Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Sameer Verma]

Greg Smith (gregmsmi) wrote:
> Hi Sameer,
>
> I think you are on the right track in terms of laying out the use cases
> and relevant variables. A full matrix of options will be too complicated
> but we can list the main physical/HW variables and then put known
> deployments in each category.
>
> Something like:
> Server HW (RAM/Disk) - big, medium, little
> Bandwidth to Data Center -  big, medium little, none
> Bandwidth to Internet  - big, medium, little
> Power in school - enough for AP and 2 x servers, enough for one server
> max, not enough for any servers,
> Wireless access - Wireless AP, active attena, none
> Size of school - 10 - 50, 51 - 100, 100 - 200
>
> Could be more precise numerical values too.
>
> After that we don't need a cross product of all variables. We can just
> look at known constraints on SW and services based on that. 
>
> E.g. You could say, if the best HW you can get is 512MB RAM and you only
> have power for one box and you have medium BW to the data center you
> should move squid to the data center. Or a simple one like, if you have
> 200 kids in the school you need a wireless AP.
>
> I have deliverables for Uruguay web site building tool due this week so
> my OLPC "spare" time is up and I need to pass the buck for now :-)
>
> If you have a chance you could use the talk page at:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Server_Specification
> Or talk page at:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Server_Services
>   
[snipped]

Hi Greg,
This is what I was driving at. This week has been busy, but we have 
Spring break next week, so I'll spend some time on it. Three major 
constraints are power and connectivity and school size. Server specs, 
network topology etc. are  items that will support that constraint 
space. I'll post something on the talk page in a few days.

Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/

___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Martin Langhoff]

On Thu, Mar 20, 2008 at 10:51 AM, Greg Smith (gregmsmi)
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Thanks for the comments and direction.
>
>  I'm still working on options for the Uruguay requirement (BTW now
>  rewritten, verified with tech lead in Montevideo and posted in wiki at:
>  http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Requiremientos_Para_XO).

Read it. Sounds great! A lot of what they've been trying to do is
exactly what moodle does, so once moodle is on the XS, I think we will
be 99% there.

Also - I will be in Buenos Aires for ~3 weeks (30th March to 18th
April). Discussing with Fernando Da Rosa about perhaps catching the
ferry to Colonia.

>  If we get that traction how we do we make the solution broadly
>  available?

Making sure it makes it into the XS image, right now as an RPM package ;-)

>  If we focus on Moodle and Media Wiki do we work directly with those
>  projects or look for some maintainer/lead developer support from OLPC?

I am a core moodle dev, and I plan to do some work here see the K-12
forum in moodle.org - and get in touch with Gary Anderson - see his
posts in the k-12 forum where I posted about the XS.

But it won't happen immediately -- first a lot of OS work needs my attention.

>  On the drupal front, perhaps we can have a model where XS code can be
>  added like activities are added to XO. E.g. core activities plus
>  downloadable additions via well defined install.

RPM packages

>  The great thing about this project is that we get direct user feedback
>  from a real XO deployment! So Uruguayan technicians, teachers and
>  students are part of the design from the start.

I know - I find it addictive myself - ;-)

cheers,




martin
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Greg Smith (gregmsmi)]

Hi Martin et al,

Thanks for the comments and direction.

I'm still working on options for the Uruguay requirement (BTW now
rewritten, verified with tech lead in Montevideo and posted in wiki at:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Requiremientos_Para_XO). 

We want any new work to be available in all deployments. Unless the XS
base install works for teachers and students out of the box, we need to
go where the most development support is available. 

Looks like you suggest current Moodle and MediaWiki plus possible added
code (may be outside XS scope, e.g. client side or system level) unless
we get great traction with Drupal team. 

If we get that traction how we do we make the solution broadly
available?

If we focus on Moodle and Media Wiki do we work directly with those
projects or look for some maintainer/lead developer support from OLPC?

On the drupal front, perhaps we can have a model where XS code can be
added like activities are added to XO. E.g. core activities plus
downloadable additions via well defined install.

The great thing about this project is that we get direct user feedback
from a real XO deployment! So Uruguayan technicians, teachers and
students are part of the design from the start.

For now, we will try all options until we find a viable design and
developers interested in pursuing it. Any additional input on where to
focus efforts re: developer recruitment and target software is greatly
appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg S


I do think Moodle i very strong in all course or student-group content
and activity mgmt, and getting better all the time. It's patchy in the
"general content for everyone", where MediaWiki shines, and we will also
have MW there to host partial Wikipedia content.

