Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[Jerry Vonau]

On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 16:43 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 01:17:23AM -0500, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> > On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 15:33 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> > > On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 12:19:30AM -0500, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> > > > On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 09:51 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:16 AM, James Cameron  
> > > > > wrote:
> > > > > > On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > > > > >> Just noticed that on
> > > > > >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
> > > > > >> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
> > > > > >>
> > > > > >> Is this correct?
> > > > > >
> > > > > > What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
> > > > > > every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
> > > > > > on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
> > > > > > includes the template.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > The template edits that led to this are here:
> > > > > >
> > > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
> > > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
> > > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Thanks for the links. Makes it clearer.
> > > > > 
> > > > > >> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
> > > > > >> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
> > > > > >> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
> > > > > > become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
> > > > > > stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.
> > > > > >
> > > > > > I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> > > > > > version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> > > > > > ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate 
> > > > > > finalisation
> > > > > > of XSCE.
> > > > > >
> > > > > 
> > > > > Correct, but as it is represented now, XS will become XSCE, which is
> > > > > incorrect. As a customer, I consider XS and XSCE to be two different
> > > > > products. The XS is a product from OLPC. XSCE is a product (not
> > > > > production ready, but still a product) from the "community" (double
> > > > > quotes intended). Although the XSCE may very well be a fork of the XS,
> > > > > it has its own specs and a set of developers working on it. I am one
> > > > > of the few who use XSCE on a 1.75 in one of my projects. I also use XS
> > > > > 0.7 in three other projects. My reasonings for choosing one over the
> > > > > other are distinct. So, I do not appreciate the confusion.
> > > > > 
> > > > > Mixing the two is misleading. XS 0.7 may very well be end of the line,
> > > > > or there may be a 0.8, but that's up to OLPC to decide, and not for
> > > > > XSCE to usurp. After all, AU has a server. 
> > > > 
> > > > As the developer of that AU version, lots of my code and ideas when on
> > > > to become what is XS-0.7 thanks to dsd. Still think imitation is the
> > > > highest form of flattery.
> > > 
> > > Indeed.
> > > 
> > > > 
> > > > >  So does Nepal. So does
> > > > > Uruguay. So does Activity Central. We don't see those listed on the
> > > > > template now, do we? If this was out of a misunderstanding, it needs
> > > > > to be corrected. If this injection was deliberate, then it was foolish
> > > > > at best.
> > > > > 
> > > > > It's a shame how much obfuscation has creeped into this space. Let's
> > > > > be clear about what the XS is and what the XSCE is and move on.
> > > > > 
> > > > 
> > > > Yes, lets be clear here, is OLPC going to maintain 0.7 going forward? I
> > > > asking if OLPC is going to maintain their forked ejabberd rpm and not
> > > > rely on exclude=ejabberd in the yum repo files?
> > > 
> > > There are no plans at the moment for OLPC to develop and release
> > > xs-0.8, but this may change if a deployment comes to us with a need.
> > > 
> > 
> > That doesn't answer the question is OLPC going to maintain their already
> > forked rpm going forward? It's blocking a EPEL update[1], not that it's
> > a security update but should one come down the pipe, as a system
> > administrator I'd like re-assurance that I can run the latest fixed
> > code. Hate to think that no new updates are available until some other
> > deployment needs something. This is also blocking XS on CentOS-6.4[2] as
> > the wrong version of ejabberd gets installed.
> 
> I can't find any ticket on dev.laptop.org that mentions this, can you?
> 

Just discovered while reviewing the CentOS-6.4 install[2] after the
groupinstall issue was fixed. You want to file this bug or shall I?

Jerry

> > 
> > > That there is a deployment contributing to 

[Server-devel] config.php

[Tony Anderson]

On 08/06/2013 08:46 AM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

>Naturally, Moodle itself is installed as part of XS-0.7. This installs a
>PostgreSQL backup of Moodle content (courses). It also moved the Moodle
>data to /library.
>This was a mistake in the XS implementation. Data directories which can
>grow
>with use should be in /library not in the root partition. This is the
>change in
>config.php.
>

yup, good catch. Got a copy of that also?


As far as I can remember, the only change is:

$CFG->dataroot  = '/library/moodle';

Tony


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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25

[Tony Anderson]

Hi,

My purpose is to illustrate the technique. Frankly, since each script is 
intended

to install one package or content module, they change to meet the specific
requirement.

For example, xc-moodle in a repository should probably install a simple 
example
of a Moodle course since the one I use at the deployment contains some 
content

which is not free to be distributed.

Tony

On 08/06/2013 08:36 AM, Jerry Vonau wrote:

Yes it would then I could stop asking for source code for an open source
project.


>Currently, I am using this technique to install the courseware for the
>Learn
>activity, Django, the library, wiki4schools, mediawiki, wiktionary, the
>beginnings of a learning management system, and the beginnings of an
>itembank of questions. I hope to have an install script for IIAB
>(probably one for the front end and one or more for the content).
>

XSCE is working towards the same goals.


