Re: [Server-devel] Database on server
On Fri, Mar 21, 2008 at 4:23 AM, Marten Vijn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > I would add: > - scalablity > - portabily Of course yes ;-) > - school size (>200) i would like to > - multiple servers with mysql/pg > - separate database server Both do extremely well at what we consider the upper-bound for XS installations. cheers, martin -- [EMAIL PROTECTED] [EMAIL PROTECTED] -- School Server Architect - ask interesting questions - don't get distracted with shiny stuff - working code first - http://wiki.laptop.org/go/User:Martinlanghoff ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Database on server
On Thu, 2008-03-20 at 19:26 -0400, Martin Langhoff wrote: > On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:47 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > You are correct that postgres is in the build, but nothing > > currently requires it. The idmgr package is using sqlite instead. > > > > Martin can either make this call or lead further discussion. > > I have certainly been mulling on this -- I have experience with both, > and my intention is to define a simple, but effective set of criteria > and see which DB meets it best. The key webapps we care about support > both (I did the support of the Pg port for a while for Moodle), > support for Pg is growing and SQL syntax is converging. So support in > webapps we care about is no longer the monster it used to be. > > One of the key metrics I will take into account is behaviour in low > mem conditions -- and I plan on asking MySQL devs and Pg devs to give > us a bit of help configuring them. Off the cuff, I'd compare... > > - Stability / sanity > - Good performance & behaviour in memory-constrained, low-end HW scenarios > - Our core webapps/apps/libs support it > - Strong dev community > - multiple vendors contributing on one codebase > - one or more talented and respected leaders - can resolve conflicts > - growing dev activity (number of patches, number of authors) > - Random apps out there support it (long last in priority...) I would add: - scalablity - portabily - on small/embedded systems (class scale) running form cf i would run sqlite in memdrive and backup every n minutes to cf and/or remote. - school size (>200) i would like to - multiple servers with mysql/pg - separate database server - on city size (in Leiden all school fibers come together in one colo) - http servers/clusters - database servers (clusters) - realstorage couple T's to start with just 2 ct, Marten > > the strategy of giving the community a significant weight is what I > followed for OSVLE to pick an LMS. It picked moodle back then when it > was clunkier and had less features (at first glance) than the rest. > But the architecture made more sense, and the community was on fire - > I'm ready to make the same "mistake" again! ;-) > > cheers, > > > > martin > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > Server-devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel -- Marten Vijn http://martenvijn.nl http://wifisoft.org http://opencommunitycamp.org ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Database on server
On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 2:47 PM, John Watlington <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > You are correct that postgres is in the build, but nothing > currently requires it. The idmgr package is using sqlite instead. > > Martin can either make this call or lead further discussion. I have certainly been mulling on this -- I have experience with both, and my intention is to define a simple, but effective set of criteria and see which DB meets it best. The key webapps we care about support both (I did the support of the Pg port for a while for Moodle), support for Pg is growing and SQL syntax is converging. So support in webapps we care about is no longer the monster it used to be. One of the key metrics I will take into account is behaviour in low mem conditions -- and I plan on asking MySQL devs and Pg devs to give us a bit of help configuring them. Off the cuff, I'd compare... - Stability / sanity - Good performance & behaviour in memory-constrained, low-end HW scenarios - Our core webapps/apps/libs support it - Strong dev community - multiple vendors contributing on one codebase - one or more talented and respected leaders - can resolve conflicts - growing dev activity (number of patches, number of authors) - Random apps out there support it (long last in priority...) the strategy of giving the community a significant weight is what I followed for OSVLE to pick an LMS. It picked moodle back then when it was clunkier and had less features (at first glance) than the rest. But the architecture made more sense, and the community was on fire - I'm ready to make the same "mistake" again! ;-) cheers, martin ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Database on server
