Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] Sugar Server project initiation announce
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 12:06 AM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: -Original Message- From: Martin Langhoff [mailto:martin.langh...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 11:46 PM To: David Farning Cc: Aleksey Lim; server-devel@lists.laptop.org; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org; olpc...@lists.laptop.org; dextr...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Dextrose] [Sugar-devel] Sugar Server project initiation announce On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:44 PM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: You are 100% correct in these criticisms and concerns about Activity Central. We are a new company working in a new market. Failures and mistakes are inevitable. If you have been hurt by those mistakes, I apologize and accept full responsibility for them. Hi David! Look -- thanks for being so frank and open. Past it the past, and I've made mistakes aplenty myself. What I was trying to say was: you seem to be doing the same thing again. Like now. I mean -- today. How 'bout taking a slightly different tack? You just posted last week about cookie licking, which if you think about it... that perhaps applies to those big Ubuntu announcements last year for example. Perhaps could apply to this server thing -- we don't know yet. As I said, I frankly hope I am wrong. Anyway -- of course there may be business reasons for your forking. Happens. It's just that on the working with the existing project, the score isn't looking too good. I mean -- Aleksey subscribed to the xs-devel list, and his first message there was the opener of this thread. Classic. Based on Aleksey's past history of making good technical decisions, producing good implementations based on his designs, and his ability to work effectively with the existing community, I believe that what he produces will be a net gain for the Sugar/olpc ecosystem. As such, AC has given him the freedom to spend the next 6 months working on the server project. The technical decisions of how Aleksey solves the problem are separate from the business decisions of where Activity Central allocates its developer resources david ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel Again, I like where this discussion is going, so it may be worthwhile to take some of this back to the drawing board. There is the issue of: 1) distro independence 2) content mgmt vs server admin separation 3) school vs library approach (curricular aka XS vs referential aka pathagar) Without building yet another school server, can we merge/improve upon what's already here? Incidentally, Nick Doiron has a post up on the Khan Academy videos being served offline (I've thought of the same situation, but with TED videos). http://mapadelsur.blogspot.com/2011/06/khan-academy-follow-up.html Neil Dsouza of http://teachaclass.org is in Indonesia (I think) setting up offline servers to serve Khan videos in an offline format. I hope to speak with him next week to see if we can collaborate/merge any of the efforts. Choice is good. Fragmentation, not so much. cheers, Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor, Information Systems Director, Campus Business Solutions San Francisco State University http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ http://cbs.sfsu.edu/ http://is.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] Sugar Server project initiation announce
Again, I like where this discussion is going, so it may be worthwhile to take some of this back to the drawing board. There is the issue of: 1) distro independence If you want distro independence you end up with a document of best practices on how to install a XS/Sugar server. That's not a server. If you think that its easy to produce a working product you are wrong. This isn't a single service such as a DB.This is a collection of services that interact with each other and have dependencies and other interactions. You can either end up with a single product running on a single distro, or you can have a document documenting each of the components and then map them to various distros. Its a lot of engineering time and resources to do both. One which I would doubt AC have the interest in doing and a single person working on it for 6 months certainly won't have the time to do! Peter ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] [Sugar-devel] [Dextrose] Sugar Server project initiation announce
On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 01:18:35AM -0700, Sameer Verma wrote: On Sat, Jun 11, 2011 at 12:06 AM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: -Original Message- From: Martin Langhoff [mailto:martin.langh...@gmail.com] Sent: Friday, June 10, 2011 11:46 PM To: David Farning Cc: Aleksey Lim; server-devel@lists.laptop.org; sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org; olpc...@lists.laptop.org; dextr...@lists.sugarlabs.org Subject: Re: [Dextrose] [Sugar-devel] Sugar Server project initiation announce On Fri, Jun 10, 2011 at 10:44 PM, David Farning dfarn...@activitycentral.com wrote: You are 100% correct in these criticisms and concerns about Activity Central. We are a new company working in a new market. Failures and mistakes are inevitable. If you have been hurt by those mistakes, I apologize and accept full responsibility for them. Hi David! Look -- thanks for being so frank and open. Past it the past, and I've made mistakes aplenty myself. What I was trying to say was: you seem to be doing the same thing again. Like now. I mean -- today. How 'bout taking a slightly different tack? You just posted last week about cookie licking, which if you think about it... that perhaps applies to those big Ubuntu announcements last year for example. Perhaps could apply to this server thing -- we don't know yet. As I said, I frankly hope I am wrong. Anyway -- of course there may be business reasons for your forking. Happens. It's just that on the working with the existing project, the score isn't looking too good. I mean -- Aleksey subscribed to the xs-devel list, and his first message there was the opener of this thread. Classic. Based on Aleksey's past history of making good technical decisions, producing good implementations based on his designs, and his ability to work effectively with the existing community, I believe that what he produces will be a net gain for the Sugar/olpc ecosystem. As such, AC has given him the freedom to spend the next 6 months working on the server project. The technical decisions of how Aleksey solves the problem are separate from the business decisions of where Activity Central allocates its developer resources david ___ Sugar-devel mailing list sugar-de...@lists.sugarlabs.org http://lists.sugarlabs.org/listinfo/sugar-devel Again, I like where this discussion is going, so it may be worthwhile to take some of this back to the drawing board. There is the issue of: 1) distro independence 2) content mgmt vs server admin separation 3) school vs library approach (curricular aka XS vs referential aka pathagar) Without building yet another school server, can we merge/improve upon what's already here? Incidentally, Nick Doiron has a post up on the Khan Academy videos being served offline (I've thought of the same situation, but with TED videos). http://mapadelsur.blogspot.com/2011/06/khan-academy-follow-up.html Neil Dsouza of http://teachaclass.org is in Indonesia (I think) setting up offline servers to serve Khan videos in an offline format. I hope to speak with him next week to see if we can collaborate/merge any of the efforts. I can't get rid of feeling that we are still talking about a bit different things: Thats the core difference between OLPC XS and Sugar Server ways, OLPC XS and Sugar Server and too different in two major cases: 1. Product vs. Project OLPC XS (how I got it and XS's clones from my pov) is a product from OLPC, ie, final product when you need to download in ISO, for example, and follow detailed instructions how to proper maintain it Sugar Server is a community, SL, project. Within this project happens (by all interesting people/deployments) development of core modules 2. OS vs. Tools OLPC XS (how I got it and XS's clones from my pov) is, due to its design, behaves as an OS: what sugar-server does on its own w/ humble deps[1] w/ only by one CLI tool in non-root manner (except initial install), XS does by having 3 projects/packages, bunch of shell/python scripts, running one process in root, creating local users (of course from root) (it is highly not welcome if are talking about one service I'm going to run on server, already configured and supported, to just serve XOs around). In other words XS assumes that it entirely control the OS. Sugar Server is being designed as one local sugar-server that serve only sugar specific features (no network setup, no iptabales setup, no Apache, no Moodle, no new local user, not root processes, etc) as a decent server does - on its own, you need only start it (event from sources directory); the second layer, which is independent to the