>Tony
>
>

Jerry






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Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 01:17:23AM -0500, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 15:33 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> > On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 12:19:30AM -0500, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> > > On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 09:51 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
> > > > > On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > > > >> Just noticed that on
> > > > >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
> > > > >> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
> > > > >>
> > > > >> Is this correct?
> > > > >
> > > > > What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
> > > > > every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
> > > > > on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
> > > > > includes the template.
> > > > >
> > > > > The template edits that led to this are here:
> > > > >
> > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
> > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
> > > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Thanks for the links. Makes it clearer.
> > > > 
> > > > >> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
> > > > >> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
> > > > >> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
> > > > > become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
> > > > > stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.
> > > > >
> > > > > I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> > > > > version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> > > > > ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
> > > > > of XSCE.
> > > > >
> > > > 
> > > > Correct, but as it is represented now, XS will become XSCE, which is
> > > > incorrect. As a customer, I consider XS and XSCE to be two different
> > > > products. The XS is a product from OLPC. XSCE is a product (not
> > > > production ready, but still a product) from the "community" (double
> > > > quotes intended). Although the XSCE may very well be a fork of the XS,
> > > > it has its own specs and a set of developers working on it. I am one
> > > > of the few who use XSCE on a 1.75 in one of my projects. I also use XS
> > > > 0.7 in three other projects. My reasonings for choosing one over the
> > > > other are distinct. So, I do not appreciate the confusion.
> > > > 
> > > > Mixing the two is misleading. XS 0.7 may very well be end of the line,
> > > > or there may be a 0.8, but that's up to OLPC to decide, and not for
> > > > XSCE to usurp. After all, AU has a server. 
> > > 
> > > As the developer of that AU version, lots of my code and ideas when on
> > > to become what is XS-0.7 thanks to dsd. Still think imitation is the
> > > highest form of flattery.
> > 
> > Indeed.
> > 
> > > 
> > > >  So does Nepal. So does
> > > > Uruguay. So does Activity Central. We don't see those listed on the
> > > > template now, do we? If this was out of a misunderstanding, it needs
> > > > to be corrected. If this injection was deliberate, then it was foolish
> > > > at best.
> > > > 
> > > > It's a shame how much obfuscation has creeped into this space. Let's
> > > > be clear about what the XS is and what the XSCE is and move on.
> > > > 
> > > 
> > > Yes, lets be clear here, is OLPC going to maintain 0.7 going forward? I
> > > asking if OLPC is going to maintain their forked ejabberd rpm and not
> > > rely on exclude=ejabberd in the yum repo files?
> > 
> > There are no plans at the moment for OLPC to develop and release
> > xs-0.8, but this may change if a deployment comes to us with a need.
> > 
> 
> That doesn't answer the question is OLPC going to maintain their already
> forked rpm going forward? It's blocking a EPEL update[1], not that it's
> a security update but should one come down the pipe, as a system
> administrator I'd like re-assurance that I can run the latest fixed
> code. Hate to think that no new updates are available until some other
> deployment needs something. This is also blocking XS on CentOS-6.4[2] as
> the wrong version of ejabberd gets installed.

I can't find any ticket on dev.laptop.org that mentions this, can you?

> 
> > That there is a deployment contributing to XSCE is certainly good to
> > keep in mind and recognise.  There may be more versions of XSCE
> > released than XS, but that's not a technical problem.
> > 
> 
> No a problem at all, shows the XSCE crew are actively working towards
> their goals and listening to future potential users and reacting.
> 
> Jerry
> 
> > > This there going to be a 0.8? When? and by who? We don't need to
> > > duplicate effort

Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25

[Jerry Vonau]

On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 08:23 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> On 08/06/2013 05:40 AM, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> > I'd be interested in the contents of the xs-moodle files or is that an
> > example? Sounds like 20-xc-generic looks for xc-* directories and files
> > in those directories to execute, need to see the code to be sure on what
> > you require.
> The install file for Moodle is
> 
>   cd "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/XC
> if [ -f xc-moodle/xc-moodle-install ]; then
>  log notice "Installing moodle"
>  cd xc-moodle
>  if bash xc-moodle-install; then
>  log notice "moodle installed successfully"
>  else
>  log notice "moodle install failed with code $?"
>  error_beep
>  fi
> else
>  log notice 'moodle not found'
>  error_beep
> 
> fi
> 
> The xc-moodle-install file is:
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> 
> #take backup from existing moodle
> #su - postgres
> #pg_dump moodle-xs > moodle-xs.sql
> 
> #stop httpd
> /etc/init.d/httpd stop
> 
> #copy the moodle folder to /library
> rm -rf /library/moodle
> cp -r moodle /library/moodle
> chown -R apache:apache /library/moodle
> 
> #restore the moodle-xs.sql backup of the database
> psql -d moodle-xs -f moodle-xs.sql
> #replace config.php file in /var/www/moodle/web and update 
> /etc/httpd/conf.d/moodle.conf (if necessary)
> cp config.php /var/www/moodle/web
> cp moodle.conf /etc/httpd/conf.d
> 
> #start httpd
> /etc/init.d/httpd start
> 
> Naturally, Moodle itself is installed as part of XS-0.7. This installs a 
> PostgreSQL backup of Moodle content (courses). It also moved the Moodle 
> data to /library.
> This was a mistake in the XS implementation. Data directories which can 
> grow
> with use should be in /library not in the root partition. This is the 
> change in
> config.php.
> 

yup, good catch. Got a copy of that also?

> The essence of this technique is that 20-xc-generic needs to be 
> installed by xo-custom, xs-setup, or in the build. Once that is 
> installed, a deployment can
> perform any additional installations of content or packages via xc-install.
> 
> It would probably be useful to have a library of these optional 
> installations.
> 

Yes it would then I could stop asking for source code for an open source
project.

> Currently, I am using this technique to install the courseware for the 
> Learn
> activity, Django, the library, wiki4schools, mediawiki, wiktionary, the 
> beginnings of a learning management system, and the beginnings of an 
> itembank of questions. I hope to have an install script for IIAB 
> (probably one for the front end and one or more for the content).
> 

XSCE is working towards the same goals.