I hope not a religious war on my part. I am happy with both choices abstractly (and I am a big user of sqlite3 as well, which is excellent but not so much for multi-user update-heavy applications). My point (and this whole comment is certainly directed at Martin, who is the ongoing developer) is just that after installing many open-source projects that have database access, there seem to be a non-trivial number that don't support PostGres but do support MySQL, so it might be helpful to make that the pre-installed database. As to Sameer's point that anything can be installed after the fact: that's true with a reliable connection. Having just spent several weeks in connectivity hell, I can assure you that trying to do "yum install" over a line that has frequent glitches is miserable, so it would be kind to try to make "most common" decisions in the base install. (And drupal, btw is one of those packages that supports both databases.) ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Database on server
John Watlington wrote: > Smells like a religious war to me. > > You are correct that postgres is in the build, but nothing > currently requires it. The idmgr package is using sqlite instead. > > Martin can either make this call or lead further discussion. > > John > > On Mar 20, 2008, at 2:17 PM, Carol Lerche wrote: > > >> I notice that the pre-installed database for the xs build is >> PostGres. Now I have nothing against PostGres. It is a fine >> database, and was a "real" (ACID) database from the start, unlike >> MySQL. I certainly advocated that it be used in preference to >> MySQL for de novo projects at clients in the past. But from the >> standpoint of making a choice that enables the most other open >> source software to be installed and to run without difficulty, I >> believe MySQL would be a better choice today, especially since its >> former deficiencies have largely been rectified. In summary this >> is a recommendation based on a desire to lower the development >> costs of reusing software, not a theoretical determination of which >> database is "better". >> >> Any thoughts? >> >> Carol Lerche >> ___ >> Server-devel mailing list >> Server-devel@lists.laptop.org >> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel >> > > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > Server-devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel > I don't intend to hijack this thread, but the determination of software packages should really come from the "need" (demand) side of the equation. I strongly think that instead of picking favorites (we have a LOT in the pool to pick from:-)) we should establish the need first. Use case -> Need -> Applications -> Packages So, in Carol's case (hypothetical example): Carol's case -> Blogging -> Drupal -> Apache, MySQL, PHP After all, even if the DB of choice was MySQL, nothing's stopping me from installing PG on it! Also keep in mind that while there will be significant overlap across different use cases, but I doubt it if we can get away with a single XS build combination. Sameer -- Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D. Associate Professor of Information Systems San Francisco State University San Francisco CA 94132 USA http://verma.sfsu.edu/ http://opensource.sfsu.edu/ ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
Re: [Server-devel] Database on server
Smells like a religious war to me. You are correct that postgres is in the build, but nothing currently requires it. The idmgr package is using sqlite instead. Martin can either make this call or lead further discussion. John On Mar 20, 2008, at 2:17 PM, Carol Lerche wrote: > I notice that the pre-installed database for the xs build is > PostGres. Now I have nothing against PostGres. It is a fine > database, and was a "real" (ACID) database from the start, unlike > MySQL. I certainly advocated that it be used in preference to > MySQL for de novo projects at clients in the past. But from the > standpoint of making a choice that enables the most other open > source software to be installed and to run without difficulty, I > believe MySQL would be a better choice today, especially since its > former deficiencies have largely been rectified. In summary this > is a recommendation based on a desire to lower the development > costs of reusing software, not a theoretical determination of which > database is "better". > > Any thoughts? > > Carol Lerche > ___ > Server-devel mailing list > Server-devel@lists.laptop.org > http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
[Server-devel] Database on server
I notice that the pre-installed database for the xs build is PostGres. Now I have nothing against PostGres. It is a fine database, and was a "real" (ACID) database from the start, unlike MySQL. I certainly advocated that it be used in preference to MySQL for de novo projects at clients in the past. But from the standpoint of making a choice that enables the most other open source software to be installed and to run without difficulty, I believe MySQL would be a better choice today, especially since its former deficiencies have largely been rectified. In summary this is a recommendation based on a desire to lower the development costs of reusing software, not a theoretical determination of which database is "better". Any thoughts? Carol Lerche ___ Server-devel mailing list Server-devel@lists.laptop.org http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
