but external links may be my first fix),
* printouts of Categories do not work via ? Category yet,
* disjunctions in queries obviously do not work yet, since
| is
already
taken in templates (Sergey suggested a solution that would
require
queries to
be the last #ask-parameter, but we may even get around this by
providing
an
alternative syntax for ||),
* a query with limit 0 might show a broken further results
link,
* templated and embedded printers may pull annotations into
the
article
where
the
Re: [SMW-devel] {{#ask}}
I don't think doing the implementation would really be that hard.
There would need to be a refreshMetaSemantics.php maintenance
script, and some hooks going into creating and saving pages and
maybe some other tasks like viewing. It should probably only keep
metadata on pages set to have evaluated annotations as defined in
$smwgNamespacesWithSemanticLinks. If implemented in the core, there
should be a global settings option so keeping this information can be
turned on or off. But I could just as easily see this as a SMW
extension, and it might be better that way.
Either the special properties would need to be somewhat specific to
keep from clashing (page last modified on, page created on, page
edited by, number of page views, number of page edits), or users
should be allowed to specify what the property namespaces should be.
Users should also be allowed to customize what metadata gets saved,
because if they don't care about storing how many times a page is
viewed, they won't want the extra database hit to update that
semantic bit of data every time a page is viewed.
I think have a pretty clear idea of how it could be done,
unfortunately I probably wouldn't be able to do an implementation
until late December. So if nobody else does one by then, feel free
hit me up and remind me, because it's actually something I kind of
want for myself. Lately I've been thinking of other possible
automatically added semantic data, too, like a user ratings system
extension that works with SMW.
--Audra
On Nov 29, 2007, at 8:08 AM, Denny Vrandečić wrote:
Any idea how to add page and wiki-meta data to SMW? The problem is, by
simply adding further special properties (last modified date, creation
date, etc.) it seems to clutter the property namespace... Well, doing
the implementation is not trivial either, but heck :)
Cheers,
denny
Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
I use DPL for techpresentations.org http://techpresentations.org
but
only because it has access to page meta-data (in my case page
creation
dates). I wasn't impressed with DPL's approach and prefer SMW
approach
which is about semantic data storage.
Sergey
On Nov 28, 2007 10:52 AM, Jim Wilson [EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Of course, I am THRILLED that this is coming down the pipe.
Sergey, If you're planning to do something crazy, I suggest
checking
out DPL and shamelessplugRegExParserFunctions/shamelessplug.
Combining {{#ask}} with {{#dpl}} and {{#regex}} can produce
some very
neat combinations. Also, I'm interested to see what you come
up with
in the way of {{#ask}} queries.
-- Jim
On Nov 27, 2007 5:04 PM, Sergey Chernyshev
[EMAIL PROTECTED]
mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Perfect - it works great for what I was planning to use it for!
Now almost
no barriers are there ;)
Sergey
On Nov 27, 2007 4:43 PM, Markus Krötzsch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
On Dienstag, 27. November 2007, Sergey Chernyshev wrote:
WOW! Markus, this is great present for being back from
vacation! ;) I'll
test it on my instances as soon as I'll get some time with
computer
tomorrow.
Great, hope you like it. Surprisingly, most of the work had to
go into
modifying Special:Ask to allow linking to queries using
internal links,
and
into supporting the new separation of printout requests and
queries (which
also makes way for some more presents). I had to adopt the
Special:ask
interface a little to account for this. I will drop another
short note
about
recent changes and then be offline for a few days. I guess RC3
would be in
order after this.
Markus
Sergey
On Nov 23, 2007 4:01 PM, Markus Krötzsch
[EMAIL PROTECTED] mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]
wrote:
And another note: {{#ask}} is in SVN (in a first version).
Working example query:
{{#ask: [[Category:Country]] [[borders::Nigeria]] |
?population|
?area#km² = ''Size''|
format=list|
limit = 3|
link=all|
intro=bTest/b_|
}}
Moreover, it is now of course possible to use templates and
their
params
rather freely in {{#ask}}. Actually even some very
unreasonable things
work,
but many cool things should also be possible. One real
issue might be
that uninitiated users might nest {{#ask}} in order to emulate
q-subqueries, even though the latter are much more
efficient and
complete. Of course nesting sometimes is desirable:
{{#ask:
[[Category:Country]]
[[population::{{#ask:headers=hide|?Population|[[Uganda]]}}
]] |
sort=population|
?population
}}
This indeed works now.
Here is what should hopefully work for #ask on SVN:
* all printout formats other than debug (which still
gives some
HTML),
* all known parameters (though some now are more flexible
since you
can
use
wiki-markup as values),
* printout
Re: [SMW-devel] {{#ask}}
Denny Vrandečić wrote:
Any idea how to add page and wiki-meta data to SMW? The problem is, by
simply adding further special properties (last modified date, creation
date, etc.) it seems to clutter the property namespace... Well, doing
the implementation is not trivial either, but heck :)
Perhaps a special virtual namespace, e.g. [[ArticleMetaProperty:Last
modified date]] ?
The SMW query code would notice this virtual namespace and retrieve the
metadata. For extensibility, it could call back into custom code that
gets a particular metadatum property; though appending extra SQL code
seems very fragile. And doing this really ties SMW into MediaWiki
database internals.
Some of the names you want to query on are in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Variable, like
{{REVISIONTIMESTAMP}}. But this missing things like username who last
modified, page size, etc.
Hard to do, hard to maintain, hard to extend, but it would be very useful.
--
=S
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[SMW-devel] Querying Article META-DATA (Was: {{#ask}})
Actually, since we're talking about querying different sources - I wonder if
adding such external sources for data through virtual namespaces would be a
way to extand data source? I had an idea to coupling SMW-based wiki with
some external source of information - this might be a solution.
Sergey
On Nov 29, 2007 5:10 PM, S Page [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote:
Denny Vrandečić wrote:
Any idea how to add page and wiki-meta data to SMW? The problem is, by
simply adding further special properties (last modified date, creation
date, etc.) it seems to clutter the property namespace... Well, doing
the implementation is not trivial either, but heck :)
Perhaps a special virtual namespace, e.g. [[ArticleMetaProperty:Last
modified date]] ?
The SMW query code would notice this virtual namespace and retrieve the
metadata. For extensibility, it could call back into custom code that
gets a particular metadatum property; though appending extra SQL code
seems very fragile. And doing this really ties SMW into MediaWiki
database internals.
Some of the names you want to query on are in
http://meta.wikimedia.org/wiki/Help:Variable, like
{{REVISIONTIMESTAMP}}. But this missing things like username who last
modified, page size, etc.
Hard to do, hard to maintain, hard to extend, but it would be very useful.
--
=S
-
SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper
from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future.
http://altfarm.mediaplex.com/ad/ck/8857-50307-18918-4
___
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--
Sergey Chernyshev
http://www.sergeychernyshev.com/
-
SF.Net email is sponsored by: The Future of Linux Business White Paper
from Novell. From the desktop to the data center, Linux is going
mainstream. Let it simplify your IT future.
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