There has to be a strong case for a 3rd system that overlaps so much
with those 2 -- each additional system is a significant burden, as we
will have to customise it quite a bit.

Having said that, I _like_ Drupal, and it can be used usefully, but we
are entering diminishing returns region (from a core OLPC team POV), so
if the Drupal community can help get this in shape, that would be great.
IOWs it won't be a priority for me.

cheers,

m 
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Martin Langhoff]

2008/3/19 Carol Lerche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I am trying to
> build facilities that have icons and limited text in the areas that they
> need to use, and that has the same look and feel, but with more text,
> obviously, for the "adult" sections of the website (which contains
> standards, lesson plans, forms, and an accessible version of the cataloging
> of the library.)

I think I understand where you are leading to. Have you got something
we can see? If it's a drupal (or anything else) fully
skinned/customised to meet some or part of your goals then fantastic,
but even image-only sketches will be good.

> I think there is a tendency for the adults
> volunteering and working for OLPC to get most excited about activities and
> applications that are most suited for older elementary and high school kids,
> and to forget that the target age group is 6-12.

What kind of activities are you thinking of for that age group?

cheers,



m
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Carol Lerche]

Martin and friends,

One problem with moodle is its lack of "skinning".  I have not found any
examples that are not text heavy and I can't find examples of use by actual
young children.  The elementary examples referenced are closed (moodle login
doesn't work and the site pointed to says "by invitation only".)

I want little kids to access a class website while in school, as a way to
upload their work, both to share with each other and with the teacher and
other adults at the school.  I am dealing with very young kids who are just
learning to read and write.  The school only has grades k-2 at present,
though it will grow one grade per year until it is a K-8.  I am trying to
build facilities that have icons and limited text in the areas that they
need to use, and that has the same look and feel, but with more text,
obviously, for the "adult" sections of the website (which contains
standards, lesson plans, forms, and an accessible version of the cataloging
of the library.)

The adult section is a no-brainer no matter what system is used.  I
definitely see the appeal of moodle for delivering e-courses.  But I think
content management also needs to have a flexible look and feel for kids.
Even though my deployment doesn't quite match the third world use cases, it
does in this regard.  I think there is a tendency for the adults
volunteering and working for OLPC to get most excited about activities and
applications that are most suited for older elementary and high school kids,
and to forget that the target age group is 6-12.  6, 7 and 8 year olds are
still reading simple text, and verbose interfaces don't work for them.  This
is also true for older kids who have literacy issues.  These kids need
doorways into learning that don't require them to already be fully literate.
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Stefan Reitz]

> Date: Wed, 19 Mar 2008 09:47:57 -0400
> From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]; [EMAIL PROTECTED]
> CC: server-devel@lists.laptop.org
> Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)
> 
> Hi Sameer,
> 
> I think you are on the right track in terms of laying out the use cases
> and relevant variables. A full matrix of options will be too complicated
> but we can list the main physical/HW variables and then put known
> deployments in each category.
> 
> Something like:
> Server HW (RAM/Disk) - big, medium, little
> Bandwidth to Data Center -  big, medium little, none
> Bandwidth to Internet  - big, medium, little
> Power in school - enough for AP and 2 x servers, enough for one server
> max, not enough for any servers,
> Wireless access - Wireless AP, active attena, none
> Size of school - 10 - 50, 51 - 100, 100 - 200

200 - 400, 400 - 600 , ... (I am thinking  server clusters - red hat cluster 
suite is offering some nice tools which I never got a chance to use / try - 
thinking 3 servers with fail-over and increased performance for clients (like 
two servers actually doing something...) would be a starting point)

Birmingham is looking at 49 schools with a total 14,000+ students. The pilot 
school has new infrastructure (like multiple lines of cat5 wiring to every 
classroom) and ~600 students. This may not resemble the first third world 
pilots, but once you start targeting the metropoles, I'd expect student numbers 
to exceed this by far. I imagine that the current pilots were chosen with a 
real chance of success in mind and not for largest possible immediate 
(numerical) impact (no blame).

I can only guess about infrastructure in large city's (e.g. Mexico City, Buenos 
Aires, Mumbai, you name it...) elementary schools, but remote peruvian / 
himalayan mountain schools (please don't think I am looking down on your 
enormous efforts) are just one side of the coin. I am not argueing against 
those remote location pilots, they will undoubtedly give very valuable insights 
on the primary needs of any deployment and thus help preparing for the "big use 
cases", but also please don't sacrifice large scale deployments for the quick / 
"easy" fix.




