Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 21
On Sat, 2013-08-17 at 07:40 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > My point about the UPS is that an off-grid setup doesn't need one which > somewhat offsets the additional cost of supporting a hard drive. Yea the cost savings can go towards a proper 12v deep cycle battery. > Currently the two schools in Lesotho are using MSI Nettop as school > servers. In the context of charging 30-100 XOs, the additional power > consumed by the school server is negligible. > > However, at the second school which charges the laptops using individual > solar panels, the school server takes a dedicated solar panel charging a > pair of car batteries. > > The big surprise was that the MSI does not boot on 12vdc. This required > adding an inverter (designed to charge laptops from a car battery). > Good to know, thanks. > I was hoping the Trim-Slice H would be suitable. I am concerned with its > fixed 1GB memory. The Utilite looked like a promising alternative, but > supports only SSD. We may have to wait for nettops based on the new > Atom technology for a one-box solution. In the meantime, the current > Atom based systems are doable in an off-grid deployment. > > By the way, the need for the school server is closer to 50 hours per > week than 24/7. Normally it needs to be booted only during the hours > when children are in school. > Valid point, that should be taken into account when calculating total power requirements. Jerry > Tony > > On 08/17/2013 06:21 AM, Jerry Vonau wrote: > > On Sat, 2013-08-17 at 05:49 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote: > >> >Hi, > >> > > >> >What is the disk capacity required by internet-in-a-box? > >> > > > 600-700 gigs > > > >> >The purpose of the server is to deliver the information not available > >> >from the internet. > >> > > > Yup, or when your offline. > > > >> >The cost of a UPS which is required for a system on the grid is $80-100. > >> > > > Think the issue is mainly about off-grid systems, those are usually 12v. > > What would be neat is if there was a power supply that you could replace > > in your standard PC that used 12v as the supply voltage. Anybody know of > > a manufacture that supplies one? I'd hate to see what the size of the > > battery pack and the recharging requirements needed of the > > solar/wind/ recharging system that would be needed to run > > such a beast. > > > >> >In my experience, there is need for one school server at a school > >> >supporting 30-200 XOs. > > Know of any low power devices that you might recommend for off-grid use? > > > > Jerry > > > ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 21
Hi, My point about the UPS is that an off-grid setup doesn't need one which somewhat offsets the additional cost of supporting a hard drive. Currently the two schools in Lesotho are using MSI Nettop as school servers. In the context of charging 30-100 XOs, the additional power consumed by the school server is negligible. However, at the second school which charges the laptops using individual solar panels, the school server takes a dedicated solar panel charging a pair of car batteries. The big surprise was that the MSI does not boot on 12vdc. This required adding an inverter (designed to charge laptops from a car battery). I was hoping the Trim-Slice H would be suitable. I am concerned with its fixed 1GB memory. The Utilite looked like a promising alternative, but supports only SSD. We may have to wait for nettops based on the new Atom technology for a one-box solution. In the meantime, the current Atom based systems are doable in an off-grid deployment. By the way, the need for the school server is closer to 50 hours per week than 24/7. Normally it needs to be booted only during the hours when children are in school. Tony On 08/17/2013 06:21 AM, Jerry Vonau wrote: On Sat, 2013-08-17 at 05:49 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote: >Hi, > >What is the disk capacity required by internet-in-a-box? > 600-700 gigs >The purpose of the server is to deliver the information not available >from the internet. > Yup, or when your offline. >The cost of a UPS which is required for a system on the grid is $80-100. > Think the issue is mainly about off-grid systems, those are usually 12v. What would be neat is if there was a power supply that you could replace in your standard PC that used 12v as the supply voltage. Anybody know of a manufacture that supplies one? I'd hate to see what the size of the battery pack and the recharging requirements needed of the solar/wind/ recharging system that would be needed to run such a beast. >In my experience, there is need for one school server at a school >supporting 30-200 XOs. Know of any low power devices that you might recommend for off-grid use? Jerry ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 21