> Tony
> 
> 

Jerry


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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 4

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 07:58:06AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> On 08/06/2013 05:39 AM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:
> >Tony, you have quoted me and misunderstand my use of the word
> >"unstable".  It means something that continues to change, that
> >develops, in response to user input in the form of enhancements and
> >bug fixes.  I would like to see continued change and development of
> >both XS and XSCE.  I don't see it happening at the moment; both
> >development streams appear stalled (there are no published plans to
> >release), but I would not be unhappy to see the streams restarted.
> >
> >"stable" software means it isn't going to change, isn't going to
> >develop in response to changing needs, and isn't going to be fixed.
> 
> 
> Sorry. I thought stable meant a production release - the one that
> deployments should use.
> 
> In the sense you describe, there never has been a ongoing server
> development. It was put together by Martin Langhoff and updated to
> XS-0.7 by Daniel Drake. As far as I am aware, there is no Trac for
> problems with XS-0.7. There is also no feature request process.
> 
> On the other hand, XSCE does have a development team and a planned
> release process (currently 0.3 with plans for 0.4 and 0.5).
> 
> As Sameer has written, the primary concern is a perception that XSCE
> is a successor to XS-0.7. It is an alternative designed to meet
> certain specific hardware and deployment needs. XSCE is also not a
> fork of XS in the normal use of that term in software development.
> XS is an open source project (primarily consisting of packaging and
> configuring CentOS, Moodle, and so on) so ownership by OLPC is not
> an issue.

Thanks!  I wasn't even aware that OLPC wasn't promoting XSCE until I
got _told_ today.  Now that I know, I've adjusted

http://wiki.laptop.org/go/School_server

to more clearly delineate the Community Edition project from the OLPC
XS project.

I think the rest of the page deserves more tidying, but there's so
much I don't know.  It doesn't look good for the community of which I
am a part to be so sloppy in Wiki edits, for which I apologise.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Server-devel] 20-xc-generic

[Jerry Vonau]

On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 08:03 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> On 08/06/2013 05:40 AM, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> > Think the attachment got scrubbed in digest mode. Can you reply to this
> > tread with the contents of 20-xc-generic script please?
> #!/bin/bash
> # Author: Daniel Drake 
> # XS auto-usbmount import script for code parts of the e-library
> #modified for Rwanda configuration 
> # execute XC-install if found
> set -e
> 
> VERBOSE=no
> 
> # Log a string via the syslog facility.
> log()
> {
>  if test $1 != debug || expr "$VERBOSE" : "[yY]" > /dev/null; then
>  logger -p user.$1 -t "rwxc-code[$$]" -- "$2"
>  echo "$(date "+%F %T") rwxc-code: $2"
>  fi
> }
> 
> error_beep()
> {
>  echo -en '\033[10;1000]\033[11;100]\007' > /dev/console
>  sleep 0.2
>  echo -en '\033[10;1000]\033[11;100]\007' > /dev/console
>  sleep 0.2
>  echo -en '\033[10]\033[11]' > /dev/console
>  return 0
> }
> 
> if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/XC/xc-install ]; then
>  exec >> $UM_MOUNTPOINT/xc-usbmount.txt 2>&1
> fi
> 
> if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/xc.*.tar.bz2 ]; then
>  exec >> $UM_MOUNTPOINT/xc-usbmount.txt 2>&1
> fi
> 
> if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/xc.*.tar.bz2 ]; then
>  log notice "Updating School Server"
>  rm -rf /library/update
>  mkdir /library/update
>  cp "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/xc.*tar.bz2 /library/update
>  cd /library/update
>  tar -xvf xc.*.tar.bz2
>  if bash xc-update; then
>  log notice "School server updated successfully"
>  else
>  log notice "School server update failed with code $?"
>  error_beep
>  fi
> fi
> 
> if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/XC/xc-install ]; then
>  log notice "Installing XC"
>  cd $UM_MOUNTPOINT/XC
>  if bash xc-install; then
>  log notice "XC installed successfully"
>  else
>  log notice "XC install failed with code $?"
>  error_beep
>  fi
> fi

Thank you.

Jerry

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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 4

[Jerry Vonau]

On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 07:58 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> On 08/06/2013 05:39 AM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:
> > Tony, you have quoted me and misunderstand my use of the word
> > "unstable".  It means something that continues to change, that
> > develops, in response to user input in the form of enhancements and
> > bug fixes.  I would like to see continued change and development of
> > both XS and XSCE.  I don't see it happening at the moment; both
> > development streams appear stalled (there are no published plans to
> > release), but I would not be unhappy to see the streams restarted.
> >
> > "stable" software means it isn't going to change, isn't going to
> > develop in response to changing needs, and isn't going to be fixed.
> 
> 
> Sorry. I thought stable meant a production release - the one that 
> deployments should use.
> 
> In the sense you describe, there never has been a ongoing server 
> development. It was put together by Martin Langhoff and updated to
> XS-0.7 by Daniel Drake. As far as I am aware, there is no Trac for
> problems with XS-0.7. There is also no feature request process.
> 

https://dev.laptop.org/newticket Component: can be set to "school
server" Here is a quick query[1] of tickets. Think you file your wanted
feature as a "bug" and set type: to "enhancement"

> On the other hand, XSCE does have a development team and a planned 
> release process (currently 0.3 with plans for 0.4 and 0.5).
> 

XSCE 0.4 should be out soon.

> As Sameer has written, the primary concern is a perception that XSCE is 
> a successor to XS-0.7. It is an alternative designed to meet certain 
> specific hardware and deployment needs. XSCE is also not a fork of XS in 
> the normal use of that term in software development. XS is an open 
> source project (primarily consisting of packaging and configuring 
> CentOS, Moodle, and so on) so ownership by OLPC is not an issue.
> 

Prior to 0.7 XS was running Fedora, the XSCE crew is just returning to
those roots to gain ARM support while using the same underlying src rpms
as the XS uses. The different becomes content delivery, the XSCE crew
would like to open that door up wide as possible while not relying on
one off scripts that are tied to ones wallet.