> 
> Could be more precise numerical values too.

( / larger)

> 
> After that we don't need a cross product of all variables. We can just
> look at known constraints on SW and services based on that. 
> 
> E.g. You could say, if the best HW you can get is 512MB RAM and you only
> have power for one box and you have medium BW to the data center you
> should move squid to the data center. Or a simple one like, if you have
> 200 kids in the school you need a wireless AP.
> 
> I have deliverables for Uruguay web site building tool due this week so
> my OLPC "spare" time is up and I need to pass the buck for now :-)
> 
> If you have a chance you could use the talk page at:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Server_Specification
> Or talk page at:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Server_Services
> 
> Carol,
> 
> I did not realize that you are a teacher using Xos to teach! That gives
> your comments special weight so please keep commenting from your real
> world perspective.
> 
> Thanks,
> 
> Greg S
> 
> 
> -Original Message-----
> From: Sameer Verma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sameer Verma
> Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 12:19 PM
> To: Carol Lerche
> Cc: Greg Smith (gregmsmi); server-devel@lists.laptop.org
> Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)
> 
> That's a great idea. A use case taxonomy for different environments,
> including the non-OLPC centric ones as Carol pointed out. I have to run
> off to a meeting...can someone start a wiki page for this? Starting at
> the use case as opposed to software packages makes a lot more sense to
> me. Use case establishes the specifics of the need, and that will then
> lead to the selection of packages, Moodle or otherwise.
> 
> Sameer
> > So in the school I will deploy in two weeks I am using a commercial 
> > access point, but the number of xos is small (4).  Fast access to the 
> > net is possible in general but must be heavily restricted for the 
> > kids.  I don't expect OLPC to tailor networking solutions to my 
> > situation (I'm calling it 4/20s laptops per child), but I do think my 
> > need for an easy to build local website  is transferrable to the 
> > general case.  Personally, I'd love a drupal expert to configure it as
> 
> > an rpm for the server, so that it could be cleanly and simply 
> > installed in the school server environment.
> >
> > On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> &g

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Greg Smith (gregmsmi)]

Hi Sameer,

I think you are on the right track in terms of laying out the use cases
and relevant variables. A full matrix of options will be too complicated
but we can list the main physical/HW variables and then put known
deployments in each category.

Something like:
Server HW (RAM/Disk) - big, medium, little
Bandwidth to Data Center -  big, medium little, none
Bandwidth to Internet  - big, medium, little
Power in school - enough for AP and 2 x servers, enough for one server
max, not enough for any servers,
Wireless access - Wireless AP, active attena, none
Size of school - 10 - 50, 51 - 100, 100 - 200

Could be more precise numerical values too.

After that we don't need a cross product of all variables. We can just
look at known constraints on SW and services based on that. 

E.g. You could say, if the best HW you can get is 512MB RAM and you only
have power for one box and you have medium BW to the data center you
should move squid to the data center. Or a simple one like, if you have
200 kids in the school you need a wireless AP.

I have deliverables for Uruguay web site building tool due this week so
my OLPC "spare" time is up and I need to pass the buck for now :-)

If you have a chance you could use the talk page at:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Server_Specification
Or talk page at:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/XS_Server_Services

Carol,

I did not realize that you are a teacher using Xos to teach! That gives
your comments special weight so please keep commenting from your real
world perspective.

Thanks,

Greg S


-Original Message-
From: Sameer Verma [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] On Behalf Of Sameer Verma
Sent: Monday, March 17, 2008 12:19 PM
To: Carol Lerche
Cc: Greg Smith (gregmsmi); server-devel@lists.laptop.org
Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

That's a great idea. A use case taxonomy for different environments,
including the non-OLPC centric ones as Carol pointed out. I have to run
off to a meeting...can someone start a wiki page for this? Starting at
the use case as opposed to software packages makes a lot more sense to
me. Use case establishes the specifics of the need, and that will then
lead to the selection of packages, Moodle or otherwise.