On Sat, 2013-08-17 at 05:49 +0200, Tony Anderson wrote: > Hi, > > What is the disk capacity required by internet-in-a-box? > 600-700 gigs > The purpose of the server is to deliver the information not available > from the internet. > Yup, or when your offline. > The cost of a UPS which is required for a system on the grid is $80-100. > Think the issue is mainly about off-grid systems, those are usually 12v. What would be neat is if there was a power supply that you could replace in your standard PC that used 12v as the supply voltage. Anybody know of a manufacture that supplies one? I'd hate to see what the size of the battery pack and the recharging requirements needed of the solar/wind/ recharging system that would be needed to run such a beast. > In my experience, there is need for one school server at a school > supporting 30-200 XOs. Know of any low power devices that you might recommend for off-grid use? Jerry > > Tony > > On 08/17/2013 03:02 AM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote: > >>The average difference between power consumption of an SSD and a HDD is > >>about 4W. [1][2] > >> > >>Now considering the environments we're gonna head into we're looking at > >>typically 1-3 days of power backup for the server (lets average out at 2). > >> > >>That means, the battery backup needed is: > >>4 * 24 * 2 = 192 W-hr > >> > >>*That comes out to roughly $25-35 in battery costs* (again based on quick > >>google searches for battery costs). *If you want a longer life from > >>you're battery, you're looking at about $50-60 in battery costs.* > >> > >>Now if we're also giving solar backup, based on the calculator here > >>[3] we're going to need about a 25-30W solar panel (for just those 4 extra > >>watts). Again, google tells me that *such panels retail for about $65-80.* > >>* > >>* > >>*So, on average we'll save $100-$130 on TCO (total cost of ownership), if > >>we intend to provide an SSD as opposed to an HDD, considering the server > >>runs 24x7 and 2 days of backup is needed.* > >>* > >>* > >>On top of that, you're looking at less failures, a better operating > >>temperature range, and more durability. > > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > Server-devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 21
Hi, What is the disk capacity required by internet-in-a-box? The purpose of the server is to deliver the information not available from the internet. The cost of a UPS which is required for a system on the grid is $80-100. In my experience, there is need for one school server at a school supporting 30-200 XOs. Tony On 08/17/2013 03:02 AM, server-devel-requ...@lists.laptop.org wrote: The average difference between power consumption of an SSD and a HDD is about 4W. [1][2] Now considering the environments we're gonna head into we're looking at typically 1-3 days of power backup for the server (lets average out at 2). That means, the battery backup needed is: 4 * 24 * 2 = 192 W-hr *That comes out to roughly $25-35 in battery costs* (again based on quick google searches for battery costs). *If you want a longer life from you're battery, you're looking at about $50-60 in battery costs.* Now if we're also giving solar backup, based on the calculator here [3] we're going to need about a 25-30W solar panel (for just those 4 extra watts). Again, google tells me that *such panels retail for about $65-80.* * * *So, on average we'll save $100-$130 on TCO (total cost of ownership), if we intend to provide an SSD as opposed to an HDD, considering the server runs 24x7 and 2 days of backup is needed.* * * On top of that, you're looking at less failures, a better operating temperature range, and more durability. ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Server-devel Digest, Vol 76, Issue 21
-BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE- Hash: SHA1 > From: David Farning We have just > received confirmation that compulab won't be releasing a SATA > connector with the utilite. ( http://utilite-computer.com/web/home > ) Instread they will offer a mSATA connection. This is a real disappointment to the Internet-in-a-Box project. I was really hoping the Utilite would be the perfect solution for our full dataset (which is too large for an SSD). - -braddock -BEGIN PGP SIGNATURE- Version: GnuPG v1.4.11 (GNU/Linux) Comment: Using GnuPG with Thunderbird - http://www.enigmail.net/ iQEcBAEBAgAGBQJSDu3rAAoJEHWLR/DQzlZufbIH/RJv2wnglYnMRd+F6uMHvF5A pG048IP4rEd/5+jjERksTVRwCth5ZTL5bNJfiBA/h6hxFdS1fER1LR8SrbW7tSqi o9/r+HEW8MEuNaRb3sqb9Ud81YaWkh9WXX8+bjK/pvGSuJUcVzazXpFPuvkePFHz HYSRo3Unh1ehoqnWicXg+iNiUmqXjQIl5DEv2qZE0jcTskxnhGjTGIzuEk6kj/XU Ed06TePXwlj0II5zsLWdBqvxmDP0dZgdgDBKLnjomwSOFTKIEqQb645qftb8aVlT qmM4yAzgjWDtSeNCBhElpohUJ1zDv0Ldrzrx6P1DSOzLFW5CiKhg/A4R+JD6Upw= =VwuD -END PGP SIGNATURE- ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Powering a hard drive?