Jerry


1.https://dev.laptop.org/query?status=assigned&status=closed&status=new&status=reopened&component=school+server&order=priority&col=id&col=summary&col=status&col=type&col=priority&col=milestone&col=component


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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 3

[Tony Anderson]

On 08/06/2013 03:56 AM, Samuel Greenfeld wrote:
There is a need for some continued maintenance of the XS: there are 
known bugs, and security patches could be required from time to time.


Just because something is not "unstable" does not mean that 
development has to completely cease.


It is not clear to me though who will continue to do this work.


Where is the list of known bugs kept? It is likely that most bugs and 
security patches
will originate upstream. Daniel Drake as well documented the build 
process so that
fixes could be made. Currently, Moodle is 1.9 while continued 
development is on

Moodle 2.

I don't think resources are available presently to maintain XS-0.7, let 
alone upgrade

Moodle. This is probably going to be a requirement on the deployments.

Tony
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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25

[Tony Anderson]

On 08/06/2013 05:40 AM, Jerry Vonau wrote:

I'd be interested in the contents of the xs-moodle files or is that an
example? Sounds like 20-xc-generic looks for xc-* directories and files
in those directories to execute, need to see the code to be sure on what
you require.

The install file for Moodle is

 cd "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/XC
if [ -f xc-moodle/xc-moodle-install ]; then
log notice "Installing moodle"
cd xc-moodle
if bash xc-moodle-install; then
log notice "moodle installed successfully"
else
log notice "moodle install failed with code $?"
error_beep
fi
else
log notice 'moodle not found'
error_beep

fi

The xc-moodle-install file is:

#!/bin/bash

#take backup from existing moodle
#su - postgres
#pg_dump moodle-xs > moodle-xs.sql

#stop httpd
/etc/init.d/httpd stop

#copy the moodle folder to /library
rm -rf /library/moodle
cp -r moodle /library/moodle
chown -R apache:apache /library/moodle

#restore the moodle-xs.sql backup of the database
psql -d moodle-xs -f moodle-xs.sql
#replace config.php file in /var/www/moodle/web and update 
/etc/httpd/conf.d/moodle.conf (if necessary)

cp config.php /var/www/moodle/web
cp moodle.conf /etc/httpd/conf.d

#start httpd
/etc/init.d/httpd start

Naturally, Moodle itself is installed as part of XS-0.7. This installs a 
PostgreSQL backup of Moodle content (courses). It also moved the Moodle 
data to /library.
This was a mistake in the XS implementation. Data directories which can 
grow
with use should be in /library not in the root partition. This is the 
change in

config.php.

The essence of this technique is that 20-xc-generic needs to be 
installed by xo-custom, xs-setup, or in the build. Once that is 
installed, a deployment can

perform any additional installations of content or packages via xc-install.

It would probably be useful to have a library of these optional 
installations.


Currently, I am using this technique to install the courseware for the 
Learn
activity, Django, the library, wiki4schools, mediawiki, wiktionary, the 
beginnings of a learning management system, and the beginnings of an 
itembank of questions. I hope to have an install script for IIAB 
(probably one for the front end and one or more for the content).


Tony


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Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[Jerry Vonau]

On Tue, 2013-08-06 at 15:33 +1000, James Cameron wrote:
> On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 12:19:30AM -0500, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> > On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 09:51 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
> > > > On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > > >> Just noticed that on
> > > >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
> > > >> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
> > > >>
> > > >> Is this correct?
> > > >
> > > > What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
> > > > every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
> > > > on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
> > > > includes the template.
> > > >
> > > > The template edits that led to this are here:
> > > >
> > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
> > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
> > > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Thanks for the links. Makes it clearer.
> > > 
> > > >> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
> > > >> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
> > > >> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!
> > > >
> > > > I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
> > > > become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
> > > > stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.
> > > >
> > > > I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> > > > version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> > > > ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
> > > > of XSCE.
> > > >
> > > 
> > > Correct, but as it is represented now, XS will become XSCE, which is
> > > incorrect. As a customer, I consider XS and XSCE to be two different
> > > products. The XS is a product from OLPC. XSCE is a product (not
> > > production ready, but still a product) from the "community" (double
> > > quotes intended). Although the XSCE may very well be a fork of the XS,
> > > it has its own specs and a set of developers working on it. I am one
> > > of the few who use XSCE on a 1.75 in one of my projects. I also use XS
> > > 0.7 in three other projects. My reasonings for choosing one over the
> > > other are distinct. So, I do not appreciate the confusion.
> > > 
> > > Mixing the two is misleading. XS 0.7 may very well be end of the line,
> > > or there may be a 0.8, but that's up to OLPC to decide, and not for
> > > XSCE to usurp. After all, AU has a server. 
> > 
> > As the developer of that AU version, lots of my code and ideas when on
> > to become what is XS-0.7 thanks to dsd. Still think imitation is the
> > highest form of flattery.
> 
> Indeed.
> 
> > 
> > >  So does Nepal. So does
> > > Uruguay. So does Activity Central. We don't see those listed on the
> > > template now, do we? If this was out of a misunderstanding, it needs
> > > to be corrected. If this injection was deliberate, then it was foolish
> > > at best.
> > > 
> > > It's a shame how much obfuscation has creeped into this space. Let's
> > > be clear about what the XS is and what the XSCE is and move on.
> > > 
> > 
> > Yes, lets be clear here, is OLPC going to maintain 0.7 going forward? I
> > asking if OLPC is going to maintain their forked ejabberd rpm and not
> > rely on exclude=ejabberd in the yum repo files?
> 
> There are no plans at the moment for OLPC to develop and release
> xs-0.8, but this may change if a deployment comes to us with a need.
> 

That doesn't answer the question is OLPC going to maintain their already
forked rpm going forward? It's blocking a EPEL update[1], not that it's
a security update but should one come down the pipe, as a system
administrator I'd like re-assurance that I can run the latest fixed
code. Hate to think that no new updates are available until some other
deployment needs something. This is also blocking XS on CentOS-6.4[2] as
the wrong version of ejabberd gets installed.