Sameer
> So in the school I will deploy in two weeks I am using a commercial 
> access point, but the number of xos is small (4).  Fast access to the 
> net is possible in general but must be heavily restricted for the 
> kids.  I don't expect OLPC to tailor networking solutions to my 
> situation (I'm calling it 4/20s laptops per child), but I do think my 
> need for an easy to build local website  is transferrable to the 
> general case.  Personally, I'd love a drupal expert to configure it as

> an rpm for the server, so that it could be cleanly and simply 
> installed in the school server environment.
>
> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> <mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]>> wrote:
>
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Martin Langhoff]

2008/3/17 Carol Lerche <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>:
> I have looked on the wiki and find no mention of how moodle and mediawiki
> are to be used on the school server.  Since my need is in providing an
> in-class "website" for young children, I find drupal much closer to
> providing what I think is needed than either moodle or mediawiki.  Perhaps
> my inspection of the moodle website has not adequately found the optional
> modules or customization that would allow what I need.  It appears far more
> suitable as a tool for older kids and teachers.  But a wiki is certainly not

Moodle has a lot of k-12 users, there's even a k-12 forum. Moodle is
in part a CMS, you can picture it as a CMS where all bits of content
(and interactivity - forums, etc) is marked as belonging to a course.
You can, of course, have many courses - each with its content and
activities.

> what I need.  My use cases map to a content management system such as Drupal
> much better.  Specifically, I want to have an album made by the kids where
> they can upload their photos from "record".

A gallery can be achieved using the "glossary" module or the
"database" module (but this requires a bit of configuration) if you
are keen on trying. But if Drupal is working for you, that's fine too.

> readers.  I have various documents aimed at teachers and administrators
> which could presumably also work in moodle, but could be made more
> attractive in a system like Drupal I belive.

Moodle can be made very cute ... at least I look it and find it
attractive, after 4 years of living with it ;-)

What are those documents? It sounds like you are doing very
interesting work -- could be related to what the k-12 crowd in
Moodle.org are doing - lots of discussion here
http://moodle.org/mod/forum/view.php?f=731 - no need to actually
register, use the "login as guest" button.

> Now, Martin may have a perfect counterexample to this (mis)understanding of
> mine, and if so, please point to it.  Otherwise, it seems like some use case
> gathering is needed before making a decision that moodle and mediawiki cover
> all bases.

I do think Moodle i very strong in all course or student-group content
and activity mgmt, and getting better all the time. It's patchy in the
"general content for everyone", where MediaWiki shines, and we will
also have MW there to host partial Wikipedia content.

There has to be a strong case for a 3rd system that overlaps so much
with those 2 -- each additional system is a significant burden, as we
will have to customise it quite a bit.

Having said that, I _like_ Drupal, and it can be used usefully, but we
are entering diminishing returns region (from a core OLPC team POV),
so if the Drupal community can help get this in shape, that would be
great. IOWs it won't be a priority for me.

cheers,



m
___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Sameer Verma]

Carol Lerche wrote:
> I have looked on the wiki and find no mention of how moodle and 
> mediawiki are to be used on the school server.  Since my need is in 
> providing an in-class "website" for young children, I find drupal much 
> closer to providing what I think is needed than either moodle or 
> mediawiki.  Perhaps my inspection of the moodle website has not 
> adequately found the optional modules or customization that would 
> allow what I need.  It appears far more suitable as a tool for older 
> kids and teachers.  But a wiki is certainly not what I need.  My use 
> cases map to a content management system such as Drupal much better.  
> Specifically, I want to have an album made by the kids where they can 
> upload their photos from "record".  I have separately provided a 
> library cataloging application and done a book drive to give my target 
> school 800 or so books, which I have cataloged and want to display on 
> their classroom website dynamically and with an interface tailored to 
> emerging readers.  I have various documents aimed at teachers and 
> administrators which could presumably also work in moodle, but could 
> be made more attractive in a system like Drupal I belive. 
>
> Now, Martin may have a perfect counterexample to this 
> (mis)understanding of mine, and if so, please point to it.  Otherwise, 
> it seems like some use case gathering is needed before making a 
> decision that moodle and mediawiki cover all bases.
>
> As to Sameer's taxonomy, it probably covers the OLPC-sponsored 
> territory, but to encompass small deployments not sponsored by OLPC, 
> one needs to consider cases like mine, where no access to live 
> antennae is available.  

That's a great idea. A use case taxonomy for different environments, 
including the non-OLPC centric ones as Carol pointed out. I have to run 
off to a meeting...can someone start a wiki page for this? Starting at 
the use case as opposed to software packages makes a lot more sense to 
me. Use case establishes the specifics of the need, and that will then 
lead to the selection of packages, Moodle or otherwise.