Oops, forgot to actually cc Richard. Here's some more Google searching of SSD v/s HDD prices. Capacity HDD price SSD Price Price difference 64 GB $25 $50 $25 128 GB $33$100$67256 GB$40$200$160512 GB$55$430$375 If you can manage a server with a 128 GB drive, then SSD seems to be the way to go. At 256 GB, it's even between the two when you consider other factors like durability; perhaps HDD has a slight edge here. Anything bigger than that, it makes the most sense to buy an HDD. Best, Anish On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 5:35 PM, Anish Mangal wrote: > Hi, > > I have been trying to crunch some numbers and the results seem > interesting. I don't claim the calculations to be correct, so if someone > with more knowledge (than me or a quick google search) can reply, would be > very useful. > > The average difference between power consumption of an SSD and a HDD is > about 4W. [1][2] > > Now considering the environments we're gonna head into we're looking at > typically 1-3 days of power backup for the server (lets average out at 2). > > That means, the battery backup needed is: > 4 * 24 * 2 = 192 W-hr > > *That comes out to roughly $25-35 in battery costs* (again based on quick > google searches for battery costs). *If you want a longer life from > you're battery, you're looking at about $50-60 in battery costs.* > > Now if we're also giving solar backup, based on the calculator here > [3] we're going to need about a 25-30W solar panel (for just those 4 extra > watts). Again, google tells me that *such panels retail for about $65-80.* > * > * > *So, on average we'll save $100-$130 on TCO (total cost of ownership), if > we intend to provide an SSD as opposed to an HDD, considering the server > runs 24x7 and 2 days of backup is needed.* > * > * > On top of that, you're looking at less failures, a better operating > temperature range, and more durability. > * > * > Disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert in this area (hence am cc'ing > Richard Smith), but this is what some back of the envelope number crunching > tells me. > > [1] http://www.storagereview.com/ssd_vs_hdd > [2] > http://forum.notebookreview.com/solid-state-drives-ssds-flash-storage/645232-ssd-vs-hdd-power-usage.html > [3] http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/solar-calculator.html, > > > Best, > Anish > > > > > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 4:55 PM, James Cameron wrote: > >> On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:18:40PM -0500, David Farning wrote: >> > However the cost of a SSD is significantly higher than a normal >> > drive. >> >> What's the incremental cost of solar capture and storage for powering >> a hard drive compared to an SSD? >> >> -- >> James Cameron >> http://quozl.linux.org.au/ >> ___ >> Server-devel mailing list >> Server-devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel >> > > > > -- > Anish | an...@sugarlabs.org > -- Anish | an...@sugarlabs.org ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Powering a hard drive?
Thanks Anish, that was my gut feel as well; for a solar powered server, solid state storage ought to be cheaper than spinning rust. The argument changes once the power system has to do a lot more than power the server. The incremental cost is then hidden. -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Powering a hard drive?
Hi, I have been trying to crunch some numbers and the results seem interesting. I don't claim the calculations to be correct, so if someone with more knowledge (than me or a quick google search) can reply, would be very useful. The average difference between power consumption of an SSD and a HDD is about 4W. [1][2] Now considering the environments we're gonna head into we're looking at typically 1-3 days of power backup for the server (lets average out at 2). That means, the battery backup needed is: 4 * 24 * 2 = 192 W-hr *That comes out to roughly $25-35 in battery costs* (again based on quick google searches for battery costs). *If you want a longer life from you're battery, you're looking at about $50-60 in battery costs.* Now if we're also giving solar backup, based on the calculator here [3] we're going to need about a 25-30W solar panel (for just those 4 extra watts). Again, google tells me that *such panels retail for about $65-80.* * * *So, on average we'll save $100-$130 on TCO (total cost of ownership), if we intend to provide an SSD as opposed to an HDD, considering the server runs 24x7 and 2 days of backup is needed.* * * On top of that, you're looking at less failures, a better operating temperature range, and more durability. * * Disclaimer: I don't claim to be an expert in this area (hence am cc'ing Richard Smith), but this is what some back of the envelope number crunching tells me. [1] http://www.storagereview.com/ssd_vs_hdd [2] http://forum.notebookreview.com/solid-state-drives-ssds-flash-storage/645232-ssd-vs-hdd-power-usage.html [3] http://www.batterystuff.com/kb/tools/solar-calculator.html, Best, Anish On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 4:55 PM, James Cameron wrote: > On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:18:40PM -0500, David Farning wrote: > > However the cost of a SSD is significantly higher than a normal > > drive. > > What's the incremental cost of solar capture and storage for powering > a hard drive compared to an SSD? > > -- > James Cameron > http://quozl.linux.org.au/ > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > Server-devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel > -- Anish | an...@sugarlabs.org ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Powering a hard drive?
On Fri, Aug 16, 2013 at 12:18:40PM -0500, David Farning wrote: > However the cost of a SSD is significantly higher than a normal > drive. What's the incremental cost of solar capture and storage for powering a hard drive compared to an SSD? -- James Cameron http://quozl.linux.org.au/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
[Server-devel] Powering a hard drive?
We have just received confirmation that compulab won't be releasing a SATA connector with the utilite. ( http://utilite-computer.com/web/home ) Instread they will offer a mSATA connection. So far, they have not been willing to clarify if the change is due to heat, power, or marketing. As shipped the base utility will hit the all important sub $100 mark. However the cost of a SSD is significantly higher than a normal drive. Do any of the power experts have suggestions? Losing the 'all in one' form factor greatly reduces the value in my opinion -- David Farning Activity Central: http://www.activitycentral.com ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