> That there is a deployment contributing to XSCE is certainly good to
> keep in mind and recognise.  There may be more versions of XSCE
> released than XS, but that's not a technical problem.
> 

No a problem at all, shows the XSCE crew are actively working towards
their goals and listening to future potential users and reacting.

Jerry

> > This there going to be a 0.8? When? and by who? We don't need to
> > duplicate efforts here.
> > 
> > Jerry  
> > 

1. https://bugzilla.redhat.com/show_bug.cgi?id=846856
2. http://people.sugarlabs.org/Tgillard/XS_Install-1.txt


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[Server-devel] 20-xc-generic

[Tony Anderson]

On 08/06/2013 05:40 AM, Jerry Vonau wrote:

Think the attachment got scrubbed in digest mode. Can you reply to this
tread with the contents of 20-xc-generic script please?

#!/bin/bash
# Author: Daniel Drake 
# XS auto-usbmount import script for code parts of the e-library
#modified for Rwanda configuration 
# execute XC-install if found
set -e

VERBOSE=no

# Log a string via the syslog facility.
log()
{
if test $1 != debug || expr "$VERBOSE" : "[yY]" > /dev/null; then
logger -p user.$1 -t "rwxc-code[$$]" -- "$2"
echo "$(date "+%F %T") rwxc-code: $2"
fi
}

error_beep()
{
echo -en '\033[10;1000]\033[11;100]\007' > /dev/console
sleep 0.2
echo -en '\033[10;1000]\033[11;100]\007' > /dev/console
sleep 0.2
echo -en '\033[10]\033[11]' > /dev/console
return 0
}

if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/XC/xc-install ]; then
exec >> $UM_MOUNTPOINT/xc-usbmount.txt 2>&1
fi

if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/xc.*.tar.bz2 ]; then
exec >> $UM_MOUNTPOINT/xc-usbmount.txt 2>&1
fi

if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/xc.*.tar.bz2 ]; then
log notice "Updating School Server"
rm -rf /library/update
mkdir /library/update
cp "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/xc.*tar.bz2 /library/update
cd /library/update
tar -xvf xc.*.tar.bz2
if bash xc-update; then
log notice "School server updated successfully"
else
log notice "School server update failed with code $?"
error_beep
fi
fi

if [ -f "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/XC/xc-install ]; then
log notice "Installing XC"
cd $UM_MOUNTPOINT/XC
if bash xc-install; then
log notice "XC installed successfully"
else
log notice "XC install failed with code $?"
error_beep
fi
fi
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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 4

[Tony Anderson]

On 08/06/2013 05:39 AM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

Tony, you have quoted me and misunderstand my use of the word
"unstable".  It means something that continues to change, that
develops, in response to user input in the form of enhancements and
bug fixes.  I would like to see continued change and development of
both XS and XSCE.  I don't see it happening at the moment; both
development streams appear stalled (there are no published plans to
release), but I would not be unhappy to see the streams restarted.

"stable" software means it isn't going to change, isn't going to
develop in response to changing needs, and isn't going to be fixed.



Sorry. I thought stable meant a production release - the one that 
deployments should use.


In the sense you describe, there never has been a ongoing server 
development. It was put together by Martin Langhoff and updated to

XS-0.7 by Daniel Drake. As far as I am aware, there is no Trac for
problems with XS-0.7. There is also no feature request process.

On the other hand, XSCE does have a development team and a planned 
release process (currently 0.3 with plans for 0.4 and 0.5).


As Sameer has written, the primary concern is a perception that XSCE is 
a successor to XS-0.7. It is an alternative designed to meet certain 
specific hardware and deployment needs. XSCE is also not a fork of XS in 
the normal use of that term in software development. XS is an open 
source project (primarily consisting of packaging and configuring 
CentOS, Moodle, and so on) so ownership by OLPC is not an issue.


Tony
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Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[James Cameron]

On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 12:19:30AM -0500, Jerry Vonau wrote:
> On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 09:51 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
> > > On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > >> Just noticed that on
> > >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
> > >> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
> > >>
> > >> Is this correct?
> > >
> > > What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
> > > every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
> > > on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
> > > includes the template.
> > >
> > > The template edits that led to this are here:
> > >
> > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
> > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
> > > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053
> > >
> > 
> > Thanks for the links. Makes it clearer.
> > 
> > >> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
> > >> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
> > >> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!
> > >
> > > I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
> > > become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
> > > stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.
> > >
> > > I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> > > version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> > > ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
> > > of XSCE.
> > >
> > 
> > Correct, but as it is represented now, XS will become XSCE, which is
> > incorrect. As a customer, I consider XS and XSCE to be two different
> > products. The XS is a product from OLPC. XSCE is a product (not
> > production ready, but still a product) from the "community" (double
> > quotes intended). Although the XSCE may very well be a fork of the XS,
> > it has its own specs and a set of developers working on it. I am one
> > of the few who use XSCE on a 1.75 in one of my projects. I also use XS
> > 0.7 in three other projects. My reasonings for choosing one over the
> > other are distinct. So, I do not appreciate the confusion.
> > 
> > Mixing the two is misleading. XS 0.7 may very well be end of the line,
> > or there may be a 0.8, but that's up to OLPC to decide, and not for
> > XSCE to usurp. After all, AU has a server. 
> 
> As the developer of that AU version, lots of my code and ideas when on
> to become what is XS-0.7 thanks to dsd. Still think imitation is the
> highest form of flattery.