Sameer
> So in the school I will deploy in two weeks I am using a commercial 
> access point, but the number of xos is small (4).  Fast access to the 
> net is possible in general but must be heavily restricted for the 
> kids.  I don't expect OLPC to tailor networking solutions to my 
> situation (I'm calling it 4/20s laptops per child), but I do think my 
> need for an easy to build local website  is transferrable to the 
> general case.  Personally, I'd love a drupal expert to configure it as 
> an rpm for the server, so that it could be cleanly and simply 
> installed in the school server environment.
>
> On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED] 
> > wrote:
>
> Greg Smith (gregmsmi) wrote:
> > Hi Martin et al,
> >
> > Its great you will be on this full time, congratulations! Wad is
> a tough
> > act to follow but you have a super education background and
> technical
> > savvy in general.
> >
> > I could use some direction on overall methodology of development and
> > support for the XS.
> >
> > I can think of three models but you may have others in mind too:
> > A - An appliance type offering where the school systems buy an
> XS from
> > OLPC, boots it, does some basic configuration then they're done.
> >
> > B - Schools buy a PC, install OS, XS image and maybe some other
> approvedGoogle search
> > modules (e.g. LAMP) then run a set of well defined and supported
> > applications.
> >
> > C - Take the base XS image, add any applications they need and run a
> > more general purpose server.
> >
> >
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> I've been thinking along the same lines, but at a slightly more
> abstract
> level. If you were to take two constraints (there are many more,
> but its
> easier to start with two): power and backhaul, then you can look at
> cases that combine these to some degree.
> Google search
> For example:
>
> no grid + no backhaul = use case A
> unreliable grid + no backhaul = use case B
> reliable grid + limited backhaul = use case C
> reliable grid + good backhaul = use case D
>
> and so on.
>
> Then, there is another constraint, which is school size, so smaller
> schools may work with a single mesh, but larger ones may need APs. I
> haven't thought this through completely as yet, but I'm throwing
> it out
> there. If use cases can be defined first, based on these constraint
> combinations, then perhaps we can look at different server-side models
> such as small-footprint server on site (proxy) + larger server at colo
> (moodle+mediwiki, etc.), or all-in-one boxes on site
> (proxy+moodle+mediawiki+...), etc. that service one or more use cases.
>
> cheers,
> Sameer
>
> --

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Carol Lerche]

I have looked on the wiki and find no mention of how moodle and mediawiki
are to be used on the school server.  Since my need is in providing an
in-class "website" for young children, I find drupal much closer to
providing what I think is needed than either moodle or mediawiki.  Perhaps
my inspection of the moodle website has not adequately found the optional
modules or customization that would allow what I need.  It appears far more
suitable as a tool for older kids and teachers.  But a wiki is certainly not
what I need.  My use cases map to a content management system such as Drupal
much better.  Specifically, I want to have an album made by the kids where
they can upload their photos from "record".  I have separately provided a
library cataloging application and done a book drive to give my target
school 800 or so books, which I have cataloged and want to display on their
classroom website dynamically and with an interface tailored to emerging
readers.  I have various documents aimed at teachers and administrators
which could presumably also work in moodle, but could be made more
attractive in a system like Drupal I belive.

Now, Martin may have a perfect counterexample to this (mis)understanding of
mine, and if so, please point to it.  Otherwise, it seems like some use case
gathering is needed before making a decision that moodle and mediawiki cover
all bases.

As to Sameer's taxonomy, it probably covers the OLPC-sponsored territory,
but to encompass small deployments not sponsored by OLPC, one needs to
consider cases like mine, where no access to live antennae is available.  So
in the school I will deploy in two weeks I am using a commercial access
point, but the number of xos is small (4).  Fast access to the net is
possible in general but must be heavily restricted for the kids.  I don't
expect OLPC to tailor networking solutions to my situation (I'm calling it
4/20s laptops per child), but I do think my need for an easy to build local
website  is transferrable to the general case.  Personally, I'd love a
drupal expert to configure it as an rpm for the server, so that it could be
cleanly and simply installed in the school server environment.