Indeed.

> 
> >  So does Nepal. So does
> > Uruguay. So does Activity Central. We don't see those listed on the
> > template now, do we? If this was out of a misunderstanding, it needs
> > to be corrected. If this injection was deliberate, then it was foolish
> > at best.
> > 
> > It's a shame how much obfuscation has creeped into this space. Let's
> > be clear about what the XS is and what the XSCE is and move on.
> > 
> 
> Yes, lets be clear here, is OLPC going to maintain 0.7 going forward? I
> asking if OLPC is going to maintain their forked ejabberd rpm and not
> rely on exclude=ejabberd in the yum repo files?

There are no plans at the moment for OLPC to develop and release
xs-0.8, but this may change if a deployment comes to us with a need.

That there is a deployment contributing to XSCE is certainly good to
keep in mind and recognise.  There may be more versions of XSCE
released than XS, but that's not a technical problem.

> This there going to be a 0.8? When? and by who? We don't need to
> duplicate efforts here.
> 
> Jerry  
> 
> 
> 

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[Jerry Vonau]

On Mon, 2013-08-05 at 09:51 -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> >> Just noticed that on
> >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
> >> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
> >>
> >> Is this correct?
> >
> > What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
> > every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
> > on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
> > includes the template.
> >
> > The template edits that led to this are here:
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053
> >
> 
> Thanks for the links. Makes it clearer.
> 
> >> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
> >> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
> >> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!
> >
> > I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
> > become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
> > stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.
> >
> > I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> > version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> > ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
> > of XSCE.
> >
> 
> Correct, but as it is represented now, XS will become XSCE, which is
> incorrect. As a customer, I consider XS and XSCE to be two different
> products. The XS is a product from OLPC. XSCE is a product (not
> production ready, but still a product) from the "community" (double
> quotes intended). Although the XSCE may very well be a fork of the XS,
> it has its own specs and a set of developers working on it. I am one
> of the few who use XSCE on a 1.75 in one of my projects. I also use XS
> 0.7 in three other projects. My reasonings for choosing one over the
> other are distinct. So, I do not appreciate the confusion.
> 
> Mixing the two is misleading. XS 0.7 may very well be end of the line,
> or there may be a 0.8, but that's up to OLPC to decide, and not for
> XSCE to usurp. After all, AU has a server. 

As the developer of that AU version, lots of my code and ideas when on
to become what is XS-0.7 thanks to dsd. Still think imitation is the
highest form of flattery.

>  So does Nepal. So does
> Uruguay. So does Activity Central. We don't see those listed on the
> template now, do we? If this was out of a misunderstanding, it needs
> to be corrected. If this injection was deliberate, then it was foolish
> at best.
> 
> It's a shame how much obfuscation has creeped into this space. Let's
> be clear about what the XS is and what the XSCE is and move on.
> 

Yes, lets be clear here, is OLPC going to maintain 0.7 going forward? I
asking if OLPC is going to maintain their forked ejabberd rpm and not
rely on exclude=ejabberd in the yum repo files?

This there going to be a 0.8? When? and by who? We don't need to
duplicate efforts here.

Jerry  



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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 75, Issue 25

[Jerry Vonau]

Thank you Tony, I'll see if I can intergrade this into the XSCE as a
optional module. More below.

On Fri, 2013-08-02 at 12:02 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> On 08/01/2013 06:33 PM, Sameer Verma wrote:
> > On Mon, Jul 29, 2013 at 11:33 PM, Tony Anderson  wrote:
> >> >Hi,
> >> >
> >> >As I have unsuccessfully tried to explain many times. OLE Nepal, with help
> >> >from Daniel Drake, an effective and proven means to add selected
> >> >capabilities
> >> >to the base server. Since this capability takes advantage of the running
> >> >base
> >> >server, all of its normal system administration capabilities are available
> >> >(ssh,
> >> >yum, etc.).
> >> >
> > This is true, but not documented well and not known. For instance, we
> > use munin and openvpn on the XS 0.7 in Jamaica, and those are
> > "add-ons". It would be good to document this and discuss approaches
> > for installing complementary services.
> 
> The process is straightforward.
> 
> At install time, the script xs-custom is executed.
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> cp 20-xc-generic /etc/usbmount/mount.d
> cp path.py /usr/lib/python2.6/site-packages
> python fixssh.py
> adduser -padmin admin
> xs-setup domain
> poweroff
> 
> It installs a modified version of Daniel Drake's script 20-xc-generic 
> which will be executed when a removable drive is mounted.
> It puts path.py (a utility I use in many python cgi-scripts).
> It executes a script fixssh.py which enables password authentication.
> Finally, it adds user admin with password admin.
> The xs-setup script is executed to complete the process.
> The poweroff is a clear signal when the script is finished and forces a 
> reboot.
> 
> The 20-xc-generic script is attached. 

Think the attachment got scrubbed in digest mode. Can you reply to this
tread with the contents of 20-xc-generic script please?

> It checks the removable device for 
> a root folder
> XC. If this exists, it checks for a script in that folder 'xc-install'. 
> If so, it is executed. This allows a usb drive or hard drive to be used 
> for this install or for other purposes by renaming the XC folder (e.g. 
> xc) so that it is ignored.
> 
> The fixsh.py scripts enables password authentication:
> 
> #!/usr/bin/python
> 
> test = 'PasswordAuthentication'
> 
> fin=open('/etc/ssh/sshd_config.in','r')
> txt = fin.read()
> fin.close()
> lines = txt.split('\n')
> txtout = ''
> fout = open('/etc/ssh/sshd_config.in','w')
> for line in lines:
>  if test in line and not '#' in line:
>  print >> fout, test + ' yes'
>  else:
>  print >> fout, line
> fout.close()
> 
> 
> This is another reason for poweroff and reboot so that 
> /etc/ssh/sshd_config is also
> updated.
> 

Think a sshd restart might suffice.