On Mon, Mar 17, 2008 at 7:36 AM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> Greg Smith (gregmsmi) wrote:
> > Hi Martin et al,
> >
> > Its great you will be on this full time, congratulations! Wad is a tough
> > act to follow but you have a super education background and technical
> > savvy in general.
> >
> > I could use some direction on overall methodology of development and
> > support for the XS.
> >
> > I can think of three models but you may have others in mind too:
> > A - An appliance type offering where the school systems buy an XS from
> > OLPC, boots it, does some basic configuration then they're done.
> >
> > B - Schools buy a PC, install OS, XS image and maybe some other approved
> > modules (e.g. LAMP) then run a set of well defined and supported
> > applications.
> >
> > C - Take the base XS image, add any applications they need and run a
> > more general purpose server.
> >
> >
>
> Hi Greg,
>
> I've been thinking along the same lines, but at a slightly more abstract
> level. If you were to take two constraints (there are many more, but its
> easier to start with two): power and backhaul, then you can look at
> cases that combine these to some degree.
>
> For example:
>
> no grid + no backhaul = use case A
> unreliable grid + no backhaul = use case B
> reliable grid + limited backhaul = use case C
> reliable grid + good backhaul = use case D
>
> and so on.
>
> Then, there is another constraint, which is school size, so smaller
> schools may work with a single mesh, but larger ones may need APs. I
> haven't thought this through completely as yet, but I'm throwing it out
> there. If use cases can be defined first, based on these constraint
> combinations, then perhaps we can look at different server-side models
> such as small-footprint server on site (proxy) + larger server at colo
> (moodle+mediwiki, etc.), or all-in-one boxes on site
> (proxy+moodle+mediawiki+...), etc. that service one or more use cases.
>
> cheers,
> Sameer
>
> --
> Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
> Associate Professor of Information Systems
> San Francisco State University
> San Francisco CA 94132 USA
> http://verma.sfsu.edu/
> http://opensource.sfsu.edu/
>
>
> > In all cases, what kind of support should deployments expect from OLPC
> > and the list in general? Which model should we design to?
> >
> > The current question may help clarify why I'm asking:
> >
> > - Uruguay wants to the kids and teachers to have tools for building web
> > sites. The current thinking on what they need is posted here:
> > http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Learning_activities/Journalism
> >
> > Should they look to the XS for the full solution (Moodle/MediaWiki may
> > solve their challenge...) or plan to install XS image then add some code
> > to it or plan to use XS and then add completely different servers

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Sameer Verma]

Greg Smith (gregmsmi) wrote:
> Hi Martin et al,
>
> Its great you will be on this full time, congratulations! Wad is a tough
> act to follow but you have a super education background and technical
> savvy in general.
>
> I could use some direction on overall methodology of development and
> support for the XS.
>
> I can think of three models but you may have others in mind too:
> A - An appliance type offering where the school systems buy an XS from
> OLPC, boots it, does some basic configuration then they're done.
>
> B - Schools buy a PC, install OS, XS image and maybe some other approved
> modules (e.g. LAMP) then run a set of well defined and supported
> applications.
>
> C - Take the base XS image, add any applications they need and run a
> more general purpose server.
>
>   

Hi Greg,

I've been thinking along the same lines, but at a slightly more abstract 
level. If you were to take two constraints (there are many more, but its 
easier to start with two): power and backhaul, then you can look at 
cases that combine these to some degree.

For example:

no grid + no backhaul = use case A
unreliable grid + no backhaul = use case B
reliable grid + limited backhaul = use case C
reliable grid + good backhaul = use case D

and so on.

Then, there is another constraint, which is school size, so smaller 
schools may work with a single mesh, but larger ones may need APs. I 
haven't thought this through completely as yet, but I'm throwing it out 
there. If use cases can be defined first, based on these constraint 
combinations, then perhaps we can look at different server-side models 
such as small-footprint server on site (proxy) + larger server at colo 
(moodle+mediwiki, etc.), or all-in-one boxes on site 
(proxy+moodle+mediawiki+...), etc. that service one or more use cases.

cheers,
Sameer

-- 
Dr. Sameer Verma, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Information Systems
San Francisco State University
San Francisco CA 94132 USA
http://verma.sfsu.edu/
http://opensource.sfsu.edu/


> In all cases, what kind of support should deployments expect from OLPC
> and the list in general? Which model should we design to?
>
> The current question may help clarify why I'm asking:
>
> - Uruguay wants to the kids and teachers to have tools for building web
> sites. The current thinking on what they need is posted here:
> http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Learning_activities/Journalism 
>
> Should they look to the XS for the full solution (Moodle/MediaWiki may
> solve their challenge...) or plan to install XS image then add some code
> to it or plan to use XS and then add completely different servers
> somewhere else in the network?
>
> Another option is to not rely on the XS and do web site building on the
> XO (e.g. browse directly out of the file system with no web server
> needed) then post/copy the final version to Internet hosted sites.
>
> Any tips on short term or long term strategy re: XS are appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
>
> Greg S
>
> --
>
> Message: 3
> Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:52:25 +1300
> From: "Martin Langhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC?
> To: "Sameer Verma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Cc: server-devel 
> Message-ID:
>   <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1
>
> On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>   
>>  Moodle has blog functionality in the core install. It used to be
>> 
> called
>   
>>  Journal way back, but its now replaced by blogs. I've used the
>> 
> "Journal"
>   
>>  feature in my classes before, and it serves the blogging purpose
>> 
> well.
>   
>>  Why have yet another CMS even if the stack is the same (LAMP)?
>> 
>
> that will be the main question. We have limited resources
> (development-wise, and on the XS) and Moodle and Mediawiki will be on
> the XS, and heavily customised to fit well in the workflow. Both have
> strong content-management aspects. I am open to having a CMS there as
> well, but it is hard to provide a clear added value with it.
>
> Once the Moodle/Mediawiki combo is a bit more ship-shape, I would
> invite Drupal/Mambo developers to have a look at what is in place, and
> figure out if it is worth their effort to have a CMS install in there.
> It won't be just a simple packaging issue -- UI changes,
> preconfigured/pre-seeded databases, auth integration, etc.
>
> cheers,
>
>
>
> martin
>
> ___
> Server-devel mailing list
> Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
> http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel
>   

___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel

Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC? (Martin Langhoff)

[Greg Smith (gregmsmi)]

Hi Martin et al,

Its great you will be on this full time, congratulations! Wad is a tough
act to follow but you have a super education background and technical
savvy in general.

I could use some direction on overall methodology of development and
support for the XS.

I can think of three models but you may have others in mind too:
A - An appliance type offering where the school systems buy an XS from
OLPC, boots it, does some basic configuration then they're done.

B - Schools buy a PC, install OS, XS image and maybe some other approved
modules (e.g. LAMP) then run a set of well defined and supported
applications.

C - Take the base XS image, add any applications they need and run a
more general purpose server.

In all cases, what kind of support should deployments expect from OLPC
and the list in general? Which model should we design to?

The current question may help clarify why I'm asking:

- Uruguay wants to the kids and teachers to have tools for building web
sites. The current thinking on what they need is posted here:
http://wiki.laptop.org/go/Talk:Learning_activities/Journalism 

Should they look to the XS for the full solution (Moodle/MediaWiki may
solve their challenge...) or plan to install XS image then add some code
to it or plan to use XS and then add completely different servers
somewhere else in the network?

Another option is to not rely on the XS and do web site building on the
XO (e.g. browse directly out of the file system with no web server
needed) then post/copy the final version to Internet hosted sites.

Any tips on short term or long term strategy re: XS are appreciated.

Thanks,

Greg S

--

Message: 3
Date: Fri, 14 Mar 2008 08:52:25 +1300
From: "Martin Langhoff" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: [Server-devel] Drupal on OLPC?
To: "Sameer Verma" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Cc: server-devel 
Message-ID:
<[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1

On Fri, Mar 14, 2008 at 5:57 AM, Sameer Verma <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>  Moodle has blog functionality in the core install. It used to be
called
>  Journal way back, but its now replaced by blogs. I've used the
"Journal"
>  feature in my classes before, and it serves the blogging purpose
well.
>
>  Why have yet another CMS even if the stack is the same (LAMP)?

that will be the main question. We have limited resources
(development-wise, and on the XS) and Moodle and Mediawiki will be on
the XS, and heavily customised to fit well in the workflow. Both have
strong content-management aspects. I am open to having a CMS there as
well, but it is hard to provide a clear added value with it.

Once the Moodle/Mediawiki combo is a bit more ship-shape, I would
invite Drupal/Mambo developers to have a look at what is in place, and
figure out if it is worth their effort to have a CMS install in there.
It won't be just a simple packaging issue -- UI changes,
preconfigured/pre-seeded databases, auth integration, etc.

cheers,



martin

___
Server-devel mailing list
Server-devel@lists.laptop.org
http://lists.laptop.org/listinfo/server-devel