> This enables login from an XO or other PC via ssh admin@schoolserver for
> system administration.
> 

That is part of the stock XSCE build.

The below needs the 20-xc-generic file to be present on the XS correct?

> The xc-install script in XC looks like this:
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> # Author: Daniel Drake 
> # XS auto-usbmount import script for code parts of the e-library
> #modified for Rwanda configuration 
> 
> set -e
> 
> VERBOSE=No
> 
> # Log a string via the syslog facility.
> log()
> {
>  if test $1 != debug || expr "$VERBOSE" : "[yY]" > /dev/null; then
>  logger -p user.$1 -t "xc-code[$$]" -- "$2"
>  echo "$(date "+%F %T") xc-code: $2"
>  fi
> }
> 
> error_beep()
> {
>  echo -en '\033[10;1000]\033[11;100]\007' > /dev/console
>  sleep 0.2
>  echo -en '\033[10;1000]\033[11;100]\007' > /dev/console
>  sleep 0.2
>  echo -en '\033[10]\033[11]' > /dev/console
>  return 0
> }
> 
> UM_MOUNTPOINT="/media/usb0"
> 
> cd "$UM_MOUNTPOINT"/XC
> if [ -f xc-wiki/xc-wiki4schools-install ]; then
>  log notice "Installing Wiki4Schools"
>  cd xc-wiki
>  if bash xc-wiki4schools-install; then
>  log notice "wiki4schools installed successfully"
>  else
>  log notice "wiki4schools install failed with code $?"
>  error beep
>  fi
> else
>  log notice 'xc-wiki not found'
> 
> It normally has several of these install sections. The install section 
> looks for a
> folder: xc-wiki and in that folder for an install script: 
> xc-wiki4schools-install.
> The contents of the folder are:
> 
> wiki.conf
> xc-wiki4schools-install
> xc-wiki4schools.tar.gz
> xc-wiki4schools.tar.gz.sha1
> 
> The xc-wiki4schools-install is:
> 
> #!/bin/bash
> 
> wktar=xc-wiki4schools.tar.gz
> 
> log() {
>  logger -p user.notice -t nexc-wiktionary-inst -s -- "$1"
> }
> 
> cp wiki.conf /etc/httpd/conf.d
> 
> rm -rf /library/wiki
> mkdir -p /library/wiki
> 
> cp $wktar /library/wiki
> cd /library/wiki
> 
> if ! tar -xzf $wktar; then
>  log "could not extract $wktar"
>  exit 1
> fi
> 
> rm -rf /library/wiki/$wktar
> 
> chown -R apache:apache /library/wiki
> chmod -R 755 /library/wiki
> 
> This s

Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 3

[James Cameron]

Tony, you have quoted me and misunderstand my use of the word
"unstable".  It means something that continues to change, that
develops, in response to user input in the form of enhancements and
bug fixes.  I would like to see continued change and development of
both XS and XSCE.  I don't see it happening at the moment; both
development streams appear stalled (there are no published plans to
release), but I would not be unhappy to see the streams restarted.

"stable" software means it isn't going to change, isn't going to
develop in response to changing needs, and isn't going to be fixed.

On Tue, Aug 06, 2013 at 03:34:29AM +0200, Tony Anderson wrote:
> Hi,
> 
> I think there is a real misunderstanding of the school server software.
> 
> Daniel Drake updated XS-0.6 to a CentOS 6.2 base because the Fedora
> base was obsolete. There is no need for continued development of XS
> at this time, it is functional and stable.
> 
> XSCE appears to be a substantially different development aimed, at
> several objectives:
> enable XO hardware to act as the school server
> support the ARM platform
> provide gui support for basic system administration
> modularize server functions so that deployments can pick and
> choose which capabilities to include.
> 
> I don't think we need or want an unstable XS. The existence of
> CentOS points to the difference between server and client software
> development models.
> 
> Tony
> 
> 
> 
> 
> On 08/05/2013 06:00 PM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:
> >I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> >version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> >ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
> >of XSCE.
> 
> ___
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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 3

[Samuel Greenfeld]

There is a need for some continued maintenance of the XS: there are known
bugs, and security patches could be required from time to time.

Just because something is not "unstable" does not mean that development has
to completely cease.

It is not clear to me though who will continue to do this work.



On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 9:34 PM, Tony Anderson  wrote:

> Hi,
>
> I think there is a real misunderstanding of the school server software.
>
> Daniel Drake updated XS-0.6 to a CentOS 6.2 base because the Fedora base
> was obsolete. There is no need for continued development of XS at this
> time, it is functional and stable.
>
> XSCE appears to be a substantially different development aimed, at several
> objectives:
> enable XO hardware to act as the school server
> support the ARM platform
> provide gui support for basic system administration
> modularize server functions so that deployments can pick and choose
> which capabilities to include.
>
> I don't think we need or want an unstable XS. The existence of CentOS
> points to the difference between server and client software development
> models.
>
> Tony
>
>
>
>
> On 08/05/2013 06:00 PM, 
> server-devel-request@lists.**laptop.orgwrote:
>
>> I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
>> version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
>> ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
>> of XSCE.
>>
>
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Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 3

[Tony Anderson]

Hi,

I think there is a real misunderstanding of the school server software.

Daniel Drake updated XS-0.6 to a CentOS 6.2 base because the Fedora base 
was obsolete. There is no need for continued development of XS at this 
time, it is functional and stable.


XSCE appears to be a substantially different development aimed, at 
several objectives:

enable XO hardware to act as the school server
support the ARM platform
provide gui support for basic system administration
modularize server functions so that deployments can pick and choose 
which capabilities to include.


I don't think we need or want an unstable XS. The existence of CentOS 
points to the difference between server and client software development 
models.


Tony




On 08/05/2013 06:00 PM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote:

I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
of XSCE.


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Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[James Cameron]

On Mon, Aug 05, 2013 at 09:51:44AM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
> > On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> >> Just noticed that on
> >> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
> >> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
> >>
> >> Is this correct?
> >
> > What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
> > every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
> > on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
> > includes the template.
> >
> > The template edits that led to this are here:
> >
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053
> >
> 
> Thanks for the links. Makes it clearer.
> 
> >> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
> >> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
> >> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!
> >
> > I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
> > become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
> > stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.
> >
> > I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> > version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> > ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
> > of XSCE.
> >
> 
> Correct, but as it is represented now, XS will become XSCE, which is
> incorrect.

I didn't see any conflict myself, but since you have I have edited the
template, splitting xs from XSCE.  I have also simplified it;

- moving to one entry for XO-1, XO-1.5, XO-1.75 and XO-4 since they
  are all the same version and release date,

- reassigning the colours,

- temporarily removing the "stable" tags, since they currently serve
  no purpose.

> As a customer, I consider XS and XSCE to be two different
> products. The XS is a product from OLPC. XSCE is a product (not
> production ready, but still a product) from the "community" (double
> quotes intended). Although the XSCE may very well be a fork of the XS,
> it has its own specs and a set of developers working on it. I am one
> of the few who use XSCE on a 1.75 in one of my projects. I also use XS
> 0.7 in three other projects. My reasonings for choosing one over the
> other are distinct. So, I do not appreciate the confusion.
> 
> Mixing the two is misleading. XS 0.7 may very well be end of the line,
> or there may be a 0.8, but that's up to OLPC to decide, and not for
> XSCE to usurp. After all, AU has a server. So does Nepal. So does
> Uruguay. So does Activity Central. We don't see those listed on the
> template now, do we? If this was out of a misunderstanding, it needs
> to be corrected. If this injection was deliberate, then it was foolish
> at best.
> 
> It's a shame how much obfuscation has creeped into this space. Let's
> be clear about what the XS is and what the XSCE is and move on.
> 
> Sameer
> -- 
> Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Professor, Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://commons.sfsu.edu/
> http://olpcsf.org/
> http://olpcjamaica.org.jm/
> 
> 
> > --
> > James Cameron
> > http://quozl.linux.org.au/
> >
> >

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[Sameer Verma]

On Mon, Aug 5, 2013 at 1:16 AM, James Cameron  wrote:
> On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
>> Just noticed that on
>> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
>> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
>>
>> Is this correct?
>
> What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
> every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
> on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
> includes the template.
>
> The template edits that led to this are here:
>
> http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
> http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
> http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053
>

Thanks for the links. Makes it clearer.

>> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
>> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
>> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!
>
> I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
> become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
> stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.
>
> I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
> version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
> ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
> of XSCE.
>

Correct, but as it is represented now, XS will become XSCE, which is
incorrect. As a customer, I consider XS and XSCE to be two different
products. The XS is a product from OLPC. XSCE is a product (not
production ready, but still a product) from the "community" (double
quotes intended). Although the XSCE may very well be a fork of the XS,
it has its own specs and a set of developers working on it. I am one
of the few who use XSCE on a 1.75 in one of my projects. I also use XS
0.7 in three other projects. My reasonings for choosing one over the
other are distinct. So, I do not appreciate the confusion.

Mixing the two is misleading. XS 0.7 may very well be end of the line,
or there may be a 0.8, but that's up to OLPC to decide, and not for
XSCE to usurp. After all, AU has a server. So does Nepal. So does
Uruguay. So does Activity Central. We don't see those listed on the
template now, do we? If this was out of a misunderstanding, it needs
to be corrected. If this injection was deliberate, then it was foolish
at best.

It's a shame how much obfuscation has creeped into this space. Let's
be clear about what the XS is and what the XSCE is and move on.

Sameer
-- 
Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Professor, Information Systems
San Francisco State University
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://commons.sfsu.edu/
http://olpcsf.org/
http://olpcjamaica.org.jm/


> --
> James Cameron
> http://quozl.linux.org.au/
>
>
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Re: [Server-devel] XS to become XSCE???

[James Cameron]

On Sun, Aug 04, 2013 at 10:13:25PM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote:
> Just noticed that on
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Installing_Software_0.7 it says that
> stable version is XS 0.7 and unstable is XSCE 0.3
> 
> Is this correct?

What you see is from the template page Latest Releases and occurs on
every Wiki page that includes that template.  So the fact that it is
on XS_Installing_Software_0.7 is not unusual, because that page
includes the template.

The template edits that led to this are here:

http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287052&oldid=266082
http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287053&oldid=287052
http://wiki.laptop.org/index.php?title=Template:Latest_Releases/XS-devel&diff=287329&oldid=287053

> Is XSCE to become XS 0.8? I am all in favor of the two projects
> merging, but as I understand it, XS and XSCE are two very
> *different* projects as of now. Some clarification would be great!

I don't see any indication on the template to suggest that XSCE will
become XS, but I do see "Server" software now includes xs-0.7 as
stable, and XSCE 0.3 as unstable.

I don't see any unstable version of xs-, and I don't see any stable
version of XSCE.  I'd like to see both.  The former would indicate
ongoing development of xs- and the latter would indicate finalisation
of XSCE.

-- 
James Cameron
http://quozl.linux.org.au/
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